Bath 14 - 18 Saints Post Match thread...!

[maestegmafia]

Date: Friday, September 14
Venue: Recreation Ground, Bath
Kick-off: 19.45 BST (18.45 GMT)
Coverage: ESPN at 19:00

Referee: Andrew Small

The teams:

Bath:
15 Nick Abendanon, 14 Kyle Eastmond, 13 Dan Hipkiss, 12 Ben Williams, 11 Tom Biggs, 10 Olly Barkley, 9 Michael Claassens, 8 Ben Skirving, 7 Carl Fearns, 6 Simon Taylor, 5 Dominic Day, 4 Stuart Hooper (c), 3 David Wilson, 2 Lee Mears, 1 Paul James
Replacements: 16 Ross Batty, 17 Nathan Catt, 18 Anthony Perenise, 19 Dave Attwood, 20 Josh Ovens, 21 Mark McMillan, 22 Ollie Devoto, 23 Jack Cuthbert

Northampton Saints:
15 Ben Foden, 14 Ken Pisi, 13 Dom Waldouck, 12 Luther Burrell, 11 Vasily Artemyev, 10 Stephen Myler, 9 Lee Dickson, 8 Rhys Oakley, 7 Tom Wood, 6 Phil Dowson, 5 Christian Day, 4 Samu Manoa, 3 Tom Mercey, 2 Dylan Hartley (c), 1 Soane Tonga'uiha.
Replacements: 16 Mike Haywood, 17 Alex Waller, 18 Paul Doran Jones, 19 Mark Sorenson, 20 Courtney Lawes, 21 Martin Roberts, 22 Ryan Lamb, 23 Tom May

[maestegmafia]

From www.PlanetRugby.com


Bath have made two changes to their starting XV for Friday's Premiership clash with Northampton Saints at the Recreation Ground.

Paul James comes in at loosehead, with Nathan Catt switching to the bench. James joins Lee Mears and David Wilson in the front-row, with Stuart Hooper and Dominic Day continuing their partnership in the engine room. Simon Taylor, Carl Fearns and Ben Skirving complete the pack.

The other change comes in the centres, with Ben Williams coming in for the injured Matt Banahan. Williams starts at inside centre, with Dan Hipkiss outside him, as Olly Barkley and Michael Claassens are once again selected in the half-back positions. Tom Biggs and Kyle Eastmond, who both crossed the try line last weekend in the victory over Wasps, are named on the wings, with Nick Abendanon completing the line-up at full-back.

With both teams unbeaten so far, Head Coach Gary Gold knows that Friday will be a stern test for Bath.

"Northampton are a very strong side, who have made a good start to the competition. We all know about their strength in the forwards, but they also back that up with some hugely skilful backs who can attack from anywhere on the field," said Gold.

"We were pleased with the performance against Wasps, but know there is still more we can do to improve and we have been working hard on this. It's these big games that you want to be involved in - as a player and as a coach - and whilst it will be a big challenge for us tomorrow night, we are looking forward to it."

Meanwhile, England lock Courtney Lawes returns on the Northampton bench while Stephen Myler is chosen at fly-half.

Director of rugby Jim Mallinder says that Bath will provide a "big challenge" for his players.

"They have started the season very well. In Round 1 they came from a long way behind and held their nerve to win at Sixways, while against Wasps last weekend they put together some dangerous attacking moves," said Mallinder.

"The Rec is always a tough place to play. It is a place where the fans are right on top of you and where it can be intimidating for visiting teams. So it is up to us as to how we respond, and we believe that we can do that in the right way.

"At times in our first two games we have played well and scored good tries. But we have also been guilty of not finishing games off and this is something we will be looking to improve. Despite having only had a five-day turnaround between matches out training has been very positive and all of the players are determined to keep our good start to the season going this Friday."

Form:

Bath have won their opening two games of the 2012/13 Aviva Premiership Rugby season, overcoming Worcester and Wasps. Bath's most recent two victories at The Rec have now both been against London Wasps.

Northampton Saints have also begun with back to back victories over Gloucester and Exeter - the first time the Saints have begun a season with a pair of wins since 2004/05. Northampton have won their last three away games in the regular season. Northampton achieved the Premiership double over Bath last season, including a first victory at The Rec since 2005.

[Bathite]

This will be a huge test for us and a real show of how far we might have come. Banahan on recent form is a loss for us, but Williams is certainly the better 12 and without Pisi, I think we'll be ok in this area. For the first time in a while, with James, we might be able to hold our own in the scrum against the Saints and this will actually give us a platform, whereas before they've just strangled us slowly into a painful defeat.

[maestegmafia]

This really should be the pick of the AP this weekend... Will be my first friday night at the Rec. Saints and Bath both had good form, should make a cracking battle.

[Bathite]

maestag - If its dry, you'll have a blinder mate, great place to watch rugby and booze. Make sure you allow plenty of time for traffic and parking though - nightmare

[bathmad]

I was hopeful of parity if not superiority up front with James up against Mercey. Then I saw that Hooper is still in the team at 4, so felt depressed again.
Think our backrow will struggle also.

