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Who is the greatest ever Rugby player!??

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:13 pm

They are debating for is the GOAT sportsman on the boxing board. But cant really think of a rugby player that shines out..


My top 4 would be campese, MJ, Edwards and Lumo..


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Post by Guest Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:18 pm

Me followed by Fitz,Carter,John,Edwards,joost and Eales

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Post by Guest Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:19 pm

Remember one of these on the old 606 back in 2007 and people were saying the likes of Vickery,Sheridan and Chabal laughing

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Post by bedfordwelsh Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:23 pm

Wasnt Edwards voted this awhile back?

A lot of these posts are a bit age dependant as in who you have actually seen play.

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Post by Guest Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:24 pm

Gerald Davies would be worth a shout

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Post by bedfordwelsh Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:26 pm

viewtothegym wrote:Gerald Davies would be worth a shout

No arguments of me there view, as a kid growing up through 70s and playing on the wing watching him was sheer magic, I then had leasure to meet him years later and he is a true gent.
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Post by wales606 Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:27 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wasnt Edwards voted this awhile back?

A lot of these posts are a bit age dependant as in who you have actually seen play.


Pretty sure Edwards was by some international panel of former players I think.
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Post by PJHolybloke Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:30 pm

Gareth.

It's also often overlooked that he is, in fact, a thoroughly nice person with a cracking sense of humour.

Sorted then. OK
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Post by aucklandlaurie Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:32 pm

I dont know who would be the greatest rugby player ever, perhaps William Webb Ellis?

But I know for sure the most talented rugby player I have ever seen play the game is Michael Jones..

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Post by bedfordwelsh Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:38 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote: I dont know who would be the greatest rugby player ever, perhaps William Webb Ellis?

But I know for sure the most talented rugby player I have ever seen play the game is Michael Jones..

Along with these posts there is also the one which asks what players from the amateur era could have played in the pro era, Jones was certainly one of them and with consumate ease.
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Post by majesticimperialman Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:39 pm

Shaun Fitzpatrick, Joost vandervesthausen, David Campassee, Serge Blanco.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:43 pm

me

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Post by Guest Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:45 pm

What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

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Post by majesticimperialman Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:52 pm

viewtothegym wrote:What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

I liked the fact that he could smoke about 60 fags a day, and run like the greyhound all day.

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 14 Dec 2012, 7:56 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

I liked the fact that he could smoke about 60 fags a day, and run like the greyhound all day.

Ok we have a winner!

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Post by thebluesmancometh Fri 14 Dec 2012, 8:06 pm

How do you determine greatest???

Most talented I'd go with Michael Jones

Best allrounder I'd go with Edwards

Most effective player has to be Lomu

Best leader maybe Johnstone/POC?

But who's greatest!!???

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Post by bedfordwelsh Fri 14 Dec 2012, 8:08 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:How do you determine greatest???

Most talented I'd go with Michael Jones

Best allrounder I'd go with Edwards

Most effective player has to be Lomu

Best leader maybe Johnstone/POC?

But who's greatest!!???

Blues,

For best leader you would have to chuck the likes Willie John, Merv and John Eales into the equation.
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Post by thebluesmancometh Fri 14 Dec 2012, 8:14 pm

John Eales, couldn't argue with the stories Ive heard of him, Willy John also but never saw them play myself, well never saw Edwards live either but saw enough of him to know he was some player!!

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Post by sirtidychris Fri 14 Dec 2012, 8:29 pm

William Webb Ellis...nuff said

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Post by kingjohn7 Fri 14 Dec 2012, 9:04 pm

Carter for me.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Fri 14 Dec 2012, 9:08 pm

I think Jones is probably the best player I have ever seen and Im old enough to remember Edwards playing, dare I say it but he could be awful at times, especially when he was captain.

Then of course there was David Bishop who was not only in the top three most talented individuals I've seen on the pitch he was almost certainly the hardest psycho ever. As an All Whites fan watching Bishop regularly demolish us humiliating Robert Jones in the process was awe inspiring to watch but did he really have to beat the whole of our forwards up as well? Should have got a lot of caps.

