Hendre Fourie to be deported!

by RuggerBoy Mon 07 Jan 2013, 7:17 pm

An amazing thing, an England player who can no longer live in the country he has represented. The father who can no longer share the homeland of his own son.

I do find this country strange sometimes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20932047

by kingjohn7 Mon 07 Jan 2013, 7:37 pm

Fking ridiculous. Pro athlete moving into teaching, dont want that sort of person in the country.

by Hound_of_Harrow Mon 07 Jan 2013, 7:40 pm

I agree with his comments about the country 'protecting the rights of terrorists'.

It's petty for our authorities to treat a guy who has represented England like this.

by maestegmafia Mon 07 Jan 2013, 8:12 pm

Nick Easter mentioned his thoughts on England picking players that aren't English in the times yesterday. Well worth a read.

by majesticimperialman Mon 07 Jan 2013, 9:08 pm

It rearly sucks in my opinion. He represented England, has been in the country for about 10 years or so. And now he is being deported because he can no longer play for England.

It is disgusting. It rearly is Disgusting.

by Duty281 Mon 07 Jan 2013, 9:12 pm

Abu Qatada can stay here for years though. What a joke.

by maestegmafia Mon 07 Jan 2013, 9:26 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:It rearly sucks in my opinion. He represented England, has been in the country for about 10 years or so. And now he is being deported because he can no longer play for England.

It is disgusting. It rearly is Disgusting.

Maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to play for England?

by robbo277 Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:11 pm

Whether or not he played for England (and I was never overwhelming for his selection on a purely rugby basis), I think the other factors should be enough to keep him here. He's been in the country 7 years now (is that not enough for a passport?) and the fact that he has got a kid born in this country. This child will now be forced to emigrate or grow up without a father's daily presence, which is an absolute farce.

I was never the biggest fan of Hendre Fourie as an international player, I always thought of him as a solid club pro, but this is an absolute joke.

by Cyril Mon 07 Jan 2013, 10:21 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:It rearly sucks in my opinion. He represented England, has been in the country for about 10 years or so. And now he is being deported because he can no longer play for England.

It is disgusting. It rearly is Disgusting.

Maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to play for England?

FFS. That isn't the point. At all. Rolling Eyes

by **Biltong** Mon 07 Jan 2013, 11:00 pm

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:It rearly sucks in my opinion. He represented England, has been in the country for about 10 years or so. And now he is being deported because he can no longer play for England.

It is disgusting. It rearly is Disgusting.

Maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to play for England?
FFS. That isn't the point. At all.

That is in fact a very debatable point.

That is exactly my thinking I brought across earlier. Only in a different manner.

by Taylorman Tue 08 Jan 2013, 12:24 am

Biltong wrote:
Cyril on 606v2 wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:It rearly sucks in my opinion. He represented England, has been in the country for about 10 years or so. And now he is being deported because he can no longer play for England.

It is disgusting. It rearly is Disgusting.

Maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to play for England?
FFS. That isn't the point. At all.
That is in fact a very debatable point.

That is exactly my thinking I brought across earlier. Only in a different manner.

I agree.
It suggests The Rugby rules are more lax about who can play and who can't- a 'get him in the side if at all possible' aproach where the residence laws have slighter meatier criteria.

But agree with a son born there the lack of familiy reunification type or similar grounds makes this look stupid. He must have known the traps so not a nice way to have to live particularly when youre doing your best to fulfil the requirements then fall prey to circs beyond your control.

Players taking contracts overseas with one eye on the international agenda should well take note. So should their agents.

by rainbow-warrior Tue 08 Jan 2013, 1:18 am

robbo277 wrote:Whether or not he played for England (and I was never overwhelming for his selection on a purely rugby basis), I think the other factors should be enough to keep him here. He's been in the country 7 years now (is that not enough for a passport?) and the fact that he has got a kid born in this country. This child will now be forced to emigrate or grow up without a father's daily presence, which is an absolute farce.

I was never the biggest fan of Hendre Fourie as an international player, I always thought of him as a solid club pro, but this is an absolute joke.

You do not get a passport on just having residency, for that you require citizenship. 7 years is huge time if he can not get residency! NZ you can get residency immediately depending on your job and citizenship 5 years later. The fact that he has paid taxes all this time and is not allowed a benefit is disgusting ... good show again ENgland.

by Hood83 Tue 08 Jan 2013, 7:37 am

Really feel for the guy, this feels terribly wrong. Could Sale not have helped in anyway? I suppose not.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Tue 08 Jan 2013, 9:38 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Whether or not he played for England (and I was never overwhelming for his selection on a purely rugby basis), I think the other factors should be enough to keep him here. He's been in the country 7 years now (is that not enough for a passport?) and the fact that he has got a kid born in this country. This child will now be forced to emigrate or grow up without a father's daily presence, which is an absolute farce.

I was never the biggest fan of Hendre Fourie as an international player, I always thought of him as a solid club pro, but this is an absolute joke.

You do not get a passport on just having residency, for that you require citizenship. 7 years is huge time if he can not get residency! NZ you can get residency immediately depending on your job and citizenship 5 years later. The fact that he has paid taxes all this time and is not allowed a benefit is disgusting ... good show again ENgland.

