Andy only third

by newballs Mon 17 Dec 2012, 14:23

Congrats to Andy on his 3rd place in the SPOTY awards. First time though I've ever seen anyone present themselves with their own trophy Laugh

On a more serious note though what will Andy have to do to win the main award? Looks like it'll have to be no less than the Wimbledon crown itself. Awards were obviously more easily obtained in those by gone days when Greg was playing.

Was 3rd place the best he could have expected behind Wiggins and Ennis? After all we'd be waiting 70 plus years for a major title and Andy managed two.

by sirfredperry Mon 17 Dec 2012, 14:31

The answer to Andy - and all the others trying for the SPOTY- is to observe the SPOTY golden rule - NEVER DO ANYTHING IN OLYMPIC YEAR.
Andy would have walked it in any other year, as would the likes of Ennis, Farah and McIlroy. My personal vote would have been Farah for the single most exciting moment in sport in 2012 - his last 600 metres in the 5,000 metres final.
And to think that Greg R got it in 1997 for being runner-up at the US Open.

by lags72 Mon 17 Dec 2012, 15:14

sfp - IIRC (apologies in advance if I'm horribly wrong....) virtually nothing else of real note happened on the British sporting scene in 1997, and giving the award to Rusedski was about the best of several questionable options back then ..... Erm

Tennis at the Olympics has never really been headline news, and I suspect that if Andy had taken the Wimbledon crown as his first Slam instead of the USO then he would have amassed a lot more votes. But given that Mo Farah didn't even get placed in the SPOTY awards, Andy can be fairly happy with 3rd.

In the end it wasn't even close. Wiggins was way ahead of anyone else in the vote count anyway. Wrongly or rightly, none of the others even came close according to the figures.

by hawkeye Mon 17 Dec 2012, 15:55

I am totally shocked that Mo didn't win. Pfft!

I have a technical question. How did they know prior to the telephone vote that Andy was going to get third place? How long does it take to ship a trophy to Miami (I think it was Miami but somewhere in the US anyway).

by bogbrush Mon 17 Dec 2012, 15:58

I had to be Wiggins; with all respect to everyone else, what they did has been done before.

Murray was harshly treated, but then so were Farah, Ennis and most others. It was a big year and the winner did something unique in british sporting history. Plus he gives the funniest speeches.

Yes hawkeye, that question did occur to me. I suspect wiggins won by a boatload and they had a probably 2nd/3rd (are they different?) on hand.

by Mad for Chelsea Mon 17 Dec 2012, 16:41

even as a Murray fan, I think Wiggins absolutely deserved it this year, he's been exceptional (you could argue the greatest ever year for a British sportsman).

by newballs Mon 17 Dec 2012, 17:21

bogbrush Bradley may have given the funniest speech of the night but Andy's presentation ceremony really took the biscuit.

Conspiracy theories around the telephone result? Whatever next. you'll be telling me all the TV shows including Blue Peter rig theirs... wait a minute Doh

by djlovesyou Mon 17 Dec 2012, 18:02

Logistically, getting a blank trophy, Lennox Lewis and a camera to Miami just in case Andy were to finish in the top three isn't that much of a monumental task.

If he hadn't finished in the top three, they just wouldn't have needed to use the link.

by lags72 Mon 17 Dec 2012, 18:02

newballs wrote:bogbrush Bradley may have given the funniest speech of the night but Andy's presentation ceremony really took the biscuit.

....................................................................................................

It sure did.

I'm not sure anyone bothered telling Lennox Lewis just what he was there for ...... Headscratch

by Danny_1982 Mon 17 Dec 2012, 18:23

I assume people are joking about the conspiracy theories? Obviously Lennox was there with replicas of the trophies for first second and third, just in case. By the looks of it, he also brought lots of booze too. That was a really funny moment.

I have no issue with the top 3. Mo was perhaps a bit unlucky, but everyone loves Jess Ennis (especially with that derrière). I'm just glad Andy got some recognition off the public for his achievements, which he deserves.

by lags72 Mon 17 Dec 2012, 18:33

Danny_1982 wrote: ............... but everyone loves Jess Ennis (especially with that derrière). I'm just glad Andy got some recognition off the public for his achievements, which he deserves.

