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England Team for the Third Test

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newballs
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Post by Duty281 Mon 26 Nov 2012, 7:13 am

First topic message reminder :

I would only make two changes, Samit Patel out for Ian Bell, who I assume is available for the third Test. Patel's in for his batting, so I feel we should get a proper Test batsman in. I know Bell doesn't play well in the subcontinent, but a good score has to be around the corner. Secondly, Finn in for Broad if he's fit which would give our pace attack that extra edge and pace. Leaving us with this team:

1) Cook
2) Compton
3) Trott
4) Pietersen
5) Bell
6) Bairstow
7) Prior
8) Swann
9) Anderson
10) Panesar
11) Finn

Longer tail, but the top 7 should be able to muster enough runs between them.

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Post by LivinginItaly Tue 27 Nov 2012, 12:12 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
LivinginItaly wrote:Maybe prior prefers batting at 7 where he feels he can play with a bit more freedom, it could be his choice. However, I agree that he is good enough to bat 6 but I don't want him to bat 6. My reasoning being that with prior at 6 there will be a greater temptation to play an "allrounder" type of player at 7 which usually weakens the batting e.g. bresnan at 7. I much prefer six batsmen plus prior at 7.

Whereas its fine to play one (Patel) at 6?

If you read further up the thread I have I don't think Patel should play for that exact reason. I have said it should be bell at 5 and bairstow at 6 with prior at 7, but I am prepared to entertain thoughts of swapping prior and Barstow due to the current form of prior.

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Post by Guest Tue 27 Nov 2012, 12:27 pm

For me:

1) Cook
2) Compton
3) Trott
4) Pietersen
5) Bell
6) Prior
7) Patel
8) Swann
9) Anderson
10) Panesar
11) Finn

It does depend on the pitch. If it is to be a flat wicket, England need as much variation as possible. Broad has to miss out. I don't think he has done well in the conditions and Finn can generate much more bounce off the pitch. I would like to see Prior further up the order. I am concerned that the selectors may go back to Bresnan purely because of the batting and how well he can bowl on flat wickets despite his limited success in India thus far. Bell to come back in. I don't think it was ideal for him to come out for the first test given the personal circumstances with the birth of his child. The guy is a class act and can score quickly if required. Bairstow to miss out, though he has done well in the field. I think Patel should stay in because he can bowl overs and give the spinners a break should the pitch be a batter's paradise.

Looking forward to the match. Hoping the pitch will be a belter Smile

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Post by teassoc Tue 27 Nov 2012, 12:53 pm

To those advocating Bell's return, his performances vs Pakistan, Sri Lanka and India this year have been far from impressive.

51 vs Pakistan in 6 innings
83 vs Sri Lanka in 3 innings, and
22 vs India in 2 innings.

Gives him an average of 14.2! Just possibly as some have said, a great innings is just around the corner. I doubt it but would love to be proved wrong.

I prefer Bairstow at present for his batting and fielding.


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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 27 Nov 2012, 12:58 pm

Fielding? Bell is possibly the best short leg fielder in the world.

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Post by Stella Tue 27 Nov 2012, 1:03 pm

And a world class batsman but hey Patel can bowl a bit Wink
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Post by teassoc Tue 27 Nov 2012, 1:20 pm

Fists of Fury wrote:Fielding? Bell is possibly the best short leg fielder in the world.

I didn't mean to imply Bell is not a top class fielder.

But Baistow is too. So it's a question of who's most in form with the bat and sadly Bell isn't. On that basis I'd rather give Bairstow time to make a name for himself.

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Post by teassoc Tue 27 Nov 2012, 1:25 pm

Stella wrote:And a world class batsman but hey Patel can bowl a bit Wink

Bell is not currently showing world class batting skills in asian batting conditions is he? So those arguing for his selection are doing it on the basis of his past form and a wing and prayer that it will return. Maybe it will but the odds are against it right now.

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Post by Stella Tue 27 Nov 2012, 1:28 pm

Like it or not, he will be back in but for who? I would oust Patel and bring in Morgan.
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Post by Hibbz Tue 27 Nov 2012, 4:43 pm

I'd like them to keep the same side. Those that performed can't be dropped and those that didn't have a chance to perform in a winning side. I'd rather they sent Bell home, partly because I've a feeling that's where his mind would be but mainly because I find his silly little face insufferably irritating.

Perhaps Finn for Broad if Finn is fit.

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Post by newballs Tue 27 Nov 2012, 4:49 pm

Hibbz I concur. Don't think you should tinker with a winning side although I do think they need some assurances Broad is fit and up to the challenge first.

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Post by Fists of Fury Tue 27 Nov 2012, 4:53 pm

Finn took a Michelle for the performance side today, apparently getting pace and bounce out of the wicket that no other (Meaker included) could get. If fit enough for a Test match, he simply has to replace Broad.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Tue 27 Nov 2012, 6:40 pm

if Finn is fit (ie no reaction to his bowling today) he should play. I'm a big fan of Broad, and think he's just going through a poor patch at the moment, but Finn will cause far more problems for the Indian batsmen on these pitches.

