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England in India ODI's

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ShankyCricket
Corporalhumblebucket
JDizzle
Duty281
Kidderlad
Shelsey93
msp83
Jetty
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler
skyeman
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England in India ODI's Empty England in India ODI's

Post by skyeman Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:39 pm

Meaker, instead of JD please for the 1st warm up on Sunday against India A.

My team:

Cook
Bell
KP
Morgan
Buttler
Kieswetter
Patel
Woakes
Meaker
Briggs
Finn

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:48 pm

Apparently Dhoni is having back trouble and Kartik will replace him for the last Pakistan game. If it turns out to be anything serious that really wont help India at all

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Post by skyeman Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:35 pm

That might improve {Dhoni missing, our poor record in ODI's, not that it means much} our chances of success for a change in India.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:40 pm

Poor record? England are currently top of the ICC ODI rankings.

Although their record in India has been woeful since Hoggard won his motorbike

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Post by skyeman Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:44 pm

As i said { in India} only 13 wins in 40, Dhoni missing who had the best ave in ODI's in 2012 and already going well with 54no in 2013 Very Happy would not harm our cause.

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Post by Jetty Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:46 pm

skyeman wrote:Meaker, instead of JD please for the 1st warm up on Sunday against India A.

My team:

Cook
Bell
KP
Morgan
Buttler
Kieswetter
Patel
Woakes
Meaker
Briggs
Finn

I see them going for Cook Bell Pietersen Morgan Buttler Patel Woakes Bresnan Tredwell Dernbach and Finn.

Patel as the 6th bowler.

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Post by skyeman Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:57 pm

I don't think Bressy deserves a spot with his bowling {batting been Poopie in all forms} very rank for the last year. Time for a new face, surely?

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Post by msp83 Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:00 pm

Don't rule anyone out when they play India in the current situation. I'd be surprised if they win anything, with the current mindset.
If MSD is missing, I hope they'll have Kohli leading the side and not Waster Gambhir or Inconsistent Sehwag.

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Post by Shelsey93 Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:31 pm

England hamstrung by their squad with regard to selection.

Cook, Bell, KP, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Patel, Woakes, Tredwell, Meaker, Finn is my preference.

Don't think we can go with Briggs (not that threatening in internationals thus far, better at T20) and Patel as our spinners, so Tredders must play. I'm somewhat worried about Woakes, but Bresnan's form means he doesn't really deserve to play. I think Buttler's done just enough to edge out Kieswetter, and don't want Morgan higher than 5 on the card (he can go in 4 or 3 if we don't lose wickets early). Thus, I come to Root at 4 - the other option is Patel but I don't really rate him.

----

England should be favourites for this series. India have been pretty poor of late, and their confidence is rock bottom. As usual we mustn't be too gung-ho: 300+ is becoming increasingly infrequent in ODIs, including in Asia. If we bat well on flat tracks against this bowling attack we'll get there without any special effort anyway.

As an interesting side note one of the ODIs is being played in Dharamsala in the Himalayan foothills. Temperatures are likely to be below, and perhaps well below 10 degrees C (tomorrow morning AccuWeather list it as 'feels like -4')! Now we know why we play Champ cricket in April... preparing our players for ODIs in India!

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:44 pm

Jetty wrote:
skyeman wrote:Meaker, instead of JD please for the 1st warm up on Sunday against India A.

My team:

Cook
Bell
KP
Morgan
Buttler
Kieswetter
Patel
Woakes
Meaker
Briggs
Finn

I see them going for Cook Bell Pietersen Morgan Buttler Patel Woakes Bresnan Tredwell Dernbach and Finn.

Patel as the 6th bowler.

No specialist spinner? Not a chance.
Either Tredwell or Briggs must play. Bloody Patel will probably get to play just for "balance" (ie having someone who wastes a spot when batting and bowling)
Its England so they will pick Bresnan ahead of Woakes for the actual ODIs regardless of who does what in the warm ups. Its a miracle hes even been allowed in the squad.


