Ireland Back 3 options

First topic message reminder :

So this is a conversation that was started on an Ulster thread about who will end up in the back 3 during the 6N for Ireland.
Presuming that Kidney choses Darcy-BOD or Marshall-BOD as his centre partnership with Murray and Sexton as halfbacks what should his back 3 be?

There are so many options and it is one of the areas where Ireland look ok depth wise with the emergence of some really good young guys.

Kearney: One of the best 15's in the world and favourite for the Lions shirt. Great aerial skills and great kicker. Over the last few years he has started entering the line intelligently and has made a lot of line breaks.

McFadden: Huge work ethic, most of his game time this year despite BOD's injury has been on the wing. Very strong in contact and good under the high ball. Quick without being lightening as NZ demonstrated during the Summer but people have questions about his defence.

Zebo: One of Ireland's best players IMO. Has improved no end since last season marrying an instinctive running game with a more balanced decision making quality and more practiced basics. Huge boot and very quick. Confident which is arguably the most important factor. Could play 15 or wing.

Earls: Will be competing with BOD, Darcy and Marshall for a centre position where he has played nearly all his rugby this year but could fill in at wing or 15 where personally I feel he is better. Very quick and elusive with a very good strike rate.

Trimble: Very good for Ulster currently but was dropped by Kidney in the AI's for Gilroy. Trimble doesn't have a great try scoring rate and isn't the most incisive winger but his basics are rock solid and he is very strong defensively. Could be used as a target for the backs due to his physicality.

Gilroy: Mister Flair. Exceptionally quick. Exceptionally illusive. Deceptively strong. He is by far the best attacker in Ireland however there are questions regarding his defence.

So what do people think, place your votes and then give us your reasoning maybe throw in a bench option too!

It was BOD's first game back. He was actually looking particularly sharp and full of steps and tricks just before he got injured. But he is 30+. Which would be less of a problem if he had a younger pacey powerful centre partner. But we're playing two 30+ guys who've lost pace and are actually very small for modern centres anyway. Even worse, in that RWC quarter final we threw in ROG and had three going over the hill 30+ guys in the middle who really lacked any power or pace and Wales took us to the cleaners down the middle.

I'd go for Marshall/BOD or BOD/Earls. BOD still brings his leadership, ability to put others in space and a nose for the line. But the D'arcy/BOD combo is too impotent in attack now, even if they do actually still have some defensive nous.

Notch wrote:Lovely score from Trimble last night;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW0RnbGnVGo

He was superb last night, really think he needs to start in the six nations, we need his strength.

Feckless Rogue wrote:It was BOD's first game back. He was actually looking particularly sharp and full of steps and tricks just before he got injured. But he is 30+. Which would be less of a problem if he had a younger pacey powerful centre partner. But we're playing two 30+ guys who've lost pace and are actually very small for modern centres anyway. Even worse, in that RWC quarter final we threw in ROG and had three going over the hill 30+ guys in the middle who really lacked any power or pace and Wales took us to the cleaners down the middle.

I'd go for Marshall/BOD or BOD/Earls. BOD still brings his leadership, ability to put others in space and a nose for the line. But the D'arcy/BOD combo is too impotent in attack now, even if they do actually still have some defensive nous.

Bod will always show bits of class because he is such a great player, but I don't think he was particularly sharp before he got injured. The smallness of our backs in general is why I think Trimble needs to play. Sexton is quite big and strong for a ten, and Murray gives bulk as well, but like you say our real problem has been lack of pace in the centres. I just think there is definitely a real opportunity to go for the huge gamble on Marshall Earls, because really its not that big a gamble. By all means have Bod on the bench if its going horribly wrong.

valjester wrote:

Notch wrote:Lovely score from Trimble last night;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW0RnbGnVGo

He was superb last night, really think he needs to start in the six nations, we need his strength.

