V2 Greatest of All Time Awards

First topic message reminder :

Ladies and gentlemen, children of all ages V2 proudly presents its inaugural greatest of all time awards, the competition pits 64 titans of sporting history against each other in a world cup style event. With Giants from the worlds of Golf, Boxing, Football, Cricket, track and field, tennis and many more this competition will prove who really is the greatest of all time!

Forget the Jules Rimet, the Ryder Cup, Wimbledon, the World Heavyweight Title or even Olympic Gold this is the one they all want and it’s up to you who takes the title. The competition starts with the group stages, 16 groups consisting of 4 competitors with the top two progressing from each round, the next stage goes straight into a knockout format pitting the final 32 in one on one contest, all the way to the final where V2’s G.O.A.T will be crowned.

The 64 competitors have been chosen by the admin and moderator team and will be drawn randomly into the 16 groups.
It’s really easy for you to get involved and have your say, simply vote for the sporting great that you believe deserves your vote in each group/round based on their achievements, medals, honours, skills, personality etc. etc. it’s all down to personal preference, however what we do ask is that you leave a comment as to why you voted and tell us exactly why your chosen participant deserves your vote and progress to the next round.

Voting for each poll starts in the morning and ends at midnight so you have one day to cast your vote before the next poll starts the following day.

The participants will be revealed each day when the group is posted up and the tournament will run between Mondays-Fridays.
There’s going to be lots of ways to get involved on the site and on twitter, we will be looking for posters to champion some of the participants come the later stages and promote their competitor to the rest of the site, so make your posts throughout the tournament interesting, opinionated and thought provoking and you may be asked to champion a finalist.

The competition will begin on Monday 7th January so make sure your online and ready to debate on who gets your vote and progresses on the road to become V2’s Greatest of All Time.

Not an easy guy to warm to Piggott, virtually autistic personality wise. Not great at remembering the tax bill either.

Are we not looking for greatest sportsman of all-time? That being the case if McCoy qualifies with half the riding experience and achievements then surely Piggott should as well. As for autistic. Afraid not his way of speaking was mainly because he was all but deaf in one ear after almost losing it. Renowned as a master tactician in the saddle and called 'The Housewives Choice'. Yes he was convicted of tax evasion but was punished bt being stripped of his knighthood and serving time in prison. This didn't deter him as he came back to ride more classic winners.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be on the list, just that he's not a bloke I could ever warm to. But to be fair I'm no racing fan.

I'd hazard a guess that there are many in this poll that dont endear themselves to a number of posters.

has anyone managed to add the losers from each round on to the journal pages?

True enough. As I've mentioned earlier the guy voted greatest equestrian of the 20th century is Mark Todd, I'd have to consider eventing more of a skill than being a jockey, but I'm pretty sure Todd won't make the top 64.

But a jockey has made the list (McCoy) and not saying he hasn't had a great career but it pales into insignificance compared to Lester Piggott. It would be akin to including David Beckham in the list but omitting Pele.

CaledonianCraig wrote:But a jockey has made the list (McCoy) and not saying he hasn't had a great career but it pales into insignificance compared to Lester Piggott. It would be akin to including David Beckham in the list but omitting Pele.

You have seen the list then.......

Group 8:
David Beckham
Raymond Van Barneveld
Scott Hastings
Red Rum

Adam D wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:But a jockey has made the list (McCoy) and not saying he hasn't had a great career but it pales into insignificance compared to Lester Piggott. It would be akin to including David Beckham in the list but omitting Pele.

You have seen the list then.......

Group 8:
David Beckham
Raymond Van Barneveld
Scott Hastings
Red Rum

Red Rum's the stand out in that one.

Isn't comparing jumps and the flat a bit like comparing rugby to football ?

Perhaps it is but in that case have one national hunt jockey and one flat jockey. After all we have already had two American Footballers. In any case Piggott not only rode big race winners here but all over the world in Ireland, France, Italy, Germany, Canada, USA and Australia etc.

I would say Lester is the outstanding British athlete of the 20th century - worldwide pre-eminence, and longevity trumps the likes of Hobbs, Redgrave, Bannister among others.

Coe trumps Piggott for me I'm afraid. Quite a few others as well, Ben Ainslie for one. I'm not all for the pilot theory but it plays a big part in the sports it effects. So I can have Piggott and Senna etc in my 64 but that's about as far as any of them go for me.