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Post by msp83 Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:52 pm

I think Tredwellis a better option than Briggs is. Don't think too much at stage of the latter. Tredwell on the other is more of a conventional spinner.

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Post by Kidderlad Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:05 pm

Shame that Bairstow couldn't be there with his problems at home. Would have liked him to have been Keeper, but I guess that we will have to have Kieswetter instead.

But I will keep Buttler in mind for the gloves as well as for his batting just in case.

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Post by skyeman Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:15 pm

Quite right, gonna swap Briggs for Tredwell because i can honestly not remember when he has let England down in his limited performances.

Eng:

Cook
Bell
KP
Morgan
Buttler
Kieswetter
Patel
Woakes
Meaker
Tredwell
Finn

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Post by skyeman Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:27 pm

Woakes bowling can not be any less threatening than Bressy's on current form and i know 100% his batting is a lot more devastating/better.

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Post by Duty281 Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:34 pm

My team then:

Cook
Bell
KP
Morgan
Buttler
Root
Patel
Woakes
Briggs
Dernbach
Finn

England to edge out India 3-2.

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Post by skyeman Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:38 pm

Not JD. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.



WHY.

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Post by skyeman Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:48 pm

JD in India, 7 matches, 81 per wkt, econ near 7.


Not much better elsewhere.



WHY.

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Post by JDizzle Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:30 am

I bet even I could do a better job than my fellow JD at the death, although Meaker is no great shakes in the shorter format either...

Cook
KP
Bell
Morgan
Buttler
Kieswetter
Woakes
Patel
Tredwell
Finn
Meaker/Dernbach

In all honesty our bowling attack will be relying on Finn to be the spearhead and if he doesn't fire then we will struggle, but when Broad and Swann come back it begins to look pretty good again.

I'd like to see KP open at some point to see if he can get us off to the flyer that we will need on some of the flatter pitches around the world. Trott to come in for Bell could happen at some point in the future, although Bell deserves his run for now.

Nice to see Buttler getting a run in the format he is at his best in. His record for Somerset and the Lions in List A is quite remarkable. And if he is going to keep wicket then that opens up another spot in the batting line up (provided Buttler is up to the job) for someone like James Taylor to come in at 5. Or someone else. But Taylor. This series could be make or break for Kies, especially is Buttler does go well.

And James Taylor should be involved, but someone obviously doesn't think he has the technique/head for international cricket and they are often right about these sorts of things.

(But they are wrong on this one Very Happy )

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:06 am

skyeman wrote:Woakes bowling can not be any less threatening than Bressy's on current form and i know 100% his batting is a lot more devastating/better.

Yep but England are incapable of picking Woakes

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Post by Duty281 Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:51 am

We've lost to India A by 50 runs, this is surely the platform for KP_fan to return!

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:14 pm

And Dernbach has had one of his better matches with the ball. He does seem able to bowl quite well about one match in four. Which is I guess what's been keeping him in the reckoning.

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Post by msp83 Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:21 pm

A decent win for India A . At least the 2nd graders are winning some practice matches. Good spell from Sreesanth, and some runs for Vijay and Mukund.

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Post by msp83 Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:31 pm

The India squad for the first 3 matches is declared.
The big news is that Virender Sehwag is axed, and I'd say its about time!. But Rohit Sharma survives for some reason, and Gautam Gambhir lives on to fight another day.
The happy news is that Cheteshwar Pujara is selected, for the first time in the ODI squad.
Would be interesting to see as to where would he bat.
As the rules have changed, a 5th propper bowler is more or less a must, although Yuvraj could be a handful against creased based style of English batting. That means Ravindra Jadeja, who has done well in the last couple of matches has to be in. Suresh Raina, despite his inconsistencies, has made decent contributions, is a good fielder, and could bowl an over or 2 from time to time.
Kohli, Yuvraj and Dhoni are automatic selections, and there have to be 4 bowlers.
Ajinkya Rahane deserves a run in the side for sure. That leaves Gambhir as the most doubtable, and if Pujara has to come in, then it might be at the top. Or perhaps Kohli should move to open in place of Gambhir, and Pujara should bat 3.

