England v Fiji - KO 14:30 Sat 10th NOV at HQ - Match Thread/Build Up etc....

[HERSH]

Feel free to discuss this game and any other aspect involving the England Rugby team good or bad as your opinions count and you won't be judged (by me) if you go against England, but do try to give a reason!

Please respect other posters opinions


England team to face Fiji

15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 2 caps)
14. Charlie Sharples (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps)
13. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 13 caps)
12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 7 caps)
11. Ugo Monye (Harlequins, 13 caps)
10. Toby Flood (Leicester Tigers, 50 caps)
9. Danny Care (Harlequins, 33 caps)
1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 3 caps)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 0 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 31 caps)
4. Tom Palmer (London Wasps, 40 caps)
5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 8 caps)
6. Tom Johnson (Exeter Chiefs, 3 caps)
7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 8 caps)
8. Thomas Waldrom (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)


Replacements
16. David Paice (London Irish, 2 caps)
17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 0 caps)
19. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 0 caps)
20. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 9 caps)
21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 24 caps)
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 8 caps)
23. Mike Brown (Harlequins, 7 caps)

[maestegmafia]

England should win this comfortably, despite injuries. Fiji are not the team they once were five years ago.

England had a good International season post RWC. They found some new players, their halfbacks, Care and Flood are in form.

They could realistically put out a third choice front five and still win this comfortably.

The big problem will be stepping up from this first win to the next match vs Australia.

[Geordie]

Cant wait for these games to get started. Looking forward to seeing Fiji play aswell...hopefully they can provide a bit of Fijian Flair.

Even though its "only Fiji" there are a few questions to be asked straight away:

1) How will the SR's go. Launchbury simply MUST get some gametime now that he's in the squad.

2) Can Youngs fine tune his throwing...

3) Can Morgan play for 80 mins at this level...

4) Can we get Barritt more in to the game OFFENSIVELY...

5) As a team can we play more offensively.

[Chjw131]

I agree with those points Geordie, but I don't think we'll see Morgan featuring at all this game and likewise Launchbury. I think the pack will be:

1. J Marler (If fit, otherwise Vunipola)
2. T Youngs
3. D Cole
4. M Botha
5. G Parling
6. T Johnson
7. C Robshaw
8. T Waldrom

16. D Paice 17. M Vunipola (M Mullan) 18. D Wilson 19. G Robson 20. T Wood

It doesn't excite me in parts, particularly SR and Waldrom at 8 I feel is a backwards step.

[HERSH]

40% of the vote has gone for a Fiji win, but no reasons given what a shame.

Do try and give reasons my fellow 606ers.

[Geordie]

It doesn't excite me in parts,

Mate thats the understatement of the AI build ups....

SR, Waldrom...and sadly even Johnson who i accept has been a top performer...just doesnt build an excitement. Lets hope they prove us wrong.

[Alex_Germany]

I think the voting template is the one for the other matches. No disrespect to Fiji, but winning by less than 10 would be seen as a defeat. (Though, IIRC, Wales enjoy losing to Pacific Islanders).

So anyone not think that Burns, Twelvetrees and Launchbury should be in the match day squad, and perhaps starting?

[lostinwales]

I would be amazed if care/flood didnt start. Should definitely be looking to see Burns in the replacements (be nice is 36 was there too) Best chance of starting would probably be Launchbury

[maestegmafia]

I think the voting template is the one for the other matches. No disrespect to Fiji, but winning by less than 10 would be seen as a defeat.

I agree and I think all the larger NH nations at home would expect similar results over Fiji. No matter how they continue to impress at sevens, the fifteen a side team have lost the level they attained in the mid to late nineties.

So anyone not think that Burns, Twelvetrees and Launchbury should be in the match day squad, and perhaps starting?

I think it was a surprise to most non england fans that watch the Premiership to not see the recent additions in the initial squad, maybe also the inclusion of players like Kyle Eastmond of Bath RFC too.

I hope they do get opportunities and England can utilise them as the assets they are.

[Alex_Germany]

I agree and I think all the larger NH nations at home would expect similar results over Fiji. No matter how they continue to impress at sevens, the fifteen a side team have lost the level they attained in the mid to late nineties.

Perhaps other sides have just got better. How can Fiji improve if all their players are scattered around the world playing club rugby. England and Wales complain enough about their players playing for French clubs. It's like England going to New Zealand with half a dozen players and making up the rest with English men playing in the Super League.

[maestegmafia]

I agree and I think all the larger NH nations at home would expect similar results over Fiji. No matter how they continue to impress at sevens, the fifteen a side team have lost the level they attained in the mid to late nineties.

