Ulster v Treviso Match thread 23rd November 2012

[clivemcl]

FORWARDS (14)
Herring, Brady, Black, Fitzpatrick, Court, Afoa, McComb, Simpson, Diack, Joyce, McComish, Birch, Wilson, Williams.

BACKS (10)
Heaney, McIlroy, O’Connor, Olding, Wallace, Payne, Allen, Cochrane, Andrew, Nelson.


Adam D'arcy is again a notable absentee yet again. This really is mind boggling considering the performance last week. Ricky Andrew is very far off the pace. And our back three in general were very inexperienced. As I mentioned before, D'Arcy is definitely in full training. Yet Anscombe seems to have him at the very bottom of the pile.

[neilthom7]

It is very odd Clive for sure, you would have thought given last week and our lack of lots of options he would have had him in there.

[Artful_Dodger]

When is Doyle back? He put in some great performances at openside early in the season. As for D'Arcy he is being very hard done by you have to feel.

Expected team from that lot...? I would go with

15 - Nelson
14 - Cochrane
13 - Payne
12 - Wallace
11 - Allen
10 - O'Connor
9 - Heaney

8 - Wilson
7 - McComish
6 - Williams
5 - McComb
4 - Diack
3 - Afoa
2 - Herring
1 - Court

Wouldn't mind seeing Payne at fullback to give us more experience and nous there and Allen at 13 where he performed really well at the start of the season. I think Herring deserves a start after Brady's performance last week.

[clivemcl]

Someone on facebook suggesting that D'Arcy was injured, but also 'ill'. I assume he means something more than a cold. Apparantly he's not even really played AIL. So maybe he isn't 100% health, or at least he's quite far off the pace in terms of match practice and fitness.

[Notch]

Seems likely he'd be off the pace since he hasn't really played any rugby at all recently. I wouldn't worry about it. We have enough cover.

I'm more puzzled by Ricky Andrew. Nelson is a major talent, and he's just benching right now. Must be assessing whether Andrew merits a new contract.

Dodger, you must be confused- are you sure you're not thinking of Farrell? Allen has only started one game at 13 this season for Ulster and he was injured within the first 20 minutes. He's generally alternated between the wing positions. I pretty much agree with that team anyway. Feel bringing in Court, Herring and Nelson is the way to go

I'm really worried about this game. If there's one team you need your second rows to have a good game against its Treviso. Accuracy at restarts and lineouts plus robust physicality required from what is a very patched together, hastily improvised second row. I know he's not in the squad and it looks like he won't be released, but I still wouldn't mind seeing Dan Tuohy flown in at the eleventh hour... our second row is desperate right now.

[Artful_Dodger]

Yeh I may well have been thinking of Chris Farrell come to think of it. I think this could be our first loss of the season as well with that team, if we play like we did against Zebre I think we will lose. But then again if we can improve on one facet of the game (second row - restarts and lineout) we have a chance.

[rodders]

I think we may lose this one too but thankfully after sneaking the points against Zebre we aren't under the same pressure to win here.

Don't get me wrong I hope we win, or at the very least get a losing bonus, but the main thing is to see some improvement from last week...particularly the defence and restarts....a lot more commitment and urgency all round.

[clivemcl]

To be honest guys, I think a lot of us are feeling like our unbeaten run has to end at some point, and we are assuming it will be now just cause a few players are missing.

But personally, I want to be on a par with Leinster. Sure we've been banging on about our depth all season. We've been praising McComish, McComb, Diack and Allen.

This is Treviso with 14 men missing.

Last week shouldn't have been as bad as it was, but Anscombe will insist on much better this week. And Treviso shouldnt be any more difficult than Zebre (they've lost a lot more players).

If we want to be standing on level terms with Leinster, this team (which includes Tom Court, John Afoa, Nick Williams, Roger Wilson, Paddy Wallace and Jared Payne) HAS TO WIN THIS ONE. Its a no brainer. If they don't it will be a massive let down to the hard work thats been done so far.

