Lennox Lewis vs The All-time Heavyweight top 10

by TRUSSMAN66 Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:48 pm

First topic message reminder :

For me old Lennox is the last great heavyweight champion.....However prime for prime this is how he fares against my top 10....

Lewis v Holy..............Think a prime Evander is to busy for Lennox...and the pace would be too hot......Holy comes on strong and wins a decision.

Lewis v Frazier............Frazier bombs out a Correa Lewis....and has a good chance against a prime one...but Lewis for me has the size and the jab to push Frazier back and Frazier wasn't good on the back foot......Lewis by decision..........

Lewis v Dempsey............Dempsey was a bully.....Whilst he was dangerous I'm not sure Lewis would be cowed, too big anyway.........Lewis by 6th round ko....

Lewis v Jeffries..........Jeffries may outlast Lewis but it's doubtful that even he could take the shots of Lewis and come on strong.....Lewis by decision....

Lewis v Marciano.......Too big...too everything.......Lewis by 10th round stoppage..

Lewis v Foreman.......Can Lewis tame Foreman early and stop him landing the shot!!! my guess is no..Foreman by ko3.............

Lewis v Holmes.........Just think Lewis is too much for old Larry........Holmes is made for Lewis..(watching Larry struggle with the taller less accomplished Bonecrusher) ......Lewis by decision

Lewis v Johnson.......Hard one this......Johnson would play cat and mouse...spoil and mess Lewis about..But for 15???????????nope
Lewis ko 12 from behind...

Lewis v Louis..........Too everything............Lewis ko 7....................

Lewis v Ali.............If Ali takes his shot (took Foreman's) then for me he outboxes Lennox and stops him late...Ali ko 12

by **ShahenshahG** Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:30 am

paperbag_puncher wrote:I'm rather ashamed of myself that the first thing I did after reading the op was hit ctrl f to search for Gordy...

With Lewis' size and skills hes potentially a match for anyone. But the fact he can be sparked by two no marks does always leave a question mark when hes fighting the best of the best.

I'd back Ali, Foreman, Liston and Holmes to beat him. He beats Marciano, Johnson and Holy and I could see the others going either way to be honest. Could never write off an explosive, accurate puncher in Louis or the likes of Jeffries or Dempsey.

Why do you have access to the sex offenders register??!

by Champagne_Socialist Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:49 am

Gordy wrote:

Holmes would beat Lewis? Give me a break. Holmes reputation was based on him beating Ali when Ali was washed up and diseased. He also got knocked out badly by Tyson who Lewis completely outclassed in pretty much the best performance I have ever seen.

Foreman would beat Lewis? Foreman was a bully like Tyson and look what happened to him when he faced Lewis. Skilled boxers like Ali knocked out Foreman just like Lewis would have. They even knocked Foreman and Tyson out respectively in the same rounds! Foreman himself said Lewis would have beaten him so what more do you want??

.

So you are rubbishing Holmes win over Ali because Ali was old and past it but yet you are bigging up Lewis's win over Tyson even tho Tyson was old and past it.

by Gordy Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:52 am

Tyson was not at all past it when Lewis beat him, this is blatant anti Lewis bias that comes from Tyson fans and Americans who would not give Lewis the respect he deserved. Look how many people thought Tyson was going to annhilate Lewis yet he was given an absolute lesson both in boxing and in mentality. Even Tyson himself was completely humbled after and gave Lewis the respect he deserved. Its just a shame that so many so called boxing fans cant.

by azania Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:02 am

Not many thought Tyson would beat Lewis because.....wait for it..... Tyson was past it.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:16 am

Gordy wrote:Tyson was not at all past it when Lewis beat him, this is blatant anti Lewis bias that comes from Tyson fans and Americans who would not give Lewis the respect he deserved. Look how many people thought Tyson was going to annhilate Lewis yet he was given an absolute lesson both in boxing and in mentality. Even Tyson himself was completely humbled after and gave Lewis the respect he deserved. Its just a shame that so many so called boxing fans cant.

Tyson was the 8-5 underdog in this fight. Some bookmakers had Lewis as 4-11 favourite. Lewis was the clear favourite and everyone knew Tyson was past it.

by JabMachineMK2 Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:54 am

Gordy wrote: Lewis himself said only Ali would have been able to beat him but that he would have fought him to make sure.

So the losses to McCall and Rahman aren't losses?

They both beat him.

