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Andy Farrell, Saracens, Ashton, the next two weeks and England's future.

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Post by Portnoy Fri 07 Sep 2012, 5:47 pm

OK. I'm a long-term adversary of AF. I think he stinks. So that's laid out clearly before I begin.

But last week in a dire game against the Oirish, Ashton scored twice by playing his natural game (something he was never allowed to under Farrell).
Saracens, freed from AF's negativity, put 40 points on the board which is nearly as much a surprise as them thrashing Tigers' skeleton XV this time last year at WR.

Sarries, have two definitive games in the next two weeks : Sale (like LI) pumped up with pre-Jeff hype this week-end away and Tigers at Wembley the week after. What will not be so interesting to me will be not the results, but the manner of their (Sarries') style and game plan and execution.

That will put at pointer to AF's ability to coach and onward to SL's credibility to enjoin himself with the correct coaching staff.

Truly, only time, the AIs and the 6Ns will tell if SL is any good. But I contend that Sarries and Ashton in the next two Sarries games will be a bell weather to assess AF as a coach in absentia and SL's ability to pick a good coaching team.

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Post by Geordie Fri 07 Sep 2012, 7:05 pm

I dont think your the only one who has reservations about the England coaching team.

Many of us will be watching the Ai's with interest.
At the moment ive seen the front row going aswell as ever...and a simply huge improvement in the breakdown...

So +1 Mr Rowntree....

But all else...i think most fans need convincing on the rest...

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Post by DaveM Fri 07 Sep 2012, 7:31 pm

It looks to me that Sarries are trying to play a bit more. If so then good for them.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 07 Sep 2012, 8:45 pm

As Mike Catt has been announced as full time attack coach does this mean Farrell is defense coach now?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19524458

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Post by DaveM Fri 07 Sep 2012, 11:13 pm

Unfortunately not. Catt is the 'attacking skills' coach, and Farrell the backs coach. This suggests to me that Farrell will have responsibility for the attack - which isn't good news as far as I'm concerned.

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Post by maestegmafia Sat 08 Sep 2012, 3:43 am

Why Di England never pick a coach with form?

Last and maybe Only i have ever seen for england was jack Rowell.

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Post by DaveM Sat 08 Sep 2012, 9:17 am

On the other hand England do have players like Farrell and Tuilagi with obvious attributes but with clear weaknesses in their games. If Catt can work intensively on those weaknesses that could be a positive thing.

But if our attacking game plan comes from Farrell then you have to worry, as I've never sen a Farrell coached side with any attacking fluency.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 08 Sep 2012, 9:53 am

maestegmafia wrote:Why Di England never pick a coach with form?

Last and maybe Only i have ever seen for england was jack Rowell.

Depends what you mean by form:

Lancaster is a very experienced coach. Rowntree is now, and in demand for the Lions
John Wells, Mike Ford and Brian Smith all had club success.
Brian Ashton had success at club and international level.
Andy Robinson had club success with Bath.
SCW was a bit of a punt - had experience in England and Aus though, and did pretty well
John Mitchell was pretty experienced

all since Jack Rowell who was more a manager, relying on talent such as Hudson (great coach and very good a resetting dislocations) and Ashton at Bath.

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Post by Barney McGrew did it Sat 08 Sep 2012, 10:51 am

Given that, after Martin 'learning on the job' Jonno, most people wanted a coaching team with proven test credentials I'm afraid Lancaster, Farrell, Catt & Rowntree are very much in the same amateur night class (except Rowntree maybe). This is definitely not the world class environment we were led to believe we'd get. If the RFU are going to run the England coaching team on an apprentice basis we might as well have stuck with MJ.
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Post by yappysnap Sat 08 Sep 2012, 1:09 pm

Well said Barney.

I still hope that the RFU may get some kind on analyst or adviser in to help Lancaster, some one with plenty of Int experience like Deans or Henry.

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Post by Geordie Sat 08 Sep 2012, 2:19 pm

MJ was getting things right but at the same time had issues over him.

His side did play some scintilating attacking rugby...but it was rare...and there was some crud aswell.
There was also a problem with the breakdown debacle and selection policy.

This current tema have sorted out the breakdown no end...but we have seen absolutely NO attacking play whatsoever...

I need to see some attacking play in the AI's using Ashton, using Wade or Goode or Brown or Foden...giving Tuilagi space to cause the damage we know he can....
If i dont see that in any of the games...i will start to become critical of the current regime....
Im not looking for world class unbeatable rugby...i just want to see a little bit of quality attacking play...to show that we are moving in the right direction.

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