Perhaps other sides have just got better. How can Fiji improve if all their players are scattered around the world playing club rugby. England and Wales complain enough about their players playing for French clubs. It's like England going to New Zealand with half a dozen players and making up the rest with English men playing in the Super League.

The actuality of it, Fiji had some sublime players that are not representing them now, but with regards to your point about dispersed national talent effecting the potency of a nation, I know, trust me I agree wholeheartedly.

[munkian]

England by some.

New players thrown together, 1st game together and all that.

[hugehandoff]

As others have said the real issue is getting ready for the Aussies. That is not meant to belittle Fiji, but is the reality. With that in mind England must start their starting 15 V Australia against Fiji to get them ready. If things work out they can sub the key players at 60 mins with the game won and bring on the bench.

Now is that tempting fate?

[tomhughesnice]

A loss for England would be a massive upset. I don't think England have ever lost to Fiji? So as a prediction game, its a fairly straightforward to think England will win.

10+ win from me. I see England get over 30 points(4-5 tries). Fiji probably sneak 1 or 2 for themselves but not achieving over 20 points.

[maestegmafia]

Games played: 4 0.60% of England's total games ever.

Games won by England: 4

Games lost by England: 0

Games drawn: 0

Most wins in a row for England over Fiji: 4

Most losses in a row for England to Fiji: 0

Largest points for England: 58 58 - 23

Largest points against England: 24 45 - 24

Largest winning margin for England: 35 58 - 23

Largest losing margin for England: -13 12 - 25

Total points for England: 156

Total points against England: 71

Average points for England per game: 39.00

Average points against England per game: 17.75

Average points difference per game between England and Fiji: 21.25

[Geordie]

I think it was a surprise to most non england fans that watch the Premiership to not see the recent additions in the initial squad, maybe also the inclusion of players like Kyle Eastmond of Bath RFC too.

I hope they do get opportunities and England can utilise them as the assets they are..

Maesteg, the frustrating thing is that we couldnt change any players...only replace the injured ones. Its set in stone so to speak...which players were named in current EPS are in it...regardless of their form or the form of their challengers not in the EPS.

Hence Burns could only have been called up to replace Foden...but is that a change you would make.
Even more alarming is the obvious talent of Launchbury couldnt have been callled up for the questionable skills of Botha etc.

When the new EPS is named in January...we would be hoping to see the likes of Burns, 36, Launchbury, Wade, maybe as you say Eastmond?

It certainly brings alot of attention to SL's actual selections this time...as we all can see the potential restrictions of a poor selection.

[maestegmafia]

I think it was a surprise to most non england fans that watch the Premiership to not see the recent additions in the initial squad, maybe also the inclusion of players like Kyle Eastmond of Bath RFC too.

I hope they do get opportunities and England can utilise them as the assets they are..

Maesteg, the frustrating thing is that we couldnt change any players...only replace the injured ones. Its set in stone so to speak...which players were named in current EPS are in it...regardless of their form or the form of their challengers not in the EPS.

Hence Burns could only have been called up to replace Foden...but is that a change you would make.
Even more alarming is the obvious talent of Launchbury couldnt have been callled up for the questionable skills of Botha etc.

When the new EPS is named in January...we would be hoping to see the likes of Burns, 36, Launchbury, Wade, maybe as you say Eastmond?

It certainly brings alot of attention to SL's actual selections this time...as we all can see the potential restrictions of a poor selection.

Crazy, you need to have two EPS selections per year if not three.

[Biltong]

Sad thing about this game is Lancaster will just want to get through this game without injuries.

i can't see Fiji threaten them for 80 minutes.

Would like i if they did beat England though.

[englandglory4ever]

40% of the vote has gone for a Fiji win, but no reasons given what a shame.

Do try and give reasons my fellow 606ers.

You're bound to get one or two rogue welshmen who would dearly love England to lose to Fiji just so they don't feel too lonely holding that particular mantle.

[englandglory4ever]

"Sad thing about this game is Lancaster will just want to get through this game without injuries."

What absolute and utter rubbish!!! Lancaster will want to see his team perform to the highest level, come out firing on all cylinders and put Fiji away with a big score. They have to do that to have any chance with the next 3 games up. Hiding players to avoid injury is something he most definitely will NOT do.

[lostinwales]

Sad thing about this game is Lancaster will just want to get through this game without injuries.

i can't see Fiji threaten them for 80 minutes.

Would like i if they did beat England though.