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Post by ShankyCricket Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:46 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:England hamstrung by their squad with regard to selection.

Cook, Bell, KP, Root, Morgan, Buttler, Patel, Woakes, Tredwell, Meaker, Finn is my preference.

Don't think we can go with Briggs (not that threatening in internationals thus far, better at T20) and Patel as our spinners, so Tredders must play. I'm somewhat worried about Woakes, but Bresnan's form means he doesn't really deserve to play. I think Buttler's done just enough to edge out Kieswetter, and don't want Morgan higher than 5 on the card (he can go in 4 or 3 if we don't lose wickets early). Thus, I come to Root at 4 - the other option is Patel but I don't really rate him.

----

England should be favourites for this series. India have been pretty poor of late, and their confidence is rock bottom. As usual we mustn't be too gung-ho: 300+ is becoming increasingly infrequent in ODIs, including in Asia. If we bat well on flat tracks against this bowling attack we'll get there without any special effort anyway.

As an interesting side note one of the ODIs is being played in Dharamsala in the Himalayan foothills. Temperatures are likely to be below, and perhaps well below 10 degrees C (tomorrow morning AccuWeather list it as 'feels like -4')! Now we know why we play Champ cricket in April... preparing our players for ODIs in India!
Think its too early to say that we're favourites given our ODI record in India. We've been whitewashed on our two previous ODI tours to India and lost 5-1 before that in 2006.

India maybe in poor form but I don't think this second string attack (barring Finn) is anywhere near comparable to the Pakistan attack. India beat SL 4-1 in their previous ODI series and I think SL attack is better than this second string England attack.

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Post by msp83 Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:28 am

England are playing a warm up match against Delhi today. They are 43-0 after 10 overs. Root is given a chance and KP is rested, and Cook who didn't play the first game is back leading the side and opening the batting.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:10 am

Bell is on 65 not out, looking like being our only in form batsman come Friday!

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:26 am

Bloody Patel failed again. I know he's hardly alone in doing that but whatnot earth makes them think he's a top 4 batsman let alone worthy of being on the tour. They just need to accept they don't have a batsman allrounder

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:36 am

204 with 10 overs left...bell and Morgan well set. Bit of power from keisweter and wakes still in the bag. Should post a healthy score despite losing wickets through the middle

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Post by Guest Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:42 am

good to see Root getting a go..also good to see Bell back in a bit of form!

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Post by king_carlos Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:50 am

1.Cook
2.Bell
3.KP
4.Morgan
5.Buttler
6.Kieswetter
7.Patel
8.Woakes/Bresnan
9.Tredwell
10.Meaker/Dernbach
11.Finn

With the squad limitations that would be my best bet. Good to see Bell getting runs again today, bodes well for all formats. That's a very powerful top 4 we've got with KP back as well. Without Jimmy,Swann or Broad the bowling looks weak though obviously.

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Post by Carrotdude Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:53 am

Hundred for Bell today to go with his 91 the other day, goo signs for him for the series. I like the top 6 we have at the moment with solididty in Cook and Bell followed by the power of KP, Morgan & Buttler. Once Bairstow is back and one of him/Buttler is good enough to keep wicket we'll have a very good top 6. The only trouble is none of the top 6 bowl so numbers 7-11 have to bowl their full quota of 10 overs so having Patel at 7 is a bit of a risk.

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:09 pm

Don't want Morgan 4 - if you lose 2 wickets in the powerplay I don't want him in. So Patel or Root should go 4 - Root for me, though Patel allows them to play the 5.5 bowlers you want. Briggs hasn't played in the warm-ups so won't play, I would imagine.

