HC final - Saracens vs Toulon - Cardiff - Wilko vs Farrell.....

Should be a cracker (England vs France) with two of the best teams in the NH playing each other in a celebration of rugby, can't wait to get there and soak up the atmosphere before, during and after the game, roll on 24th May.

Scrumpy wrote:Should be a cracker (England vs Francebarbarians) with two of the best teams in the NH playing each other in a celebration of rugby, can't wait to get there and soak up the atmosphere before, during and after the game, roll on 24th May.

Fixed

Depends which Saracens turns up on the day - the team which blew Clermont away or the team that struggled to put away a 14-man Ulster. Thought Toulon were very poor today and only won because of Munster's woeful discipline in the first half - barely a smell of a try for Toulon apart from the one Zebo prevented on Armitage. Big improvement needed.

Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

Wilko vs Farrell. Past vs present. Top of AP vs top of top14. Sounds about as good as it gets to me.

ME-109 wrote:Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

I'm sorry no Irish team got to the final   

nathan wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

I'm sorry no Irish team got to the final   

you're right there..rugby is the loser all round

ME-109 wrote:

nathan wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

I'm sorry no Irish team got to the final   

you're right there..rugby is the loser all round

Sarries played some excellent rugby in defence and attack. Toulon were fairly poor but you only have to beat what's in front of you. Today's game always had the look of a stodgy affair about it.

ME-109 wrote:

nathan wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

I'm sorry no Irish team got to the final   

you're right there..rugby is the loser all round

Yes because the irish are all about the greater good of rugby....

Well at least you cant complain that the English/French were trying to change the HC because they couldn't win it now.

Cyril wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

nathan wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

I'm sorry no Irish team got to the final   

you're right there..rugby is the loser all round

Sarries played some excellent rugby in defence and attack. Toulon were fairly poor but you only have to beat what's in front of you. Today's game always had the look of a stodgy affair about it.

true..unless of course you have referees helping you out a fair bit.

of course the ref for the final will be interesting...i wonder who it will be

quinsforever wrote:Wilko vs Farrell. Past vs present. Top of AP vs top of top14. Sounds about as good as it gets to me.

As I said somewhere else, this has the potential to be a dream of a matchup from a Marketing perspective.  Properly handled, this should be as huge as it gets, even by the standards set by recent finals.  

Regarding the game itself, it is hard to judge Toulon.  They have the horses to be dynamic across the backs, but play much more conservatively.  Seemingly playing to do just enough to win.  I s'pose if it works, then why change?  They did get to the Munster line three times I recall, twice turned over and once stopped by that great cover tackle by Zebo.  I would like them to open up.  Perhaps with Bernie Laporte running the show, that ain't going to happen.  Most of their team are fundamentally very solid and simply know how to win.  

On paper Saracens do not seem to have the same man-for-man game breaking potential as Toulon.  It's good for them the game is not played on paper because they do go out and score points.  But their core are clearly their forwards who are tough as nails but can really move the ball when needed.  Brits is unique and the rest is simply very good talent, and well coached.  They also will get the Gold and Silver medals for the mangled Rugby nose competition (Burger and Borthwick).

I think this will be well played, exciting, and close.  Looking forward to it.

ME-109 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

nathan wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

I'm sorry no Irish team got to the final   

you're right there..rugby is the loser all round

Sarries played some excellent rugby in defence and attack. Toulon were fairly poor but you only have to beat what's in front of you. Today's game always had the look of a stodgy affair about it.

true..unless of course you have referees helping you out a fair bit.

of course the ref for the final will be interesting...i wonder who it will be

Yeah, I thought Lobbe was really unlucky to get the yellow. Murray is quite the thespian.

Strange that Zebo's try was awarded without a check too.

Wouldn't say Barnes was helping Munster but there were a few odd decisions in their favour. Luckily Jonny and Delon ensured the best team on the day won.

Sarries likely to have AP semi the week before and final the week after, with a bunch of key players heading straight to NZ on your.

Toulon also likely to have playoff the week before and final the week after.

Wonder what impact that will have.

