How vintage was your year?

First topic message reminder :

Inspired by Truss's 1982 year of the invincibles thread and in the absence of Union who loves this kind of thing, here is a bit of fun that may, or may not, take off. It does involve a wee bit of work and disclosing how old you are, but who were the champions of the 8 original weight classes as of your date of birth. The WBC/WBA split in the early 1960's can cause a bit of grief depending on how old you are, so in that instance, and where there isn't a unified champion, just pick which of the champions you feel is the best.

We can see who was born in the best year.....

Here goes for me (5.11.1977)

Heavyweight: Muhammad Ali
Light Heavyweight: Victor Galindez
Middleweight: Rodrigo Valdez
Welterweight: Carlos Palomino
Lightweight: Roberto Duran
Featherweight: Danny Lopez
Bantamweight: Carlos Zarate
Flyweight: Miguel Canto

Not too shabby a list, and considering I missed out on Monzon at Middleweight by only a couple of months, I am definitely a contender.

Over to you.....

that spinks hagler curry spine is a bit tasty, not so sure about the strength in depth

I'm liking my list a little more, the more i look at it. Strong in the lighter weights, benvenuti won his trilogy with griffith as a middle, tiger did for torres.

King of the 60's child's i say.

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Yep, I think the Captain is right. Holmes was IBF champ in 1985.

TopHat streaks into the lead.

According to BoxRec, Holmes fought and beat James Smith for the IBF 9 Nov '84 but there're no holders listed before that. So I deduced the lsit didn't exist therefore Holmes didn't count.

As far as I can make out, Holmes became the inaugural IBF champ on December 11 1983, simultaneously giving up his WBC belt, which as Tophat says, was then won by Witherspoon in March 84. Larry is definitely the man for your birthday and I'd say that your lead in this competition is an unassailable one, TH. Unless we can find someone born in early 82, of course.

Holmes told the WBC to stick their belt Tophat and took the newly formed IBF, as far as most sensible folk are concerned though tophat Holmes was the man until Spinks toppled him.

I suppose it depends on your interpretation - I'm happy to take yours Cap'n!!

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:Yep, I think the Captain is right. Holmes was IBF champ in 1985.

TopHat streaks into the lead.

According to BoxRec, Holmes fought and beat James Smith for the IBF 9 Nov '84 but there're no holders listed before that. So I deduced the lsit didn't exist therefore Holmes didn't count.

You can argue your way out of the lead if you like, TopHat?! Just take the plaudits pal.

Jeff, surely you can check for people D.O.B's and find someone from early '82?

Rowley wrote:Holmes told the WBC to stick their belt Tophat and took the newly formed IBF, as far as most sensible folk are concerned though tophat Holmes was the man until Spinks toppled him.

Yeh, remembered that story but just thought as he didn't 'win' (or defend as the case may be) the belt till later Tino wouldn't let it count, even if he was regarded the man at the weight at the time. Tino's like that, be like brogues vs cigarette sports test all over again......

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Rowley wrote:Holmes told the WBC to stick their belt Tophat and took the newly formed IBF, as far as most sensible folk are concerned though tophat Holmes was the man until Spinks toppled him.

Yeh, remembered that story but just thought as he didn't 'win' (or defend as the case may be) the belt till later Tino wouldn't let it count, even if he was regarded the man at the weight at the time. Tino's like that, be like brogues vs cigarette sports test all over again......

Don't start that again, TopHat. Shoegate left me drained.

I think the general consensus has you in the lead so far. Until we find an early '82......

1987 - haven't the time to check now but don't imagine it will pull up too many trees.

Fists of Fury wrote:1987 - haven't the time to check now but don't imagine it will pull up too many trees.

What month, Fists?

Evidently the Captain will know them off by heart!

Right, no looking and guessing at the month, perhaps Fists will have Tyson, Hearns, Leonard, Honeyghan, Ramirez, Nelson, Lora and Chitalada.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Right, no looking and guessing at the month, perhaps Fists will have Tyson, Hearns, Leonard, Honeyghan, Ramirez, Nelson, Lora and Chitalada.