I want to be the team so far in front come spring that we can rest our stars with ease during HC knockout stages. This is the goal. And certainly Treviso (no disrespect) missing their star players should not be the stumbling block to that goal.

BELIEVE

SUFTUM

[rodders]

If we want to be standing on level terms with Leinster, this team (which includes Tom Court, John Afoa, Nick Williams, Roger Wilson, Paddy Wallace and Jared Payne) HAS TO WIN THIS ONE.

Level with Leinster??.... check the League table Clive, we're miles ahead of them!....

[Kingshu]

Terviso are a tough team, esp at home.

But this is Terviso misssing 18 players called up to the 30-man squad for the Autumn Internationals, don't know if they have any in extended squad.

We have better strength in depth than them, plus we are missing a lot less. Zebre put in a good show but they were only missing 5 players.

18 must be the most any pro team is missing. Just to many for me to expect to much from Terviso and it should be a BP win for Ulster.

[Notch]

It's not that I doubt any of the individual players on the teamsheet or our lack of depth. It's that several players in the pack are out of position and the knock-on effect of that that was obvious in our organisation last week at restart and lineout. Small margins that cost you points and momentum. I also think that our lack of a blindside flanker cost us at the breakdown, we weren't sharp there across the board but Nick Williams at 6 isn't going to be hitting rucks like Diack (when at 6), Ferris, Henderson etc. Backrow is unbalanced too. We didn't get any real momentum at our breakdown, our lineout was inconsistent and our gathering of restarts was practically suicidal.

Those aren't the only things we did badly but I expect a big response from the players this week in all of those departments. I think we will sneak it but it will be tight. As far as Treviso are concerned, if I was a Treviso fan I'd see us there for the taking but that really depends on their own strength in depth!

As you can see they are missing a lot of their quality players; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy_national_rugby_union_team#Current_squad

Ulster by 7. Hopefully our scrum can smash 'em too.

[Notch]

In other news, Craig Gilroy just signed a new contract until 2016. And we're waiting in hope and expectation that the IRFU will sign off on a new one-year deal for Johann Muller soon!

We've been tying up a lot of players recently, good to see. Heaney, Black, Herring, Gilroy, Tuohy etc.

[Kingshu]

While we are unbalanced, thats only looking at it from one side, Terviso will be unbalanced as well
they are missing (Ulster missing)
4 front row (2)
2 locks (1)
4 back row (3)
2 scrum halves (1)
1 outhalf (1)
2 centers (2)
3 back (3)

I know ours have changed since then but so have Terviso's I its easier to compare initial call ups rather then try and follow whos injuried, out or added.

Terviso missing pretty much thier starting XV plus most of bench, 4 front row missing, as bad as we have it they have it just as bad or mostly worse.

Winning BP is and should be expected.

[rodders]

It's not just about numbers missing...biggest problem for us is we are down to our 3rd choice half back pairing...no matter how strong we are in other positions then we're going to find it difficult impement a cohesive game plan without experience and quality at 9 and 10.

If we can get the lineout functioning on top of a solid scrum then that will help us though.

[MrsP]

While we are unbalanced, thats only looking at it from one side, Terviso will be unbalanced as well
they are missing (Ulster missing)
4 front row (2)
2 locks (1)
4 back row (3)
2 scrum halves (1)
1 outhalf (1)
2 centers (2)
3 back (3)

I know ours have changed since then but so have Terviso's I its easier to compare initial call ups rather then try and follow whos injuried, out or added.

Terviso missing pretty much thier starting XV plus most of bench, 4 front row missing, as bad as we have it they have it just as bad or mostly worse.

Winning BP is and should be expected.

Ulster missing one lock?

Surely we are missing 3, no?

[rodders]

Four locks if you count Henderson.

Two scrum halves unless we get Marshall back. As Pienaar is 2nd choice fly half he doubles up as two losses...

[rodders]

Not sure if its been mentioned but Gilroy has signed an extension until 2016.

