Ponting gets his timing right ?

So at last one of Australia's greatest ever batsmen accepts what many have been saying , that his powers are diminishing and the time is right to finish.
Tomorrow the Perth Test against SA will be his 168th and last - equalling Steve Waugh's record.

It is probably good timimg : if Australia win , he leaves them back atop the ICC rankings. If they lose , they will have even more reason to look to the future.

Whatever the result , I hope he can go out with a personal performance befitting his fine career.

Yes, it was sort of a shock to hear but then again 'we' all mostly thought it could be on the cards.

Well done Ricky! He has served Australia so well and it was a delight to watch him play.

I wish him all the luck in his last match starting tomorrow.

Ricky Ponting, although having a pretty bad spell, has still averaged over 52 in scoring 13,000+ runs.

Legend is often brandied about but i believe that Ponting has deserved the right to be deemed a legend of the game.

Best of luck in the future to him

Well done Ricky, you've retired at the right time. Quite probably the second best batsman of the last 25 years just behind Brian Lara.

A fantastic batsman and leader of one of the most dominant sides in history

Duty281 wrote:Well done Ricky, you've retired at the right time. Quite probably the second best batsman of the last 25 years just behind Brian Lara.

Tendulkar?

Anyway, my rating of Ponting as a batsman puts him in a group with Kallis and Dravid, as undoubtedly great batsmen but perhaps just short of the legendary status of Lara and Sachin. As a captain - well, he led the most successful side ever at the end of their period of domination, but he did lose 2 Ashes series in England and one in Australia, the first of those while still armed with Warne and McGrath. Hard to judge whether he was a particularly good captain or just fortunate enough to be leading an outstanding team. I'm sure we will be exploring this in a few weeks on the Hall of Fame thread.

Well done Punter on a great career though, and for choosing the time of your own exit.

Any side would struggle given the quality and number of players who retired in a short window.

An absolute legend that belongs in the same bracket as Lara and Sachin, for me. Some astonishing innings down the years, and always putting the team first.

The game is a lesser place for his retirement, and I have to admit I'd hoped he would have one last Ashes hurrah...the perfect pantomime villain and the embodiment of what a series like the Ashes should be all about.

Thanks for the memories, Punter, you were the most admirable of foes.

GSC

No argument from me on that - any team that has to replace Glenn Mcrath with Mitchell ('he bowls to the left, he bowls to the right...') Johnson and Shane Warne with ... well, I don't think they've found a replacement yet, is going to struggle. Knock out half of the top order batsmen at the same time and it is no surprise that the Aussies fell off their perch.

As I said, I don't know whether Punter can be considered a great captain or whether he was more just a captain of a great team - in the right place at the right time to benefit from the development by his predecessors. I don't recall him being particularly innovative as a captain, but then that wasn't what the situation with that team needed. Maybe just a 'steady as she goes' captain was enough.

A magnificent player. As Fists said, always put the team first (would never see him play the sort of knock Gambhir played in the last test for instance), and undoubtedly belongs with Lara and Tendulkar as the leading batsmen of his era

Probably the right time to go (Sachin take note...), though the timing surprises me somewhat. I'm slightly worried the final test is going to become a "Ricky Ponting swansong" affair (much like Steve Waugh's retirement series). I expect he's trying to get the Australian team into a "let's do it for Ricky" frame of mind, so it may work.

Great player, OK captain.

And watching him in his prime playing a pull or hook shot was one of the game's little joys.

What a legend, one of the greats of the game

The big 3 batsmen of "living legends" are Tendulkar Ponting and Lara, and really Kallis too should be up there. One arguably retired too soon, Pontiong couldve retired a long time ago, one shouldve retired by now...Kallis looks like he could go on forever.

Thanks Ricky. For everything.

Lets hope the cricketing gods are generous enough to send him out the way he, every Australian and nearly every cricket supporter (ill forgive the Saffer supporters this time) in the world would like to see him go...as a winner.

One last ton Ricky, one last ton... you bloody bewdy!

He was a fantastic servant to Australian cricket.

I personally feel he could have continued - at least an in form Ponting could have been an asset in England.

The selectors will now have some thinking to do to fill the number 4 slot.

dummy_half wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Well done Ricky, you've retired at the right time. Quite probably the second best batsman of the last 25 years just behind Brian Lara.

Tendulkar?