Indeed they do (and maybe that derriere deserves an award all of its own ..... oh sorry ... that's an altogether different contest .... Erm

)

Yes, good that Andy was duly recognised by the great British public. I suspect he himself didn't expect to take the top prize, and am sure he was happy enough, given what he was up against this year.

by Guest Mon 17 Dec 2012, 18:48

Andy didn't look interested at all.

by LuvSports! Mon 17 Dec 2012, 18:54

nah the best guy who stole the show was the south african dad "unbelievable" "unbelievable" "ITS UNBELIEVABLE"

like he gargles chainsaws

by CaledonianCraig Mon 17 Dec 2012, 19:11

newballs wrote:Congrats to Andy on his 3rd place in the SPOTY awards. First time though I've ever seen anyone present themselves with their own trophy

On a more serious note though what will Andy have to do to win the main award? Looks like it'll have to be no less than the Wimbledon crown itself. Awards were obviously more easily obtained in those by gone days when Greg was playing.

Was 3rd place the best he could have expected behind Wiggins and Ennis? After all we'd be waiting 70 plus years for a major title and Andy managed two.

Don't wish to rain on Beeb's parade but remember how the winner is picked. Wink

First up, no complaints from me as Bradley Wiggins achievement was immense so he deserves all he gets. However, lets remember this is a phone-based vote and as we, who traverse forums, and follow Andy Murray know there are so many brain-dead football supporters out there who still spit blood over the mention of Andy's name because he stood up for his country when Henman indulged in a bit of banter with him. Those millions will never vote for Andy so with that massive handicap I am actually very surprised Andy finished as high as third.

by Danny_1982 Mon 17 Dec 2012, 19:46

Craig - I think for most that is history now. You still get the odd few who won't let go, but you only need to look at how much his support at Wimbledon has grown over the years to see how much the public have warmed to him.

Plus I think Andy's emotions at the Olympics showed a few that whilst no doubt a proud Scot he is also a proud Brit. Not to mention that his girlfriend, most of his coaching team and some of his family are also English (which conveniently gets forgotten by those few still clinging to the story).

What I always found odd is how only andy seems affected by this alleged anti-Englishness. I never heard anyone slating Chris Hoy when he - a proud Scot - did so many great things with the letters GB next to his name.

by CaledonianCraig Mon 17 Dec 2012, 19:56

Danny - the reason people don't have a problem with Sir Chris Hoy is he wasn't involved in a friendly banter exchange that was taken in totally the wrong way by a number of football supporters. Their sentiments stand if you read the stuff they were posting around when Andy had won the US Open so we can safely assume they would never have voted for Andy so for him to finish third was very good.

by Danny_1982 Mon 17 Dec 2012, 20:12

I think you're partly right Craig, but there are also a number of people who just like to attack British tennis players. The amount of stick Tim used to get back in his time was staggering. There seemed to be as many people slating him for his fist pumps and lack of a nasty side as there were fans!

I saw a program on BBC3 the other week that had Tim about 4th in a top 10 list of British sporting losers!! This is a guy who reached 4 in the world and gets put on a list of all time British losers!!!

Sadly, that's how we are with our own sporting heroes. I think if Prince William took up tennis and won the calendar grand slam wearing a Union Jack kit he'd STILL draw as many detractors as fans! That's sport in this country, but particularly tennis.

by hawkeye Mon 17 Dec 2012, 21:59

Danny_1982 wrote:

Sadly, that's how we are with our own sporting heroes. I think if Prince William took up tennis and won the calendar grand slam wearing a Union Jack kit he'd STILL draw as many detractors as fans! That's sport in this country, but particularly tennis.

Your talking rubbish. People will have voted for who they liked and being liked isn't a direct correlation with achievement. The British public loved Greg Rusedki so they have nothing against tennis or indeed anyone who is not 100% English.

by Danny_1982 Mon 17 Dec 2012, 22:04

hawkeye wrote: The British public loved Greg Rusedki

You are priceless at times HE.

by bogbrush Mon 17 Dec 2012, 23:54

There were inverted snobs who hated Tim simply because he wasn't the working class hero they craved.

by YvonneT Tue 18 Dec 2012, 00:00

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Don't wish to rain on Beeb's parade but remember how the winner is picked.

First up, no complaints from me as Bradley Wiggins achievement was immense so he deserves all he gets. However, lets remember this is a phone-based vote and as we, who traverse forums, and follow Andy Murray know there are so many brain-dead football supporters out there who still spit blood over the mention of Andy's name because he stood up for his country when Henman indulged in a bit of banter with him. Those millions will never vote for Andy so with that massive handicap I am actually very surprised Andy finished as high as third.

Sorry Craig, but this makes me cringe. The Murray supporters that go about this really need to drop it.