Certainly not great for England players heading to NZ...Farrell, billy v, mako v, barritt, Ashton et so.

Cyril wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

Cyril wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

nathan wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

I'm sorry no Irish team got to the final   

you're right there..rugby is the loser all round

Sarries played some excellent rugby in defence and attack. Toulon were fairly poor but you only have to beat what's in front of you. Today's game always had the look of a stodgy affair about it.

true..unless of course you have referees helping you out a fair bit.

of course the ref for the final will be interesting...i wonder who it will be

Yeah, I thought Lobbe was really unlucky to get the yellow. Murray is quite the thespian.

Strange that Zebo's try was awarded without a check too.

Wouldn't say Barnes was helping Munster but there were a few odd decisions in their favour. Luckily Jonny and Delon ensured the best team on the day won.

you are quite right Barnes was definitely not helping Munster but neither were we helping ourselves. Zebo got the ball down so no worries there.

in terms of refs it would seem sarries have certainly a few game changing decisions going in their favour. What did you think of farrells dive into chouly yesterday. No less than will greenwood said he milked that. Overall a 21 point turnaround in terms of the ref, again based on Barnes and greenwoods analysis. I wonder how mr Rolland will do in the final...

Wonder if it's too much to hope that we can avoid the HC final thread being hijacked by Irish player selection or Gaelic football...

quinsforever wrote:Sarries likely to have AP semi the week before and final the week after, with a bunch of key  players heading straight to NZ on your.

Toulon also likely to have playoff the week before and final the week after.

Wonder what impact that will have.

Certainly not great for England players heading to NZ...Farrell, billy v, mako v, barritt, Ashton et so.

This Euro final will be very physical and attritional.  As will be the Premiership and Top 14 playoffs.  Can't help but have an impact on all teams involved.  

Additionally it really brings into focus the brilliance of the NZ tour being scheduled for right after the Euro and premiership playoffs.  I would guess that of the three matches against the ABs, the only one with a starting England XV resembling a probable RWC XV would be the third one.  Shame because playing the ABs requires one's best at all times.

Does the winner get to keep the trophy given the tournament ends after the final.

New tournament surely means a new trophy???

they should give it to wilko to take home if toulon win

I'm sure they can afford a new one...

Wilko v Farrell. Should be interesting. Will Farrell be fit by then?

Thought Toulon would win today. But by a bigger margin than they did. But give Munster credit they really stepped up in the second half today.

Looking forward to the game. I am also looking forward to the MASTER AND THE APRENTICE, too see who comes out on top.

oh i am soooo looking forwards to watching the next few years of rabo qualification for the new thingy.

on the plus side, it will actually increase the appeal of the rabo far beyond its current and traditional audience.

on the negative side, these boards are going to be horrific when one of the top 3 irish sides fails to make it.

nathan wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

nathan wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Would be interesting if you added a "none of the above" just to see what the result would be..  

I'm sorry no Irish team got to the final   

you're right there..rugby is the loser all round

Yes because the irish are all about the greater good of rugby....

Well at least you cant complain that the English/French were trying to change the HC because they couldn't win it now.

When you say Irish don't you mean Rabo? We seem to be only lumped in together when it fits the argument...

quinsforever wrote:Wonder if it's too much to hope that we can avoid the HC final thread being hijacked by Irish player selection or Gaelic football...

quinsforever wrote:oh i am soooo looking forwards to watching the next few years of rabo qualification for the new thingy.

on the plus side, it will actually increase the appeal of the rabo far beyond its current and traditional audience.

on the negative side, these boards are going to be horrific when one of the top 3 irish sides fails to make it.

Here's a tip; don't complain about Irish hijacking threads then hang out rancid troll bait that will definitely encourage Irish posters to come onto this thread.

You see what you've done? You've just ensured the conversation will indeed be derailed by Irish posters now. If you want grown-up rugby chat, then act like a grown-up. This sort of thing just leads to tiresome bickering and makes me eventually have to moderate. I don't like moderating. I like posting.

doctor_grey wrote:

quinsforever wrote:Wilko vs Farrell. Past vs present. Top of AP vs top of top14. Sounds about as good as it gets to me.

