2012 - Has Boxing finally reached rock bottom????

A 47 year old fighting and still near the top of the sport.....

A 40 year old slob of a cruiser fighting for the greatest prize in sport....

Another Country sanctioning a fight banned by it's own........

A guy who assaulted a Man...spat in another's face.....and then got done for brawling in public..all in the same weekend.....Not getting any real punishment.........

Very little Boxing on offer for fans who can't pay much money out in subscriptions...

More belts than ever before....Diamond this... inter this and that...

Disgraceful decisions being overlooked..because it's just Boxing and it happens all the time these days......

Guess boxing can only go up from here right???

Two average brothers continuing to make Boxing look pathetically easy in the blue riband division..

2012 the worst year ever......you BETCHA!!!

Looking forward to the Tyson Fury fight Truss?

Stop watching.

"stop watching"

Go away you little twerp....and stop wasting space..

Don't mind Tyson Fury Steffan...much improved fighter..

stop watching.

Picked the wrong time to post a thread....

Wait till the kids are in bad..

Go away

Say's something when steffan is the most intelligent poster on here bar the op....

Must be attracting the wrong crowd these days!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Say's something when steffan is the most intelligent poster on here bar the op....

Il go for the *Take it as a compliment option*

Cheers Truss

Hey you haven't even mentioned the doping disgraces this year truss. But hey as long as there are still boxers willing to go life or death like berto and the ghost, for the whisper of a fight with mayweather, then to me boxing is still in rude health. Both those guys took years off their lives, one good eye between the two of them, for our entertainment. And hell my favorite currently active boxer cotto, gets in the ring in a few hours. Things are alright from where I'm sitting right now.

You know I love you Steff............

You're probably right Jimdig.......But for me Boxing needs kickstarting.. just something to get it's respect back..........

If you're a kid like Alex maybe you love it and fairplay....but when you've tasted a great Burgundy...Beaujolais nouveau just doesn't hit the spot!!

All I mean is if you're hating it so much why are you still watching?

I hate the politics kiddo........and it's being ruined by them

Love the sport.......Forgotten more than you know kid.........

Do you love it more than Furys stupid comments? (which, by the way, are moronic)

Fury is stupid.......whole-hearted though...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Love the sport.......Forgotten more than you know kid.........

Wish you'd at least act as though you did...

That's hurtful.........but I forgive you..

Boxing is in a constant funny funk. Jones (to some extent) took up the mantel from tyson, oscar from jones, mayweather and manny from oscar. it's always presumed dead, whereas it continues to roll on.

And at all of the peaks of the boxers i have just mentioned, my favourite boxer was someone else (as is probably the case of most on here i'd guess), I just love a fight. Do we need the populist approval?? Probably but that to me is nearly the biggest fault in boxing, it creates the acceptablility of all the terrible things in boxing, all for the mighty dollor.

Fights with proven dopers going ahead is beyond disgraceful. It puts the game past the toliet, straight into the sweur.

Doping is a strange one......widespread but few get caught....

The ones that do are the tip of the iceberg....

With you here Truss.

Drugs, an alphabet soup of titles, a number of truly horrid decisions and a lack of super fights make this a standout year.

Plus, 50 Cent aka fiddy now has some degree of influence....

Stop watching then!!

Find I am more interested in the domestic stuff these days than the supposed big fights in America. Won't be watching next weeks fight between Manny and JMM partly because I can't be bothered to stay up but mostly because if the absolute shambles surrounding it. Don't want to watch Marquez get stiffed again.

Just one of many examples of the slap dash way boxing is run.

It's like the rant from the film Network.

"I don't have to tell you things are bad"

"It's time to get mad"

Agreed...........

TumblingDice wrote:It's like the rant from the film Network.

"I don't have to tell you things are bad"

"It's time to get mad"

I'M A HUMAN BEING GOD DAMNIT, MY LIFE HAS VALUE!!!

There are still honest hard working fighters out there and good fights happening, but yes 2011 & 2012 have been very poor years for the sport when you consider the big fights that never materialise, the increasing amount of shocking judging decisions, the lack of quality at heavyweight, the further marginalization of the sport in Britain with the advent if BoxNation & PrimeTime and the increasing amount of drug related incidents and the sports ridiculously poor ability not only to govern testing properly, but also to mete out any effective punishment - and that's before you get into the lack of cohesion due to the amount of sanctioning bodies and the ridiculousness of the amount of silver, diamond, interim, intercontinental etc titles that dilute the sport so that unscrupulous organisations can gain more cash in sanctioning fees. I think decade on decade the sport is slipping further from the public consciousness, and I don't really see how that is gonna be reversed - things are too far gone. We'll all keep watching though!

If we all went to our windows and shouted, maybe the WBC, HBO, Top Rank, Golden Boy and Frank Warren would take note.