Not bad.

Tyson was a beast in '87. Two of the Fab Four, Honeyghan, Azumah Nelson. A decent crop. Pretty good list but not close to toppling the TopHat.

what's the judging basis... general best quality of fighter or who wins in a head to head.

if its the latter i'm not sure tophats 8 would beat tina's at their best

i'd say its a fairly safe 3 all, with the rubber matches being:
laciar v canto
pedroza v lopez

pair of pickems i'd have thought. pedroza has a better record than lopez but without beating anyone.

draw or a split decision for me, but looks like tina's thrown in the towel

milkyboy wrote:what's the judging basis... general best quality of fighter or who wins in a head to head.

if its the latter i'm not sure tophats 8 would beat tina's at their best

i'd say its a fairly safe 3 all, with the rubber matches being:
laciar v canto
pedroza v lopez

pair of pickems i'd have thought. pedroza has a better record than lopez but without beating anyone.

draw or a split decision for me, but looks like tina's thrown in the towel

In all honesty, milky, I hadn't really thought it all through as much as I should have. I was expecting maybe 3 replies and for it to slip down the board like my usual posting history. The rules have become a bit of an afterthought!

I think, to avoid too much subjectivity, it would have to be on all the criteria apart from head to heads......does that put TopHat in the lead? I think it does.......just.

october 1985

Surely Pedroza is a stylistic nightmare for Little Red, milky? Knew how to churn out the wins and his title reign must give him the edge over Danny.

Canto-Laciar really is a pick'em, though. Could be a stinker, as well, with both liking an opposition lead and both unable to punch a hole in a pat of butter. Draw, let's say. 4.5-3.5 in favour of TH.

Ali and Duran are my big hitters, but I think TopHat just has the strength in depth.

Poor old Superfly. He could have been in on the debate had he not had Neon Leon instead of The Greatest!

Witherspoon, vacant, Hagler, Curry, Camacho, Nelson, Fenech, Chitalada for Shah (he guessed frantically!).

captain carrantuohil wrote:Witherspoon, vacant, Hagler, Curry, Camacho, Nelson, Fenech, Chitalada for Shah (he guessed frantically!).

Weak at the top end for you, Shah.

Especially the LHW division. Vacant is never going to beat anyone.

25th December 1981

HW - Mike Weaver
LHW - Dwight Muhammad Qawi
MW - Marvin Hagler
LMW - Wilfred Benitez
WW - Sugar Ray Leonard
LWW - Saoul Mamby
LW - Alexis Arguello (WBC), Arturo Frias (WBA)
SFW - Rolando Navarrete
FW - Salvador Sanchez
BW - Lupe Pintor (WBC), Jeff Chandler (WBA)
Flyweight - Antonio Avelar (WBC), Juan Herrera (WBA)

I win because everyone yields to vacant at one time or another.

your probably right captain, pedroza was an awkward so and so for most opponents and lopez wasn't that special... though he was champion for a while and it took an all time great to dethrone him... not barry mcguigan.

i'll agree with the bore draw on canto laciar. Not sure why i'm fighting tino's corner for him, anyway!

quentins_monkey wrote:25th December 1981

HW - Mike Weaver
LHW - Dwight Muhammad Qawi
MW - Marvin Hagler
LMW - Wilfred Benitez
WW - Sugar Ray Leonard
LWW - Saoul Mamby
LW - Alexis Arguello (WBC), Arturo Frias (WBA)
SFW - Rolando Navarrete
FW - Salvador Sanchez
BW - Lupe Pintor (WBC), Jeff Chandler (WBA)
Flyweight - Antonio Avelar (WBC), Juan Herrera (WBA)

Not bad at all for most of the traditional 8 divisions....let down badly by Weaver. Even Qawi, fine fighter though he was, is not as good as some others have at the weight. Weaver is a shocker though!

Mine's a stormer. Got to be the winner (I did more than the main 8 because there were so many good ones)!