Anyway, my rating of Ponting as a batsman puts him in a group with Kallis and Dravid, as undoubtedly great batsmen but perhaps just short of the legendary status of Lara and Sachin. As a captain - well, he led the most successful side ever at the end of their period of domination, but he did lose 2 Ashes series in England and one in Australia, the first of those while still armed with Warne and McGrath. Hard to judge whether he was a particularly good captain or just fortunate enough to be leading an outstanding team. I'm sure we will be exploring this in a few weeks on the Hall of Fame thread.

Well done Punter on a great career though, and for choosing the time of your own exit.

4th best of the last 25 years, behind Lara, Ponting and Kallis.

Determined and a team man.

The best number three since Bradman is as good as you can get.

If we all chip in a reckon we could raise enough to get Gary Pratt flown out in time for the end of the match presentations

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:If we all chip in a reckon we could raise enough to get Gary Pratt flown out in time for the end of the match presentations

He would appreciate that i am sure He has mellowed now though.

Short answer to the question raised in this thread is yes. Got the timing of his retirement just right.

Great player, but I rate Dravid,Kallis, Sachin n Lara ahead of him.

invisiblecoolers wrote:Great player, but I rate Dravid,Kallis, Sachin n Lara ahead of him.

Not a bad crowd for Punter to be in is it. Personally I'd say its:

Sachin
Kallis
Ponting
Dravid
Lara

In terms of greatness:

Tendulkar, Lara, Kallis, Ponting and Dravid have to be judged on thier performances during the 1990s.

This was the era dubbed as 'The Bowling Era' in recent times.

During the 1990s only 4 batsmen averaged over 50, who scored over 2000 Test runs.

These batsmen where Tendulkar, Lara, Stephen Waugh and Graham Gooch.

Ponting, Kallis and Dravid all averaged in the 40s.

So it shows that at their very best, Tendulkar and Lara are considerably better than the other 3.

That's my view on.

Tendulkar/Lara

Ponting/Kallis/Dravid

That's not really fair though, because Tendulkar, Waugh, Lara and Gooch all debuted significantly before Ponting, Kallis and Dravid, so were in their prime by the 2nd half of the 90s whereas the latter 3 were still finding their feet (Ponting only made his move to no 3 in 2001 IIRC; certainly Kallis's early test career was very average (but so was S. Waugh's).

My personal opinion is that Ponting was a great batsman, short of Tendulkar for sheer volume (although I maintain Ponting played more match-winning innings - e.g. quite a few hundreds in 4th innings yielding successful chases or saves, and generally performed better in "knock-out" cricket - e.g. 2003 and 2011 WC matches), but certainly in front of Lara for consistency. Kallis is more consistent than anyone, but more rarely produced those game-changing innings.

Also, at the risk of being controversial, Ponting was a very good to great captain. You don't win successive world cups without losing a match without it: don't forget in 2003 he lost Shane Warne on the eve of the tournament, and Gillespie in the middle; in 2007 he didn't have Brett Lee, at the time the world's premier one-day bowler. I think a lot of people are influenced by his relatively poor ashes record, but his overall captaincy record is second to none.

For me, there is little to choose between Tendulkar, Lara, and Ponting. May be I will give the edge to Tendulkar because of longevity and one-day records. But I also think, Kallis is very much under-appreciated, although he averages well above all the three and will perhaps hold all records currently held by Tendulkar in tests.

But lets not forget that Capatin Cook discovered Australia, without him Ponting would be nothing.
Joking aside will he match these guys test acheivements? Doubtful, if nothing else England players tend to get pushed to retire at the first sign of creaking whereas most of the greats have had late career dips, followed by a breif resurgance, as part of an extended decline into retirement. Nor will have have the limited over record to back it up.

Whilst he had the best winning record in the history of the game (with a bit of luck here and there which is part of the game at any level) let's not forget he also had a spot of back luck losing that 2nd Test at Edgbaston in 2005 when McGrath had his 'bad karma' injury.

That comment really annoyed me and then he did it again... more than once! Someone better gag him next year.

I'd agree with Gerry's post above... below Tendulkar/Lara and on par with Kallis/Dravid.

Lara
Tendulkar
Ponting
Kallis
Dravid

Of those 5, I go with:

Tendulkar (longevity, ave of 55, awesomeness at his best in the late 90s and 2009 and '10, 100 international 100s, first man to score an ODI double)
Lara (Massive innings, unstoppable when he got going)
Kallis (Ave of 57 + the bowling)
Ponting (Best competitor of the lot)
Dravid (The Wall)

Why mention Kallis' bowling when we're talking batting?

Stella wrote:Why mention Kallis' bowling when we're talking batting?

Because it makes it even more amazing he can bat for two days after bowling 20overs.plus it means he has a split training load and more to study before each match and plays under extra pressure.