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Post by Carrotdude Tue 27 Nov 2012, 6:53 pm

Finn for Broad, Bell for Bairstow. If Bairstow had made runs in the last match I'd keep him in but as it is Bell hasn't done enough to warrant being dropped . This is all assuming he comes back to India in time of course, and that no-one comes down with Dehli-belly between now and next Wednesday.

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Post by skyeman Thu 29 Nov 2012, 7:13 pm

Finn seems to be OK now after a good showing in the warm-up game. Big decision looming, they have stuck with Broad before and he has repaid them but this time may be different.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 7:17 pm

If Finn's fit, and he looks as though he is, he simply has to play. He can give us that extra edge on a flat Kolkata pitch with that 90mph+ pace and make England have four bowlers who all have the potential to take match-winning spells. I'm getting really really optimistic about Wednesday.

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Post by Mike Selig Thu 29 Nov 2012, 7:47 pm

Noises from the England camp suggest very much that Broad will be dropped for Finn IMO.

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Post by Hibbz Thu 29 Nov 2012, 8:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:If Finn's fit, and he looks as though he is, he simply has to play. He can give us that extra edge on a flat Kolkata pitch with that 90mph+ pace and make England have four bowlers who all have the potential to take match-winning spells. I'm getting really really optimistic about Wednesday.

As opposed to your normal state of reticent hope?

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Post by Duty281 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:02 pm

Hibbz wrote:
Duty281 wrote:If Finn's fit, and he looks as though he is, he simply has to play. He can give us that extra edge on a flat Kolkata pitch with that 90mph+ pace and make England have four bowlers who all have the potential to take match-winning spells. I'm getting really really optimistic about Wednesday.

As opposed to your normal state of reticent hope?

Well Hibbz, you know me. I'm normally quite a pessimistic follower, that's my problem, I doubt England too much.

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Post by skyeman Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Hibbz wrote:
Duty281 wrote:If Finn's fit, and he looks as though he is, he simply has to play. He can give us that extra edge on a flat Kolkata pitch with that 90mph+ pace and make England have four bowlers who all have the potential to take match-winning spells. I'm getting really really optimistic about Wednesday.

As opposed to your normal state of reticent hope?

Well Hibbz, you know me. I'm normally quite a pessimistic follower, that's my problem, I doubt England too much.


laughing

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Post by Hibbz Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:20 pm

It's not your problem per se Duty but the fact you always say England will win whether you think it or not means I take your opinion when it comes to all matters England with a pinch of salt.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:29 pm

Hibbz wrote:It's not your problem per se Duty but the fact you always say England will win whether you think it or not means I take your opinion when it comes to all matters England with a pinch of salt.

I don't think England will always win, I predicted a 2-1 series win this time round, not a 4-0 win.

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Post by Hibbz Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:45 pm

Ha ha yeah I'll give you that pal. Fingers crossed for two more "results" pitches if nothing else. Failing that continuing failures for all bar the genius batsmen from each side.


Last edited by Hibbz on Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by GSC Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:49 pm

Finns a risk to reinjury. Feel thy might retain Samit, a 3rd spin option might come in handy
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Post by skyeman Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:51 pm

Hibbz wrote:Ha ha yeah I'll give you that pal. Fingers crossed for two more "results" pitches if nothing else. Failing that continuing failures for all bar the genius batsmen from each side.

Intrigued to see Skyeman's Vicky Pollard comment has disappeared.


laughing

Aye, i thought enough was enough Hug

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Post by skyeman Thu 29 Nov 2012, 9:53 pm

And now, your comment has gone pmsl.

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Post by ShankyCricket Mon 03 Dec 2012, 9:37 pm

Mike Selig wrote:
ShankyCricket wrote:
Mike Selig wrote:
ShankyCricket wrote:
Why would you play Bairstow ahead of Patel? Is he a better player of spin?

Based purely on how they played in this test match, yes.

However I'm not fussed either way.
Didn't watch a lot of Bairstow's batting. Did he play well?

Not particularly but he looked a lot more competent than during the T20WC. Poor mode of dismissal just before the break it has to be said. I just thought Patel looked a bit all over the place really.

To be honest I don't think whoever you pick between Bairstow and Patel is going to make that much difference. It's all about Cook, Pietersen, Trott (needs runs) and perhaps Prior.
I think Compton has looked alright. Just needs to convert the starts. I fear Cook is due a bad game and also don't remember KP ever scoring two hundreds in a row (not a criticism at all). The others really need to stand up. Compton, Trott and Prior. Anything from Bell in the subcontinent is a bonus as far as I'm concerned. Same applies for Bairstow. I think Patel deserves one more Test based on his warm up performances.

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Post by invisiblecoolers Mon 03 Dec 2012, 10:03 pm

skyeman wrote:Will Panesar now have the mental edge over the Indians that Ajmal had over England. Or was it just this pitch that suited him?

Panesar will soon find it out in the 3rd test, I am sorry for the him but Indians love to Target a specific bowler who had undue success in the previous match, watch out for Sachin vs Panesar contest, if Sehwag survives till Panesar comes to bowl its gonna be fun to watch. Very Happy

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 03 Dec 2012, 10:11 pm

ShankyCricket wrote: don't remember KP ever scoring two hundreds in a row (not a criticism at all).