My opinion should it count for much - Lewis beats all but 3 in my eyes, Ali, Holmes and maybe wrecking machine Foreman. I think Tyson mid 80's wouldn't have gotten to Lewis, he was great at countering speed, and thats what Tyson had at that time in abundance over the other heavyweights.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:12 am

Think people need to watch Holmes career before saying he beats Lewis....

Got a split against Norton, robbed Witherspoon......decked off Snipes, Shavers, Weaver...struggled with Smith's jab.....couldn't get near the china-chinned Williams and generally beat chaf in his seven year reign..

You guys are making himself out to be something he isn't..

by Imperial Ghosty Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:36 am

Legacy wise Truss the only thing that seperates the two is the manner of their defeats and the standard of those who beat them. Losing two close fights to Spinks is far more forgivable than getting knocked out by McCall and Rahman but based on actual ability and opponents beaten there isn't much in it.

Norton, Witherspoon, Shavers and Cooney being Holmes' best scalps compared to Klitschko, Ruddock, Tua and Holyfield for Lewis, to me i'd give the edge to Lewis. Especially as beyond that I think the likes of Bruno, Briggs, Grant, Golota and Tucker represent sterner tests than the Smiths, Snipes and Weavers of the world.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:27 pm

Ghosty I'm not saying Larry shouldn't be above Lewis..he should.....

However I'm suggesting that Lewis was the kind of fighter that gives Holmes nightmares......

by Imperial Ghosty Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:37 pm

I agree, I have a feeling that the brothers will go the same way as Holmes in that they'll be over rated in years to come because of the lack of recognition they got during their tenure at the top. Holmes is a mighty fine heavyweight but he wasn't all that impressive during his domination of the division he had his flaws and against someone bigger and more powerful than him they could be exposed.

by Gordy Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:55 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:
Gordy wrote: Lewis himself said only Ali would have been able to beat him but that he would have fought him to make sure.

So the losses to McCall and Rahman aren't losses?

They both beat him.

My opinion should it count for much - Lewis beats all but 3 in my eyes, Ali, Holmes and maybe wrecking machine Foreman. I think Tyson mid 80's wouldn't have gotten to Lewis, he was great at countering speed, and thats what Tyson had at that time in abundance over the other heavyweights.

The McCall fight should clearly not be a loss and neither should the first fight with Holyfield be a draw. Shocking performances from the officials with a certain Mr Don King involved.

The fight with Rahman was a case of Lewis simply being unfocussed. Its nothing like Lewis when he was on top form like he was against Tyson because Lewis was fully focussed.

Oh and Lewis won all the rematches easily. Case closed!

by DJ Legless Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:20 pm

Gordy wrote:
JabMachineMK2 wrote:
Gordy wrote: Lewis himself said only Ali would have been able to beat him but that he would have fought him to make sure.

So the losses to McCall and Rahman aren't losses?

They both beat him.

My opinion should it count for much - Lewis beats all but 3 in my eyes, Ali, Holmes and maybe wrecking machine Foreman. I think Tyson mid 80's wouldn't have gotten to Lewis, he was great at countering speed, and thats what Tyson had at that time in abundance over the other heavyweights.

The McCall fight should clearly not be a loss and neither should the first fight with Holyfield be a draw. Shocking performances from the officials with a certain Mr Don King involved.

The fight with Rahman was a case of Lewis simply being unfocussed. Its nothing like Lewis when he was on top form like he was against Tyson because Lewis was fully focussed.

Oh and Lewis won all the rematches easily. Case closed!

Case is far from closed.

It's all an well winning a rematch but at the end of the day an all time great doesn't lose to someone who most people consider a journeyman a best. An all time great wins with a bit to spare in the tank even if they aren't on their day.

by Guest Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:52 pm

victorgarco wrote:
Gordy wrote:Tyson was not at all past it when Lewis beat him, this is blatant anti Lewis bias that comes from Tyson fans and Americans who would not give Lewis the respect he deserved. Look how many people thought Tyson was going to annhilate Lewis yet he was given an absolute lesson both in boxing and in mentality. Even Tyson himself was completely humbled after and gave Lewis the respect he deserved. Its just a shame that so many so called boxing fans cant.

Tyson was the 8-5 underdog in this fight. Some bookmakers had Lewis as 4-11 favourite. Lewis was the clear favourite and everyone knew Tyson was past it.

