HC final - Saracens vs Toulon - Cardiff - Wilko vs Farrell.....

First topic message reminder :

Should be a cracker (England vs France) with two of the best teams in the NH playing each other in a celebration of rugby, can't wait to get there and soak up the atmosphere before, during and after the game, roll on 24th May.

I'm glad two real 'Clubs' have made the final.   

Club Rugby is the winner.

Gunsgerms you do come across as being quite bitter. Oh and an ignoramus.

Horrible route? You mean top try scorers in the HC by a significant margin? Breaking records like all time HC try scorer and highest winning margin in semi? Beating two of the favourites in the 1/4 and 1/2? Yes it's a horrible route.

Chelski? Saracens have much more English players and a very good academy. Some go the brightest English prospects in the U20s are Sarries guys. Oh and we signed up two more of the U20s proving that we believe in young talent.

Our brand of rugby has also gone from stodgy fest to a much more easier on the eye style.

Not all our players are superstars - we've also delved into the championship for players - two were in the 23 vs Clermont. Barrington and Streather.

Sure there's a lot of class in the team but we've not gone for crazy marquee players like Toulon.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms you do come across as being quite bitter. Oh and an ignoramus.

Horrible route? You mean top try scorers in the HC by a significant margin? Breaking records like all time HC try scorer and highest winning margin in semi? Beating two of the favourites in the 1/4 and 1/2? Yes it's a horrible route.

Chelski? Saracens have much more English players and a very good academy. Some go the brightest English prospects in the U20s are Sarries guys. Oh and we signed up two more of the U20s proving that we believe in young talent.

Our brand of rugby has also gone from stodgy fest to a much more easier on the eye style.

Not all our players are superstars - we've also delved into the championship for players - two were in the 23 vs Clermont. Barrington and Streather.

Sure there's a lot of class in the team but we've not gone for crazy marquee players like Toulon.

I was referring to Toulon re Chelski but you are right Sarries arent far off too.

I wouldnt say any of the players at Sarries are superstars. Lots of mercenaries though. The Sarries squad is like the UN with 13 different nations represented and almost half of the squad from abroad. It is taking the pi$$.

Sarries were the benefactors of two really bizarre decisions from the refs in the quarters and semis. The red card and the penalty try. Sarries arent really a great side. Ashton has had a good year mind you and Farrell is decent but Ashton himself clearly follows the pound around England.

Sometimes the truth hurts no?

  a pint of bitter please.

Guns, I do hope you are feeling at least better after venting so much frustration   

am I the only person who sees the similarity in posting style of GunsGerms and Beshocked? Twins separated at birth?

Same Father maybe, but not twins.

I do agree with the comments that this thread is veering off-topic. However I warned quins that hanging out bait for the Irish posters would only end in tears on Page 1. I was not wrong.

I recommend if people want to discuss whether or not Saracens are pantomime villains they stick to the Saracens thread and if they want to discuss the values of Toulon and Saracens they stick to the respective semi-final threads.

LondonTiger wrote:am I the only person who sees the similarity in posting style of GunsGerms and Beshocked? Twins separated at birth?

No doubt. Opposites attract, but people cut from the same bolt of cloth rarely get along.

Truth? More like the same rubbish you spout like when you thought Munster would lose to Toulouse.

Oh right so helping other countries around the world is taking the p$$.

You don't think having the Namibian captain helps Namibian rugby? He's practically a national hero. You don't think the USA professional players will help develop the USA team? It gives them a rallying point.

Even Scotland who are a developed rugby nation get help from having Brown and Taylor. Bosch's return from an injury ravaged tenure at Biarritz is good for Argentina.

They are not at Saracens just for money.

As for the South African guys we are hardly harming SA. It's not as if any are rated enough to be considered for them.

whocares wrote:Guns, I do hope you are feeling at least better after venting so much frustration   

No, pretty down beat about the future of European rugby to be honest. It is going in completely the wrong direction.

Nothing to do with no Irish teams involved in the final. Leinster werent good enough. Munster and Ulster were and were both good enough to make the final this year.

GunsGerms wrote: The Sarries squad is like the UN with 13 different nations represented and almost half of the squad from abroad. It is taking the pi$$.

30% of the Sarries HEC squad are not EQP. Many of the squad came through the academy, while 4 of englands JWC squad are at Saracens.


A long, long way from extracting the urine.

GunsGerms wrote:Nothing to do with no Irish teams involved in the final. Leinster werent good enough. Munster and Ulster were and were both good enough to make the final this year.

Barely two weeks since you were telling us that Munster were an irrelevance nowadays and no rival to Leinster.

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Nothing to do with no Irish teams involved in the final. Leinster werent good enough. Munster and Ulster were and were both good enough to make the final this year.

Barely two weeks since you were telling us that Munster were an irrelevance nowadays and no rival to Leinster.

I said that before the KO stages. They have improved a lot this year. They deserve credit and I was supporting them on Sunday.

The point I was making and it is true is they dont have a good record v Leinster in recent years. I believe rivals should be evenly matched. Leinster have won 6 of the last 8.