Sri Lanka series in 2006, West Indies in 2007, NewZealand/SA summer 2008

Its been a while (unless you count the consecutive ODI centuries he got in Pakistan)


Id be much happier with Bairstow over Patel, although if it is looking like a flat deck they will want the extra bowling option even if it is useless. I really dont see them risking 5 out and out bowlers and theres zero chance that either of the two frontline spinners getting dropped after events in the first two matches.
So the battles are between Bell and Bairstow and Finn and Broad. I suspect only one of the kids will get his place. Its a pity for Bairstow he he didnt make runs when he had the chance to stake a claim.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 03 Dec 2012, 10:13 pm

invisiblecoolers wrote:
skyeman wrote:Will Panesar now have the mental edge over the Indians that Ajmal had over England. Or was it just this pitch that suited him?

Panesar will soon find it out in the 3rd test, I am sorry for the him but Indians love to Target a specific bowler who had undue success in the previous match, watch out for Sachin vs Panesar contest, if Sehwag survives till Panesar comes to bowl its gonna be fun to watch. Very Happy

the first thing Sachin will be targeting is double figures ... then we can start talking about him taking bowlers apart.

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Post by invisiblecoolers Mon 03 Dec 2012, 10:19 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
invisiblecoolers wrote:
skyeman wrote:Will Panesar now have the mental edge over the Indians that Ajmal had over England. Or was it just this pitch that suited him?

Panesar will soon find it out in the 3rd test, I am sorry for the him but Indians love to Target a specific bowler who had undue success in the previous match, watch out for Sachin vs Panesar contest, if Sehwag survives till Panesar comes to bowl its gonna be fun to watch. Very Happy

the first thing Sachin will be targeting is double figures ... then we can start talking about him taking bowlers apart.

If Sach cannot achieve the target you set for him he will have to retire the end of the match and I guess he would be sensible enough to do it. thumbsup

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 03 Dec 2012, 10:27 pm

invisiblecoolers wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:
invisiblecoolers wrote:
skyeman wrote:Will Panesar now have the mental edge over the Indians that Ajmal had over England. Or was it just this pitch that suited him?

Panesar will soon find it out in the 3rd test, I am sorry for the him but Indians love to Target a specific bowler who had undue success in the previous match, watch out for Sachin vs Panesar contest, if Sehwag survives till Panesar comes to bowl its gonna be fun to watch. Very Happy

the first thing Sachin will be targeting is double figures ... then we can start talking about him taking bowlers apart.

If Sach cannot achieve the target you set for him he will have to retire the end of the match and I guess he would be sensible enough to do it. thumbsup

Youd think so...it would leave him without a score over 27 in nearly a year of test cricket and nearly two years since his last century....not to mention a huge gap till their next test series. Its kinda sad to see two legends looking like theyll go out having hung on a bit too long.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:02 am

The news from the England camp seems to indicate that Finn is fit and will replace Broad tomorrow. Remember, the Test starts half an hour earlier at 03:30 GMT.

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Post by GSC Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:04 am

Eh, when you only play 2 seamers they really need to hold up their end.
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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:14 am

Its a big ask on the lad if the pitch isnt offering much for the spinners. Still hes been around long enough now that he should have had time to get strong (that was always their excuse for not picking him) and able to bowl 30 overs in a day if it does come to that.
If they do pick him it shows England are really gunning to win this rather than settle for a drawn series.

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Post by GSC Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:17 am

I think its more to do with Broad isn't in any form at all.
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Post by msp83 Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:22 am

The importance of Patel's 26 is something that has to be registered. Despite Kevin Pietersen playing one of his match turning knocks and Alastair Cook continued to demonstrate his masterful control in these conditions, England's important first innings lead was not something that could on its own set up the win. Patel's knock played an important part in England gaining such a lead. Had that lead been 40-50 less, there would have been far less pressure on India in the 2nd innings.
So Patel stays in for me, Bairstow has to go out for Bell, I am not very sure that's the right call, but I don't see England leaving Bell out.
Finn for Broad is another change I would make, and unlike the Bell v Bairstow situation, there is a stronger case for this. Broad hasn't picked up a wicket in the 2 tests, he continued to look down on pace, and gave away far too many runs for comfort. Finn has the pace and can gain some bounce on any track. He did very well in ODIs in India last year.

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Post by Mike Selig Tue 04 Dec 2012, 9:40 am

Whilst I appreciate Patel made 26, it was a pretty poor innings, with a lot of runs from mishits, and his footwork very undecisive. Bairstow looked more comfortable against both seam and (unexpectedly) spin, but played a poor shot just before lunch, and didn't get the runs realistically to force his way back in.

To be honest, I don't have a strong view as to who England pick at 5 and 6 (I think Bell has the ability to score more runs than the other two even in these conditions, but whether he will...), but with nobody performing well so far, I guess it stays with the men in possession - at the moment that's Patel and Bell.

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