Yup, Coe would be in my top ten.
But Ainslie is as much a pilot as Piggott, more so in some opinions.

kwinigolfer wrote:Yup, Coe would be in my top ten.
But Ainslie is as much a pilot as Piggott, more so in some opinions.

As a sailor I highly resent that comment, I'm allergic to horse's so haven't riden one since I was being led around on ponies as a kid so I can't comment on what it is like to ride one phyisically but sailing, while maybe more tactical in light airs, is a very physical sport in heavy winds, particuarly when you sail the monster of the boat Anisle is most famously associated with the Finn and if you employ his downwind sail-pumping techniques which I assure you is exhausting (and I don't do it anywhere near as well as he does).

Nah. All the Olympic boats are the same spec Kwini, they are just tools like a set of golf clubs or a cricket bat. His Americas cup career if it takes off could be judged that way but not the Olympic element.

The point here is that McCoy is in the list as a jockey -fair enough. But how long has McCoy been riding big race winners - twenty years maximum. Lester Piggott rode his first big race winner in 1954 and his final big race win came in 1992. Eleven times champion jockey, rode 30 classic winners and that is just in this country.

House,
You make it sound like horse race tracks are indoors, with climate controls. Dear oh dear.
Someone mentioned earlier about Lester's falls and almost losing his ear.
That wasn't in a fall, it was when an unruly animal tried to extricate itself from the stalls at Epsom - almost severed Lester's lug'ole, but 32 stitches sewed it back on again.

Anyway, when I was a lad the guy at the helm of the Isle Of Wight ferry was a dab hand at manoeuvring into the slipway at Portsmouth Harbour - could have been Ainslie's grandad of course.

(We have enough allusions to pumping techniques, exhausting or otherwise, on the golf board - you'd be right at home.)

In addition he rode his first winner at the age of....get this......12!! Rode his first Derby winner aged 18.

kwinigolfer wrote:House,
You make it sound like horse race tracks are indoors, with climate controls. Dear oh dear.
Someone mentioned earlier about Lester's falls and almost losing his ear.
That wasn't in a fall, it was when an unruly animal tried to extricate itself from the stalls at Epsom - almost severed Lester's lug'ole, but 32 stitches sewed it back on again.

Anyway, when I was a lad the guy at the helm of the Isle Of Wight ferry was a dab hand at manoeuvring into the slipway at Portsmouth Harbour - could have been Ainslie's grandad of course.

(We have enough allusions to pumping techniques, exhausting or otherwise, on the golf board - you'd be right at home.)

Like I said I can't ride horse's so I cannot comment on how physical it is, though I'm not trying to imply that it isn't, but I've sailed boats all my life and people underestimate the level of physicallity involved.

I feel I may have mis-understood this pilot theory youself and diggers were talking about, i assumed you were implying that there sporting achivements were based on there equipment and no physical endevour, upon reading diggers last comment I see that I was mistaken.

To be honest the fact that the best jockeys careers go on so long really could just confirm they get the best rides and that the best rides for the best stables get the most wins.

I would agree it depends on the mounts but Lester Piggott was freelance if I remember correctly for the latter part of his career. The mounts you wanted to be on were owned by Arab giants such as Sheikh Mohammed, the Agha Khan and Maktoum Al Maktoum and those rides chiefly went to Pat Eddery, Walter Swinburn and Steve Cauthen. In any case could we not make that same argument that motor racing drivers only excel in the right car but we still have them in this list. For sheer longevity of career, the amazing landmarks he set, the fact that he adopted a riding style that became synonymous with him and the mind-blowing achievements then if he isnt in the list yet McCoy is kind of tells me we should disqualify Maradona and replace him with Gazza for example.

But as we agree Gazza and Maradona same sport, jumps and the flat not so. Drop Piggott and AP and replace them with a true equestrian in a sport not ran by the bookies, Mark Todd.
Anyway I thought it was confirmed Piggott was in so you should hold back the eulogy for your piece on him Craig, don't let all the good stuff go now.

Okey dokey Diggers. Equestrianism also has a number of contenders but again how much is about the horse??

Lester certainly had retainers at various times, to Noel Murless, Vincent O'Brien etc, etc.

One could also say that Lester would have had hundreds more winners had he been able to ride at a lower weight - other side of the ledger is that he may not have had the uncommon strength that he brought to his mount.

