Newcastle Falcons - We're back!! Championship winners

First topic message reminder :

Manager: Dean Richards
Head Coach: Peter Russell

Current Squad:

Forwards
Props:
Grant Shiels
Oliver Tomasczyk
Keiron Brookes
Scott Wilson

Hookers:
Matt Thompson
Rob Vickers
Scott Lawson

Second Rows:
Carlo Del Fava
Scott MacLeod
Sean Tomes
Frasier McKensie

Back Row
Ally Hogg
Will Welch
Richard Mayhew
Andy Saul
Mark Wilson
Chris York

Backs
SH's
Rory Lawson
Chris Pilgrim
Warren Fury
Mike Blair

Fh's
Joel Hodgson
Waisea Luveniyali
Rory Clegg
Phil Godman

Centres
Jamie Helleur
James Fitzpatrick
Tane Tu'ipulotu
Andrew Higgins
Alex Crocket
Michael Tait
Adam Powell
Danny Barnes - In from Munster

Wing:
Ryan Shortland
Andy Higgins
Suka Hufanga
Noah Cato

FB's:
Tom Catterick
Alex Tait

Cumbrian wrote: Three strong Northern teams is the way forward to my mind.

Amen to that. It's something we've collectively never really achieved and is long overdue. It's crazy when you think of the talent that's gone through all our hands over the years, especially Falcons and us. Sale have seemed to me to be importer's of talent rather than creators of it but I am probably misguided about that.

I think Sale have produced some good players over the years as well as some good old ones now. Might be wrong but Schofield, Foden, Hodgson etc started up there as well as introducing Robinson into union.

There's plenty of talent in the NW, it's just getting them playing union instead of league.

Dont forget Gaskell Sarge...

He's certainly in the "not fufilled his potential" box

Yes, thought I might be wrong. Bringing Jason Robinson into Union is almost enough on it's own.

Yeah Sale have got a very good youth program. The Jets (yeah I know) seem to do well in the A league. Some good young members of the squad; Ross Harrison (Prop), Tommy Taylor (Hooker), Henry Thomas (Prop), Billy Emerson (Openside Flanker), Mark Jennings (Centre), Will Addison (centre/ Wing), Tom Brady (Wing).

Looks like Shortland and Helleur have signed extensions...

And the rumour of Dom Barrow from Leeds seems to be getting more accurate.

Our second rows would look useful then...

Del Fava
McLeod
McKensie
Barrow
Tomes

Some big powerful guys and McLeods athleticism.

Do we need cover for him though?

We certainly need another leader, we are very predictable in the lineout. It either goes to McL or we vary it and go for McL.

If Dom does go to you guys I hope he gets plenty of game time, would hate to see him sidelined by more experienced players. He's a big guy but he's no slouch around the park. You mention McLeods athleticism but I expect Dom to be up there with him. Nothing official this end yet but that's not surprising. I would expect Carnegie to be doing anything they can to persuade him to stay.

Well to be honest Aitch, McLeod is 34 now...whilst still very fit i would see Dom getting a good amount of gametime. And McLeod would be a good experienced ex international guy to work with in training.

If he was signed, our second rows would be looking very interesting...

Yeh, they would. You can't help but feel that if someone of his potential has to go you want it to work for them. Their success reflects back on us. When Cal Clark disgraced himself it felt almost personal despite him being no longer a Carnegie player. Seeing Luther Burell establish himself over last season despite a shaky start feels good and so on. It's the next best thing to them still being with you.

The thing is i really trust this management...they all have proven success over long durations in different environments. Its not like the Mickey Mousers we've had over the last number of years who wouldnt know they're a$$ from their elbow.

I really believe we will become a powerful team over the next few years under these guys...and its 20 years since thats been said.

It is a great club aswell, in a great part of the world and we already have a history of signing top players, and brining through players.

Was Barrow starting regularly for you aitchw?

Yes, along with Jake Rowan they've been real motivators though Jake tends to attract a bit more attention because he's been team captain and a bit further on development wise.

I share Geordie's opinion of the new management up there and as long as he gets game time I trust them to bring the best out of him. Newcastle's has always been my '2nd' team in the AP but the years of wasted opportunity made it hard to want to support them. Next year will be different and I'll be willing them on big style. If we can't be there Falcons will do the job for me.

Flanker Andy Saull admits he signed for Newcastle to stop his career stagnating in Saracens’ regimented environment.

