Scotland vs All Blacks @ 2.30pm Sunday 11 Nov Murrayfield

So according to Ratatouille in the NZ Herald Matt Scott gets 4/10 but is "ordinary to say the least". Surprised De Luca gets the same inflated mark tbh. Take a point from each from them (and Lamont) and give them to Mike Blair and its fair enough.

Oh, wind your neck in, 21stC. Scott had a solid game - tackled well, did enough with the ball he was given and had the presence of mind to get the intercept from Carter. Can you imagine any of our other inside centre options doing that? This is only his second season as a pro, and only his first as a full-time pro, and he just acquitted himself well vs the best team in the world.

We all know NDL's faults, and I'd like to see Dunbar given a go at 13, but you're way to quick to write off younng Scott. I'd give him a 6/10.

I felt it was a rather strange game

Scotland normally play a defensive game against SH teams. Putting in a shift at the breakdown and hitting every opponent hard int he tackle.

This time we seemd to play rather open and our defense was shocking.

I know it is NZ that we were playing, but the missed tackles was shocking. And the space we left them and the dog-legs our blitz left were woeful

To me, dan carter was the defining difference. The best 10 in the world having one of his best games. Destructive

Richie McCaw is the worlds greatest cheat. off his feet. Playing the ball on the ground, coming in from the side, taking out jumpers in the lineout. He did it all and the ref never saw him once.

Scotland need to get the tackling sorted. Be more aggressive at the breakdown. Put the attacking we had on Sunday with our normal ferocious defense and things will get better!

tigertattie wrote:I felt it was a rather strange game

Scotland normally play a defensive game against SH teams. Putting in a shift at the breakdown and hitting every opponent hard int he tackle.

This time we seemd to play rather open and our defense was shocking.

I know it is NZ that we were playing, but the missed tackles was shocking. And the space we left them and the dog-legs our blitz left were woeful

To me, dan carter was the defining difference. The best 10 in the world having one of his best games. Destructive

Richie McCaw is the worlds greatest cheat. off his feet. Playing the ball on the ground, coming in from the side, taking out jumpers in the lineout. He did it all and the ref never saw him once.

Scotland need to get the tackling sorted. Be more aggressive at the breakdown. Put the attacking we had on Sunday with our normal ferocious defense and things will get better!

I agree with everything you said TT, although our weakness at the breakdown had to come from the loss of Rennie. He is a very astute breakdown spoiler, ruining the opposition's quick ball all the while drawing penalties and turnovers.

I can't help but think that mad 10 minutes where NZ scored 4 tries, they were helped immensly by Denton joining the fray and our lack of a proper specialist fetcher to disrupt the lightning quick ball they were generating.

Our best chance was to slow the ball down at the breakdown and give our defence a chance to reset. Ultimately we just couldn't compete.

I agree that a 7 would have helped, but I've said it before that they aren't the only people involved in rucks. Yes he might have helped at the rucks that he was able to get to, but that is maybe only 1 in 3 rucks or something like that. The rest of the team need to be better at the breakdown too.

I have to say that before the game and having seen the selection I thought Scotland were going for damage limitation and would be beaten 30: 6. I said then I would prefer them to attack and be beaten 50 -20. Tis better to go down trying.

The scoreline would have been better without the couple of rather soft tires but again it was endeavour ( trick restarts) that failed.

I prefer teams to try and to fail than not to try.

TJ wrote:I have to say that before the game and having seen the selection I thought Scotland were going for damage limitation and would be beaten 30: 6. I said then I would prefer them to attack and be beaten 50 -20. Tis better to go down trying.

The scoreline would have been better without the couple of rather soft tires but again it was endeavour ( trick restarts) that failed.

I prefer teams to try and to fail than not to try.

+1, I liked what Laidlaw was trying to do, had one of them worked and Lamont crashed into the 22 and given us field position we all would have been happy. I agree 100% its better to try things rather than stick to the same old stuff that hasn't served us well in the past.

Massie's points are mostly on the money, particularly as regards Ford - 5 lineouts lost (2 stolen, 2 squint, 1 dropped by Brown/arm ripped away by McCaw). As Radge says, with MacArthur injured, the alternatives are simply not up to standard for test rugby.

I don't agree with his backrow conclusion that we should stick with the combo that played the majority of Sunday, I'd much prefer to see Barclay (who contrary to popular belief has had an ok season, pushed by Fusaro) - if we let Luow have a free4all at the breakdown, we will get turned over royally and see far too little ball.

I am worried about Laidlaw - his restarts were good, putting doubt in NZ's minds, but he has been asking far too little of defences this season - just look at our 3 tries at the weekend, it would've difficult to argue that any came from Laidlaw's vision at 10. I'd like to see Jackson get a chance, his play is much improved for Glasgow

We all know Jackson is an option, but we also all know his kicking just isn't international standard. We can't go into a game against the Saffers with doubts over your kicker.

Yup, RDW, that is his drawback

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Massie's points are mostly on the money, particularly as regards Ford - 5 lineouts lost (2 stolen, 2 squint, 1 dropped by Brown/arm ripped away by McCaw). As Radge says, with MacArthur injured, the alternatives are simply not up to standard for test rugby.

I don't agree with his backrow conclusion that we should stick with the combo that played the majority of Sunday, I'd much prefer to see Barclay (who contrary to popular belief has had an ok season, pushed by Fusaro) - if we let Luow have a free4all at the breakdown, we will get turned over royally and see far too little ball.

I am worried about Laidlaw - his restarts were good, putting doubt in NZ's minds, but he has been asking far too little of defences this season - just look at our 3 tries at the weekend, it would've difficult to argue that any came from Laidlaw's vision at 10. I'd like to see Jackson get a chance, his play is much improved for Glasgow

I have been one of Jackson's strongest supporters, even when Weir was flavour of the month. However, when Jackson plays we need an alternative kicker.