Yup its the old romantic thing. You want them to win, just, maybe, not this time

[LordDowlais]

England will win this game at a canter, they have far to much quality around the pitch for Fiji to get anywhere near them, Fiji will probably struggle to score any tries, unless Lancaster makes whole sale changes and disrupts the flow, then that will be Fiji's only chance to get points on the board, but by then it will be to late, and the England fans will then be supporting Fiji's plucky attitude.

[majesticimperialman]

Sad thing about this game is Lancaster will just want to get through this game without injuries.

i can't see Fiji threaten them for 80 minutes.

Would like i if they did beat England though.

So you would like it if FiJi beat England. But you would not like if England beat SA right Biltong?

WHY?

[Biltong]

Sad thing about this game is Lancaster will just want to get through this game without injuries.

i can't see Fiji threaten them for 80 minutes.

Would like i if they did beat England though.

So you would like it if FiJi beat England. But you would not like if England beat SA right Biltong?

WHY?

It's the underdog thing mate.

[hugehandoff]

Of course Lancaster will see this game as a much needed and valuable hit out before sterner tests come. Therefore, he will want to see individuals, combinations and overall play go well.

Entirely different from just wanting to avoid injuries, which is a given anyway.

[Morgannwg]

Well if 'England's Lions' (coz you guys will be making up the majority of the Lions 23 right?) do not win 66 nil then you are as crap as I suspected.

[Duty281]

England to make a statement of intent at the home of Rugby. Expecting the tries to flow.

[EngInAuck]

Well if 'England's Lions' (coz you guys will be making up the majority of the Lions 23 right?) do not win 66 nil then you are as crap as I suspected.

what an amazingly thoughtful insight

[hugehandoff]

Morgan.......you are right it should be a cricket score as it is England not Wales playing Fiji. Our expectations are indeed higher

[Morgannwg]

Aii as are our expectations, which is why;
a) We don't settle for a draw/pretend the draw was a win
b) The reason why we beat Fiji 66-0 in our last encounter.

Can you get back on topic please, I don't see why you brought the Grand Slammers into this?

[EngInAuck]

Aii as are our expectations, which is why;
a) We don't settle for a draw/pretend the draw was a win
b) The reason why we beat Fiji 66-0 in our last encounter.

Can you get back on topic please, I don't see why you brought the Grand Slammers into this?

Im going to let you have your moment after all its not everyday wales beats a team from the SH let alone a power house like Fiji

As long As we do not see a repeat of England losing to them 38-34 or heaven forbid draw 16-16 ill be Happy....


...wait , thats not right.

[Morgannwg]

The key is; Score Tries (5-7 points). Hopefully you know how to do that now as I can think of times where you failed to do this. Twice in a row actually against a certain team.

[EngInAuck]

I thought the Key of the AIs was to try and beat SH opposition Like New Zealand Australia and South Africa ?

I can think of ...... actually i cant think of a time your team has ever achieved this ..... If it was pre 2000 forgive me.

[maestegmafia]

it is England not Wales playing Fiji. Our expectations are indeed higher

You have to beat Wales' 66 - 0 win from the last time we played them then.

http://www.itv.com/rugbyworldcup/2011/matches/wales-v-fiji/

[Morgannwg]

I thought the Key of the AIs was to try and beat SH opposition Like New Zealand Australia and South Africa ?

I can think of ...... actually i cant think of a time your team has ever achieved this ..... If it was pre 2000 forgive me.

No I was trying to help you and your team out by saying the key to victories is to notch up a few tries. That usually helps a lot anyway. Englands dominant front 5 Drop Goal tactics are no longer an option.

BTW, when did you last beat 'my team' and how many TRIES did you notch up on your last two attempts?

Answers on a postcard:

Morgannwg
Morg's Palace of Love
PO Box 23
Wales, UK.

[thomh]

I like how Morgannwg gets all defensive as if he had offered something valuable to the debate, only to be picked on unfairly:

Well if 'England's Lions' (coz you guys will be making up the majority of the Lions 23 right?) do not win 66 nil then you are as crap as I suspected.

[EngInAuck]

I thought the Key of the AIs was to try and beat SH opposition Like New Zealand Australia and South Africa ?

I can think of ...... actually i cant think of a time your team has ever achieved this ..... If it was pre 2000 forgive me.

No I was trying to help you and your team out by saying the key to victories is to notch up a few tries. That usually helps a lot anyway. Englands dominant front 5 Drop Goal tactics are no longer an option.

BTW, when did you last beat 'my team' and how many TRIES did you notch up on your last two attempts?

Answers on a postcard:

Morgannwg
Morg's Palace of Love
PO Box 23
Wales, UK.