As I said somewhere else, this has the potential to be a dream of a matchup from a Marketing perspective.  Properly handled, this should be as huge as it gets

Not forgetting D. Armitage V Ashton. No1 AP panto villain V No1 Top14 panto villain

Doctor grey you say Saracens don't have the same game breaking potential as Toulon. There's ample there - Brits,Burger,Vunipola bros,Ashton,Bosch,Farrell, Goode etc. maybe not man for man vs Toulon but we are playing at a good level. Our backs aren't as star studded as the Toulon ones but there's a nice balance to it at the moment.

Me-109 has the Frenchman Rolland been confirmed for the final? If so then it's definitely advantage Toulon. Whenever Rolland refs we lose or come very close to. Worst ref in the competition should not be given the final! Plus his stodgy, stop start style definitely favours a side like Toulon.

If Saracens can beat Rolland and Toulon it will be a monumental achievement.

I think it will be a cracking final.

There's very few, if any, Saracens or Toulon fans on here.  So it should turn into a good old slanging match about the merits (or lack of) of English v French rugby as the OP alludes to.

I'm kinda hoping that Saracens win cos Mark McCafferty deserves to have a perfect end to his season, and Ashton should get to make one more swan dive for his adoring public before getting on the plane to New Zealand.   And best of all, Mourad Boudjellal would get a very public bloody nose, which is always a good thing for the Comic King.

ME-109 wrote:

you are quite right Barnes was definitely not helping Munster but neither were we helping ourselves. Zebo got the ball down so no worries there.

I think that's the first time I've heard someone say being gifted an extra man advantage and a try by the ref is not helping... strange times! Barnes was def Munsters most consistent player yesterday.   

I wasn't able to see either match this weekend, but judging by Saracens' performance, it's theirs to lose now. That was a demolition of a very good Clermont side (admitedly, HC nearly men, but still a very good side).

It pains me to say it, but with the final this side of the channel, and with the French notorious for travelling poorly, Saracens are my favourites this year and comfortably so I would think.

I also can't help thinking that that's the last we'll see an Irish Province in the final of a HC for some time... just a hunch.

Perversely, i'm also pleased that Saracens are fighting on two fronts because I can't help feeling that they're going to end up playing Leicester in either the AP play-offs or the final, and that must have an effect on Saracenss stamina/momentum.

Pot Hale wrote:I think it will be a cracking final.

There's very few, if any, Saracens or Toulon fans on here.  So it should turn into a good old slanging match about the merits (or lack of) of English v French rugby as the OP alludes to.

I'm kinda hoping that Saracens win cos Mark McCafferty deserves to have a perfect end to his season, and Ashton should get to make one more swan dive for his adoring public before getting on the plane to New Zealand.   And best of all, Mourad Boudjellal would get a very public bloody nose, which is always a good thing for the Comic King.

French rugby? We are talking about Toulon here

If ever the final represented the death of Euro rugby I doubt two more apt teams could be chosen. No interest in this game whatsoever.

RIP Heineken cup.

GunsGerms wrote:If ever the final represented the death of Euro rugby I doubt two more apt teams could be chosen. No interest in this game whatsoever.

RIP Heineken cup.

So what match would you have been interested in?

A repeat of last year's final?

Does that mean we will have the pleasure of not seeing your posts as u have no interest?

Because presumably any posts would just be wums if you have already declared no interest in the topic?

quinsforever wrote:Does that mean we will have the pleasure of not seeing your posts as u have no interest?

Because presumably any posts would just be wums if you have already declared no interest in the topic?

Ah leave him to weep, we all know deep down Ulster were robbed of the chance to play Clermont lol.

yappysnap wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

you are quite right Barnes was definitely not helping Munster but neither were we helping ourselves. Zebo got the ball down so no worries there.

I think that's the first time I've heard someone say being gifted an extra man advantage and a try by the ref is not helping... strange times! Barnes was def Munsters most consistent player yesterday.   