Buttler at 6 for me with the gloves, but I suspect Kieswettter will take them, leaving Buttler unluckily missing out altogether.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:08 pm

Depressingly they dont have a plan B for Patel, other than having KP as the option bowler which isnt likely
Looking to the first ODI heres little evidence hed get picked as a 5th bowler when theres not another all rounder in the side to give the 6th option, itll be 4 batsmen (Cook, bell, KP, Morgan) 5 bowlers keiswetter and patel
Based on the warm ups the bowlers will be Finn, Tredwell, Dernbach (the nearest thing to an effective seamer we have had in the warm ups) and possibly woakes although hes done nothing in the warm ups to deserve getting his chance finaly...but either him or Bresnan so they can pretend they have some batting in the tail.


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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:29 pm

Poor loss for England. Woakes and Meaker may well have blown their chances of making the team.
Dernbach the best figures for a seamer for the second game in a row.

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Post by Carrotdude Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:43 pm

Woakes can pretty much be considered a genuine all rounder at the moment, in fact his batting is likely to be more effective than his bowling. Something like this is likely I guess?

Cook
Bell
KP
Morgan
Patel
Kieswetter
Woakes
Bresnan
Tredwell
Dernbach
Finn

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Post by Shelsey93 Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:35 pm

Poor effort, and the bowling is a real worry. Luckily it will still be better than India's (in the seam department), but we are relying heavily on Finn and Tredwell.

Woakes's record for England is poor, which backs up my tentative assertion that he's a better red ball bowler. His and Briggs' issues at international level are quite similar: both lack that extra bit of penetration, and thus appear a bit friendly.

Dernbach has probably played his way back into the team (I rate him as a death bowler, but have big questions over his bowling as a whole). However, with Meaker not performing that well you feel you need to play him. Having had a no worse than mediocre warm-up period Bresnan should probably play to, in the hope that he can use his experience to good effect.

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Post by msp83 Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:40 pm

So England lost the 2nd warm up match as well.
Bell continued to be among the runs, and Cook got a solid start. Time out in the middle for Morgan as well. Kieswetter scored some quick runs at the end and I think that would ensure his selection for the first couple of matches over Buttler who might have to hold on a bit more.
But Delhi chased the total down at the end without a great deal of pressure. There are worrying signs for England bowling.
If India can produce something 80% close to their best game, England would be in trouble. But again, warm ups are different from actual matches, and India are pretty much down in the dumps.
Gautam Gambhir might get to start the series, but I don't think he would have more than 2 games to produce a big score and save his place in the side.
Pujara has opened in limited over List A matches in the past, and he could join Ajinkya Rahane if Gambhir continues the way he was doing for the last couple of months.

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Post by Guest Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:25 pm

not gonna get too bogged down by the result, as its only a warm up game...

focusing on the good points....good to see Ian bell back in form...has two big scores under his belt going into the series. Also good for Eoin Morgan to get a nice half-century under his belt..posting 295 is always competitive, but the bowlers need to do a lot better! Also good to see tredwell bag a couple of wickets.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:29 pm

Didn't the test warm-ups start badly as well? We all know how that turned out!

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Post by gboycottnut Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:34 pm

Duty281 wrote:Didn't the test warm-ups start badly as well? We all know how that turned out!

This reminds me of the disastrous start to the 1986 ashes tour when one cricket writer described England's then team as Can't bat,Can't bowl and Can't field!

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Post by Mike Selig Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:40 pm

I find myself reminding people (as I did before the test series BTW) that warm-up matches are important for batsmen to score runs and bowlers to get some rythm - i.e. bowl a few overs in the middle. Performance for bowlers is less important than getting overs under your belt. With that in mind, all the England bowlers have had a good work-out, Bell, Cook, Morgan and Kieswetter have all got good runs, and England will be pleased. More useful than rolling the opposition out for 80 inside 20 overs.