I do understand that there are some hateful individuals who are very vocal in their hatred of Andy. That's their problem. I realise why that would upset you though. Then there are loads of people who just don't like him. They don't need to like him. And it's not all about about the football comment nor that he is Scottish. (I do like him by the way, I like his monotoneness & media reticence, but everybody warms to different things).

I don't support the English football team, and if one of the team was nominated for SPOTY I wouldn't vote for them (unless they'd done some extraordinary humanitarian work or something). Their fans would vote for them. If they get the most votes they win. If they don't, no use complaining about how they'll never get my vote - I'd just had chosen my own favourite from the nominees.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 18 Dec 2012, 07:23

I should let it drop and will let it drop but if people cannot see (ie Hawkeye) that he never won because A. Bradley Wiggins is a stellar star himself and B. Bradley never had the handicap of a hateful branch of people who'd vote for anyone other than him. Quite simple really. For that massive handicap I don't think Andy will ever win SPOTY but is that really any big deal? Of course not.

Your final point Yvonne was ostencibly what I was saying in that it is an award given out by the masses and to win you need massive support - take away a large portion of football supporters from your potential vote and you have no chance.

by hawkeye Tue 18 Dec 2012, 07:58

"SPOTY" is just a bit of fun but it does indicate something about what sports people are liked by the general public quite apart from what they have won. So it is difficult to say that someone deserves to win over someone else.

I would guess the reason why Rusedki won it was partly because of his personality. He's proved to be the sort of person who goes on a reality show (the ice skating one), has become a commentator, is enthusiastically involved still in the sport coaching young players, put himself forward to play for GB in Davis Cup (and even offered to come out of retirement to help the team out). He also has a nice smile. I'm always shocked that so many refuse to recognize how positive he is for British tennis and even laugh at the idea that the public warm to him. Maybe Murray fans have their own prejudice? Perhaps because rumor has it that Andy doesn't like Greg? How childish! Maybe because Andy may have won more than Greg but he hasn't gone out of his way to win over the public in the way that Greg has or isn't able to.

Anyway guessing what may appeal to the public and what might make them ring in and vote is tricky. I was sure that Mo was the candidate with everything. Pfft! What do I know...

by barrystar Tue 18 Dec 2012, 11:07

djlovesyou wrote:Logistically, getting a blank trophy, Lennox Lewis and a camera to Miami just in case Andy were to finish in the top three isn't that much of a monumental task.

If he hadn't finished in the top three, they just wouldn't have needed to use the link.

That's clearly the answer for all conspiracy theorists. Murray was a pretty strong bet for the top 3 given that, like Wiggins, he had Olympic Gold and a monumental achievement outside the Olympics.

Any other year the 1st slam winner since Perry would walk it (look at the last 3 years for example). I suspect that being Spoty is pretty low on the radar for someone like Murray who's got some bigger fish to fry in the next few years as well as having the good luck of being in a sport that keeps his profile up at least 4 times a year every year rather than coming round once every 2-4 years.

A measure of the strength of the year is that the complete also-rans included Rory McIlroy with his 2nd Major, y/e No. 1 ranking, and top money winner in the US and Europe.

by barrystar Tue 18 Dec 2012, 11:10

hawkeye wrote:"SPOTY" is just a bit of fun but it does indicate something about what sports people are liked by the general public quite apart from what they have won. So it is difficult to say that someone deserves to win over someone else.

I would guess the reason why Rusedki won it was partly because of his personality. He's proved to be the sort of person who goes on a reality show (the ice skating one), has become a commentator, is enthusiastically involved still in the sport coaching young players, put himself forward to play for GB in Davis Cup (and even offered to come out of retirement to help the team out). He also has a nice smile. I'm always shocked that so many refuse to recognize how positive he is for British tennis and even laugh at the idea that the public warm to him. Maybe Murray fans have their own prejudice? Perhaps because rumor has it that Andy doesn't like Greg? How childish! Maybe because Andy may have won more than Greg but he hasn't gone out of his way to win over the public in the way that Greg has or isn't able to.

Anyway guessing what may appeal to the public and what might make them ring in and vote is tricky. I was sure that Mo was the candidate with everything. Pfft! What do I know...