[MrsP]

Four locks if you count Henderson.

Two scrum halves unless we get Marshall back. As Pienaar is 2nd choice fly half he doubles up as two losses...

Do we count Trimble and Gilroy as wings twice and Bowe as both wings, 13 and Fullback?

[rodders]

Four locks if you count Henderson.

Two scrum halves unless we get Marshall back. As Pienaar is 2nd choice fly half he doubles up as two losses...

Do we count Trimble and Gilroy as wings twice and Bowe as both wings, 13 and Fullback?

Makes sense to me......

[MrsP]

So....

That's 53 missing from our squad by my reckoning and we are down to requesting MCB's Medallion "B" players.

If things get any worse we may even have to ask for some of CCB or Inst's First XV!!!!!

[clivemcl]

So....

That's 53 missing from our squad by my reckoning and we are down to requesting MCB's Medallion "B" players.

If things get any worse we may even have to ask for some of CCB or Inst's First XV!!!!!

You dont want to get me going on a rant about Belfast folks forgetting to specify which Inst. RBAI don't have a copyright on the abbreviation! (actually I wouldn't be surprised if they do!)

[Rava]

To be honest guys, I think a lot of us are feeling like our unbeaten run has to end at some point, and we are assuming it will be now just cause a few players are missing.

But personally, I want to be on a par with Leinster. Sure we've been banging on about our depth all season. We've been praising McComish, McComb, Diack and Allen.

This is Treviso with 14 men missing.

Last week shouldn't have been as bad as it was, but Anscombe will insist on much better this week. And Treviso shouldnt be any more difficult than Zebre (they've lost a lot more players).

If we want to be standing on level terms with Leinster, this team (which includes Tom Court, John Afoa, Nick Williams, Roger Wilson, Paddy Wallace and Jared Payne) HAS TO WIN THIS ONE. Its a no brainer. If they don't it will be a massive let down to the hard work thats been done so far.

I want to be the team so far in front come spring that we can rest our stars with ease during HC knockout stages. This is the goal. And certainly Treviso (no disrespect) missing their star players should not be the stumbling block to that goal.

BELIEVE

SUFTUM

Agree with this 100%
I think a few of you are "preparing" yourselves for the disappointment of losing this unbeaten run. 1-15 we are better than (this) Treviso and if you cut out the poor restarts then we have more than enough talent to win this.

[Rava]

It's not just about numbers missing...biggest problem for us is we are down to our 3rd choice half back pairing...no matter how strong we are in other positions then we're going to find it difficult impement a cohesive game plan without experience and quality at 9 and 10.

If we can get the lineout functioning on top of a solid scrum then that will help us though.

This was actually one of the positives from last weeks game.

[Rava]

So....

That's 53 missing from our squad by my reckoning and we are down to requesting MCB's Medallion "B" players.

If things get any worse we may even have to ask for some of CCB or Inst's First XV!!!!!

You dont want to get me going on a rant about Belfast folks forgetting to specify which Inst. RBAI don't have a copyright on the abbreviation! (actually I wouldn't be surprised if they do!)

Oh aye, Ballymena have an "Inst" as well

[rodders]

It's not just about numbers missing...biggest problem for us is we are down to our 3rd choice half back pairing...no matter how strong we are in other positions then we're going to find it difficult impement a cohesive game plan without experience and quality at 9 and 10.

If we can get the lineout functioning on top of a solid scrum then that will help us though.

This was actually one of the positives from last weeks game.

Individually yes both did pretty well but we are missing the experience and control that the senior guys - Pienaar, Jackson and Marshall - bring. Thats not a criticism of anyone I'm just pointing out that when you change key units like the halfbacks and backrow then it has an impact on your attacking and defensive cohesion and I believe we saw that last week.

I think we can win this one of course but we'll need a big improvement on last week. If we win I'll be delighted but the world won't end if we lose this one either. Its not about preparing to lose but about not expecting too much (for me) of an understrength side containing a lot of inexperienced guys who haven't played much at this level.