I've taken plenty of stick over the years from mates for this, but to be honest, I admire Ponting as a player more than any other in my lifetime, and think he was the greatest competitor I've seen on the cricket field.

I remember his phenomenal run between, say, 2002 and 2007. At his absolute peak, which reached a zenith with that 5-0 series win against England in the 2006 / 2007 series, I felt sure he'd sew up the records for most test runs and most test centuries by the time he was done. Alas, he found the going a little tougher once Australia lost a glut of similarly wonderful match-winners (Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist, Lee, Hayden, Langer, Martyn etc) all within a year or so of each other, and Sachin had his Indian summer in 2009 / 2010 to keep the chasing pack at bay, but history should still be massively impressed by Ponting's achievements.

I'll miss seeing him play, that's for sure. His twin hundreds in his 100th test was a sensational feat, as was his magnificent match-saving 156 in the Old Trafford test of the 2005 Ashes series. His 142 at Adelaide helped Australia turn that remarkable second test of the 2006 / 2007 Ashes installment in to what had seemed like an impossible win. Then of course there was that fabulous unbeaten hundred in the 2003 World Cup final. The unbeaten 118 which spared Aussie blushes in the face of a possible, earth-shattering test defeat to Bangladesh in 2006 - the man regularly turned matches on their head and could always be relied upon when the chips were down.

A lot of poms will have enjoyed his struggles over the past two or three years. Personally, I didn't. But I'm sure he'll get a grand send off, which is the least he deserves. To my mind, only Greg Chappell can rival Ponting for the title of Australia's finest test batsman since the Don, and it's hard to get a more glittering reference than that.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that he goes out with a century, but a king pair still won't detract from what has been a wonderful, wonderful career. Thanks for everything, Punter.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Stella wrote:Why mention Kallis' bowling when we're talking batting?

Because it makes it even more amazing he can bat for two days after bowling 20overs.plus it means he has a split training load and more to study before each match and plays under extra pressure.

Or, Kallis has never had the burden of captaincy. Best to concentrate on their batting capabilities when discussing batting.

Ricky Ponting has never been in my list of most liked players. I actively disliked him at times, and often considered him arrogant and hyper aggressive.
But he is a player to be respected every bit. He has been among the finest batsmen of his times, a real match winner on his day, and possessed some of the superb quality strokes against short pitched bowling. He has the stats of a champion in all formats of the game. As a captain he wasn't as classy as he was with the bat, but he was a pretty decent captain, remember the likes of Brett Lee crediting Ponting's captaincy for helping him discover his real range as a fast bowler.
He has played some real fine knocks over the years, but his match saving hundred in the 2005 ashes and his hundred at Bangalure in 2008 are standouts for me.
Farewell, Ricky Ponting.

Gregers wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:Great player, but I rate Dravid,Kallis, Sachin n Lara ahead of him.

Not a bad crowd for Punter to be in is it. Personally I'd say its:

Not at all Gregs, he is a legend of the game specially the modern era.

Its true thou, Kallis and Dravid get less credit compared to Ponting, in my view Dravid has faced more skillfull opponents and bowlers like Australians and Saffas compared to Kallis and Ponting and hence he peks in the higher order among the three some.

1]Lara/Tendulkar [Equal]

2]Dravid, Kallis, Ponting [in respective order]

3]Viv Richards,Sehwag, Smith and co.

Mike Selig wrote:

Also, at the risk of being controversial, Ponting was a very good to great captain. You don't win successive world cups without losing a match without it: don't forget in 2003 he lost Shane Warne on the eve of the tournament, and Gillespie in the middle; in 2007 he didn't have Brett Lee, at the time the world's premier one-day bowler. I think a lot of people are influenced by his relatively poor ashes record, but his overall captaincy record is second to none.

He is a great captain but well behind Steve Waugh , Mark Taylor and Allan Border.

Ponting lead the most talented and accomplished team left to him by Steve Waugh, he didn't construct the team, most of his team members where a veteran already and he just capitalized on that.

Gimme a team of

Openers
Hayden
Langer

Mark Waugh/Damien Martyn
Steve Waugh/M Hussey
Adam Gilchrist - Keeper
Bowlers
Shane Warne
Glen Mcgrath
Brett Lee
Gillespie/S Clark
Johnson/Siddle/Hilfenhaus/Starc/Bollinger

Fill me in that Vacant Slot, I will win the match watching it from home doing nothing ,

When Ponting started to lose the legends one by one his performance as captain suffered so badly, how many Ashes did he lose , in my view M Clarke is a better captain than Ponting [however he learned a lot of trades from the ex captain], Clarke had an ordinary team when he started as captain and he is making it world class again.