Feckless Rogue wrote:It was BOD's first game back. He was actually looking particularly sharp and full of steps and tricks just before he got injured. But he is 30+. Which would be less of a problem if he had a younger pacey powerful centre partner. But we're playing two 30+ guys who've lost pace and are actually very small for modern centres anyway. Even worse, in that RWC quarter final we threw in ROG and had three going over the hill 30+ guys in the middle who really lacked any power or pace and Wales took us to the cleaners down the middle.

I'd go for Marshall/BOD or BOD/Earls. BOD still brings his leadership, ability to put others in space and a nose for the line. But the D'arcy/BOD combo is too impotent in attack now, even if they do actually still have some defensive nous.

Bod will always show bits of class because he is such a great player, but I don't think he was particularly sharp before he got injured. The smallness of our backs in general is why I think Trimble needs to play. Sexton is quite big and strong for a ten, and Murray gives bulk as well, but like you say our real problem has been lack of pace in the centres. I just think there is definitely a real opportunity to go for the huge gamble on Marshall Earls, because really its not that big a gamble. By all means have Bod on the bench if its going horribly wrong.

I found myself nodding as I read the post even though it was disagreeing with my post. You make good points. On Trimble's size as well as the new centre partnership.

But I'll always be a hopeless BOD fan boy. After he retires I'll probably still believe he could jump out of the pundits box and score us the winning try.

Feckless Rogue wrote:


I found myself nodding as I read the post even though it was disagreeing with my post. You make good points. On Trimble's size as well as the new centre partnership.

But I'll always be a hopeless BOD fan boy. After he retires I'll probably still believe he could jump out of the pundits box and score us the winning try.

With Poc looking like he'll be lucky to play again, and Bod coming to the end, there will be a really sad day soon enough when they are both finished. However, looking on the bright side it might lead to us having a better team, because we will rely on the team as a whole rather than two of our greatest ever players dragging us up to the level of the rest of the world, for the past ten years we've relied ridiculously heavily on the two of them, if they are even half way fit they've been in the side due to their importance and the fact that we are half the team without either one of them. They dragged us up to the standard of the rest, now we can put out 15 good players instead of relying on 2 great players to drag us along.

valjester wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:


I found myself nodding as I read the post even though it was disagreeing with my post. You make good points. On Trimble's size as well as the new centre partnership.

But I'll always be a hopeless BOD fan boy. After he retires I'll probably still believe he could jump out of the pundits box and score us the winning try.

With Poc looking like he'll be lucky to play again, and Bod coming to the end, there will be a really sad day soon enough when they are both finished. However, looking on the bright side it might lead to us having a better team, because we will rely on the team as a whole rather than two of our greatest ever players dragging us up to the level of the rest of the world, for the past ten years we've relied ridiculously heavily on the two of them, if they are even half way fit they've been in the side due to their importance and the fact that we are half the team without either one of them. They dragged us up to the standard of the rest, now we can put out 15 good players instead of relying on 2 great players to drag us along.

I can see that day coming in the next 6 months which is quite sad I think. POC will be doing well to make it to enxt season and BOD looks like he may finish at the Lions.

Also, BOD was playing some pretty good stuff when he got injured. I don't think he played well last night, but he got a full 80mins and he will be playing next week and the week after and will improve hugely (as he always does when he comes back from injury)

Something that was pointed out on the Ulster thread was how great it is for Jackson to be getting so much experience (top level experience at that) with a very strong experienced player inside him to take the pressure off him when necessary.

For that reason I think BOD should start with Marshall who is by far and away the most in form centre in the country at the moment. Neither Earls or BOD are real 12's, so I'd put an actual one in there who is doing well and will be the Irish 12 for quite a long time I think, so getting him vital experience with BOD could be a great call as it will mean that BOD can ease the transition for Marshall

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
I can see that day coming in the next 6 months which is quite sad I think. POC will be doing well to make it to enxt season and BOD looks like he may finish at the Lions.

Also, BOD was playing some pretty good stuff when he got injured. I don't think he played well last night, but he got a full 80mins and he will be playing next week and the week after and will improve hugely (as he always does when he comes back from injury)

Something that was pointed out on the Ulster thread was how great it is for Jackson to be getting so much experience (top level experience at that) with a very strong experienced player inside him to take the pressure off him when necessary.