[MrsP]

So....

That's 53 missing from our squad by my reckoning and we are down to requesting MCB's Medallion "B" players.

If things get any worse we may even have to ask for some of CCB or Inst's First XV!!!!!

You dont want to get me going on a rant about Belfast folks forgetting to specify which Inst. RBAI don't have a copyright on the abbreviation! (actually I wouldn't be surprised if they do!)

Oh aye, Ballymena have an "Inst" as well

You 2 are the one's who seem to be assuming I was referring to RBAI.

[Notch]

So if the Ireland team is what Josef Thornely thinks it will be in the Irish Times Jackson, the Marshall 'brothers' (ahem), Tuohy and Cave will all be in the stands.

Any odds on any of them getting a flight to Italy, even to sit on the bench?

[Rava]

So....

That's 53 missing from our squad by my reckoning and we are down to requesting MCB's Medallion "B" players.

If things get any worse we may even have to ask for some of CCB or Inst's First XV!!!!!

You dont want to get me going on a rant about Belfast folks forgetting to specify which Inst. RBAI don't have a copyright on the abbreviation! (actually I wouldn't be surprised if they do!)

Oh aye, Ballymena have an "Inst" as well

You 2 are the one's who seem to be assuming I was referring to RBAI.

Are you not one of those that thinks Northern Ireland ends once you get to Glengormley?

[MrsP]

So....

That's 53 missing from our squad by my reckoning and we are down to requesting MCB's Medallion "B" players.

If things get any worse we may even have to ask for some of CCB or Inst's First XV!!!!!

You dont want to get me going on a rant about Belfast folks forgetting to specify which Inst. RBAI don't have a copyright on the abbreviation! (actually I wouldn't be surprised if they do!)

Oh aye, Ballymena have an "Inst" as well

You 2 are the one's who seem to be assuming I was referring to RBAI.

Are you not one of those that thinks Northern Ireland ends once you get to Glengormley?

Glen...where?

I try to ensure I never venture more than half a mile west of the Lagan.

EVER!

I have heard of Whiteabbey but consider it an outpost.

[clivemcl]

This is unexpected....

(15-9): P Nelson; A Trimble, J Payne, P Wallace, M Allen; N O'Connor, P Marshall;
(1 -8): T Court, R Herring, D Fitzpatrick, R Diack, N McComb, N Williams, M McComish, R Wilson (capt);
Replacements (16-23): N Brady, C Black, J Afoa, J Simpson, A Birch, M Heaney, S Olding, C Cochrane.

[Don Alfonso]

Happy to see Nelson, Herring and Fitzpatrick starting.

Bringing Trimble and Marshall in seems a bit risky. Undoubtedly quality players, but they've spent the week having their talent sucked out of them in the Ireland set up...

[Rava]

So Trimble and Marshall were already on their way before Deccies announcement.
I expect to see Trimble kill dead things. Once again shafted by Ireland (albeit its another Ulster player who benefits).
Pleased with that team and Marshalls inclusion will no doubt make Rodders feel better about the half backs

[rodders]

Massive boost to get Trimble and Marshall back! Trimbs needs a big game here, I'm sure he'll be out to prove a point.

OK changed my mind, losing is not acceptable! SUFTUM!

[rodders]

Pleased with that team and Marshalls inclusion will no doubt make Rodders feel better about the half backs

[humphstheman]

There is only one Inst and it is 'ancient and royal."

[MrsP]

Oh no!!!!



Now I'll forever be known as the one who started the great Inst war of 2012!

Like watching 2 bald men fighting over a comb!

[Kingshu]

the comparasion I did earlier was of our Itial call ups to Ireland squad v Terviso's to Italy, since theen we've had a few injuries and a few more called up, but Tervisco prob have had the same, but with no Tervisco fans about to tell us who is called up and injuried thought only fair to compare starting squad call ups.