And all i was doing was letting Wales know that the aim is to win against the Big 3 ? I assumed thats why you've had such an embarrassing record over the past Decade ? it cant surely be because Wales have never been Good Enough ?

And yes well done for beating England in the 6nations ... and oh yes in the Experimental RWC warm up game

I can see why beating England is such a big deal to you Morgannwg , Its not as if you have a traditionally better team to celebrate a win over.

Now heres a question for you .......

How many times have England played wales ?

And for extra Credit what team has won on more occasions


Send Your Reply to ......

1616 Twickenham Road
London
Great Britain
PO Box 3834 ...... you get the idea

[majesticimperialman]

I do believe that England will win on saturday. I would be extremely unhappy if they did not win.

Atleast this game will give the England team a good work out and set them up for next week.

[Morgannwg]

I thought the Key of the AIs was to try and beat SH opposition Like New Zealand Australia and South Africa ?

I can think of ...... actually i cant think of a time your team has ever achieved this ..... If it was pre 2000 forgive me.

No I was trying to help you and your team out by saying the key to victories is to notch up a few tries. That usually helps a lot anyway. Englands dominant front 5 Drop Goal tactics are no longer an option.

BTW, when did you last beat 'my team' and how many TRIES did you notch up on your last two attempts?

Answers on a postcard:

Morgannwg
Morg's Palace of Love
PO Box 23
Wales, UK.

And all i was doing was letting Wales know that the aim is to win against the Big 3 ? I assumed thats why you've had such an embarrassing record over the past Decade ? it cant surely be because Wales have never been Good Enough ?

And yes well done for beating England in the 6nations ... and oh yes in the Experimental RWC warm up game

I can see why beating England is such a big deal to you Morgannwg , Its not as if you have a traditionally better team to celebrate a win over.

Now heres a question for you .......

How many times have England played wales ?

And for extra Credit what team has won on more occasions


Send Your Reply to ......

1616 Twickenham Road
London
Great Britain
PO Box 3834 ...... you get the idea

Why are you going on about Wales? Have you not seen the title?

Thanks for congratulating them anyway, but between you and me, seeing as we shouldn't be discussing the Grand Slammers here, is that it is getting a bit boring putting away England.

Going back, I can see it was a little unfair to expect you to beat Fiji 66 Nil, seeing as the team who nilled them are better than you (so what hope in hell would you have of emulating that?). I think a draw is a more acceptable target although I do expect you to exceed that one. Good luck!

[majesticimperialman]

Going back, I can see it was a little unfair to expect you to beat Fiji 66 Nil, seeing as the team who nilled them are better than you (what hope in hell would you have of emulating that?). I think a draw is a more acceptable target although I do expect you to exceed that one. Good luck!
Morgannwg


Posts: 4347
Join date: 2011-10-10
Location: University of Wales, Newport


About the same hope that Wales have of beeting Australia and New Zealand.

[bluestonevedder]

I thought the Key of the AIs was to try and beat SH opposition Like New Zealand Australia and South Africa ?

I can think of ...... actually i cant think of a time your team has ever achieved this ..... If it was pre 2000 forgive me.

No I was trying to help you and your team out by saying the key to victories is to notch up a few tries. That usually helps a lot anyway. Englands dominant front 5 Drop Goal tactics are no longer an option.

BTW, when did you last beat 'my team' and how many TRIES did you notch up on your last two attempts?

Answers on a postcard:

Morgannwg
Morg's Palace of Love
PO Box 23
Wales, UK.

I love how that is such an arbitrary number. Why not make it the last 5, or 10, or 15 games huh? Oh, because limiting it to the last two games reinforces your point, but extending it over a further period doesn't. Nice one.

[EngInAuck]

Why are you going on about Wales? Have you not seen the title?

Thanks for congratulating them anyway, but between you and me, seeing as we shouldn't be discussing the Grand Slammers here, is that it is getting a bit boring putting away England.

Going back, I can see it was a little unfair to expect you to beat Fiji 66 Nil, seeing as the team who nilled them are better than you (so what hope in hell would you have of emulating that?). I think a draw is a more acceptable target although I do expect you to exceed that one. Good luck!

No worries Bud ill give Credit where its Due.

Your getting bored with beating England because you beat them twice ?

You must be going completely insane with boredom over the humiliating Decade of countless loss after loss at the Hands of the Big 3

I think you'll Find England are better than Wales and here is the proof.

http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

Dont worry "The little Brother of England" (as Foden Put it) may not have achieved as much as the England rugby team , your time will come , you Just Need to be patient , and wait a few years.

[Geordie]

Dear God.....do we have to have a FECKING WALES v FECKIN ENGLAND slanging match in every FECKIN thread!!!!!!