Long seen as the nearest thing England have to a classic openside in the mould of a David Pocock, Saull’s progress has been curbed by a combination of injuries and the rise of Will Fraser, which have restricted him to four starts in the Premiership this season.

Yet there was also a feeling that Saull’s style no longer fitted the Premiership leaders’ template and the 24-year-old told The Rugby Paper that it will be a relief to be given the freedom to express himself.

He said: “Saracens play in an incredibly structured way, whereas I like to play a bit more heads-up rugby and take a few chances, which is a big no-no for Saracens.

“Saracens’ game-plan is pretty much flawless, but it is very regimented. For a team it is unbelievably effective.

“It makes them incredibly difficult to beat but for the individuals there are certain parts of the game you have to sacrifice and are unable to shine.

“The fundamentals are set in stone. This is how it is done and this how you do it. They have got game-winners there and for me it would be nice to have a freer role.

“Newcastle told me they want their opensides to be more instinctive and play what they see, which is what I wanted to hear.

“I want to get back to my glory days and showcasing the passing and offloading aspects of my game.”

The other big attraction of joining the Falcons was the opportunity to rekindle his relationship with forwards coach John Wells, who mentored him through the England age-group system.

And Wells has no doubt that Newcastle can help unlock a potential that could make him England’s premier No.7.

“There is a big question mark about Chris Robshaw, who I think is a wonderful player but is not a seven at the highest level, which has been shown by the Lions selection this week,” Wells, the former England forwards coach, said.

“When you look elsewhere, Steffon Armitage has his supporters but he took himself out of the equation moving to France.

“Then you look at the next crop and Andy is not just as good as anybody but better than anybody on his day.

“Sometimes you can have too many quality players in one position and I think that was the case at Saracens, where Andy just could not get back into the frame once he was injured.”

With captain Will Welch occupying the No.7 berth at present, Saull knows there will be no guarantee of a first-team berth at Kingston Park.

However, Saull is confident that once he gets his chance, he will not let go of it.

He said: “No coach can guarantee game-time but you need to back yourself. I just want a chance to rediscover my form.

“If I get game-time I am confident I can show what I can do. The two times I got a run of ten games together with Saracens I was being talked about for England.

“If I get that game-time I’ll get my confidence back to show what I can do. I want to get back to the point where I was keeping Tom Wood at blindside for the England Saxons when Stuart Lancaster was in charge. He knows as well as anyone what I can do if I’m called upon.

“I’ve played 120 games by the age of 24 – at that age Ernst Joubert was not playing professionally and Mourtiz Botha was cleaning carpets and look at what they’ve gone on to achieve.

“It’s not like I’m at the end of the road, I’ve got, hopefully, another ten years in me and I’ve already got that start behind me.

“I’m a third of the way through what I want to achieve and I just needed a fresh challenge.”

Driver wrote:Flanker Andy Saull admits he signed for Newcastle to stop his career stagnating in Saracens’ regimented environment.

Long seen as the nearest thing England have to a classic openside in the mould of a David Pocock, Saull’s progress has been curbed by a combination of injuries and the rise of Will Fraser, which have restricted him to four starts in the Premiership this season.

Yet there was also a feeling that Saull’s style no longer fitted the Premiership leaders’ template and the 24-year-old told The Rugby Paper that it will be a relief to be given the freedom to express himself.

He said: “Saracens play in an incredibly structured way, whereas I like to play a bit more heads-up rugby and take a few chances, which is a big no-no for Saracens.

“Saracens’ game-plan is pretty much flawless, but it is very regimented. For a team it is unbelievably effective.

“It makes them incredibly difficult to beat but for the individuals there are certain parts of the game you have to sacrifice and are unable to shine.

“The fundamentals are set in stone. This is how it is done and this how you do it. They have got game-winners there and for me it would be nice to have a freer role.

“Newcastle told me they want their opensides to be more instinctive and play what they see, which is what I wanted to hear.

“I want to get back to my glory days and showcasing the passing and offloading aspects of my game.”

The other big attraction of joining the Falcons was the opportunity to rekindle his relationship with forwards coach John Wells, who mentored him through the England age-group system.

And Wells has no doubt that Newcastle can help unlock a potential that could make him England’s premier No.7.

“There is a big question mark about Chris Robshaw, who I think is a wonderful player but is not a seven at the highest level, which has been shown by the Lions selection this week,” Wells, the former England forwards coach, said.

“When you look elsewhere, Steffon Armitage has his supporters but he took himself out of the equation moving to France.

“Then you look at the next crop and Andy is not just as good as anybody but better than anybody on his day.