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Post by sirtidychris Fri 14 Dec 2012, 9:25 pm

Colin meads maybe up there ? obviously I have never seen him play but he has pretty legendary status, for me the greatest rugby player of all time would probably be Dan Carter but I think the dust has to settle on a career before they can really be called the greatest.

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Post by blackcanelion Fri 14 Dec 2012, 10:21 pm

It's always an interesting question. How do you do it:

By players you've seen: I've been following the sport since the 1970's. So I might include the likes of Naas Botha, Andy Irvine, Serge Blanco, etc.

By nation: If I was to put forward a kiwi it might be Billy Stead, Maurice Brownlie, Don Clarke, Cullen, Lomu etc.

By position: I might be looking at lock and might look at McBride, Du Preez, Eales, Johnson, Matfield etc.

By reputation/influence: As a kiwi I might pick Nepia, Meads, Fitzpatrick or McCaw. Internationally I might go for Giffen, Hennie Muller, OReilly, Bennet....

By records: I might pick someone like Campese, Gregen, Polous, Carter....

By influence: It might be Dannie Craven, Tom Ellison, Wiiliam Webb Ellis, etc

The debates going to be endless.


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Post by emack2 Fri 14 Dec 2012, 11:24 pm

Unless you have seen EVERY Player play many times since say 1905 ,taken into account rule changes.Physique,modern Sports aids /Medecine Pro and amateur it is impossible to make comparisons.
In my 60 years i`ve seen many great players but could`nt say YES he was the best of all time.
All I could do like anyone else is make an opinon and I would`nt like to do it.

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Post by maestegmafia Sat 15 Dec 2012, 12:16 am

Gareth Edwards is still the best i have ever seen.

Other notables would be Bleddyn Williams, John Eales, Wayne Shelford, Barry John, Gerald Davies, Jonathan Davies, Campese, Mark Ella, Serge Blanco, Sella, Carter, Michael Jones and Dai Morris

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Post by Taylorman Sat 15 Dec 2012, 12:40 am

If I had a clean sheet of paper and had to pick a side in the knowledge that I would get the very best of the players I chose the first name on the sheet would be Lomu.

The best I've seen with ball in hand by a distance and for me the most important factor in a player is simply the ability to take the ball and run with it and he was more effective at it than any one individual.

With 15 World cup tries unlikely to be beaten very soon and scored some tries no player could match. Never scored vs South Africa largely due to the fact that in key matchups the SA gameplan was largely centered around one thing-stopping Lomu. No one I've seen has been afforded that amount of respect.


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Post by Ospreydragon Sat 15 Dec 2012, 12:45 am

Edwards for me. And he was voted the best ever by international rugby players. I've never seen anyone better. He was far better than any scrum half in the world today.

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Post by Ospreydragon Sat 15 Dec 2012, 12:46 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/13591260

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Post by Taylorman Sat 15 Dec 2012, 1:17 am

I suppose it depends what youre picking the best player for. If its for a distinguished career full of accolades, trophies and a high level of consistency over many years then you night select that player as THE greatest of all time.

For me, I've based it on selecting the player for a match that has to be won, here and now. If lining up all the players in history, on the basis that they are all at THEIR peak, and having first pick of each player on an alternating basis, knowing that you'll get the very best out of the player selected, thats when I'd pick Lomu- to win this one match.

In fact I'd pick him first purely because I wouldnt want him on the other side, playing at his very best, against my side. I wouldnt say that as convincingly as for any other single player that I've ever seen.

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Post by George Carlin Sat 15 Dec 2012, 8:21 am

The classic question and the one most impossible to answer. Some players burned brighter than others, but for less time (the quintessential John v Bennett debate). Others were not the finest in their positions but their leadership was essential to the team as a whole being successful.

Gareth Edwards - most rounded skillset.

Michael Jones - most versatile (nobody else has been the best in the world in 2/3 different positions).

Jonah Lomu/Christian Cullen - greatest ability to change a game on their own.

Dan Carter - most consistent playmaker.

Philippe Sella/Mike Gibson - best defense.

David Campese - most creative.

John Eales/MJ/WJ McBride - finest leader.
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Post by mystiroakey Sat 15 Dec 2012, 8:28 am

No shouts for MJ,,

For me a great allround skillset..