For that reason I think BOD should start with Marshall who is by far and away the most in form centre in the country at the moment. Neither Earls or BOD are real 12's, so I'd put an actual one in there who is doing well and will be the Irish 12 for quite a long time I think, so getting him vital experience with BOD could be a great call as it will mean that BOD can ease the transition for Marshall

It would be hard to argue against that partnership, but it is the conservative selection, not as conservative as Darcy Bod, but conservative all the same. I'd love for us to just say f**k it and give youth its chance, sure it might not work out in the first match but give it time and it could be excellent.

I think from a Leinster perspective I've noticed that doesn't benefit the team or the player. Guys like Conway play in a somewhat second string team and don't get the same experience that he would if he had guys like BOD and Kearney to play outside of.

In contrast Jackson plays all the big games and already was starting to when IHumph was at Ulster he gets that big game experience, with the first team, against top opposition but he has that safety net in terms of decision making and game management in Pienaar.

Maybe it is conservative to play BOD with a young guy, but particular with a young guy who has not been capped having such an experienced guy outside him will make that step up a little bit easier

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think from a Leinster perspective I've noticed that doesn't benefit the team or the player. Guys like Conway play in a somewhat second string team and don't get the same experience that he would if he had guys like BOD and Kearney to play outside of.

In contrast Jackson plays all the big games and already was starting to when IHumph was at Ulster he gets that big game experience, with the first team, against top opposition but he has that safety net in terms of decision making and game management in Pienaar.

Maybe it is conservative to play BOD with a young guy, but particular with a young guy who has not been capped having such an experienced guy outside him will make that step up a little bit easier

Ah come on that is a bit of a strawman argument. Playing Marshall outside Sexton and with Earls along with a full strength Irish team is not comparable to Conway playing in a second choice Leinster side. And in fairness Madigan hasn't exactly suffered in that Leinster second string side, different players thrive in different teams, Marshall would have no problem playing in a full strength Irish side.

Yeah ok good point in all fairness.

A full strength Irish side does include O'Driscoll and on the basis of the game we both just watched would not want me to put Earls in the team

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Yeah ok good point in all fairness.

A full strength Irish side does include O'Driscoll and on the basis of the game we both just watched would not want me to put Earls in the team

Yep, but it is incredibly harsh to judge him based on the halfback pairing he was playing outside of, god help us if Sexton gets injured early on in a match and Rog comes on. To be fair earls passed well and made his tackles, but god the AllBlacks would struggle with Rog at ten being fed by Williams.

Again that is fair enough

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Again that is fair enough

Its a bit depressing really, isn't it?

Madigan should be on the bench ahead of both ROG and Jackson. He is still performing really well and is learning how to control games as he showed against Connacht in the RDS.

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Again that is fair enough

Its a bit depressing really, isn't it?

Aye man it is. Keep the chin up and the legs moving!
Start trying to sweet talk some top notch coaches and letting them know how great Ireland is and how O'Driscoll has years left

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Again that is fair enough

Its a bit depressing really, isn't it?

Aye man it is. Keep the chin up and the legs moving!
Start trying to sweet talk some top notch coaches and letting them know how great Ireland is and how O'Driscoll has years left

I think that the Ireland coaching job would be an excellent position for any coach to get, even if Bod and Poc, and possibly Ferris, are gone. There is a huge amount of young talent around the country at the moment. There is great potential in the team, but looking around at candidates who will be available and I'm not overly enthused tbh.

Penney must be wondering why he took the Munster job, I really refuse to believe that he is picking Rog of his own free choice, and praying that he gets free reign to choose his team next season. He is in a poor enough position as well in terms of the media, they love Rog and they all wanted Foley to be given the job. If he doesn't make the play offs a lot of pressure will come on him, unfortunately.

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Again that is fair enough

Its a bit depressing really, isn't it?

