Calzaghe versus Conteh - your chance to call it

First topic message reminder :

Ayup, chaps. A weekend of Christmas shopping with the ol' ball and chain (sorry, I meant girlfriend!) lies ahead so, as this may be my last chance for a while, let's talk some boxing.

John Conteh and Joe Calzaghe. The first one of the great underachievers of the ring, the other possibly an overachiever, even if that term doesn't always sit well with me, or make the most sense. Conteh a big, genuine Light-Heavyweight, Calzaghe a career Super-Middleweight but, crucially, a pretty big one too who, by outworking Bernard Hopkins in 2008, hinted that he may well have had the capacity to be a reasonable Light-Heavy himself had he dipped his toes in the division earlier.

I've watched Conteh's demolition job on the highly-ranked and rated American Len Hutchins a couple of times this year, and afterwards there is a small feature recorded in, I believe, 2006 in which a couple of pundits (Duke McKenzie included, although I accept that my use of the word 'pundit' was a wee bit liberal, there!) were posed the question of what they thought would have happened had Conteh and Calzaghe ever collided.

So let's imagine, for just a second, that Conteh's reign as WBC Light-Heavyweight kingpin had fallen somewhere between Calzaghe lifting his WBO Super-Middleweight belt in 1997 and then, a full decade later, outscoring Mikkel Kessler to complete his clean sweep. Now imagine that, after taking care of all business at 168 lb, Calzaghe set his sights on Conteh's Light-Heavyweight belt. How do you see the fight going?

I think the blend of styles makes this a potential classic of the British ring; Conteh the efficent, clean puncher, Calzaghe the buzzsaw, quantity-based one. Conteh an orthodox fighter who boxed frm a stance which you could find in a puglism textbook, Calzaghe the southpaw with a sometimes ungainly, but always effective style of his own.

What's more, both shared the odd weakness which played to a strength of the other; not dissimilar to Joe Louis, Conteh had an ever-so-slight tendancy to drop the left straight after jabbing with it, leaving him open to the odd right hand through the guard (see the first fight with Chris Finnegan, a superb tussle in itself). Calzaghe's right hand lead, which was a risky punch in itself but was also one which he was able to get away with throwing due to his speed, could take advantage of this. Likewise, Calzaghe seemd to take an inordinate amount of left hands compared to rights. Conteh, owner of one of the best left hands in boxing during his pomp, would have been licking his lips in anticipation of the chance to exploit this, given how he was able to left hook Hutchins all over the ring for three rounds before finishing off the American with that exact same punch in great style.

The edge in speed goes to Calzaghe, whereas the ege in timing rests with Conteh. Conventional wisdom tells us that, in most cases, speed takes the first few rounds or the major share of them when these two elements meet head on, and I'd agree that this may well be the case here, with Calzaghe getting the better of the opening rounds. Conteh, as demonstrated in that aforementioned bout with Finnegan, could be a slow burner and I think he'd need a few rounds to have a look at Calzaghe and get to grips with that all-action style.

However, for all of his hard hitting and, at times, downright nasty fouling, it's easy to forget that Conteh boasted a fine boxing brain. He was also a very proficient counter-puncher. With Conteh's added advantage of being the naturally bigger and heavier man it's not unreasonable to suggest that, in the clinches and with his body attack (something Calzaghe perhaps lacked to a certiain degree), he could take a few miles per hour out of Calzaghe's whirlwind attacks, forcing the Welshman to be a little more selective in what he throws as the fight wars on.

If that's the case, then Calzaghe might struggle in the late stages; if a stand off develops (and it would be likely, as both men liked to hold the centreof the ring) then we know who is going to lose their patience and take a swat first - Calzaghe. I see Conteh being able to take advantage of this with his superior timing - Calzaghe had a very good chin but, nonetheless, he could be tagged and hurt, which tended to force him on to the back foot, a position where he just never looked comfortable. Even if Calzaghe's attack can remain relentless, I always thought it was a little repetitive, too; Conteh, who had an unfalppable coolness in his boxing when he was in the zone, would slowly but surely pick up on this and plot the perfect route for his sharp counters and jolting jab as the fight wore on.

So, what's your take? Personally, I like Conteh in this one. Has the antidote to almost everything Calzaghe has in his arsenal, was that little bit more adaptable for my money and, crucially, may just be a bit too big and robust at 175 lb. I mean, let's be frank - the man was a brute when he wanted to be. I think Calzaghe's heart, awkwardness and the fact that Conteh doesn't start landing at will until the advanced stages of the bout keep him there until the end, however.

