Jonathan Davies on rugby in Wales

First topic message reminder :

'Top' TV personality and respected former player, Jonathan Davies, managed to squeeze in a couple of noteworthy points at the end of another gripping episode of Scrum V on BBC Wales yesterday. They included;

- regional rugby should be properly funded. There's no point in the WRU making profits if they aren't going to re-invest them,
- rugby should be encouraged in schools,
- Wales has to look at playing talent outside the small pool of regions and academies. He made the point that some players such as himself, Ieuan Evans and Shane Williams, develop later in life and never played for Wales in age group rugby,
- The WRU commissioned an expensive report that suggested that everyone work together, but there is no sign of it yet.

Interesting that Wales' most eminent pundit felt the need to reinforce these rather obvious points yet again. Maybe he feels we're not making progress.

We're 17 years into the professional era, even in Wales.

I'm sure I'm not alone in recalling how JD's suggestions were ignored by rugby administrators after returning from Wales's disastrous tour down under in 1988.

Then he was 26, a player reaching the top of his game, who stood out as Wales's only world-class player in Australia. Shortly afterwards, not surprisingly, union lost him to league for his best playing years.

Will it be different now that JD is 50?

Stone Motif wrote:

Brendan wrote:I know its too simple but it seems like the money men aren't doing much to grow the business rightly or wrongly.

I think Connacht should be used as a plan. They are really only supported by Galway in a place where Rugby was never a strong sport. They are growing the game but expect results. I am sure if it doesn't grow they will get cut back down.

In Wales regional rugby is not seen as a strong sport (though growing well enough if you ask me) I do wonder if the Scarlets growing themselves as they did will be forced and is being forced on the Os and Blues.

Are the dragons doing better, they seem to be except not on the pitch but that seems to be more with Ulster and Connacht improving then Dragons getting worse. Their owner seems to be putting in the most money with the stadium where as Os and Blue didn't put any money is and just wasted it on players

seems to be a common thread amongst Irish posters that we should get rid of the money men and see greater control from the WRU. Now leaving aside the fact that the WRU has a world-famous record of bungling incompetance that dwarfs anything by the regions, a guy in charge that is a proven liar to his colleagues and the public, and that they either cannot or will not put greater funding into the game outside of Team Wales, why do we want greater WRU control again?

Sadly the IRFU is not any better on the inside then the RFU, SFU or RFU. The problem with the regional set-up (as I see it and looking in so may not be right) is that the WRU say the money men should be doing better and raising more money. The Money men say that the WRU should be putting more in and they are doing the best they can. So they are stuck at blaming each other rather then doing anything.

In Ireland the IRFU can't do that because if the proviences aren't doing well it is down to them as they control the proviences and as such are responsible for both sets of income. the IRFU is well able to mess up it own money and be incopetent, there are just less places to hide.

There was always going to be friction, WRU went down a model route that was mix of IRFU owning proviences, and RFU having private clubs.

They never really sorted out who would do what and contribute what etc, now hopefully the regional board can sort this out, otherwise I'd hope the WRU will look at what NZ are doing with Crusaders etc, and maybe take some ideas from that model?

I just wish the WRU would stop trying to copy other national unions all the time. If you want to be the best you need to be leading the way not trying to be a cheap poor mans clone of someone else.

This new talk shop that has been created is not going to be of any use all the time that people like Roger Lewis are allowed to be doing interviews, as intentional or not, he has a habit of buck passing, which just leaves bad feeling around what ever issue he is talking about.

I only read this the other day:

'The Welsh Rugby Union chief executive, Roger Lewis, said in an interview last month that radical reform needed to be made, speculating that one region might be culled or two downgraded. "I was disappointed Roger chose to air his thoughts to a newspaper, all the more so after he had stressed the need for secrecy to us a few days before," said the Dragons' chairman, Martyn Hazell, a board member. "These are difficult times and tough decisions need to be made, but everything has to be done in the right way."'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/dec/31/newport-gwent-dragons-ospreys

Okay, so Martyn Hazell's talked to a journalist himself, but if what he says is true, then Roger Lewis's decision to give an interview to the Sunday Times is even more disgraceful. Why didn't the WRU slap him down for it?