Rodders you are worried we're down to third choice half backs, but terviso are missing 2 scrumhalves, and an outhalf as well, so its not like they have a unit that will be better than ours to boss the game.

They are also missing 4 players from the front row, we're missing one, so scrum time we should have a massive advantage, court and Afoa should be able to make the most of this.

Were we are weak they are about as weakened, and in many places even weaken, given our squad is better and has less players missing we should get the bonus point.

We could complain about locks, but our front row more than makes up this.

[Standulstermen]

Good team. Expecting a win here.

[Notch]

OK changed my mind, losing is not acceptable! SUFTUM!

Was it ever acceptable? I want to go to Christmas unbeaten. I appreciate we might not, but I want it! And the players will do to. They will have a point to prove this week.

Just win those lineouts and restarts boys. Big game needed from Robbie and Neil. If they deliver I believe we will win through.

[Rava]

OK changed my mind, losing is not acceptable! SUFTUM!

Was it ever acceptable? I want to go to Christmas unbeaten. I appreciate we might not, but I want it! And the players will do to. They will have a point to prove this week.

Just win those lineouts and restarts boys. Big game needed from Robbie and Neil. If they deliver I believe we will win through.

Dear Santa...

[rodders]

OK changed my mind, losing is not acceptable! SUFTUM!

Was it ever acceptable? I want to go to Christmas unbeaten. I appreciate we might nit, but I want it! And the players will do to. They will have a point to prove this week.

I always want to win, but wanting to win and needing to are different things. I think we have a great chance now with Trimble and Marshall back to bolster us.

[clivemcl]

Of course the downdside to this is (and forgive my assumptions of tomorrow night already), when WILL we lose. We can't afford to let it be Northampton home or away. but goodness, please don't let it be Leinster that breaks us! Please no!

I'd take an embarrassment of a hammering from treviso happily to insure a one point win against Leinster! Can you bargain with Santa? I've been pretty good this year...

[Notch]

Last time we won the Pro12 we lost to Leinster home and away- I'd take that if we were the ones with a big, shiny Heineken Cup trophy in May and not them!

[rodders]

Notch I'd happily lose all the games if we were the ones with the big shiny trophy(ies).... hmmm....wait maybe I haven't thought that one through....

[Kingshu]

Notch I'd happily lose all the games if we were the ones with the big shiny trophy(ies).... hmmm....wait maybe I haven't thought that one through....

You get a wooden spoon for that, rodders.

[MrsP]

Notch I'd happily lose all the games if we were the ones with the big shiny trophy(ies).... hmmm....wait maybe I haven't thought that one through....

You get a wooden spoon for that, rodders.

Tin of Varnish and we're sorted!

[Notch]

Treviso (15-1): Brendan Williams, Giulio Toniolatti, Christian Loamanu, Andrew Vilk, Ludovico Nitoglia, Alberto Di Bernardo, Fabio Semenzato, Marco Filippucci, Paul Derbyshire, Valerio Bernabò, Corniel Van Zyl, Marco Fuse, Jacobus Roux, Franco Sbaraglini, Matteo Muccignat.

Replacements: Enrico Ceccato, Giovanni Maistri, Ignacio Fernandez-Rouyet, Filippo Giusti, Andrea Pratichetti, Angelo Esposito, James Ambrosini, Luca Morisi

Thats a much weakened Treviso side, especially in the front row and in the halfbacks.

[VinceWLB]

One prop, no lock on the bench for Treviso, a lock at 6, back line is not that bad actually Loamanu is dangerous.

Big game for Bees Roux, time for him to show what he is made of.

[MrsP]

One of their replacement hookers must be okay at prop surely or they wouldn't be allowed to play there, no?

I know there is a hugh difference between "qualified" and "adequate" though.

[WillyGilly]

Oh no!!!!



Now I'll forever be known as the one who started the great Inst war of 2012!

Like watching 2 bald men fighting over a comb!

We used to have a song about Inst in Wallace, but in the interests in decency I won't share it.

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