Captaincy at times can be only as good as the team, Ricky was nothing exceptional in Captaincy, just lucky enough to have the most talented bunch of cricketers on his side.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Gregers wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:Great player, but I rate Dravid,Kallis, Sachin n Lara ahead of him.

Not a bad crowd for Punter to be in is it. Personally I'd say its:

Not at all Gregs, he is a legend of the game specially the modern era.

Its true thou, Kallis and Dravid get less credit compared to Ponting, in my view Dravid has faced more skillfull opponents and bowlers like Australians and Saffas compared to Kallis and Ponting and hence he peks in the higher order among the three some.

1]Lara/Tendulkar [Equal]

2]Dravid, Kallis, Ponting [in respective order]

3]Viv Richards,Sehwag, Smith and co.

Did you ever watch V Richards bat?

Many times.

Good call Stella, he'd be right up there amongst the best for sure.

No farewell century for Punter, then. Never mind, fairytales are rare.

Goodbye Punter, it's been a pleasure. One of the true greats.

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:

Also, at the risk of being controversial, Ponting was a very good to great captain. You don't win successive world cups without losing a match without it: don't forget in 2003 he lost Shane Warne on the eve of the tournament, and Gillespie in the middle; in 2007 he didn't have Brett Lee, at the time the world's premier one-day bowler. I think a lot of people are influenced by his relatively poor ashes record, but his overall captaincy record is second to none.

He is a great captain but well behind Steve Waugh , Mark Taylor and Allan Border.

Ponting lead the most talented and accomplished team left to him by Steve Waugh, he didn't construct the team, most of his team members where a veteran already and he just capitalized on that.

Gimme a team of

Openers
Hayden
Langer

Mark Waugh/Damien Martyn
Steve Waugh/M Hussey
Adam Gilchrist - Keeper
Bowlers
Shane Warne
Glen Mcgrath
Brett Lee
Gillespie/S Clark
Johnson/Siddle/Hilfenhaus/Starc/Bollinger

Fill me in that Vacant Slot, I will win the match watching it from home doing nothing ,

I respectfully disagree. Completely. For a start you wouldn't make 141 in a WC final from home doing nothing. Or score twin hundreds in your 100th test match including a ton in the 4th innings to set up the chase. Moreover it takes character to manage all of those great players. I don't see why Steve Waugh gets so much credit (in spite of mostly having the same team as Ponting) but Ponting doesn't. Winning successive World cups without losing (or indeed in the 2nd case looking like losing) a match is an outstanding achievement, no matter how good your side is.

I think Ponting was a great "lead by example" type of captain. His results in the ODI cups alone show that.

As a tactician , I would not mark him so highly ...Taylor was far better in my view , but Taylor was exceptional. I also suspect Clarke has more flair. But in fairness , Ponting did what he needed ,to win , and while he had the stars to back him , he won. Regularly.
Later , perhaps he struggled a bit with a team of mortals. But I'm not sure too many people would have done any better.

Anyway , no one can argue with his status as a batsman.

alfie wrote:I think Ponting was a great "lead by example" type of captain. His results in the ODI cups alone show that.

As a tactician , I would not mark him so highly ...Taylor was far better in my view , but Taylor was exceptional. I also suspect Clarke has more flair. But in fairness , Ponting did what he needed ,to win , and while he had the stars to back him , he won. Regularly.
Later , perhaps he struggled a bit with a team of mortals. But I'm not sure too many people would have done any better.

Anyway , no one can argue with his status as a batsman.

I agree, almost completely. But someone having more flair doesn't make them a better captain necessarily. In fact, that is an interesting discussion in itself: how do you judge a great captain? Ponting got a hell of a lot out of one of the great sides (if not THE great side) in history - my point is he actually took them to even a different level than under Waugh - surely he deserves credit for that?

True ...far to early to judge Clarke. As I say , I suspect he has some attributes Ponting may have lacked , but whether that will enable him to achieve anything like the latter's results remains to be seen...of course , in the absence of a Warne...McGrath ...Gilchrist that is a tall order !

Interesting question about what constitutes a great captain - perhaps a separate thread , though ? I think I'll keep this one to bidding Ricky P a respectful farewell. Pity he couldn't finish on a higher note , but he did make more than the Don in his last innings

I've engaged in the debate over which modern batsman is the greatest in this post - https://www.606v2.com/t38023-the-great-debate

Would be interested to hear what people think.