Aye man it is. Keep the chin up and the legs moving!
Start trying to sweet talk some top notch coaches and letting them know how great Ireland is and how O'Driscoll has years left

I think that the Ireland coaching job would be an excellent position for any coach to get, even if Bod and Poc, and possibly Ferris, are gone. There is a huge amount of young talent around the country at the moment. There is great potential in the team, but looking around at candidates who will be available and I'm not overly enthused tbh.

Penney must be wondering why he took the Munster job, I really refuse to believe that he is picking Rog of his own free choice, and praying that he gets free reign to choose his team next season. He is in a poor enough position as well in terms of the media, they love Rog and they all wanted Foley to be given the job. If he doesn't make the play offs a lot of pressure will come on him, unfortunately.

I agree the Irish job must look pretty attractive to some considering youth systems and general low level of expectations cuurently.

Penny.

Hmmm.

I was delighted Foley didn't get the job because I think Munster need to get away from their traditional roots as much as possible because it is no longer a viable way to win a higher percentage of rugby games.

Penny I didn't know that well but went and looked at Cantenbury a bit and was impressed.

I think Penny has got the cart before the horse with Munster though. He is trying too much too quickly. The Munster players I believe a lower level of handling skills than the other provinces. I think this is part of the "Munster culture" where power, commitment, rucking, tackling were the important attributes/attitudes. There are a number of guys who don't seem to be able to realise where space is or make decisions. We see that all the time, a move is called and carried through no matter if the first receiver could walk through the defence himself.

Penny has got the cart before the horse because he is implementing systems without firstly upskilling all of his players. It has to be all (1-15) for his method (which is questionable) of play to work.

What I am saying is I am not sure if Penny is the guy to change Munster. If someone else had upskilled them he'd be great to come in at that stage but I now do not believe that he (and to a very large degree Mannix) are going to be the revolution that Munster want.

Yes it is very early and they are still feeling out systems and some guys like Keatley, POM, Kilcoyne are only going to get better and absorb more of his ideals but I think his goal is wrong and how he is trying to achieve it is wrong

Current season apps and Trys

Kearney - 2 (0)
Earls - 5+1 (1)
Zebo - 10 (3)
McFadden - 11 (4)
Trimble - 12+1 (7)
Gilroy - 8+7 (2)

I'd start the 6n with
11 - Zebo
14 - Trimble
15 - Kearney

23 - Earls

Trimble has played far better than Gilroy for Ulster and I would say he is the form winger in Ireland. Unfortunately he hardly ever gets any ball to work with for Ireland compared to Ulster. Also convinced he performs better on the right.
Kearney is the best fullback in the Isles. nuff said
Good to have Earls on the bench for his versatility - interestingly his try scoring has been poor for Munster over the past few seasons, probably several reasons for this.

12 Marshall - no reason why not
13 BOD

Madigan must get 22 shirt as well

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
I agree the Irish job must look pretty attractive to some considering youth systems and general low level of expectations cuurently.

Penny.

Hmmm.

I was delighted Foley didn't get the job because I think Munster need to get away from their traditional roots as much as possible because it is no longer a viable way to win a higher percentage of rugby games.

Penny I didn't know that well but went and looked at Cantenbury a bit and was impressed.

I think Penny has got the cart before the horse with Munster though. He is trying too much too quickly. The Munster players I believe a lower level of handling skills than the other provinces. I think this is part of the "Munster culture" where power, commitment, rucking, tackling were the important attributes/attitudes. There are a number of guys who don't seem to be able to realise where space is or make decisions. We see that all the time, a move is called and carried through no matter if the first receiver could walk through the defence himself.

Penny has got the cart before the horse because he is implementing systems without firstly upskilling all of his players. It has to be all (1-15) for his method (which is questionable) of play to work.

What I am saying is I am not sure if Penny is the guy to change Munster. If someone else had upskilled them he'd be great to come in at that stage but I now do not believe that he (and to a very large degree Mannix) are going to be the revolution that Munster want.