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Post by tigerleghorn Sat 15 Dec 2012, 8:58 am

mystiroakey wrote:No shouts for MJ,,

For me a great allround skillset..

Agreed, he won everything but not just as a player but as Captain too. Three Lions tours, two as Captain including the unforgetable SA Tour.
As Geech and Telfer said"We wanted someone who could knock on their door and stare the big bokke eye to eye.

Perhaps his unsuccessful career as National team manager has dimmed his star?

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Post by Guest Sat 15 Dec 2012, 9:44 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

I liked the fact that he could smoke about 60 fags a day, and run like the greyhound all day.
Hardly the credentials for the world's greatest player, many from back in them days used to smoke,some players would back then would play whilst tipsy from drinking cans on the bus.

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Post by 21st Century Schizoid Man Sat 15 Dec 2012, 9:48 am

How about a wee shout for Gary Armstrong at SH. Tough, hard and fast with a great pass and awareness. Best 9 we have ever had anyway.
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Post by thebluesmancometh Sat 15 Dec 2012, 10:24 am

The issue I have is Lomu was a freak of nature at a time when wings were considered out of the way and were generally smaller. Lomus great advantage wasn't his rugby ability but the physiological advantage he had over so many players, I have no problem in saying that in todays game he wouldn't have been half as effective, and would probably be criticised ala Bananaman.

I know when he was at the blues he was taken on because his physiological makeup hadn't actually declined that much (or thats what we were told) he was almost as quick and as strong as he was in his prime, he had however lost a lot of flexibility, and the fact he wasn't a particularly talented rugby brain didn't help.

Whereas I honestly beleive pure talent like Edwards and Blanco, consistency of Carter and Wilkinson and leadership like Willy and MJ are characteristics you cannot buy, or train really and stand these players out ahead of the likes of Lomu.

IMHO one of the most talented players to watch was/is Cau cau, just loved the guy!!

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Post by AlastairW Sat 15 Dec 2012, 10:32 am

I'm going to go for a bit of a left field choice here:

Dave Gallaher

Captain of the 'The Originals' All Black tour to the NH in 1905. I think history has wiped out what type of player he was (please correct me if i'm wrong) but without that tour, that team, and the tonking the Kiwi's gave all the home nations we wouldn't have the game we all love today. In those times England's Crystal Palace saw crowds of an estimated 70K - 100K people, 47K at Arms Parks, and 12K at Lansdowne Road - a magnificent achievement, and pretty much set the blue print for what we have now.

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Post by reallybored Sat 15 Dec 2012, 10:55 am

Richie McCaw

His win percentage with New Zealand is ridiculous, 102 wins from 109 starts.

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Post by thebluesmancometh Sat 15 Dec 2012, 11:36 am

In that case what about Cruden... 19 from 19!!!

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 15 Dec 2012, 11:42 am

viewtothegym wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

I liked the fact that he could smoke about 60 fags a day, and run like the greyhound all day.
Hardly the credentials for the world's greatest player, many from back in them days used to smoke,some players would back then would play whilst tipsy from drinking cans on the bus.

viewtothegym

Did you ever see Serge Blanco play? If you did you know that his running line's and running out from under his goal post was very much the trend for Blanco. Rarely did you see him kick the ball out of hand, He always or nearly always ran with the ball in hand. that is what makes him such a great player in my opinion.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Sat 15 Dec 2012, 11:48 am

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:How about a wee shout for Gary Armstrong at SH. Tough, hard and fast with a great pass and awareness. Best 9 we have ever had anyway.

Armstrong was a good little player but he isnt even in the top ten scrum halfs of all time let alone the greatest player. Against people like Joost, Edwards, Gregan, Farr Jones, Bishop, Berbizier or Kirk he isn't in the same class. I would personally say Laidlaw and Cussiter are/were both better scrum halfs for Scotland/Lions.

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Post by TycroesOsprey Sat 15 Dec 2012, 11:55 am

AlastairW wrote:I'm going to go for a bit of a left field choice here:

Dave Gallaher

Captain of the 'The Originals' All Black tour to the NH in 1905. I think history has wiped out what type of player he was (please correct me if i'm wrong) but without that tour, that team, and the tonking the Kiwi's gave all the home nations we wouldn't have the game we all love today. In those times England's Crystal Palace saw crowds of an estimated 70K - 100K people, 47K at Arms Parks, and 12K at Lansdowne Road - a magnificent achievement, and pretty much set the blue print for what we have now.