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: The Sarries squad is like the UN with 13 different nations represented and almost half of the squad from abroad. It is taking the pi$$.

30% of the Sarries HEC squad are not EQP.  Many of the squad came through the academy, while 4 of englands JWC squad are at Saracens.


A long, long way from extracting the urine.

20 out of the 44 squad members are from abroad.

Aha we are back to where they were born?

I guess this means that Heaslip, Ruddock and Strauss count as overseas for Leinster?

Britain has always been a land of immigration and we are a mongrel nation. UKIP, the Daily Mail and BNP would like to stop this of course.

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

GunsGerms wrote: The Sarries squad is like the UN with 13 different nations represented and almost half of the squad from abroad. It is taking the pi$$.

30% of the Sarries HEC squad are not EQP.  Many of the squad came through the academy, while 4 of englands JWC squad are at Saracens.


A long, long way from extracting the urine.

20 out of the 44 squad members are from abroad.

So what?

This is Pro club rugby not Provincial, Regional or International.  So what’s your point?

LondonTiger wrote:Aha we are back to where they were born?

I guess this means that Heaslip, Ruddock and Strauss count as overseas for Leinster?

Britain has always been a land of immigration and we are a mongrel nation. UKIP, the Daily Mail and BNP would like to stop this of course.

Really dumb post Tiger.

GunsGerms wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Aha we are back to where they were born?

I guess this means that Heaslip, Ruddock and Strauss count as overseas for Leinster?

Britain has always been a land of immigration and we are a mongrel nation. UKIP, the Daily Mail and BNP would like to stop this of course.

Really dumb post Tiger.

Yes, as dumb as yours in fact.

Just to confirm this was a club game and not an international right?

I'll ask again.


This is Pro club rugby not Provincial, Regional or International. So what’s your point?.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just to confirm this was a club game and not an international right?

I think it might be an international all stars game.

I'll ask again.


This is Pro club rugby not Provincial, Regional or International. So what’s your point?..

Scrumpy wrote:I'll ask again.


This is Pro club rugby not Provincial, Regional or International.  So what’s your point?.

Both teams are full of mercenaries attempting to buy success therefore I dont like them. This isnt good for European rugby at all. I think I have made it clear quite a few times. Are you being intentionally obtuse?

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just to confirm this was a club game and not an international right?

I think it might be an international all stars game.

A club game excellent. So that's that then. it's not as if there's any league or team as far as I'm aware of that just picks the boys form the nearest town. Just get on with it.

So you are saying Clubs, Regions and Provinces should only use players born near by?


Lol   

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just to confirm this was a club game and not an international right?

I think it might be an international all stars game.

A club game excellent. So that's that then. it's not as if there's any league or team as far as I'm aware of that just picks the boys form the nearest town. Just get on with it.

Why not just import 44 players from the SH for every squad in England then?

 

Like the Irish don't use overseas players Lol.....

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just to confirm this was a club game and not an international right?

I think it might be an international all stars game.

A club game excellent. So that's that then. it's not as if there's any league or team as far as I'm aware of that just picks the boys form the nearest town. Just get on with it.

Why not just import 44 players from the SH for every squad in England then?

Because it's an international, they wouldn't qualify to play.

Scrumpy wrote:So you are saying Clubs, Regions and Provinces should only use players born near by?

Lol   

There should be a cap on foreign players with the specific aim of sustaining development of local players.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just to confirm this was a club game and not an international right?

I think it might be an international all stars game.

A club game excellent. So that's that then. it's not as if there's any league or team as far as I'm aware of that just picks the boys form the nearest town. Just get on with it.

Why not just import 44 players from the SH for every squad in England then?

Because it's an international, they wouldn't qualify to play.

Every club squad.

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just to confirm this was a club game and not an international right?

I think it might be an international all stars game.

A club game excellent. So that's that then. it's not as if there's any league or team as far as I'm aware of that just picks the boys form the nearest town. Just get on with it.

Why not just import 44 players from the SH for every squad in England then?

Because it's an international, they wouldn't qualify to play.

Every club squad.

Wouldn't be able to afford them and there's no need as the quality of the young English guys coming through would mean it was unneccessary.

Scrumpy wrote: 

Like the Irish don't use overseas players Lol.....

You are not very bright are you? There is a big difference between the amounts of foreigners in Irish squads and the levels in Sarries and Toulon.

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Wouldn't be able to afford them and there's no need as the quality of the young English guys coming through would mean it was unneccessary.

I agree for the likes of Toulon and Sarries the only thing stopping them is they dont yet have the money. Worringly this may change the more sucessful they become.

GunsGerms wrote:

Scrumpy wrote:So you are saying Clubs, Regions and Provinces should only use players born near by?

Lol   

There should be a cap on foreign players with the specific aim of sustaining development of local players.

Great, but if the local players aren't good enough then fans will disappear as the standard of games will drop off.

Once again this is Pro Club rugby not Regional or Provincial, there is plenty of local clubs to bring on the next generation as well as the clubs own academy’s but lets be honest not everyone can be a top class rugby player these days.