“Sometimes you can have too many quality players in one position and I think that was the case at Saracens, where Andy just could not get back into the frame once he was injured.”

With captain Will Welch occupying the No.7 berth at present, Saull knows there will be no guarantee of a first-team berth at Kingston Park.

However, Saull is confident that once he gets his chance, he will not let go of it.

He said: “No coach can guarantee game-time but you need to back yourself. I just want a chance to rediscover my form.

“If I get game-time I am confident I can show what I can do. The two times I got a run of ten games together with Saracens I was being talked about for England.

“If I get that game-time I’ll get my confidence back to show what I can do. I want to get back to the point where I was keeping Tom Wood at blindside for the England Saxons when Stuart Lancaster was in charge. He knows as well as anyone what I can do if I’m called upon.

“I’ve played 120 games by the age of 24 – at that age Ernst Joubert was not playing professionally and Mourtiz Botha was cleaning carpets and look at what they’ve gone on to achieve.

“It’s not like I’m at the end of the road, I’ve got, hopefully, another ten years in me and I’ve already got that start behind me.

“I’m a third of the way through what I want to achieve and I just needed a fresh challenge.”

I probably rush to say this about everybody, but for me, Saull just looks horribly underpowered. When i've seen him he's been physically shown up. It's fine getting to the ball quickly, but if you're then brushed off it, what's the point. I think Welch is a far better player and prospect.

Well, he's made an impassioned plea to be allowed to play his own game and now he has to live up to it. We've generally complained about 'playing rigidly to a plan' with various sides incl. the national side in the past and this suggests Deano is looking for something else. Good luck to him and Falcons overall.

I read this a while ago and thought fair enough give the lad a chance. But he has Will Welch to get past aswell.

It can only bode well for us though having two quality 7's.

The other thing it got me thinking was that if this Sarries regiment is as bad as he says it is...(it could be sour grapes from Saull) then how much is this stifling Owen Farrell aswell...

Guess Dom is on his way to you.

From the Carnegie website:

"Dominic Barrow has rejected a new contract and will leave the club.....We were keen to retain Dominic and offered him a new contract but unfortunately he has decided to move elsewhere and we wish him the best of luck for his future."

You lucky so and sos.

Great signing for.us...if it is too us....but I'm genuinely sorry for Leeds as I hope they dont get ripped apart...I want them up next season...looked seriously good last part of the season

If we have signed him our engine room looks great.

Thanks aitchw, we'll look after him

Hope your rumours are sound, Falcons makes a lot of sense as a move more so than the rest of the AP. Get next season right and the young players you have could be there a long time. Will watch for confirmation.

Looking more and more that Dom Barrow is signed.
What a crackin signing...but its a shame its Leeds who have to suffer.

They need to make sure they hold on to Jacob Rowan etc now...

Are you happy with the Second Row options now:

MacLeod
Del Fava
Fraser McKensie
Dom Barrow
Tomes

Reckon it might be after the JWC that Dom's move is announced.

We'll be OK, players move, it's what they do, we'll just put the work in on the next one coming through. Next year's Championship is going to be tough all round with Bristol and Welsh being v. serious about seeking promotion.

Anyways, I'm glad he's going to you guys because a) you'll use him and b) you'll bring him on.

That's looking like a very useful set of options for 2nd row.

The RFU website has Barrow down as 6'8' and almost 19 stone?! I thought he looked a fair bit smaller when I saw him, more of Parling type physique. Hopefully he'll turn into a similar player, but if he can add some grunt as well I'll be a happy man.

I take the RFU's stats with a pinch of salt,  if I remember rightly they said Charlie Matthews of Quins was nearly 20 stone,  which he patently wasn't.  Better to look at the club websites IMO.  Leeds' site says he is 6ft 7in and 17st 11lb, mind you even that looks a little exaggerated to me. Aitchw might be able to put me right on this,  but I don't think he is a grunt lock,  more an athletic lineout jumper.

I see we have signed 21 yo Argentinian prop Nahuel Lobo from Montpellier...

Anyone know much about him?

Oh and by all accounts Scottish hooker Scott Lawson had an absolute blinder against the Boks, mobile, physical as anything etc.... Maybe ive done him a little discredit. Maybe he could be what we need...

Cumbrian, yes, he's definitely in the athletic style of 2nd rows right now but I don't think that's all he has to offer. There's plenty of power there and as he develops physically I expect a good balance between the two will be achieved. I do prefer mobile 2nd rows who can add to the carnage around open play and rucks. He's young and keen so almost bound to give away penalties but that will come under control as he matures and is coached properly.