02/11/82:

HW - Larry Holmes (and Michael Dokes)
LHW - Michael Spinks/Dwight Muhammad Qawi
MW - Marvin Hagler
LMW - Thomas Hearns (and Davey Moore)
WW - Sugar Ray Leonard
LWW - Aaron Pryor (and Leroy Haley)
LW - Alexis Argüello (and Ray Mancini)
FW - Eusebio Pedroza (and Juan LaPorte)
JFW - Wilfredo Gómez (and Leonardo Cruz)
BW - Lupe Pintor (and Jeff Chandler)
SFlW - Chul-Ho Kim/Jiro Watanabe
FlW - Santos Laciar (and Freddy Castillo)

the shocker is opting for weaver, over larry big pants. With that revision, I'd say that list takes some beating

Now I look I see that it isn't witherspoon, but either Spinks or Pinklon Thomas as your choice for heavyweight, Shah. No improvement on terrible Tim, I wouldn't think.

QM, do you really want Weaver rather than Holmes as your champ at heavy?! With Holmes, you're a real contender. Let's see the 8 again - Holmes, Qawi, Hagler, Leonard, Arguello, Sanchez, Chandler and Avelar. Close thing, I'd say.

And boxthis suddenly makes the whole competition redundant...

milkyboy wrote:the shocker is opting for weaver, over larry big pants. With that revision, I'd say that list takes some beating

Aye, ol Larry big pants closes the field considerably. Qawi is still lagging for me.

Boxtthis has just pulled a beauty out of the bag as well. New leader?

captain carrantuohil wrote:And boxthis suddenly makes the whole competition redundant...

It's a frightening list isn't it?

yeh boxthis edges quentin: the improvements of laciar and spinks, trump having sanchez over pedrosa.

interesting that truss talks of the class of 82, and here's your proof

Boxtthis wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:And boxthis suddenly makes the whole competition redundant...

It's a frightening list isn't it?

Yeah, but does it have Neon Leon?

Boxtthis wrote:Mine's a stormer. Got to be the winner (I did more than the main 8 because there were so many good ones)!

02/11/82:

HW - Larry Holmes (and Michael Dokes)
LHW - Michael Spinks/Dwight Muhammad Qawi
MW - Marvin Hagler
LMW - Thomas Hearns (and Davey Moore)
WW - Sugar Ray Leonard
LWW - Aaron Pryor (and Leroy Haley)
LW - Alexis Argüello (and Ray Mancini)
FW - Eusebio Pedroza (and Juan LaPorte)
JFW - Wilfredo Gómez (and Leonardo Cruz)
BW - Lupe Pintor (and Jeff Chandler)
SFlW - Chul-Ho Kim/Jiro Watanabe
FlW - Santos Laciar (and Freddy Castillo)

Damn jocks......

superflyweight wrote:

Boxtthis wrote:

captain carrantuohil wrote:And boxthis suddenly makes the whole competition redundant...

It's a frightening list isn't it?

Yeah, but does it have Neon Leon?

Give it up, pal. Give it up.

Ali is a hype job and Holmes was really just looking after the belt for Leon in case he decided he wanted it back. We all know the real quality champ in that era was Spinks.

Given some of the previous lists mine doesn't hold up too well but probably not the worst either
01/02/89
HW-Tyson
LHW- Virgil hill
MW- Iran Barkley
WW-honeyghan
LW-JCC
FW-fenech
BW- sung-kil moon
FW-fidel bassa

I see a possible opening for anyone born within a window of a few months in 1975. Your champions in that case would be Ali, Galindez (Conteh), Monzon, Napoles, Duran, Arguello, Zamora and Canto. Zamora is the comparatively weak link and Galindez or Conteh don't beat the very top 175 pounders, but otherwise, that's a set to conjure with.

i reckon someone mid-late 73 ... basically rowley's plus jofre..., would give the class of 82 a run for their money:

holmes v foreman
spinks v foster
hagler v monzon
arguello v duran

That would make for a useful card, and you can make a case for the boys of 73 in all of them.

leonard v napoles, jofre v pedroza and would be worth a watch if a little easier to pick too.

pintor and laciar, see the class of 82 home, if you assume those top 4 fights are split. Salivating match ups though

milkyboy wrote:
holmes v foreman
spinks v foster
hagler v monzon
arguello v duran

That's a seriously good list of fights right there

Anyone old enough to have Henry Armstrong fighting there corner in 3 different weight classes in 1938? Also Joe Louis and Benny Lynch I think would be there as well so that would take some beating.