 

GunsGerms wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Wouldn't be able to afford them and there's no need as the quality of the young English guys coming through would mean it was unneccessary.

I agree for the likes of Toulon and Sarries the only thing stopping them is they dont yet have the money. Worringly this may change the more sucessful they become.

You missed the bit after 'and'. Don't worry though you may get to see some irish lads in the final should your prediction come to pass

GunsGerms wrote:

Scrumpy wrote: 

Like the Irish don't use overseas players Lol.....

You are not very bright are you? There is a big difference between the amounts of foreigners in Irish squads and the levels in Sarries and Toulon.

Says the man that only wants local lads to play for their local elite rugby club, because every city and town have one of those.   

What a Gonzo!

Toulon are self sufficient. They break even.

The misconception of them is hilarious.

Scrumpy wrote:I'm glad two real 'Clubs' have made the final.   

Club Rugby is the winner.

Absolutely. well said.

Scrumpy wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Scrumpy wrote: 

Like the Irish don't use overseas players Lol.....

You are not very bright are you? There is a big difference between the amounts of foreigners in Irish squads and the levels in Sarries and Toulon.

Says the man that only wants local lads to play for their local elite rugby club, because every city and town have one of those.   

What a Gonzo!

You obviously dont think English players are good enough?

GunsGerms wrote:

Scrumpy wrote: 

Like the Irish don't use overseas players Lol.....

You are not very bright are you? There is a big difference between the amounts of foreigners in Irish squads and the levels in Sarries and Toulon.

Well yes of course. The Irish have the 'right' amount and Saracens have the 'wrong' amount. Nothing arbitary in that at all.

If Sarries were buying success they went about it all wrong. You've already said they've got no super stars. Nope, they brought in some decent players who bought into the ethos the club was trying to create. Where they're from is a complete irrelevance. The RFU give financial incentives to the clubs to play English players. If they played none at all then the Championship guys will be playing for England. And they were all foriegn then it would Division 1 (or whatever it's called). Of course that's not happening, numbers of foreign players are dropping and there are more English players getting game time week in week out than Irish, Welsh or Scottish. From an international point of view there is no issue. Then it comes down to the club sides, in which case it's up to their fans what they do. saracens are very good at developing their own players and supplimenting them from outside.

Lol   
But not all of them can be the next Farrell or Ashton.

Talking of Ashton what a great performance from him at the weekend too.   

If sarries win I am looking forwards to the delicious irony of Wray getting the last ever HC handed to him by the man he helped boot out of his comfy job as chair or ERC...au revoir JP Lux. Don't let the door hit u on the way out...

Qn for those who watched sarries v Clermont.

I was at the game and I really thought before Farrell's try, the pass to Ashton was forward. It happened right in line with my seat.

Did it look forward on the replays?

Did Owens only enquire about Farrell's knee and grounding, or did he ask is there any reason I can't award the try and the tmo just didn't rewind far enough to review the pass to Ashton?

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why is this thread littered with Irish rugby conundrums?

They're not in the final. Can you talk about them elsewhere.

Go back to quinsforevers post on Page 1. He hung out the rancid bait, now its being taken.

Is that a moderator speaking?

Is this what the board has descended to?

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why is this thread littered with Irish rugby conundrums?

They're not in the final. Can you talk about them elsewhere.

Go back to quinsforevers post on Page 1. He hung out the rancid bait, now its being taken.

Is that a moderator speaking?

Is this what the board has descended to?

What the board has descended two is nasty little bigots like Chunky Norwhich and his pals causing as much upset as possible. I don't throw such allegations around lightly, but some of the vitriol on here since the 6N is disgusting and certain posters are directing it at not just Irish rugby but Ireland rugby fans on a consistent basis. I'm out folks, might come back in a couple of months when some of these guys have finally been banned. Goodbye.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:

Notch wrote:

Chunky Norwich wrote:Why is this thread littered with Irish rugby conundrums?

They're not in the final. Can you talk about them elsewhere.

Go back to quinsforevers post on Page 1. He hung out the rancid bait, now its being taken.

Is that a moderator speaking?

Is this what the board has descended to?

Look. I said at the time; if you're going to say that, you're going to get a reaction and this thread will be derailed. I would be very happy if they didn't as it would mean considerably less work for the mods.

The (my) point, Notch, is that since the franglos have dominated even the ERC-led European tournaments, the amount of bile and back-biting emanating particularly from the provinces has become unacceptable.

I'm not sure that the moderation team is being overly even-handed with its use of the blue pencils available to them.

The deletion of a very few posts allied with a pm to the offender may be preferable to allowing a perfectly reasonable OP to be derailed by some noisome jerks.

Well just bought my tickets for this. £65 each for a top tier end seat but really looking forward to it. Think Toulon will take it but don't mind too much as it should be a great occasion. Would be delighted if Sarries manage to turn it on and sneak a win. Looked to be odd seat available around the ground and plenty of availability on the top tier.