He really does have the potential for International honours at a senior level and Deano will get him there I reckon.

I'd normally be pretty happy with an Arg prop but we destroyed them on tour.

Montpellier have a fantatsic scrum so hopefully he'll be handy.

Lawson was great GF, as was Swinson.

Lobo looks some unit and only 21, 2 caps for Arg

He's a LH...so thats him and Shiels...

Funny Lobo bounced straight into the Falcons, he's been in France with Pelly for less than 6 months. Only saw him once against Bordeaux and his brick latrine impersonation is spot on.

You should be proud of Swinson Geordie - like Jim Hamilton, but with brains and the ability to play for 80 minutes. Scotland's lock combo for the next 5 years should be Gray and Swinson. The Boks didn't really know what to do with him and for all of the hype, Eztebeth came off worst in a lot of their collisions.

Well if he has the physical requirements hopefully Deano and John Wells can mould him into a top class prop.

But young Shiels has impressed me alot recently....cracking young player.

It's Shiels shirt to lose, he's been outstanding of late

I agree ....Shiels to lose at the moment...cracking player now...and potential to be seriously good.

Infact after hearing about Lawsons encouraging performance for Scotland, Tomas and Scotty Wilson fighting for that 3 spot...we could have a very strong aggressive front row next season...

I see neither Barrow nor Lobo are mentioned or confirmed yet?

GeordieFalcon wrote:I agree ....Shiels to lose at the moment...cracking player now...and potential to be seriously good.

Infact after hearing about Lawsons encouraging performance for Scotland, Tomas and Scotty Wilson fighting for that 3 spot...we could have a very strong aggressive front row next season...

Lawson surprised most Scotland fans against the Boks - not often you win scrum penalities against their front row. We won a number of them and it was clear his scrummaging was a major reason. It was commented on the Scottish threads that it was a shame the injuries were at hooker instead of loosehead, because we could just have called up Shiells for his first cap.

I dont think itll be long before Shiels is in the Scottish squad on a permanent basis...but he's got some sereious competition to get ahead of Grant at the moment i think..

Only bodes well for Scotland though...

You been watching the U20's GF? Barrow & Wilson have been outstanding

Scotty Wilson is going to be absolutely superb mate...i have every faith in that.

Barrow also has been very impressive. I hope we get his signature over others. Surely he can see the benefits of coming to us with this coaching team and the likely hood he will get games...as opposed to spelks...

I have to say, I don't think Wilson had the best of games last night. He seemed to be under quite a lot of pressure at the scrum (although that may be down to the ref's interpretations more than anything). The lineout aside (not his fault) I thought Barrow played quite well, he was a willing carrier and showed some very good defence.

Is this thread in danger of being archived? We may need to open a new one fairly soon.

Cumbrian wrote:I have to say, I don't think Wilson had the best of games last night.  He seemed to be under quite a lot of pressure at the scrum (although that may be down to the ref's interpretations more than anything).  The lineout aside (not his fault) I thought Barrow played quite well, he was a willing carrier and showed some very good defence.

Is this thread in danger of being archived?   We may need to open a new one fairly soon.

Excellent, can we (Scots) have Wilson back then? Thank you

Ill start a new one Mara

You guys see more Falcons games than me, but I don't see the hype over Wilson. To me he looks overweight, immobile and unfit and he doesn;t punch his weight when carrying. I saw a video of him training a few years back and he also seems to have gone backwards on conditioning (?!)

What am I missing?

I'm talking S Wilson of course!

His scrummaging has been superb Hood. Lads only 19/20 but can't recall him taking a backwards step in the set piece all season.

Carrying is secondary for a TH imo.

I was stood next to him after the Bedford game and I can tell you he's absolutely huge, doesn't look to be carrying too much fat either tbh

Fair enough Pooly, might just have been the pace of the game and the other lads looking more trim, he just looked way off the pace and actually a little flakey in the scrum. That said it looked like the BBs had shored up their scrum while letting everything else going to pot.

Yea it wasn't his best game in the scrum but I still thought he got on top overall.

Lads got a really big future imo

Playing tighthead is an experience thing. Dan Cole has a pretty dodgey scrummager when he came into the Tigers first team. Over time he built himself into the beast he is today. Wilson will flourish with more game time and maybe a little loan back to the Championship next season. At under 20 level most props are a touch hit and miss.