If the game against SA will be as close as we are all thinking every 3 pointer will count. Our only other kicking options would be to play Laidlaw at 9 or bring in Horne. Harsh on both Blair or Scott when they played pretty well at the weekend.

Can Hogg not place kick? ~Why does the 10 have to take the kicks? Just get them all to practice and the best takes the kicks?

Scotland's third try came direct fom Laidlaw, kicking the ball out of the rick, Blair to Visser, Visser scores

TJ wrote:Can Hogg not place kick? ~Why does the 10 have to take the kicks? Just get them all to practice and the best takes the kicks?

My first instinct on reading this was to think "God, he's mental", but you've actually got a point.

I watched 'Moneyball' last week (absolutely brilliant film, by the way) - the premise is that a baseball coach forms a team from outcasts using statistical analysis to win games based on their probability of scoring (massive over-simplification). At one point, the coach hires a washed-up catcher who can still bat very well, and trains him to play at first base. (This is the equivalent of training Richie Gray to play at centre...) - He becomes an average first-baseman, and a brilliant batter.

The point of this convoluted analogy is that if there are players who are certain to start for Scotland if fit, such as Hogg, Visser or Brown, is it that difficult to train them into an average kicker?

On another point, I'd also like someone to drill it into Visser's well-styled head that if he can, he needs to take the ball closer to the posts when he scores. If it means that he doesn't dive or wag his finger, then that's just two birds and all that.

Moeyball was based on a true story.

the point was to forget the probability of scoring based on previous stats but to put more empthasis on the probabilty of hitting first base.

I cant think of a way that would work in rugby though

I reckon Richie Gray ought to practice as the next John Eales.

Loved seeing the big man punt over the penalties.

Yeah, true story - I remember the Oalkand A's in 2002 (famous for winning 20 straight games), but the statistical analysis part of the story wasn't really reported much at the time, contrary to what the film suggests.

In a rugby context, and considering what we've been discussing, it's pretty simple: you take a player who you need to have on the field for their primary attributes, so Hogg, Brown, Gray, etc. and you train them to kick field goals.

IanBru wrote:.

The point of this convoluted analogy is that if there are players who are certain to start for Scotland if fit, such as Hogg, Visser or Brown, is it that difficult to train them into an average kicker?

If it was that simple then why not just coach Jackson to kick????

funnyExiledScot wrote:I reckon Richie Gray ought to practice as the next John Eales.

Loved seeing the big man punt over the penalties.

FES, they say KB used to kick the goals at Melrose...

Kelly is only just became the captain, and no we want to give him kicking duties too?

We already tried it with big Ritchie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSuRNuofjCY

there is also teaching chris cussiter how to catch in a lineout
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx5P9oNRm9k

GLove39 wrote:Scotland's third try came direct fom Laidlaw, kicking the ball out of the rick, Blair to Visser, Visser scores

GLove, sorry I'm not getting your point here? so that's an opportunity that wasn't created from the 'usual' functions of a standoff?

Asbo - did you not know that rucking was a key part of Laidlaw's game??

Ha, silly me, although good effort from the wee man (even if he might have been pinged for it!)

We joke but he has got good form in the rucks - remember the semi against Ulster when he stripped their number 8 of the ball a few meters from our line??

RDW_Scotland wrote:We joke but he has got good form in the rucks - remember the semi against Ulster when he stripped their number 8 of the ball a few meters from our line??

Aye it was that big Saffer backrow who's name escapes me.

Wannaburger?

Do I wannaburger? Nah I'll be getting my dinner shortly mate but I appreciate the offer.

What was that Saffer's name again?

Was waiting for that.

I think it was Wannaburg or something like that, but just too easy to put a burger on the end!

Oh come on that was good for this side of 4pm on a Tueaday!

That was definitely a 17 pages into a thread kind of joke.

I would just like to mention that I was impressed with the way that the SRU left the lights on at Murrayfield after the stadium had been vacated so that the non playing ABs and reserves could hold a full training session, its that sort of attitude and co operation which should get a mention.

Wondering if anyone ha seen this, big interactive 360° photo from the game. So you can spot yourself in the crowd. http://tag.huggity.com/fanpic/046-2012-rbs-scotland-new-zealand/app/index.php It's pretty cool!

GLove39 wrote:Wondering if anyone ha seen this, big interactive 360° photo from the game. So you can spot yourself in the crowd. http://tag.huggity.com/fanpic/046-2012-rbs-scotland-new-zealand/app/index.php It's pretty cool!

I must be really easy pleased, that is simply outstanding!

It is pretty good - got to see the little bawbags that were sitting behind me too - big group of 10 year old Geordies support the All Blacks. Their shrill high pitched shreaking almost ruined the game for me!

RDW_Scotland wrote:It is pretty good - got to see the little bawbags that were sitting behind me too - big group of 10 year old Geordies support the All Blacks. Their shrill high pitched shreaking almost ruined the game for me!

Aw come on RDW, you cant blame them for knowing a good team when they see one.

No problem with them supporting the ABs - but there must have been a load of dogs running to Murrayfield their shrills were that high pitched!

Was hoping all of their voices would break at the same time suddenly.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

GLove39 wrote:Wondering if anyone ha seen this, big interactive 360° photo from the game. So you can spot yourself in the crowd. http://tag.huggity.com/fanpic/046-2012-rbs-scotland-new-zealand/app/index.php It's pretty cool!

I must be really easy pleased, that is simply outstanding!

that is so good lol