Exactly. Between this, his BS about offering central contracts that the PWC report said was cobblers, his comments to Brown and Cuddy, and his pre-Christmas Cameron-esque 'we are all in this together' the man must have evaporated what little trust the guys running the regions had in him. Hopefully that means they'll stick together and sort out some of their common issues but they'll probably start knifing each other in the back a la 2003 and all get shafted. Todger's strategy will certainly be to divide and conquer as his 2 +2 tirade indicates.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I just wish the WRU would stop trying to copy other national unions all the time. If you want to be the best you need to be leading the way not trying to be a cheap poor mans clone of someone else.

This new talk shop that has been created is not going to be of any use all the time that people like Roger Lewis are allowed to be doing interviews, as intentional or not, he has a habit of buck passing, which just leaves bad feeling around what ever issue he is talking about.

Nothing wrong with looking at how others do things, even if sometimes it's only to figure out potential pitfalls.


That said, there's perhaps some more good reference material out there http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/8155963/PhD-examines-All-Blacks-winning-ways

Sorry ScarletSpiderman I wasn't meaning to copy NZ model, just that WRU has been running a Hybrid of the two systems, which NZ are looking to move to for a period with private investors, and thought that since NZ and WRU are the only two with Hybrid systems it may be worth looking at, to see if any ideas would carry over to Wales, not to copy it.

it does appear to me that the WRU do want a region to fail so they can enter RGC1404 in future, and only fund 3 in the meantime, and they don't appear to be worried which one. Dragons with 50% WRU ownership are prob the most worried.

Pete - it is all good and well to be aware of how others doing things, and to take what you believe is positive out and drop the negative stuff. I mean that is pretty much one of the ways people learn things.

But the WRU seem hell bent on just outright copying other peoples systems, and are not even ashamed to admit it.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Pete - it is all good and well to be aware of how others doing things, and to take what you believe is positive out and drop the negative stuff. I mean that is pretty much one of the ways people learn things.

But the WRU seem hell bent on just outright copying other peoples systems, and are not even ashamed to admit it.

The Scarlets seem to be doing well on a small enough budget and in the smallest of the 4 host towns. In the old days I assume that llanelli were getting smaller attendances then Swansa, Cardiff and Newport.

Thye have big debts but they seem to be getting that down and are doing well with attendances and on field performances

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I only read this the other day:

'The Welsh Rugby Union chief executive, Roger Lewis, said in an interview last month that radical reform needed to be made, speculating that one region might be culled or two downgraded. "I was disappointed Roger chose to air his thoughts to a newspaper, all the more so after he had stressed the need for secrecy to us a few days before," said the Dragons' chairman, Martyn Hazell, a board member. "These are difficult times and tough decisions need to be made, but everything has to be done in the right way."'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/dec/31/newport-gwent-dragons-ospreys

Okay, so Martyn Hazell's talked to a journalist himself, but if what he says is true, then Roger Lewis's decision to give an interview to the Sunday Times is even more disgraceful. Why didn't the WRU slap him down for it?

The Board/Chairman should have sacked him. (Remember what happened to some of the banks when they didn't control the egos of their 'CEOs'?)

Even if they think Lewis is an asset, he should deal with the business admin side of things and nothing more.

He's even taken to giving his opinion about on-field matters (Wales Report with Huw Edwards on BBC) when he said we had to 'front up against Australia'.

The man has no credentials whatsoever to talk about the playing side of rugby - I don't care how efficiently he re-orders toner for the photocopiers.

I couldn't believe it when I read it. Who would want to go into business with a man who tells people not to do something that he then goes and does himself?

Do you think that was a little frolic of his own? That was planned at the highest level.