Its Pi$$ing me off!!!!!

[yappysnap]

I want England to play well and start to use the ball as a weapon rather then fear it.

Play well and get the combinations going and the rest will come.

England by 10.

[Morgannwg]

Going back, I can see it was a little unfair to expect you to beat Fiji 66 Nil, seeing as the team who nilled them are better than you (what hope in hell would you have of emulating that?). I think a draw is a more acceptable target although I do expect you to exceed that one. Good luck!
Morgannwg


Posts: 4347
Join date: 2011-10-10
Location: University of Wales, Newport


About the same hope that Wales have of beeting Australia and New Zealand.

Genuinely confuzzled by this post. Are you saying you expect to beat (or draw) with Aus, NZ and SA?

Don't tell me I'm dreaming,
Don't tell me we're dreaming,
I don't ever wanna wake up!
I bin' sleeping with ma eyes wide shut!

[Morgannwg]

Why are you going on about Wales? Have you not seen the title?

Thanks for congratulating them anyway, but between you and me, seeing as we shouldn't be discussing the Grand Slammers here, is that it is getting a bit boring putting away England.

Going back, I can see it was a little unfair to expect you to beat Fiji 66 Nil, seeing as the team who nilled them are better than you (so what hope in hell would you have of emulating that?). I think a draw is a more acceptable target although I do expect you to exceed that one. Good luck!

No worries Bud ill give Credit where its Due.

Your getting bored with beating England because you beat them twice ?

You must be going completely insane with boredom over the humiliating Decade of countless loss after loss at the Hands of the Big 3

I think you'll Find England are better than Wales and here is the proof.

http://www.irb.com/rankings/full.html

Dont worry "The little Brother of England" (as Foden Put it) may not have achieved as much as the England rugby team , your time will come , you Just Need to be patient , and wait a few years.

Yeah and you can have credit on beating Australia on your last two occassions, seeing as that is the arbitrary number. Obvs both of these were well eclipsed by that emphatic draw with SA though. Credit for credit, although all your credit will be gone in 30 days time!

I don't know what humiliation is sorry, I guess we're too busy winning the trophies and humiliating others along the way, by not conceding a try to them for instance .

And no, Auck, those are the IRB world cup seedings and as you are aware, fourth is the desired spot to avoid being grouped with the 3 SH powerhouses at the next RWC. But seeing as England are so good, you can just afford to lose all your games, be grouped with NZ in 2015 and still win the world cup yeah? I think you'll find you are on the bottom of the Grand Slammers boot hence Wales are better than England, results do not lie.

[hugehandoff]

Well if 'England's Lions' (coz you guys will be making up the majority of the Lions 23 right?) do not win 66 nil then you are as crap as I suspected.

Morgan.....in another thread you kindly agreed to terminate the Eng v Wales spat as it does ruin the thread for genuine discussion. You came in with a nice little opening comment above, which has completely sidetracked this thread. If you can agree to move on from this it would be appreciated?

By all means start another dedicated thread (which there was previously) for Eng V Wales wumming as it can be amusing to join in every now and then, but not when it takes over serious threads (you know what I mean?).

Thanks,

[AlastairW]

Answers on a postcard:

Morgannwg
Morg's Palace of WUM
Cardboard Box 23
Wales, UK.

No Troll! YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

There's a pattern with you and threads, they are usually pretty good natured until you come galloping in, gigantic shoulder chip and all. Back to your cardboard box Morg, and grumble your little anti-English sentiments to yourself there; you bring nothing to any thread you in.

England by 10. I'd like to see us give nothing but 100%, or it's a waste of time for both sides. All the AI's should be approached as all or nothing, if we start off anything less than full speed it'll be a shame - but i think practicalities say Lancaster will look to keep injuries down.

[hugehandoff]

I guess Alistair that I am playing nice cop and you bad cop

[Morgannwg]

Answers on a postcard:

Morgannwg
Morg's Palace of WUM
Cardboard Box 23
Wales, UK.

No Troll! YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

There's a pattern with you and threads, they are usually pretty good natured until you come galloping in, gigantic shoulder chip and all. Back to your cardboard box Morg, and grumble your little anti-English sentiments to yourself there; you bring nothing to any thread you in.

England by 10. I'd like to see us give nothing but 100%, or it's a waste of time for both sides. All the AI's should be approached as all or nothing, if we start off anything less than full speed it'll be a shame - but i think practicalities say Lancaster will look to keep injuries down.

Zzzzzz, here comes the previously banned member again. Enjoy your stay while it lasts.

England by 3.

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