So Gordy still convinced nobody thought Lewis would beat Tyson except for you? Tyson was well past it. Just for you Gordy my opinion was the 'peak/prime Tyson had to get Lewis out early, inside 6 or would lose on points possibly a late stoppage. On paper I feel Lewis loses to both Ali & Holmes but his physical attributes make him a tough nights work for them & you cant count him out beating Holmes.

by **ShahenshahG** Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:59 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7TBtXnnJ8

I love how Lewis leans on the referees face as if he isnt going to notice and stop the fight.

by Guest Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:08 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7TBtXnnJ8

I love how Lewis leans on the referees face as if he isnt going to notice and stop the fight.

Have to say Lewis was on shaky legs

by **ShahenshahG** Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:14 pm

look at him stumble even as the referee stops the fight. Suddenly I feel Chuvalo and Ruddock are much superior to him. Michael Moorer I suspect also but not sure - I mean even a fat Foreman is better than Rahman + Mccall. I think If Lewis hadn't ducked Ricardo Lopez - he would be just another nobody.

by TheMackemMawler Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:42 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7TBtXnnJ8

Irrespective of what we think of Lewis' chin, those two punches would have KO'd any fighter in history. McCall timed that bomb perfectly, much in the same way Marquez timed Manny.

I've said it before, getting beat by 2 KO's by mammoth punches by 2 different contenders is no worse than going tooth and nail over the distance with sub standard opposition. Those two punches were a one off (x2). No more. Freak accidents that Lewis emphatically corrected, thus, proving to everyone who was the better fighter.

Any of the guys we are pitting Lewis against has the potential to connect the bomb and KO him.

However, if Lewis fought each of the guys on the list ten times then he wins 7+ (other than Ali, perhaps).

by Gordy Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:46 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7TBtXnnJ8

Irrespective of what we think of Lewis' chin, those two punches would have KO'd any fighter in history. McCall timed that bomb perfectly, much in the same way Marquez timed Manny.

I've said it before, getting beat by 2 KO's by mammoth punches by 2 different contenders is no worse than going tooth and nail over the distance with sub standard opposition. Those two punches were a one off (x2). No more. Freak accidents that Lewis emphatically corrected, thus, proving to everyone who was the better fighter.

Any of the guys we are pitting Lewis against has the potential to connect the bomb and KO him.

However, if Lewis fought each of the guys on the list ten times then he wins 7+ (other than Ali, perhaps).

I agree but he was not knocked out against McCall. He beat the ten count, was on his feet and the ref decided not to let him continue. What is the point of having a ten count if the ref just makes up the rules.

Only Ali could beat a fully prepared Lewis.

by Lumbering_Jack Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:49 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7TBtXnnJ8

Irrespective of what we think of Lewis' chin, those two punches would have KO'd any fighter in history. McCall timed that bomb perfectly, much in the same way Marquez timed Manny.

I've said it before, getting beat by 2 KO's by mammoth punches by 2 different contenders is no worse than going tooth and nail over the distance with sub standard opposition. Those two punches were a one off (x2). No more. Freak accidents that Lewis emphatically corrected, thus, proving to everyone who was the better fighter.

Any of the guys we are pitting Lewis against has the potential to connect the bomb and KO him.

However, if Lewis fought each of the guys on the list ten times then he wins 7+ (other than Ali, perhaps).

No they wouldn't. I'd fancy a number of heavies to get up after those shots.

by **hampo17** Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:51 pm

Gordy wrote:
TheMackemMawler wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7TBtXnnJ8

Irrespective of what we think of Lewis' chin, those two punches would have KO'd any fighter in history. McCall timed that bomb perfectly, much in the same way Marquez timed Manny.

I've said it before, getting beat by 2 KO's by mammoth punches by 2 different contenders is no worse than going tooth and nail over the distance with sub standard opposition. Those two punches were a one off (x2). No more. Freak accidents that Lewis emphatically corrected, thus, proving to everyone who was the better fighter.

Any of the guys we are pitting Lewis against has the potential to connect the bomb and KO him.

However, if Lewis fought each of the guys on the list ten times then he wins 7+ (other than Ali, perhaps).

I agree but he was not knocked out against McCall. He beat the ten count, was on his feet and the ref decided not to let him continue. What is the point of having a ten count if the ref just makes up the rules.

Only Ali could beat a fully prepared Lewis.

If you beat the 10 count but are wobbling, as Lewis was, of course the ref can stop it. Not making rules up, it's the whole reason the refs say walk towards me so they can see how much they've recovered.

by Lumbering_Jack Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:53 pm

Lewis is turning into a bit of a Tyson type character. Tyson is unbeatable in his 'prime' whereas Lewis is unbeatable when 'focused'.

by TheMackemMawler Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:54 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
TheMackemMawler wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7TBtXnnJ8

Irrespective of what we think of Lewis' chin, those two punches would have KO'd any fighter in history. McCall timed that bomb perfectly, much in the same way Marquez timed Manny.