Yeah he really helped us out at scrum time...  

beshocked wrote:Doctor grey you say Saracens don't have the same game breaking potential as Toulon. There's ample there - Brits,Burger,Vunipola bros,Ashton,Bosch,Farrell, Goode etc. maybe not man for man vs Toulon but we are playing at a good level. Our backs aren't as star studded as the Toulon ones but there's a nice balance to it at the moment.

Me-109 has the Frenchman Rolland been confirmed for the final? If so then it's definitely advantage Toulon. Whenever Rolland refs we lose or come very close to. Worst ref in the competition should not be given the final! Plus his stodgy, stop start style definitely favours a side like Toulon.

If Saracens can beat Rolland and Toulon it will be a monumental achievement.

Logic would suggest it will be Rolland...French/English final. If not Rolland it will be one of the Irish Refs (good luck with that).

Given you have had two refs in your pocket for the QF and SF maybe it will even itself out in the final.

Bitter much?

Obviously sarries couldn't win against the oirish without significant help from the ref, tjs and tmo. Let's hope they still have some pennies left for the final as that's their only chance...lol

46-6 with Owens proving decisive...he should have won MotM given he was responsible for such a margin of
Victory

I used to think most Irish posters were true fans, when did they get soooo bitter?

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If ever the final represented the death of Euro rugby I doubt two more apt teams could be chosen. No interest in this game whatsoever.

RIP Heineken cup.

So what match would you have been interested in?

A repeat of last year's final?

Anyone but the two most horrible teams in Euro rugby history. Such a final really does mark the demise of this tournament and possibly the beginning of the end for European rugby.

Horrible teams.

Top of AP vs top of top14. The two best teams in the two best leagues. A fitting finale for rugby's last HC.

LondonTiger wrote:Bitter much?

Not at all. We have had decisions go our way in the past and also against us. Its a fact of the game. More looking at the law of averages on this one.

quinsforever wrote:Top of AP vs top of top14. The two best teams in the two best leagues. A fitting finale for rugby's last HC.

Too true, normal service resumed.  

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If ever the final represented the death of Euro rugby I doubt two more apt teams could be chosen. No interest in this game whatsoever.

RIP Heineken cup.

So what match would you have been interested in?

A repeat of last year's final?

Anyone but the two most horrible teams in Euro rugby history. Such a final really does mark the demise of this tournament and possibly the beginning of the end for European rugby.

Horrible teams.

What makes them the two most horrible teams in Euro rugby history?

Certainly not Munster and their 10 man rugby that won them their European Cups.

IronMike wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:If ever the final represented the death of Euro rugby I doubt two more apt teams could be chosen. No interest in this game whatsoever.

RIP Heineken cup.

So what match would you have been interested in?

A repeat of last year's final?

Anyone but the two most horrible teams in Euro rugby history. Such a final really does mark the demise of this tournament and possibly the beginning of the end for European rugby.

Horrible teams.

What makes them the two most horrible teams in Euro rugby history?

Certainly not Munster and their 10 man rugby that won them their European Cups.

Epic Fail at an insult...   

I've been to a few HC Finals now and this one coming surely can't be any worse than Toulouse vs Munster, that was dull!

IronMike wrote:What makes them the two most horrible teams in Euro rugby history?

Certainly not Munster and their 10 man rugby that won them their European Cups.

They are both trying to buy the trophy. For me both those teams represent the demise of what makes the Hcup great. Horrible teams that play horrible rugby. Gone are the days of teams with a strong local identity and community spirit.

Thats rubbish Guns, Irish teams have had a their fair share of overseas players too.

"Gone are the days of teams with a strong local identity and community spirit"
Those days went back around 1995!

Scrumpy wrote:I've been to a few HC Finals now and this one coming surely can't be any worse than Toulouse vs Munster, that was dull!

At least Munster is a side with top class local players and a fairly honest budget.

GunsGerms wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:I've been to a few HC Finals now and this one coming surely can't be any worse than Toulouse vs Munster, that was dull!

At least Munster is a side with top class local players and a fairly honest budget.

Like local boy Doug Howlett!