I reckon the ghosts of Rhys Gabe, Teddy Morgan and Willie Llewellyn might have something to say about that ghost

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Post by tigerleghorn Sat 15 Dec 2012, 11:58 am

majesticimperialman wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

I liked the fact that he could smoke about 60 fags a day, and run like the greyhound all day.
Hardly the credentials for the world's greatest player, many from back in them days used to smoke,some players would back then would play whilst tipsy from drinking cans on the bus.

viewtothegym

Did you ever see Serge Blanco play? If you did you know that his running line's and running out from under his goal post was very much the trend for Blanco. Rarely did you see him kick the ball out of hand, He always or nearly always ran with the ball in hand. that is what makes him such a great player in my opinion.

Old Serge didn't like Nigel Heslops "slightly late" tackle in the "Battle of Paris" 5 Nations game where Brian Moore wound up the French so well pre-match that they had two of their front row sent off. Didn't one of their players, Marc Cecillon (spelling) go on to murder his missus?

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Post by hugo124 Sat 15 Dec 2012, 12:09 pm

I've seen MIKE GIBSON!!! but not the man himself, anyone who can look this good with the amount of sh*te players around him must be the best!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkRIhWXeuTQ

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Post by RDW Sat 15 Dec 2012, 1:01 pm

Very subjective but for me it's got to be BoD or Carter, and i'll go for BoD because he did it in a worse team!

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Post by Artful_Dodger Sat 15 Dec 2012, 1:10 pm

Hal Luscombe, Ayoola Erinle, Tony Buckley and Marcus Di Rollo for me.

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Post by Biltong Sat 15 Dec 2012, 1:47 pm

We can't even agree on best player per position or even best player per position in a specific era.

This is impossible.
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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 15 Dec 2012, 2:35 pm

Best Hooker. Shaun Fitzpatrick.

Best Scrum. Half Joost Vandervesthausen. closely followed by George Gregan.

Best Winger. David Campasee.

Best Fly Half. Johnny Wilkinson/Dan Carter. Nothing between these two.

Best Full Back Serge Blanco.

Best Second Row. player. M,artin Johnson/ John Eales Nothing between these two.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 15 Dec 2012, 2:35 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Best Hooker. Shaun Fitzpatrick.

Best Scrum. Half Joost Vandervesthausen. closely followed by George Gregan.

Best Winger. David Campasee.

Best Fly Half. Johnny Wilkinson/Dan Carter. Nothing between these two.

Best Full Back Serge Blanco.

Best Second Row. player. Martin Johnson/ John Eales Nothing between these two.

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Post by Geordie Sat 15 Dec 2012, 3:48 pm

Its difficult to pick a best ever as so many positions are radically different...but such a player would probably come from the back row or backs///

Its like the old arguement best 8 - do you consider Zinzan for his skills or Buck for his sheer ferocious physical ability and leadership...

I dont think its Jonah...he was a freak at the time...and the first real world rugby superstar...but not greatest player.

And for those claiming Campo...ill raise them Jason Robinson, Shane Williams, Cristian Cullen...Rupeni Caucau..etc..

Michael Jones was right up there in my eyes....could do everything...complete player....

Anyone for Tim Horan...or would he just be greatest centre?

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Post by Guest Sat 15 Dec 2012, 8:15 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
viewtothegym wrote:What did you like most about Serge Blanco madge?

I liked the fact that he could smoke about 60 fags a day, and run like the greyhound all day.
Hardly the credentials for the world's greatest player, many from back in them days used to smoke,some players would back then would play whilst tipsy from drinking cans on the bus.

viewtothegym

Did you ever see Serge Blanco play? If you did you know that his running line's and running out from under his goal post was very much the trend for Blanco. Rarely did you see him kick the ball out of hand, He always or nearly always ran with the ball in hand. that is what makes him such a great player in my opinion.
Did he Madge? what games? when?

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