I've said it before, getting beat by 2 KO's by mammoth punches by 2 different contenders is no worse than going tooth and nail over the distance with sub standard opposition. Those two punches were a one off (x2). No more. Freak accidents that Lewis emphatically corrected, thus, proving to everyone who was the better fighter.

Any of the guys we are pitting Lewis against has the potential to connect the bomb and KO him.

However, if Lewis fought each of the guys on the list ten times then he wins 7+ (other than Ali, perhaps).

No they wouldn't. I'd fancy a number of heavies to get up after those shots.

You're correct LJ, I got carried away, I was supposed to write most boxers in history.

by Gordy Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:56 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Lewis is turning into a bit of a Tyson type character. Tyson is unbeatable in his 'prime' whereas Lewis is unbeatable when 'focused'.

Its not a myth, only Ali would beat a fully focused Lewis. Tyson was a great fighter but look what Lewis did to him. At least Tyson had the grace to accept he lost to the better man unlike all those who are biased against Lewis.

by Gordy Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:58 pm

hampo171 wrote:
Gordy wrote:
TheMackemMawler wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_F7TBtXnnJ8

Irrespective of what we think of Lewis' chin, those two punches would have KO'd any fighter in history. McCall timed that bomb perfectly, much in the same way Marquez timed Manny.

I've said it before, getting beat by 2 KO's by mammoth punches by 2 different contenders is no worse than going tooth and nail over the distance with sub standard opposition. Those two punches were a one off (x2). No more. Freak accidents that Lewis emphatically corrected, thus, proving to everyone who was the better fighter.

Any of the guys we are pitting Lewis against has the potential to connect the bomb and KO him.

However, if Lewis fought each of the guys on the list ten times then he wins 7+ (other than Ali, perhaps).

So why have the ten count? So a ref can just stop the fight if he feels like it? Hmmm, maybe Don King knew this.

I agree but he was not knocked out against McCall. He beat the ten count, was on his feet and the ref decided not to let him continue. What is the point of having a ten count if the ref just makes up the rules.

Only Ali could beat a fully prepared Lewis.

If you beat the 10 count but are wobbling, as Lewis was, of course the ref can stop it. Not making rules up, it's the whole reason the refs say walk towards me so they can see how much they've recovered.

by Lumbering_Jack Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:59 pm

Run along Gordy...

I don't particularly mind you, but your brand of wummery is boring. Need to be more subtle.

by **hampo17** Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:02 pm

You know how we sometimes mention Enzo or Khan doing the chicken dance Gordy? Well Lennox owned that dance in the clip that Mackem posted.

by Champagne_Socialist Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:05 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Run along Gordy...

I don't particularly mind you, but your brand of wummery is boring. Need to be more subtle.

Gordy is getting rather boring.

by TheMackemMawler Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:16 pm

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Lewis is turning into a bit of a Tyson type character. Tyson is unbeatable in his 'prime' whereas Lewis is unbeatable when 'focused'.

A lack of concentration seems to be part of a persons make-up. It can be improved somewhat but the person will always be prone to a temporary loss of focus (to some extent). Whether the loss of concentration is due to; not taking an opponent serious, or losing concentration in the heat of battle when the pressure is on is another debate.

Regardless of whether Lewis turns up focused (or not) he still gets KO'd a couple of times by a few on the list, however, over a ten fight tournament Lewis comes out on top over most (including Foreman) if only by exercising caution over the distance in somewhat boring fights littered with clinches.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:21 pm

Pick tyson to beat everybody on that list in his prime bar Ali!!!

and that would be close..............

Too damn fast......and powerful.......with head movement..

Certainly beats Holmes 10/10...

by Imperial Ghosty Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:32 pm

I don't think he beats Foreman all that often if i'm honest Truss but I know your feeling very well about that prospective match up.

In a weird way I think Tyson has an easier time with Holmes than he does Lewis, strange as it is to say Lewis is the harder to hit of the two with a meaningful shot and if Tyson lands big he finishes off anyone. If he were in the same position as Shavers or Snipes he finishes there and then, too deadly a finisher to wobble against. All that said there is always the chance he lands a similar shot to McCall or Rahman and takes Lewis clean out.