I would almost certainly pick Root over Patel as a top 6 player - patel can do a job at number 7, but if England don't think he can bowl 10 overs then there are better options.

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Post by gboycottnut Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:47 pm

Who are these England bowlers who are currently misfiring in these warm-ups?

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:48 pm

Shelsey93 wrote:Poor effort, and the bowling is a real worry. Luckily it will still be better than India's (in the seam department), but we are relying heavily on Finn and Tredwell.

Woakes's record for England is poor, which backs up my tentative assertion that he's a better red ball bowler. His and Briggs' issues at international level are quite similar: both lack that extra bit of penetration, and thus appear a bit friendly.

Dernbach has probably played his way back into the team (I rate him as a death bowler, but have big questions over his bowling as a whole). However, with Meaker not performing that well you feel you need to play him. Having had a no worse than mediocre warm-up period Bresnan should probably play to, in the hope that he can use his experience to good effect.
Having watched the India-Pak series I'll have to disagree. Bhuvneshwar, Ishant and Shami are far better than Dernbach and on current form, Bresnan.

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Post by msp83 Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:03 pm

England have an advantage in the seam bowling department, but that's down to Steven Finn and not Dernbach or Bresnan.
I don't know whether the likes of Buvneshwar and Shami Ahmed are better than Dernbach and Bresnan in his current form, but they certainly aren't too much behind. Bresnan has the experience, but then so does Sharma who I'd say is a better bowler than the former, although I tend to lose it when people say he's a fine potential who is unlucky!.

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Post by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:03 pm

I don't know how much the bowlers can claim rustiness after struggling again, most of them were in the odi squad and some in the test one so should've been bowling out here quite a bit in training and or matches before the short break. The Indians should be tired bored and demoralised at least

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Post by ShankyCricket Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:08 pm

msp83 wrote:England have an advantage in the seam bowling department, but that's down to Steven Finn and not Dernbach or Bresnan.
I don't know whether the likes of Buvneshwar and Shami Ahmed are better than Dernbach and Bresnan in his current form, but they certainly aren't too much behind. Bresnan has the experience, but then so does Sharma who I'd say is a better bowler than the former, although I tend to lose it when people say he's a fine potential who is unlucky!.
They surely are better than Dernbach. I mean, come on, who isn't?

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Post by gboycottnut Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:10 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I don't know how much the bowlers can claim rustiness after struggling again, most of them were in the odi squad and some in the test one so should've been bowling out here quite a bit in training and or matches before the short break. The Indians should be tired bored and demoralised at least

To be fair though, the bowlers have probably put on a bit of weight during the Christmas break from all the eating and drinking, and hence they aren't in the proper physical shape yet to bowl well at batsmen.

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Post by gboycottnut Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:11 pm

ShankyCricket wrote:
msp83 wrote:England have an advantage in the seam bowling department, but that's down to Steven Finn and not Dernbach or Bresnan.
I don't know whether the likes of Buvneshwar and Shami Ahmed are better than Dernbach and Bresnan in his current form, but they certainly aren't too much behind. Bresnan has the experience, but then so does Sharma who I'd say is a better bowler than the former, although I tend to lose it when people say he's a fine potential who is unlucky!.
They surely are better than Dernbach. I mean, come on, who isn't?
Mitchell Johnson?

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Post by msp83 Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:13 pm

Mitchell Who? The recently unearthed match winner of match-winners?

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Post by msp83 Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:17 pm

Shanky I certainly don't rate Dernbach as an international bowler. But considering Anderson and Broad aren't available, I think fair enough if England start the series with him. then from there on, its pretty much down to him.
Considering the current state of the Indian team, I won't be hugely surprised if Dernbach gets 3 back to back fifors for next to nothing.
Dernbach being Dernbach, he absolutely certainly won't be able to hold it all together for a 4th match though, even if he plays against a club side!.

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