On comparing Aussie captains: I think there is a tendency at least amongst pundits to say 'attacking captaincy = good', 'defensive captaincy = bad'. I'm not sure this is right: Clarke is the most 'attacking' captain around but you could well accuse him of over-attacking/ thinking up strange ideas at times. Meanwhile, Ponting was pretty defensive but it was right for him to be so.

Of course, most people could have managed the great Aussie team well. But to achieve the consistency that they did some credit must go to Ponting, who kept them at high levels for such a long period of time.

Great player indeed but a great captain? Certainly not. With a weaker team at his disposal, his captaincy was quite frankly "exposed". At times, he didn't look like he could set a field for a spinner in the post Warne era.

Shelsey93 wrote:I've engaged in the debate over which modern batsman is the greatest in this post - https://www.606v2.com/t38023-the-great-debate

Would be interested to hear what people think.

On comparing Aussie captains: I think there is a tendency at least amongst pundits to say 'attacking captaincy = good', 'defensive captaincy = bad'. I'm not sure this is right: Clarke is the most 'attacking' captain around but you could well accuse him of over-attacking/ thinking up strange ideas at times. Meanwhile, Ponting was pretty defensive but it was right for him to be so.

Of course, most people could have managed the great Aussie team well. But to achieve the consistency that they did some credit must go to Ponting, who kept them at high levels for such a long period of time.

Very good post Shelsey

ShankyCricket on Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:02 pm
Great player indeed but a great captain? Certainly not. With a weaker team at his disposal, his captaincy was quite frankly "exposed". At times, he didn't look like he could set a field for a spinner in the post Warne era.

Tats the exact point I am trying to make as well.

Mike Selig wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Mike Selig wrote:

Also, at the risk of being controversial, Ponting was a very good to great captain. You don't win successive world cups without losing a match without it: don't forget in 2003 he lost Shane Warne on the eve of the tournament, and Gillespie in the middle; in 2007 he didn't have Brett Lee, at the time the world's premier one-day bowler. I think a lot of people are influenced by his relatively poor ashes record, but his overall captaincy record is second to none.

He is a great captain but well behind Steve Waugh , Mark Taylor and Allan Border.

Ponting lead the most talented and accomplished team left to him by Steve Waugh, he didn't construct the team, most of his team members where a veteran already and he just capitalized on that.

Gimme a team of

Openers
Hayden
Langer

Mark Waugh/Damien Martyn
Steve Waugh/M Hussey
Adam Gilchrist - Keeper
Bowlers
Shane Warne
Glen Mcgrath
Brett Lee
Gillespie/S Clark
Johnson/Siddle/Hilfenhaus/Starc/Bollinger

Fill me in that Vacant Slot, I will win the match watching it from home doing nothing ,

I respectfully disagree. Completely. For a start you wouldn't make 141 in a WC final from home doing nothing. Or score twin hundreds in your 100th test match including a ton in the 4th innings to set up the chase. Moreover it takes character to manage all of those great players. I don't see why Steve Waugh gets so much credit (in spite of mostly having the same team as Ponting) but Ponting doesn't. Winning successive World cups without losing (or indeed in the 2nd case looking like losing) a match is an outstanding achievement, no matter how good your side is.

Well i do respect your opinion even though its completely opposite , but Mike many could have won World Cup's with that team, I am not saying there should be no credit be given to Ponting but way too much credit is given for no reason, Strauss won the Ashes partly due to his captaincy than having unbelievable English team, Ponting could do nothing special in 2011 World Cup when he had an Ordinary team, the same ordinary team has rose in ranking under Clark's captaincy.

Ponting a great bat? Yes
Ponting a great Captain? Nope, but Yes a good captain

Pontings achievements make him a great captain. Beyond just the World Cups, the unbeaten streaks in test cricket.

I think three Ashes series lost does cast major doubt on claims for Ponting to be a "great" captain. Certainly he had many achievements as a captain, including the World Cups, but I would suggest something a bit less than great is in order. "Great" in the sense of "excellent" - I could agree, but "great" in the sense of really standing out in history as one of the top few - eg in top half dozen captains of all time - not for me.

Well, I call him very-good-to-great. I again completely disagree with invisiblecoolers: I feel Ponting doesn't get enough credit for his achievements with the great Australian side (which exceeded even S. Waugh's, and everyone thinks he was great), and too much stick for presiding over the inevitable decline which followed, and during which his record wasn't all that bad (and still compared favourably with say Border's overall record) - it included the end of another hot streak, and a win in South Africa for example.