Probably not Frank.

He'd charge us £10-£15 a month for the privilege.

TumblingDice wrote:If we all went to our windows and shouted, maybe the WBC, HBO, Top Rank, Golden Boy and Frank Warren would take note.

Probably not Frank.

He'd charge us £10-£15 a month for the privilege.

He'd skin a turd for a pound that bloke.

A 47 year old fighting and still near the top of the sport..... Good on him.......

A 40 year old slob of a cruiser fighting for the greatest prize in sport....
Is it really still the greatest prize in sport?.... Sadly it no longer is.....

Another Country sanctioning a fight banned by it's own........
A fight that most posters on here wanted to see....... so what if a fight has to happen under another sanctioning body, is it really that bad......?

A guy who assaulted a Man...spat in another's face.....and then got done for brawling in public..all in the same weekend.....Not getting any real punishment.........
I believe he has been banned by the BBBofC has he not....? But then again it isn't the fault of the boxers that there isn't ONE governing body overseeing the sports regulations, but that problem is ongoing and did not occur in 2012......

Very little Boxing on offer for fans who can't pay much money out in subscriptions...
Got to agree with you here but, the underling problem is boxing is no longer a mainstream sport, if it was the sponsors and advertisers would be happy to buy into it, just as they are with the football. If boxing was still a mainstream sport we would get to watch more than Tyson Fury on C5. The days of Mike Tyson & Nigel Benn etc on ITV have long since gone. Sad but true......

More belts than ever before....Diamond this... inter this and that...
You forgot the silver thingy they have now......

Disgraceful decisions being overlooked..because it's just Boxing and it happens all the time these days......
C'mon, it's been happening for a very, very long time. Sad but true, let us not forget the influence the Mafia once had on the outcome of a lot of fights...

Guess boxing can only go up from here right???
You forgot the .............

Two average brothers continuing to make Boxing look pathetically easy in the blue riband division..
They won't last forever and then it will get more interesting again.....

2012 the worst year ever......you BETCHA!!! All in all 2012 aint that different to 2011.......



[i]

The Klit's most certainly are non average. Both definite top 20 for me.

They are average fighters in a s**thouse age..............

Top 20 because of their longevity.....But hey there is a case to be made for Ottke's greatness....

After all look at his record...

A half dead Lewis beat Vitali.......and in his prime..

Lumbering_Jack wrote:The Klit's most certainly are non average. Both definite top 20 for me.

People who say they are average have no clue whatsoever.

They are average....

It's an opinion that I share with Truss, the general consensus may say otherwise but i'm unwavering in my view that they would merely be contenders in the majority of previous eras. During the golden age they would be seen no differently to the Nortons or Lyles of the world while they wouldn't stand out during the times of Holmes, Tyson or Lewis.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It's an opinion that I share with Truss, the general consensus may say otherwise but i'm unwavering in my view that they would merely be contenders in the majority of previous eras. During the golden age they would be seen no differently to the Nortons or Lyles of the world while they wouldn't stand out during the times of Holmes, Tyson or Lewis.

Pointless argument because the k bros were not around to box ali or holmes etc so saying who would win is pointless as no one would ever know. K-bro fans would say the K's would win whilst other fighter's fans would say the other would win.

It may be pointless you too but based on achievements and ability I don't rate them particularly highly.

victorgarco wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It's an opinion that I share with Truss, the general consensus may say otherwise but i'm unwavering in my view that they would merely be contenders in the majority of previous eras. During the golden age they would be seen no differently to the Nortons or Lyles of the world while they wouldn't stand out during the times of Holmes, Tyson or Lewis.

Pointless argument because the k bros were not around to box ali or holmes etc so saying who would win is pointless as no one would ever know. K-bro fans would say the K's would win whilst other fighter's fans would say the other would win.

It's not pointless though, it applies another layer of context. Otherwise we'd just look at their records and see the number of W's and L's.

Without playing devils advocate I think this year has actually been quite good for boxing, lots of big competitive fights have been made, lots of entertaining scraps, and a couple of upsets. Many upcoming talents emerging, other fighters making there claim for p4p supremacy, the only thing its been missing is a May v Pac fight, but i believe there retirement, and that of the Klitchsko brothers would be the best thing for the sport.

Melkor wrote:

victorgarco wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:It's an opinion that I share with Truss, the general consensus may say otherwise but i'm unwavering in my view that they would merely be contenders in the majority of previous eras. During the golden age they would be seen no differently to the Nortons or Lyles of the world while they wouldn't stand out during the times of Holmes, Tyson or Lewis.

Pointless argument because the k bros were not around to box ali or holmes etc so saying who would win is pointless as no one would ever know. K-bro fans would say the K's would win whilst other fighter's fans would say the other would win.

It's not pointless though, it applies another layer of context. Otherwise we'd just look at their records and see the number of W's and L's.