Yes it is very early and they are still feeling out systems and some guys like Keatley, POM, Kilcoyne are only going to get better and absorb more of his ideals but I think his goal is wrong and how he is trying to achieve it is wrong

I completely disagree that his goal is wrong, what else could he have as his goal under than to try and get Munster playing a 15 man game. I'll also disagree with you on the Munster players being less skilled than the other provinces, especially the younger ones. Most of the younger ones all got the ball skills to play this type of game. Their major problems are at 10 and 12. They are not going to progress until that axis changes.


Edit;Also to add on Foley, it was much too early for him to be made a head coach, but to say its because he would have kept Munster at their traditional routes does him an injustice. Foley was the type of player who was always going to become a good coach, he always relied on intelligence over an abundance of physical prowess. He has been good in every role he has had at Munster, and when the time comes he will make a good head coach for whoever he goes to. He is smart enough to move with the times, adapt a game plan around the players he has and what is need, and he is a ruthless b**tard who loves to win above all.

I think we may just have to agree to disagree on a few of those points so Val

15 Kearney
14 GIlroy
11 Zebo

westisbest wrote:15 Kearney
14 GIlroy
11 Zebo

Yeah i would go with that as well.

This would be my 9 to 15

09 : Murray
10 : Sexton
12 : Madigan
13 : Earles (cant see BOD being fully match fit in time)
11 : Zebo
14 : Gilroy
15 : Kearney

I think that Madigan would do well at 12 and could interchange at 10 with Sexton...

O'Driscoll played the full game on Friday didn't he I think he should be fully fit and I don't like Earls at centre when O'Driscoll is fit. He would add much in defence also I'd rather play Marshall who has been playing well at 12 and is a natural 12, International isn't really a place to be testing people in new positions, presuming off course he is fit to play.

Neil,

Madigan has played many times at 12 so its not something thats new to him and why not try something like that? Two very exciting players with a great understanding of eachothers game at 10 and 12 and can also be interchangable. Marshall does deserve his chance though, i agree there but i would only have him on the bench at first.

BOD did not look very good on Friday and i feel he has a mountain to climb to be not only fully match fit but in form which is why i would like to see Earles start there.

eirebilly wrote:Neil,

Madigan has played many times at 12 so its not something thats new to him and why not try something like that? Two very exciting players with a great understanding of eachothers game at 10 and 12 and can also be interchangable. Marshall does deserve his chance though, i agree there but i would only have him on the bench at first.

BOD did not look very good on Friday and i feel he has a mountain to climb to be not only fully match fit but in form which is why i would like to see Earles start there.

But Earls didnt play well either yesterday. Lets wait until after the two HC rounds to see if BOD is match fit.

Oh and when have you seen Madigan play 12 (Unless he moved there when he came on against embra? but its too hard to tell.)He usually moves to the 10 postion whenever he and sexton are on the field together which is very rare.

Earles wasnt too bad i thought. This is not Munster bias here, i just feel that unless BOD is match fit and in form then Earles is the best option. I am not slating BOD but feel that his time is coming to an end, happens to all the greats eventually and it may be time to look to the future somewhat.

As for Madigan, i am sure that he played 12 as a junior and has also played at 12 for Leinster with Sexton at 10. I have even seen him play 10 at Leinster with Sexton moving to 12. Correct me if i am wrong but i could swear that i have seen that before...

What i have seen is that when on the same field, Sexton and Madigan interchange well.

I should clarify that i mean when Madigan has been playing 10 and Sexton 12 that they interchange well.

Sexton has played 10 with Madigan at 12 but never from the start.
Nice idea though.

I think Earls has been pretty poor all season. In the first 50 seconds last night he got handed off and left on the floor and then 2 minutes later he threw the ball in to touch.

I just amn't a fan of his as a 13 but hopefully he can put in two good games in the HCup now. He is fighting for an Irish place and also for a Lions place both of which are in serious danger

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Marshall
13. BOD
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

23. Earls/McFadden

That would be my backline. With Bowe out i think Trimble's power could be important plus hes playing brilliantly and outshining Gilroy.