Frazier and Marciano would be too small for him, granted they would keep getting up but the power and speed would tell within 3/4 rounds. Despite beating him twice I think Holyfield has a terrible time with dare I say it prime Mike Tyson, again he's not the hardest to hit and regardless of how good your chin is it can only withstand so much.

by JabMachineMK2 Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:12 pm

I've seen a lot of Holmes Truss, Chris actually implored me to after seeing my ATG Heavyweight list had Lewis at 3 behind Ali and Louis, Holmes was around 5, I'd seen around 4 or 5 fights including his fight with Bonecrusher (Holmes' Mercer to Lewis as it were) and after watching a good few more, I came to the conclusion that in terms of record and talent, I edge him just past Lews and I'd fancy him to win, Holmes would have kept Lewis at the end of the best jab I've ever seen in heavyweight boxing, Lewis would have hated that and ended up having to think of a plan B - it could go the way it went in McCall 1.

As for Gordy, its getting boring now, McCall knocked out Lewis - the video evidence clearly shows that Lewis was unsteady, he leaned on the referee - the rules in boxing state that you must be free of support and when the referee lifts your hands than to offer resistance. He didn't stand unaided and therefore the referee was right to stop it.

Oh and Tyson was very much past his best, its getting old that you protest otherwise. Not quite the zombie people make out, a great win against a dangerous fighter, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend we're talking about the Mike Tyson from the mid 80's.

by **88Chris05** Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:26 pm

Hhhhmmm.....I think Holmes has a bit too much of all the qualities which Tyson struggled against (good movement all over the ring, a top class jab and the ability to suck it up when it went to the trenches) for me to say that Mike beats him ten times out of ten, Truss.

If the fight goes past five or six rounds then I think Holmes would be in command. Larry had the knack of pulling it out in the championship rounds and was as fit as a fiddle with superb stamina for a Heavyweight. Tyson's head didn't move half as much in the second half of a fight and I think Holmes, if he survived the early onslaught, would be able to take a decision or, dare I say it, stop a fatigued Tyson late on.

Whether or not he can get past those first few rounds is another matter. If he boxes like he did in the early stages against Norton and Cooney, then you can forget it. If he's as disciplined as he was against Shavers (I) and Mercer, then maybe he can do it.

Tyson by early to mid stoppage six times out of then, late stoppage once, and the other three to Holmes by either decision or late stoppage.

by Gordy Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:46 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I've seen a lot of Holmes Truss, Chris actually implored me to after seeing my ATG Heavyweight list had Lewis at 3 behind Ali and Louis, Holmes was around 5, I'd seen around 4 or 5 fights including his fight with Bonecrusher (Holmes' Mercer to Lewis as it were) and after watching a good few more, I came to the conclusion that in terms of record and talent, I edge him just past Lews and I'd fancy him to win, Holmes would have kept Lewis at the end of the best jab I've ever seen in heavyweight boxing, Lewis would have hated that and ended up having to think of a plan B - it could go the way it went in McCall 1.

As for Gordy, its getting boring now, McCall knocked out Lewis - the video evidence clearly shows that Lewis was unsteady, he leaned on the referee - the rules in boxing state that you must be free of support and when the referee lifts your hands than to offer resistance. He didn't stand unaided and therefore the referee was right to stop it.

Oh and Tyson was very much past his best, its getting old that you protest otherwise. Not quite the zombie people make out, a great win against a dangerous fighter, but lets not kid ourselves and pretend we're talking about the Mike Tyson from the mid 80's.

The only thing getting old on here is the lack of respect for Lewis and how badly overrated Froch and Klitschko are.

by Rowley Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:57 pm

If I post my mobile number will someone give me a ring when we find something more exciting to talk about than Lennox Lewis. Is like going on a motoring forum and finding every thread is about a Ford Focus.

by **ShahenshahG** Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:09 pm

Rowley wrote:If I post my mobile number will someone give me a ring when we find something more exciting to talk about than Lennox Lewis. Is like going on a motoring forum and finding every thread is about a Ford Focus.

No, but you might become my favourite milf

by Imperial Ghosty Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:11 pm

Well Rowley a big favour could be done to the board to stop it don't you think?

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:26 pm

No but I'll post mine..

Blue oyster bar Beefster services....0898 666 666

by Atila Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:31 pm

Rowley wrote:If I post my mobile number will someone give me a ring when we find something more exciting to talk about than Lennox Lewis. Is like going on a motoring forum and finding every thread is about a Ford Focus.

That's a bit of a diservice to Lennox Lewis don't you think? He's at the very least comparable to a Ford Mondeo.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:32 pm

He weighed in about the same as one for Vitali!! Cool

by JabMachineMK2 Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:36 am

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Well Rowley a big favour could be done to the board to stop it don't you think?

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