But that layer of context differs depending on who you are talking to. Go on a foreign boxing forum or look at youtube comments on k-bros videos and you will see people from all over the world commenting. Some say K-bros would beat tyson etc some say he would lose. So if we were going to listen to you then we would say the k-bros are lucky tyson etc are not around and if we listen to their fans then we would believe k-bros are the best boxers around in history or one of the best.

I cannot say who would win out of tyson v vitali but when I look at vitali he was a world champion in the 90's the 00's and the 2010's. He came back from a 4 year absence and in his first match beat a very hard hitting samuel peters. He has beaten countless unbeaten Hw's and has never been knocked down in his career.

Wlad won a gold medal at the 96 olympic games and has one of the highest knock out percentages for a hw boxer. He has been a hw champ for about 7 years now and will retire with the most defences of the belt of any champion in history. As soon as vitali retires wlad will win the wbc belt (not sure about this but i don't think any other boxer has held all the belts at the same time).

Tyson held them all and Lewis did at one point hold the 3 that mattered at the time before which the proliferation of titles wasn't anywhere near as bad, it only ever mattered as to who the main man at the weight was and there have been countless numbers of those. The eastern europeans might say they are the best of all time but place more value on my personal opinion than anything else.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Tyson held them all and Lewis did at one point hold the 3 that mattered at the time before which the proliferation of titles wasn't anywhere near as bad, it only ever mattered as to who the main man at the weight was and there have been countless numbers of those. The eastern europeans might say they are the best of all time but place more value on my personal opinion than anything else.

Personal opinion differs dependig on which set of fans you talk to.

Quite obviously but i'm not too concerned about how they are perceived in eastern europe I personally think they are no better than average.

Tyson's speed, power and head movement way way too much for the Klits..

Holy's heart, jab, and combos too much for the brothers..

Witherspoon in shape and Tubbs fast hands.....too much..

Ghosty is spot on...........

They are one dimensional plodders who trade on their size..

Its a fair point victor - but you have to compare the eras they were in. Ali is ranked number one heavy because it was particularly strong era. You can only compare them with their counterparts (who they are leagues ahead of) then you have to decide on the strength of their resume then compare their Eras. I think they'd be good enough to be there or thereabouts in the past eras but not dominant. I'd rank em in the 15-20s. The HW's isnt a particularly strong division in terms of depth

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Quite obviously but i'm not too concerned about how they are perceived in eastern europe I personally think they are no better than average.

Why do you keep talking about Eastern Europe? you probably think that because they are from Eastern Europe that that is the only place their fan base will be. Boxing is a global sport and the fact they sell out arenas anywhere they go suggests they have a world wide audience

No they sell out Germany and Eastern Europe that's it, they've never been a draw anywhere else hence why they were dropped by HBO.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:No they sell out Germany and Eastern Europe that's it, they've never been a draw anywhere else hence why they were dropped by HBO.

Last time I checked Germany was Western Europe not Eastern. They have fought in the USA and have sold out arenas there and wlad recently fought in switzerland against thompson and sold out the arena. Also Vitali fought in a sold out arena in the UK when he beat Hide.

If Haye was to fight in Eastern Europe or Germany would he sell out an arena? If haye was to fight in the USA would he sell out arenas?

Can I ask how many years ago was it that either of them sold out an arena in America? Would put a lot of money on Hide being the draw in the UK and not Vitali but hey ho you have you're own opinion on their mass worldwide appeal.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Can I ask how many years ago was it that either of them sold out an arena in America? Would put a lot of money on Hide being the draw in the UK and not Vitali but hey ho you have you're own opinion on their mass worldwide appeal.

The last fight vitali had in the usa was 3 years ago where he sold out the staples arena and loads of stars came to view the fight. Since then he has fought in 7 fights in 4 different countries (selling out the arenas in all those fights).

Wlad last fought in the US 4 years ago against ibragiimov and sold out madison square gardens.

They will seel out an arena where ever they box and the evidence confirms this because all of their fights are sell outs no matter where in the world it is. Wlad went to Switzerland and faced a former sparring partner and a man he was expected to beat easily in tony thompson and 31,000 fans turned up to watch it( it was a sell out).

Wlad's last 6 fights have amassed an attendance of nearly 300,000 fans.

But hey ho you have your own opinin on their mass worldwide appeal.

2011 was far worse for boxing at least in terms of robberies. Last year I seem to remember one high profile robbery after another.

The rest of it is just a biased rant by a bleary eyed old yank that yearns for the eighties just because American fighters were great then. Plenty of talent around now just they don;'t wave the correct flag as far as you're concerned. I suppose the exciting times of Larry Holmes ruling the roost and the wonderous lard induced talents of Witherspoon and Tubbs is what we need back here!

Probably true Boony but with everything else

2012 has been annus horribilis