My list is pretty similar to Chris being born a couple of months after in 88.

captain carrantuohil wrote:Skimpton, being born five months before me, has an almost identical list to mine. In the interests of claiming precedence over him, however, would like to say that Griffith vacated his welterweight crown about three weeks before Skimpton was born!

I therefore triumph with Cokes against his no-one. Burruni wasn't as good as Accavallo, either, although he was decent enough (lost his crown to Scotland's Walter McGowan later in 66).

Have a feeling that TopHat is going to win this one, by the way. By my reckoning, he's got Holmes, Spinks, Hagler, Curry, Rosario, Pedroza, Chandler and Laciar, all of them out of, or nearly out of, the top drawer.

captain

Griffiths may have vacated but as there was no Champion he was also still the man at Welter - IMO.
If you think Cokes was better than Griffith you can have it.
PLUS I'M OLDER SO HAVE SOME RESPECT!

I think that we have to stick to the letter of the law, old-timer....

Nothing wrong with Ernesto Marcel being your featherweight champion Rowley, he did beat Arguello in his last defence.

11/11/1983

Heavyweight- Larry Holmes
Light Heavyweight- Michael Spinks
Middleweight- Marvin Hagler
Welterweight- Donald Curry
Lightweight- Edwin Rosario
Featherweight- Eusebio Pedrosa
Bantamweight- Jeff Chandler
Flyweight- Santos Laciar

Started well but started to tail of from Welterweight downwards.

Who were the champions in 1900?

No-one at all at flyweight, welterweight or light-heavyweight, Az, since they weren't yet world-recognised classes.

Otherwise, Jeffries, Tommy Ryan, Frank Erne and Terry McGovern, who was the claimant at both bantam and feather. I'm sure you really wanted to know that.

21/03/1985

Heavyweight- Larry holmes
Light Heavyweight- Michael Spinks
Middleweight- Marvin Hagler
Welterweight- Donald Curry
Lightweight- joes luis ramirez (just missed out on hector camacho)
Featherweight- Azumah Nelson
Bantamweight- Daniel zaragoza (was going on WBC champs, didnt appear to be any at this time with daniel winning it just after?)
Flyweight- Sot Chitlada

C and R, think you may have overlooked Holmes at Heavyweight.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:C and R, think you may have overlooked Holmes at Heavyweight.

its appears i did somehow!!!! (looked on wiki and didnt realise the WBA bit) my list just got better, amended it

compelling and rich wrote:21/03/1985

Heavyweight- Larry holmes
Light Heavyweight- Michael Spinks
Middleweight- Marvin Hagler
Welterweight- Donald Curry
Lightweight- joes luis ramirez (just missed out on hector camacho)
Featherweight- Azumah Nelson
Bantamweight- Daniel zaragoza (was going on WBC champs, didnt appear to be any at this time with daniel winning it just after?)
Flyweight- Sot Chitlada

didnt realise people had added the extra weights, if i were you can add hearns and JCC to mine!!! i missed out on pryor by 19 days!!

July 4th 1970 was the year USA celebrated my arrival into this world. Who were the champions then. I know Frazier and believe Arguello were champions.

Heavyweight- Joe Frazier
Light Heavyweight- Bob Foster
Middleweight- Nino Benvenuti
Welterweight- Jose Napoles
Lightweight- Ismael Laguna
Featherweight- Vicente Saldivar
Bantamweight- Ruben Olivares
Flyweight- Chartchai Chionoi

Arguello was some years later Az