Rusedski will need to do a lot of good behind the scenes to make up for his appalling public personality as the most half-witted bandwagon jumper on television, not to mention his close shave with nandrolone - to paraphrase, 'If I'm guilty then many on the tour will come down with me.....'.

by banbrotam Wed 19 Dec 2012, 05:51

hawkeye wrote:I would guess the reason why Rusedki won it was partly because of his personality. He's proved to be the sort of person who goes on a reality show (the ice skating one), has become a commentator, is enthusiastically involved still in the sport coaching young players, put himself forward to play for GB in Davis Cup (and even offered to come out of retirement to help the team out). He also has a nice smile. I'm always shocked that so many refuse to recognize how positive he is for British tennis and even laugh at the idea that the public warm to him. Maybe Murray fans have their own prejudice? Perhaps because rumor has it that Andy doesn't like Greg? How childish! Maybe because Andy may have won more than Greg but he hasn't gone out of his way to win over the public in the way that Greg has or isn't able to.

Actually most Tennis fans have little time for Rusedski, simply because he talks nonsense, i.e. calling Tsonga the new Nadal at O2 2011. Hence, it's no wonder that Murray gives the impression of seeing him as a bit of a joke - Greg one minute is slating him for being too passive and then next minute is praising him for 30 shot rallies at the US Open (isn't that 'passive' as well). In other words, someone who loves the sound of his own voice and often fails to engage brain before talking

He does have a nice smile though Rolling Eyes

Andy's popularity is evidenced with this 3rd place, when you consider that Farah - who gave us two of the most memorable non subscription TV occurences since Coe in 1984, came behind him

You're right about one thing - Andy will never be as popular as Grinning Greg, simply because he doesn't desperately crave popularity - a very good human trait

by sportslover Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:36

" he doesn't desperately crave popularity - a very good human trait"

Same can be said about the World No.1 golfer Rory Mcilroy, he was nowhere to be seen!

Probably on a beach somewhere with Caroline W.

Don't really think some of the top sports celebs really care much about Spoty, (especially after people like Greg won it) lol

by lags72 Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:47

To return for a moment to the question posed by the OP newballs ..... ie just what will Andy have to do to win the main award ? Well as newballs suggests, perhaps only it's a Wimbledon crown that will do it.

But the reality is that SPOTY - when all said & done - is just a fun award, based on votes cast by a fickle British public, and in that sense little different from the ephemeral X Factor principle (although it must be said that the actual achievements which SPOTY is intended to recognise are of course on a whole different level from a singing competition....)

It's hard to imagine that Andy would ever see SPOTY as part of his lasting legacy or that he would lose even a minute's sleep over whether he finished 1st, 3rd - or indeed nowhere.

We hear - and will quite rightly continue to hear - players being introduced ahead of a big match as a current/former US Open/Wimbledon Champion, current/former World No.1 etc etc ... I have yet to observe any reference to BBC Sports Personality of the Year Winner in such a context Shocked

by sportslover Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:57

Well if the player in question was announced as a "Spoty" winner then possibly the spectators would be looking for evidence of acne or a similar skin condition!

by User 774433 Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:39

sportslover wrote:Well if the player in question was announced as a "Spoty" winner then possibly the spectators would be looking for evidence of acne or a similar skin condition!

by User 774433 Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:56

sportslover wrote:" he doesn't desperately crave popularity - a very good human trait"

Same can be said about the World No.1 golfer Rory Mcilroy, he was nowhere to be seen!

Probably on a beach somewhere with Caroline W.

Don't really think some of the top sports celebs really care much about Spoty, (especially after people like Greg won it) lol

SL Personally I like both Murray and Greg.

Greg seems like a nice guy, I watch him as an analyst on Eurosport and he seems very polite an well mannered.
I also really like Andy Murray, he is actually quite funny if you see some of his interviews and also seems very polite. Some people falsely accuse him of not liking the English, but what he said was clearly a joke.
The only reason I don't support Murray in tennis is because of Rafa.

by sportslover Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:19

IMBL
Nothing against Greg or for that matter any other player , its only an Internet forum and intended by most, I would think just for some light hearted banter!

Nothing said here or on any other similar forum will have any bearing on what actually happens or will happen in the Real World.

However I think you and most of the regulars on here already know that.

As for the ones that don't picard

by Henman Bill Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:57

"everyone loves Jess Ennis (especially with that derrière). "

Actually there is nothing at all wrong with the rest of her, but what really made her stand out for me was that she probably only needed to finish 6th or something like that in that last race to get gold and yet she fought to the front and came home in first place. The difference between winning and winning in style matters to the British public. (It is the same way FEderer is more adored than other tennis players, even thousands of miles from home.) However to have a chance at first I think Ennis really had to try the hurdles and try and get another gold, which was the only disappointment.