[maestegmafia]

maestag - If its dry, you'll have a blinder mate, great place to watch rugby and booze. Make sure you allow plenty of time for traffic and parking though - nightmare

I noticed that last week... I am taking the train, its easier for me.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

I cant help thinking Bath are just one major international utility back off being a great side

[bathmad]

Hersh, is that you?

[Bathite]

I cant help thinking Bath are just one major international utility back off being a great side :whistle:

Is this the HERSH 'signing' you're talking about?

Personally I think we are one beast of a TH short

[HongKongCherry]

I cant help thinking Bath are just one major international utility back off being a great side

From what I've seen of the Saints scrum this season, Bath have a chance of causing them some problems. I do feel Saints are going to sneak this though.

[bluestonevedder]

Another game without a start for Attwood. I thought there might be some kind of rotation going on. Any ideas as to why he's not starting? Has he not looked good?

[maestegmafia]

I'm new to bath RFC so not sure. Certainly didn't hear any chat about him.

[Bathite]

Hooper is club captain and a lineout leader, so normally gets a start. Day had a blinding pre-season, so is keeping the shirt for now. Attwood and Day as a combo won't quite work I don't think, depsite Taylor and Skirving offering good jumping options

[bluestonevedder]

Cheers for the info bathite. What do you think of Hooper and Attwood as a starting row?

[Bathite]

On paper it should probably be the #1 combo, but Day's come in and done a great job so far, so let's see Attwood fight for his place. So chuffed that we actually have some depth now, Caldwell was our best lock by miles last season and he's currently #4 choice, great stuff

[bluestonevedder]

Yeh, Hooper and Attwood looks great on paper, but if Day's performing well, it's great incentive for Attwood to raise his game too. Hopefully he'll improve from it.

Let's hope Fearns has a big game too, and great to see Lawes back on the bench for Saints. Hoping Wood can continue his good returb from injury!

[maestegmafia]

I am surprised to see how well regarded Day is at Bath to be honest. He was always a reliable if unspectacular player at Scarlets

[Bathite]

Didn't expect Day to be a starter, but he's obviously impressed the coaches, so can't knock him.

[doctor_grey]

Will be interesting to see how much Saints decide to maul Bath. Last weekend they almost mauled Exeter off the pitch and out of Northamptonshire. If they get the upper hand there then it will be a tough evening at the office for Bath.

It will also be interesting to see whether Banahan or George Pisi is the bigger loss for their team. No Brian Mujati for Saints is a loss, but having Courtney Lawes coming off the bench is not a bad place to be, especially if truly healthy.

[maestegmafia]

Will be interesting to see how much Saints decide to maul Bath. Last weekend they almost mauled Exeter off the pitch and out of Northamptonshire. If they get the upper hand there then it will be a tough evening at the office for Bath.

It will also be interesting to see whether Banahan or George Pisi is the bigger loss for their team. No Brian Mujati for Saints is a loss, but having Courtney Lawes coming off the bench is not a bad place to be, especially if truly healthy.

Thats true DG if Lawes has any form, he hasnt really lived up to the previous expectation after showing good form as a youngster.

[LondonTiger]

mm,

Much of Lawes problems have been caused by injury. He made his first (of 9) start against Australia in 2010 (a match England won) aged 21. He made a good impression and played throughout the Autumn internationals of that year. H eplayed well in 3 of the 4 matches, being a off-clour in the last against SA. The rest of the pack went awol that day - but he kept trying.

Since then he has basically either been injured or returning from injury.

[maestegmafia]

He hasn't had much luck has he. Poor bloke, one of a number of players who are on the physio bench more than the reserves bench.

Hopefully he'll show a bit of his bruising form this weekend.

[bluestonevedder]

He's been terribly unlucky with injuries. I'm just hoping now that since he's had such a break from rugby, that all his little niggles have had a chance to heal properly, and he's not being rushed back.

[doctor_grey]

I have a medical opinion about Courtney lawes. Not from any examination, but merely from observation. He is a tall gangly kid (still a young 'un really) who has put on a lot of muscle. Seems to me his injuries could really be due to his body type adjusting to the extra muscle and the stresses that puyts on a frame not really built for it. This kind of thing would usually happen at this age. So I think if he keeps his weight constant, has adjusted his workouts to minimize the muscle to stresses one sees in the gym, then he can recover and do well physically. He has really been injured for only this past season. If properly managed, there should be no reason whay he cannot get back on the growth curve he was on previously and do well.

[yappysnap]

The worry thing is that before injury there was a lot of talk about him having to put a lot more weight on. Looking forward to him coming on and making an impact ball in hand(and staying firmly in hand!!) and smashing some Bath players

[bluestonevedder]

The worry thing is that before injury there was a lot of talk about him having to put a lot more weight on. Looking forward to him coming on and making an impact ball in hand(and staying firmly in hand!!) and smashing some Bath players

Dear God...YES

[LondonTiger]

I have a medical opinion about Courtney lawes. Not from any examination, but merely from observation. He is a tall gangly kid (still a young 'un really) who has put on a lot of muscle. Seems to me his injuries could really be due to his body type adjusting to the extra muscle and the stresses that puyts on a frame not really built for it. This kind of thing would usually happen at this age. So I think if he keeps his weight constant, has adjusted his workouts to minimize the muscle to stresses one sees in the gym, then he can recover and do well physically. He has really been injured for only this past season. If properly managed, there should be no reason whay he cannot get back on the growth curve he was on previously and do well.