Paraphasing myself Smile

from the thread in the club section

Based on the yesterday's (London)Times write up Fourie arrived in the country on a working holiday visa (same as I did) then switched to a study visa when he started teacher training - at that point he was only playing for Rotheram so didn't qualify for a fully pro sportsman's visa. Once Leeds signed him in 2010 he switched to highly skilled (tier 1) and then he went to tier 2 when he moved to Sale. So he only had 3 years time served on tier1 or 2 visas when he retired so isn't eligible for residency (which requires 5 years). Working holiday and student visas don't count towards residency. I spent around 14 months after I arrived in the UK on a working holiday visa before switching to highly skilled (tier 1) - then had to stay 5 more years before applying for residency.

He's basically decided the time, money and stress involved in doing the paperwork for a visa to work as a teacher isn't worth the hassle and opted to go home - having gone through 4 rounds of visa applications/renewals in the bureaucratic morass that is UKBA over the years myself I can't say I blame him. I spent around £1800 last year in fees and other costs sorting my residency, plus it ate up over a week's annual leave (studying for and sitting the Life in the UK test, plus going to the Visa interview). He'd have had to apply with 2 dependents which basically doubles the cost of an application.

BTW, I'm fairly sure that time on a student visa doesn't count towards residency in NZ either, though I could be wrong on that.

Tier 2 working visas in the UK are tied to your employer - so once Sale released him (which presumably they had to do due to the AP Salary Cap) Fourie's visa would have automatically expired, which triggers the automatic "you must leave the country in the next 30 days unless you find another emplyer to sponsor you" letter. Sale could have presumably put him on the coaching staff, though I imagine there's some rules around salary cap rorts that complicate that.

by offload Tue 08 Jan 2013, 1:29 pm

Whether he should have played for England is a fair point to debate. Regardless though he did.

As such his deportation is absurd.

by wasps Tue 08 Jan 2013, 3:33 pm

i wonder if sale could employ him on a £1 salary as a player.
That way he's still working for the club, but isn't costing Sale anything.

by OzT Tue 08 Jan 2013, 3:51 pm

Don't think they can do that, unless English visa's are different from ours, cause the job needs to have been advertized for a period before hand and only if there's a need to recruit from overseas, or the oversea applicant has skills the locals does not have, can a work visa be issued.

I wish the bloke best of luck, it does seem a rough deal after his time in UK.

by Taylorman Wed 09 Jan 2013, 1:51 am

OzT wrote:Don't think they can do that, unless English visa's are different from ours, cause the job needs to have been advertized for a period before hand and only if there's a need to recruit from overseas, or the oversea applicant has skills the locals does not have, can a work visa be issued.

I wish the bloke best of luck, it does seem a rough deal after his time in UK.

So perhaps they can advertise a position for a hard done by South African rugby player who has had a child in the UK while on a rugby contract and has played for England who can comment on the woes of being in this position and counsel others perhaps who may find themselves in this position. Wouldnt be too many locals with those skills would there? The demand is certainly there.

by aucklandlaurie Wed 09 Jan 2013, 6:07 am

Perhaps this is the reason why Shontayne Hape left England and went and played for a French club???

He only qualified to play for England, due to his years of residence whilst playing league for the Bradford bulls.

by Hood83 Wed 09 Jan 2013, 9:35 am

wasps wrote:i wonder if sale could employ him on a £1 salary as a player.
That way he's still working for the club, but isn't costing Sale anything.

Might not meet the minimum wage either!

by Effervescing Elephant Wed 09 Jan 2013, 9:36 am

rainbow-warrior wrote:
robbo277 wrote:Whether or not he played for England (and I was never overwhelming for his selection on a purely rugby basis), I think the other factors should be enough to keep him here. He's been in the country 7 years now (is that not enough for a passport?) and the fact that he has got a kid born in this country. This child will now be forced to emigrate or grow up without a father's daily presence, which is an absolute farce.

I was never the biggest fan of Hendre Fourie as an international player, I always thought of him as a solid club pro, but this is an absolute joke.

You do not get a passport on just having residency, for that you require citizenship. 7 years is huge time if he can not get residency! NZ you can get residency immediately depending on your job and citizenship 5 years later. The fact that he has paid taxes all this time and is not allowed a benefit is disgusting ... good show again ENgland.

Sorry can we please differentiate between 'ENgland' and United Kingdom law. The RFU do not have a van full of lads that go around deporting ex-players. Also 'ENgland' does not have a seperate parliament able to legislate on citizenship. This is a UK issue and should not be used to attack England.

by lostinwales Wed 09 Jan 2013, 9:41 am

'UK Border Agency spokesman says it has not curtailed Hendre Fourie's visa and he is not required to leave the UK'

by Hood83 Wed 09 Jan 2013, 9:44 am

Taylorman wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Cyril on 606v2 wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:It rearly sucks in my opinion. He represented England, has been in the country for about 10 years or so. And now he is being deported because he can no longer play for England.

It is disgusting. It rearly is Disgusting.