I didnt think McFadden was really up to International level but hes been playing out of his skin lately and I would like to see him in and around the matchday squad. So not really pushed which of him and Earls gets the 23 jersey.

I agree with Pete I honestly think Earls is a great winger as a winger I think he is more than capable of getting in the Irish team but I remain thoroughly unconvinced about him at 13 and certainly don't believe playing 2 young guys especially one who by all accounts hasn't played that many times at 12 with a back 3 that is bar Kearney also young a great idea. I think if we did our defense could be seriously compromised. It's a better idea I think to have a young guy alongside O'Driscoll (probably Marshall) so he can learn from him while he is still there, like Ulster have with Pienaar and Jackson which is undoubtedly benefiting Jackson no end.

Ok, just for arguements sake. Should BOD not be fit, in bad form or (shudder) gets a new injury, who should play at 13 then?

I honestly do feel that Earles is a good 13.

Neil, i was just trying to think outside the box wit my Madigan at 12 idea and i honestly do feel that a Sexton 10 Madigan 12, or otherway around, would be a very decent attacking threat. Marshall is playing well and deserves to be on the bench at least.

Not a bad idea for an outside the box idea I feel.

shudder is right, Earls would be the 12 as Cave is not doing well and Bowe is injured. I really hate Earls as a 13 I think he wastes his own talents and inhibits others but do agree he is 2nd/3rd best option

We will again agree to disagree on Earles pete, we will simply never agree on this

What money (If Kidney doesnt select ROG and picks Madigan for the bench) that we will see a Sexton - Madigan 10 - 12 or 12 - 10 combination during the 6N?
Kidney first has to not select ROG which i dont think will happen.

Man put a €2 bet on that you will win millions

What on, Kidney not selecting ROG or that Madigan and Sexton will play 10-12 at some stage during the 6N?

Kidney will never drop ROG

Either tbh

Oh if O'Driscoll is out then Earls has to play 13 but if that happens you can be guaranteed D'Arcy will play beside him. Cave hasn't done as well as he can this year so Earls probably has to be your 13 if Drico is out but it doesn't mean I have to think he is any better at it. Marshall wouldn't make the bench if he didn't start I don't think because he can't cover wing or fullback so if you didn't have him starting you would be better with an Earls or McFadden on the bench to cover.

Marshall has to get surgery and is out for up to 6 weeks. I doubt he will be involved in the 6n now, which is a huge shame.

no, no Roddersm, it's Luke not Paul...

Thats worse!.... thank feic for Paddy Wallace.... ....

Kearney at 15, Trimble and Gilroy at 11/14 for me. Zebo should be considered Kearneys understudy, he proved himself in the autumn series. Earls has become a utility back, so might be a good bench option. I'm not sure which is his best position either.

As an Ulster fan my thoughts on Gilroy versus Trimble..

Trimble has outscored Gilroy 7 tries to 2 this year, but the way we attack under Anscombe hasn't suited Gilroy as much. He's a fantastic player but he doesn't get the amount of ball in his hands he needs to really hurt teams in broken field.

Our backline stands very flat on the gainline, we go through multi-phase attacks and vary it a lot between our forwards and backs. This suits Trimbles skill set, he can come off his wing and run hard, he can link play up. Trimble is more valuable to Ulster than Gilroy, he's been a better player for us this season. Bowe hasn't played much for us but it would be hard for him to touch Trimble when we're playing this brand of rugby.

Ireland don't play smart rugby like that. We play stupid, basic rugby. No forwards and backs interlinking bar the odd burst from a backrow. No support lines like Ulster and Leinster run. Backline stands deep and we ship it on. Our wingers stay on the wing. They stand deep and static on their wing and wait for the ball. They don't even chase kicks down the way Ulster do- the way Trimble has done so well for Ulster this season- because our kicking game isn't as good.

So they are out there on the wing, having very little impact on the game, and hopefully when they do get the ball, they do something special with it. Thats our gameplan for our wingers.