All opinions, but this is not: To exclude Lester from the top 64 would be to devalue the entire enterprise.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Okey dokey Diggers. Equestrianism also has a number of contenders but again how much is about the horse??

True enough though I think in eventing in the show jumping you have to do a round on a drawn horse at some events, not the Olympics but maybe the worlds. Could be making that up though.

Digs,
There's plenty of times the top jockeys, any jockeys really, ride mounts they've never seen before . . . . . . . Same thing, surely?

Not really, they didn't have to take the ride, whereas its part of the competition to ride an unknown horse in the scenario I mentioned.
Though at the end of day as you say the horse plays its part...unlike an inert Finn or Laser dinghy.

I am pretty sure though that sometimes one jockey could ride a horse successfully for four or tive races but then when a new jockey takes up the ride he has fared less well. Chemistry, trust etc between jockey and mount plays its part.

I'd be suprised if Piggott ever rode a horse on a classic that he wasn't fairly familiar with even if not his first choice.

Not going to go through all Lester's thousands of triumphs, but I'm pretty sure that he'd never been on Roberto before the 1972 Derby which he somehow contrived to cajole home by a head.
Doubtless there are dozens of similar examples, such was the manic compulsion by owners and trainers to secure Lester's services.

Not just that but for every great horse he rode to victory I would bet he had a mulish, petulant horse that he had to struggle with but managed to win races with them.

That's the stuff of legends Kwini..though its amazing how often legends are embellished. I bet he had a few rides on the gallops the week before.

Lets not forget he stood above the rest as a jockey and this was at a time when we were awash with jockeys who themselves can be classed as greats of the sport. Jockeys such as Pat Eddery, Willie Carson, Joe Mercer, Steve Cauthen, Walter Swinburn, Sir Gordon Richards etc etc. He competed against them all and even they would admit he was the greatest.

Digs,
I'll call him to check, hope he remembers. Might have to consult Julian Wilson's bio first.
But it wasn't embellished when I saw it on my black and white TV - very unlikely he'd had more than the most cursory introduction due to the very unpopular circumstances which got him the ride, jobbing off Bill Williamson.

Lester was just as much a living, breathing legend when he rode as that Woods fellow has been on the golfcourse. Just when you think he couldn't improve the extraordinary, that's exactly what he does. (Or in both cases I suppose, used to.)

Craig,
Lester was different class to any of that lot, all but Richards of whom I saw dozens of times, except Cauthen - just a few in his case.

Yes but my point is that those names are legends in the sport and still Lester towered above them. That is the mind-boggling thing.

Craig

I remembers watching Liz Taylor win a big race once, it can't be that hard surely.

Diggers wrote:I remembers watching Liz Taylor win a big race once, it can't be that hard surely.

She and the horse were running away from John Terry - that is tantamount to pumping the horse full off testosterone and strapping a rocket to its belly.

A friend of mine who is a racing expert rates Piggott the greatest ever, even worked for him for a while for free to learn as much as he could. I've no issue with him in the top 64 really.
But overall I'd have the pilots like F1 drivers, motorbikes and jockeys above the parlour game boys like snooker and darts but well behind athletes , tennis players , footballers etc.

It might be interesting to have a debate on which is the greatest of all time sport..

the 'piloting' sportsman can only ever tell us half the story of there own success.

games like darts, snooker , 10 pin bowling are perhaps to basic.. the fact is these are games where perfection can be acheived.. There have been cases of amatuers in each sport that have had a 9 darter a 147 or a 300 in each game.. That being the case do the sports push the players boundaries enough.

Then we have SR's argument(not something i agree with) but i suppose its valid- certain sports like golf arnt physical enough and dont require as much fitness as a game like tennis for example..

then we have team sports- how reliant are these players on there team mates??

athletics/swimming are sports that has clear acheivements- its measured in length or time. Very simple to work out 100% who was the fastest or who jumped the longest or who threw the longest. But in a single event how much skill level is there.

A decathlete could certainly be considered a serious competitor and sportsmen but then we also have the problem that they are a jack of all- master of none..

then we need the sport to be truely global- sports like football, tennis and golf are

Gonna say and as much as I dont like my outcome..

Tennis wins.

global, competitive, skillfull, need to be fit, not reliant on others

Round 2....rain delay? Floodlight failure? stewards enquiry? Match 8 & 9 gone into extra time?

JAS - don't worry. Garry Sobers is still to come. He'll get the run rate back up!

What's the sketch with vote rig gate?