DrG,

Agreed. I would also suggest that putting on too much muscle bulk had a big part to play in the interminable injury issues suffered by Henson & Tait

[doctor_grey]

LondonTiger,
I absolutely agree with you about both guys. Tait was even more slender tha Henson and it was very clear that some coaches/physios tried to make him something he was not genetically designed to be. If we look at injuries, a quantifiable percentage of injuries with younger guys is too much muscle on the wrong body frame too quickly and too young.

[doctor_grey]

The worry thing is that before injury there was a lot of talk about him having to put a lot more weight on. Looking forward to him coming on and making an impact ball in hand(and staying firmly in hand!!) and smashing some Bath players

Dear God...YES

#%$^%$#&* **yes** **6 nations** **yes** **Wales**
grumble grumble grumble

[bluestonevedder]

Wilkinson as well, is a good example of bulking up beyond one's natural frame or body type.

[Bathite]

The problem with bulking up is that you can't really develop the ligaments, joints, tendons and bloody supply around them, so you put a massive demand on them

[doctor_grey]

Exactly, bluestonevedder.
I know some of the medical staff at Toulon. They told me that when they took Jonny, the arrangement was to take his existing muscle mass and work with him to make the muscles leaner, more flexible, and quicker. Going directly away from his previous advice which was to bulk up as protection from injury. The results are pretty clear: fewer injuries and playing at a better pace.

[bathmad]

And back on topic.....

[bluestonevedder]

Exactly, bluestonevedder.
I know some of the medical staff at Toulon. They told me that when they took Jonny, the arrangement was to take his existing muscle mass and work with him to make the muscles leaner, more flexible, and quicker. Going directly away from his previous advice which was to bulk up as protection from injury. The results are pretty clear: fewer injuries and playing at a better pace.

That's an interesting post DrGrey, thanks for the insight. How do you know the medical staff?

I appreciate the work that the French medical teams seem to do. Wilko and Thompson are great examples. As opposed to other leagues, the seem to use what a player is naturally given, rather than bulk them out to improve their play. Parra is a good example of this; he's still very slight in frame and build, but he's excellent at what he does. Imagine what some of these AP teams would have done to him!

[bluestonevedder]

And back on topic.....

Haha, sory bathmad.

[yappysnap]

Exactly, bluestonevedder.
I know some of the medical staff at Toulon. They told me that when they took Jonny, the arrangement was to take his existing muscle mass and work with him to make the muscles leaner, more flexible, and quicker. Going directly away from his previous advice which was to bulk up as protection from injury. The results are pretty clear: fewer injuries and playing at a better pace.

That's an interesting post DrGrey, thanks for the insight. How do you know the medical staff?

I appreciate the work that the French medical teams seem to do. Wilko and Thompson are great examples. As opposed to other leagues, the seem to use what a player is naturally given, rather than bulk them out to improve their play. Parra is a good example of this; he's still very slight in frame and build, but he's excellent at what he does. Imagine what some of these AP teams would have done to him!

I think part of it is that they're very happy to have a talented player with faults, like in say defence, while our teams want a very good all rounder before some one who's just very good at one thing. So the French clubs are fine with a smaller player who can play his position well but maybe can't ruck or tackle like a backrower. While some other clubs seem more happy to just have a lump who can tackle well and not balls up too many times instead.

[bluestonevedder]

Yeh, that's a good point yappy, I didn't think of it like that.

But still, what they achieved with Thompson was pretty extraordinary.

[doctor_grey]

How do you know the medical staff?

I appreciate the work that the French medical teams seem to do. Wilko and Thompson are great examples. As opposed to other leagues, the seem to use what a player is naturally given, rather than bulk them out to improve their play. Parra is a good example of this; he's still very slight in frame and build, but he's excellent at what he does. Imagine what some of these AP teams would have done to him!

I went to medical school with one of the surgeons on retainer to the club. Helped on a few difficult ops as well. Treated one of their physions in the past with a long term injury.

That's a great observation about the French, and I bet you are right on the money. And seems so logical, but we really don't do it well, do we.

[doctor_grey]

Back on topic?

[doctor_grey]

But, daddy, i am having fun.

[doctor_grey]

Saints by 20.

[doctor_grey]

No way.

[doctor_grey]

yes, way

[doctor_grey]

that line is old.

[doctor_grey]

so are you

[maestegmafia]

Try by the full back for bath other wise all kicks, not much of a game unfortunately.

[maestegmafia]

A couple of penalties for Barkley. 14-15 to saints

The mighty Lawes just entered the Frey. Let's see what he's got

[maestegmafia]

Masses of subs just came on for bath

[maestegmafia]

Saints drop goal tense final few mins

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