Wiggins is the right winner for me, a medal at the Olympics, the tour de France, and some charisma as well. The only question mark is whether the Tour de France really is so important, for me it's been massively spoiled by drugs. But with no evidence against Wiggins and the evidence of the slower times, benefit of the doubt here.

Murray in 3rd, another good choice for me. The fact of the matter is the US Open is not as important as the Tour de France in either British or global conscience, and a Tour de France win requires a herculean physical effort.

In certain other years (Zara Philips 2006 or Ryan Giggs 2009) Murray would have cruised to the win with the year he's had. In future, if he wins Wimbledon in a non Olympic year, he will likely win the title unless he is unfortunate and someone else has a stellar year. If he wins another slam, he might get it, especially in a weak year. Even in a slamless year he might have a chance in an extremely weak year such as 2006 or 2009.

I think the British public generally make good choices, apart from a couple of wierd choices mentioned above in weak years with no stand out candidate. I don't see an anti Murray factor and I think there are enough voters out there who have forgotten the overblown Paraguay incident, or understand it was just a joke.

As for Mo Farah, the racist and anti immigrant vote would go against him compared to other contenders. He was born in Somalia and move to England at the age of 8. Some people who didn't know that and didn't hear him interviewed may have thought he was one of those Africans who just move to a European country in later life to run for them.

by LuvSports! Wed 19 Dec 2012, 13:08

http://richard-mills-sports.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/isnt-it-about-time-paralympian-won.html

http://richard-mills-sports.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/mo-farah-or-bradley-wiggins-for-sports.html

i wouldn't have given jess 5th place, let alone 2nd, but just my opinion.

by User 774433 Wed 19 Dec 2012, 13:15

Interesting articles LS

Personally I think Andy should have won.

by LuvSports! Wed 19 Dec 2012, 13:28

cheers bud, fair enough, each to their own!!!

by newballs Thu 20 Dec 2012, 12:41

Some interesting thoughts around the SPOTY results this year. It seems to me that if you really want a combination of sporting achievement plus personality then Wiggins was the outstanding candidate.

The problem with this award though is if you take it at face value and look for personality first then you might argue that good guys (or girls)do sometimes finish second and the shortlist should include more of those who display such a quality regardless of their medal colour/ranking in their chosen sport plus how popular with the media their particular sport was in the first place (but that's quite another story).

by coolpixel Thu 20 Dec 2012, 21:47

I like Rusedski. He was world no 4 too and I think he reached a slam final. Very respectable achievements . If you are shocked that Henman is listed in a loaer'a list despite his achievements why do you slag Rusedski? What has his current job got anything to do with his tennis achievements ?

by coolpixel Thu 20 Dec 2012, 21:49

And there isn't anything wrong with craving popularity. You are just applying your personal bias onto tennis players

by Danny_1982 Thu 20 Dec 2012, 22:28

Coolpixel - I think you are referencing my post (talking about Henman being on a loser list and Rusedski).

I am amazed Tim featured on a loser list, and I didn't slag off Greg. I laughed at HE referring to him as a figure that is 'loved' by the British public. I don't mind Greg, he's passionate and seems to have a warm personality. But loved? I don't think so personally.

by banbrotam Fri 21 Dec 2012, 19:41

Henman Bill wrote:"everyone loves Jess Ennis (especially with that derrière). "As for Mo Farah, the racist and anti immigrant vote would go against him compared to other contenders. He was born in Somalia and move to England at the age of 8. Some people who didn't know that and didn't hear him interviewed may have thought he was one of those Africans who just move to a European country in later life to run for them.

Ridiculoulsy sad, but true

by Guest Thu 27 Dec 2012, 23:37

I had no qualms with Jess getting up on stage to receive second in THAT dress, *ahem* but that probably sums up my view on it. Yeah its a bit of a popularity contest, it serves mostly to give a little nostalgic trip through the years sport and raise a glass to the standout performers. Hell likely win in a non olympic year. People are often fickle, one minut ethey hate him for some misunderstood football joke, then england get knocked out and they forget all about it... till the next international tournament

by invisiblecoolers Fri 28 Dec 2012, 04:25

Inspite of being a fantastic year Andy could not win it, and who knows he might win it some year which could be his poorest year of achievement, thats how these awards at times do go.

At the end of the day Andy knows SPOTY is just a thing and not everything, he would rather have the Olympic , USO titles than this SPOTY award.

Congrats to Wiggins between, he deserved it like many predicted well before the award was handed over.

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