Maybe he shouldn't have been allowed to play for England?
FFS. That isn't the point. At all.
That is in fact a very debatable point.

That is exactly my thinking I brought across earlier. Only in a different manner.

I agree.
It suggests The Rugby rules are more lax about who can play and who can't- a 'get him in the side if at all possible' aproach where the residence laws have slighter meatier criteria.

But agree with a son born there the lack of familiy reunification type or similar grounds makes this look stupid. He must have known the traps so not a nice way to have to live particularly when youre doing your best to fulfil the requirements then fall prey to circs beyond your control.

Players taking contracts overseas with one eye on the international agenda should well take note. So should their agents.

I'm not sure the 'international agenda' is that significant in this case is it? Someone like Fourie came across essentially on a holiday and then moved up the rugby ranks, it's not the same as a Waldrom who was an established top tier player. Even then is it the 'international agenda' or the fact they can earn lots more money that motivates them.

If Fourie came over thinking 'I'm going to be able to play for England and get international honours...right after I've done some teaching and maybe played for a number of years with lower league rugby teams' then he's an ambitious s of a b.

I agree with the point regarding rugby rules being more lax, if that is the case as it seems to be, it also seems barmy and should be changed. I understand it must be damn frustrating for a Kiwi seeing your guys up sticks only to turn up playing against the ABs later with a different shirt, but i really don't think Fourie deserves to be put in that bracket, if that is what you mean of course.

by Effervescing Elephant Wed 09 Jan 2013, 9:53 am

lostinwales wrote:'UK Border Agency spokesman says it has not curtailed Hendre Fourie's visa and he is not required to leave the UK'

Story here:Telegraph. Media frenzy perchance???

by **Biltong** Wed 09 Jan 2013, 10:43 am

Can we all just calm down a bit.

The point is irrespective of who's law it is, it sucks.

by Effervescing Elephant Wed 09 Jan 2013, 10:50 am

Biltong mate, he's not going anywhere. One visa has expired and the UKBA have said they need to talk to him to find him a new visa. I think the headlines should read 'Some paperwork may be required for England hero'

Typical British media though.

by OzT Wed 09 Jan 2013, 12:08 pm

Hood83 wrote:
wasps wrote:i wonder if sale could employ him on a £1 salary as a player.
That way he's still working for the club, but isn't costing Sale anything.

Might not meet the minimum wage either!

But as the club is based up t'norf £1 probably exceed the minimum wage?????

Smile

by bluestonevedder Wed 09 Jan 2013, 12:10 pm

Biltong wrote:Can we all just calm down a bit.

The point is irrespective of who's law it is, it sucks.

Glad the whole thing situation seems to be ok.

by Scrumpy Wed 09 Jan 2013, 12:14 pm

What a strange country we live in!

A pro athlete who has lived here for 8 years, paid his taxes and National insurance and wants to go into teaching, his son is as British as the Queen yet he is fighting deportation, yet we have hundreds of thousands of foreigners clogging up the NHS and our schools that don't pay a penny into it plus they all want housing which means our green and pleasant land is ploughed up to make room for blocks of flats, oh and terrorist have more rights than the likes of you and me.

Note to self - I must stop reading the Mail!

by dummy_half Wed 09 Jan 2013, 12:19 pm

OzT wrote:
Hood83 wrote:
wasps wrote:i wonder if sale could employ him on a £1 salary as a player.
That way he's still working for the club, but isn't costing Sale anything.

Might not meet the minimum wage either!

But as the club is based up t'norf £1 probably exceed the minimum wage?????

Not true. It might though buy you a decent end terrace in Sale.

Good to hear that common sense is prevailing and an exception being made that allows Fourie to stay if he wants.

I think we've discussed the international qualification rules often enough to have aired most opinions, and I think the majority would look to tighten the regulations somewhat with regard to residency periods and family ties to a country. I do though have more sympathy for Fourie (and Botha) in playing for England based on residency when compared with the likes of Barritt or Waldrom, as neither moved here principally to play rugby, and improved at the game while they were here. Whether they were good enough players to be selected for England is a different matter than whether they were eligible.

by king_carlos Wed 09 Jan 2013, 1:35 pm

Good to hear he may be getting a chance to stay. It would be ridiculous for him to be deported IMO, Pro athlete who has represented the country and now wants to go into teaching here and has a son who was born here.

I don't see many reasons why we wouldn't want the bloke here from that.

by **Rugby Fan** Wed 09 Jan 2013, 1:56 pm

So, as suspected, Fourie was never threated with deportation. If he wanted to stay in Britain, again as suspected, he had plenty of cards to play, and could have done so without making any kind of song and dance.

I don`t know whether tweets suggesting he still plans to head to South Africa anyway are true, but if they are, you have to think he prefers the lifestyle and opportunities available for him and his family over there, rather than here.

Perhaps he is upset that he can`t head to South Africa without having already banked a UK passport on account of representing England. If so, tough.

It seems likely that, through his achievements, he has a route open to another working visa, and probably then indefinite leave to stay, which is the way to citizenship. If it was of value to him, he`d stay to qualify.

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