A three, perhaps four point margin in favour of the Liverpudlian over twelve, and a little bit wider over fifteen is how I'd see it.

Your thoughts, if anyone's interested? Thanks, lads.

Lovely stuff,Chris, and I would recommend his autobiography (the fabulously named "I,Conteh";I think Alan Partridge got the idea for his similarly titled tome.Unfortunately it's quite rare now, but does pop up on Ebay fairly infrequently.
I'm going to sit on the fence re: a call on this match-up!

Michael Moorer vs Conteh? He looked monstrous at light heavy but his opponents arent really great

Rowley wrote:It was my inability to be anything other than hugely biased that stopped me writing it Dave, although now Flintoff has turned pro may have him representing Lancashire at heavy, him against Bruce Woodcock is one for the ages.

Just a small add.
My tutor in Hull University went by the name of Bruce Woodcock.I heard the name a while later in me boxing books and thought it a bit concidental.Well, he's his son, so if you're interested please go to the site he has on him

http://www2.hull.ac.uk/fass/english/staff/woodcock,-dr-bruce.aspx

He's a top guy by the way.

Cheers for that Andy. It's is indeed a small world ain't it

andygf wrote:Lovely stuff,Chris, and I would recommend his autobiography

I was so hoping that this was going to lead to a recommendation for Joes autobiography, if for nothing else than to see Rowley froth at the mouth!

I feel sorry for the person who had to transcribe the tape of Joe speaking and editing out every time he said "to be honest with you".
Having read "No Ordinary Joe" I must be completely honest with you and state that I enjoyed Patsy Palmer's autobiography more.

... And your reason for reading patsy palmer 's autobiography?

I'm thinking you're a book critic, or maybe you bagged her at a party in your misspent youth and were wondering if you got a mention?

It can't have been a book of choice.... Can it?

I think perhaps the ginger freckly women are his type. Actually, she doesn't look too bad in a certain light come to think of it.

That certain light being, quite dark. Been drinking again super?

I have to admit that it is an amorous thing.One that I can't explain, but Viz did an article once called "borderline boilers", about people you know you shouldn't,but do. The head says "No", but the **** says "go".
Patsy Palmer actually lives in Sussex, and I see her nowe and again, but have never spoken. I do know that she has a "Fight Club" type addiction to certain groups but any more said on this would certainly be libellous.
I cam across her book in the library ,and out of some masochistic trait I skimmed through.It's not "War and Peace", it's fair to say, but she does include amusing photos of herself as a kid with electric ginger hair.
How I came from being taught John Donne by Bruce Woodcock's son to reading Patsy Palmer's autobiography in just over ten years is a sad indictment of my life trajectory.

Ha andy, so she's a guilty pleasure... We all have them! As for life trajectories, my family motto is 'onwards and sideways'. Though mine has been more 'onwards and downwards'. I'm certainly not in any position to cast the first stone!

'onwards and downwards',eh...fnaar,fnaar....Bringing it back to boxing, John Conteh suffered with the old demons, late nights and squandered talent.
There's a great bit in his autobiog where he recounts meeting Ali who told him off for being prettier than him.
One thing about the contrast between Conteh and Calzaghe ,Joe stretched his talent out and Conteh did the opposite.I suppose we should give Joe a bit of respect for being able to stick Newbridge for twenty years, spurning parties,chicks etc.As I reflected about Kirkland Laing and Herol Graham,what a shame these guys didn't achieve all they should havebut ;it must be really difficult to be as disciplined as JC was (during his career!).

As it’s all gone a bit dead here, and there’s always a good reason to mull over a dream fight scenario, I have fished this article out of the vaults as I thought it was a terrific read ,hopefully someone else likes it.

I didn't comment on this thread back then and I can't really now...

Only saw Conteh getting creamed off Saad........So his obvious talents escaped me..

Heard he was good and a natural 175 pounder so maybe that levels it up...

Never understood the love for Conteh. He squeaked past the game Argentine Ahmunia (can’t be bothered to check although I watched a recording of that fight) for the title and after a couple of defences it was all over. Don’t know much about Conteh to be fair but always saw Calzaghe as a notch above the likes of Eubank, Benn, Watson who I watched plenty of. I think Conteh may be one of those who is judged on the boxer he could have been rather than the boxer he was. Plenty of rose tined specs around for boxers of the past.