I honestly believe that right now- Andrew Trimble is a better all round rugby player than Craig Gilroy. But Gilroy has got something Trimble doesn't, a certain X-factor. And Trimble can't play his natural game for Ireland, he's a square peg in a round hole. We aren't well coached in the backs. We want players who can come onto the ball from deep and create something from nothing. For Ireland, that means Gilroy and Zebo.

For Ulster? Trimble is ahead of Gilroy in the pecking order all season long. No worries there. The right call was made when he started ahead of him at Franklins Gardens and I would have Trimble higher up the queue for a Lions place too. But I feel like the way we play the game negates his strengths. Gilroy for Ireland.

Admittedly it's easier said than done but with 49 international caps I think Trimble's had his chance to prove himself.

He has proved himself.

this is a tough call gents

i think kearney is too good and proven to leave out. Zebo and Gilroy for me. They are young and very exciting. It is harsh on Trimble who has been in great form for Ulster. Zebo and Gilroy have been better in the green though. It leaves us with a small backline but that may suit the style of rugby we should be attempting to play

A vicious call on the bench for the 23 jersey between mcfadden,trimble and earls. Id go for Mc Fadden

Notch wrote:As an Ulster fan my thoughts on Gilroy versus Trimble..

Trimble has outscored Gilroy 7 tries to 2 this year, but the way we attack under Anscombe hasn't suited Gilroy as much. He's a fantastic player but he doesn't get the amount of ball in his hands he needs to really hurt teams in broken field.

Our backline stands very flat on the gainline, we go through multi-phase attacks and vary it a lot between our forwards and backs. This suits Trimbles skill set, he can come off his wing and run hard, he can link play up. Trimble is more valuable to Ulster than Gilroy, he's been a better player for us this season. Bowe hasn't played much for us but it would be hard for him to touch Trimble when we're playing this brand of rugby.

Ireland don't play smart rugby like that. We play stupid, basic rugby. No forwards and backs interlinking bar the odd burst from a backrow. No support lines like Ulster and Leinster run. Backline stands deep and we ship it on. Our wingers stay on the wing. They stand deep and static on their wing and wait for the ball. They don't even chase kicks down the way Ulster do- the way Trimble has done so well for Ulster this season- because our kicking game isn't as good.

So they are out there on the wing, having very little impact on the game, and hopefully when they do get the ball, they do something special with it. Thats our gameplan for our wingers.

I honestly believe that right now- Andrew Trimble is a better all round rugby player than Craig Gilroy. But Gilroy has got something Trimble doesn't, a certain X-factor. And Trimble can't play his natural game for Ireland, he's a square peg in a round hole. We aren't well coached in the backs. We want players who can come onto the ball from deep and create something from nothing. For Ireland, that means Gilroy and Zebo.

For Ulster? Trimble is ahead of Gilroy in the pecking order all season long. No worries there. The right call was made when he started ahead of him at Franklins Gardens and I would have Trimble higher up the queue for a Lions place too. But I feel like the way we play the game negates his strengths. Gilroy for Ireland.

Fully agree with all of this. Gilroy has looked pretty mediocre for Ulster since his wonder game versus the Pumas and I would support your statement that it is a gameplan issue. We never really have utilised Trimble as well as possible and that is Kidney's fault I believe as with Sexton standing flat like he is capable of, Trimble would be a huge asset coming off inside shoulders or behind the centres.

Now that Marshall is effectively out of the 6N ( ) I think Gilroy and Zebo should definitely start as Darcy and BOD will play for Ireland and then we need guys in the back3 who can use a bit of stardust because they won't get any help from the guys inside them in terms of creating chances.

Darcy has looked good over the last few games however though so that is something.

I'd go for McFadden over Earls on the bench in terms of form.

Fitzy got MOTM tonight. He can still make the 6n squad.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Fitzy got MOTM tonight. He can still make the 6n squad.

Just when it couldn't get any more difficult...

Don't worry, he'll be injured by then.