Biarritz and Bayonne in talks of possibly merging for ERC competions

http://planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8434316,00.html

Here is a article about the two basque clubs looking to possibly combine for european competions.

On the face it looks like it will never happen but here are some reasons why it might.

Basque people like to show people that they are different from French and Spainish people. With one team to get behind they might get a bigger support.

Biarritz are in decline and Bayonne a a club that goes up and down between divisions. By combining they could have a better team and get better results.

They claim as they cover parts of Spain that there needs to be a team in the HC that represents some part of Spain.

The 4 Rabo unions might agree to it as it would either a) help the pave the way for a Super 15 style tournament controlled by the Unions b) gives the Rabo Unions some more wriggle room.

From what little I know of Mr Blanco though you would think that the Welsh mergers would a success at being a region compared to what he would do. Also the quotes from the NLR and ERC as are to be expected.

Intresting, would the two squads be able to gel for the games?

How would qualification work? if either Biarritz and Bayonne finish in top 6 they would enter combined team, if both are in top 6, 7th place gets a spot?


Would the monies be equally divided or would Biarritz enventually get annoy if it was the one finishing in top 6 all the time and Bayonne were gaining half the profits?

does make it intresting,

Sure Sale could have looked at entering a north of England team, with Leeds and Falcons?? or a London team??

Biarritz and Bayonne are about 5 miles apart.
Pays Basque is not affiliated to the ERC.
Planet rugby will print just about anything.

Makes sense for Biarritz and Bayonne to merge if they want, but surely they'd have to do so within the auspices of the FFR and the T14,

So there's a few gaps to fill in before Brendan makes ill-considered leaps of faith and/or imagination.

The comment from the ERC guy kind of implies that it would legally be put in place. Lets be honest if They entered as a Basque region would people care if there was seven french teams as it would still only be half the teams.

the French split the money among the 14 teams so they would be entitled to 2 portions or 1 depending if Bayonne are in the top flight.

But the real money is progressing and if they progress they would be fine.

greytiger wrote:Biarritz and Bayonne are about 5 miles apart.
Pays Basque is not affiliated to the ERC.
Planet rugby will print just about anything.

Makes sense for Biarritz and Bayonne to merge if they want, but surely they'd have to do so within the auspices of the FFR and the T14,

So there's a few gaps to fill in before Brendan makes ill-considered leaps of faith and/or imagination.

Not making any leaps just bring up the story.

The ERC would be the ones who deceide. If the ERC felt it would help develop Rugby in the north of spain they could just give them a place.

Anyway at five miles apart it would work fine. You always see the Basque flags eg at the games.

European Rugby Cup president Jean-Pierre Lux said that "there is nothing to prevent the creation a Basque province to compete in the European Cup" if the necessary legal frameworks were put in place.

Ligue Nationale de Rugby president Paul Goze is less sure it's possible though.

"My position is simple: The European Cup is a competition of clubs that have qualified via the (domestic) championship," said Goze.

"The hypothesis of a fusion just for the European Cup is perhaps intellectually attractive. But materially, its unfeasible."

i.e. flying kites amongst the pies.

Most French teams have billionaire investors. Can either of these not get that? I think Biarritz will be on their way back up, they are a very good team despite the past two-three seasons.

BTW, just how different are the Basque people to Spanish and French?

Morgannwg wrote:Most French teams have billionaire investors. Can either of these not get that? I think Biarritz will be on their way back up, they are a very good team despite the past two-three seasons.

BTW, just how different are the Basque people to Spanish and French?

It depends who you ask Morgan. A bit like Welsh, Scottish or Ulster separatists.

My understanding is that there is little more nationalistic fervour in Pays Basque (or Brittany) than there is in Wales or Scotland.

Over the border in Spain, the Catalans have a louder voice - maybe akin to Ulster.

It was curiousity. I know the Spannish consider themselves are three seperate consitutions, right? And Harinorduquy was apparently a Catalonian?
What do they refer to themselves as, Basque people? Who were they ancestors?

Now you've got me. I've never read up seriously on Franco-spanish separatism.

Do Perpignan not consider themselves to be Catalan ?

Hari is Basque, I thought

Regarding their nationalism -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Country_(greater_region)

I don't think Hari was born in France though, which lead me to believe it was in Spain, whether it be the Basque part of Spain or Catalonia. I've only heard it because French people dislike non-french playing in their team.

are youse lads mixing up the basques and the catalans by any chance?

Basques are on the atlantic side and include biarritz and santander.

Calalans are on the meditaranian side and include perpignan and barcelona.

not saying you are or you aren't but......

Hari's Basque though, right?

Well I might be mixing it all up, I welcome somebody educating me on the matter though.

I just assumed he must be Basque as he plays for Biarritz. Of course, he could be Catalan or French

It's complicated. This is how I think it is:

Catalunya is an autonomous region in Spain. If you are born there you are Spanish, but a lot of them call themselves Catalan, (as I am British per my passport, but I call myself English). Catalunya have their own language.

Pais Vasco is an autonomous region of Spain, however, you can get a Basque passport. There is a Basque language that has no links to Spanish or any other western European language - it's a complete anomaly.

Some cities in southern France see themselves either as Basque or Catalan. The Basque Country, for example, comprises of the Spanish region and 3 regions in Southern France, I assume including Bayonne and Biarritz. Some in Perpignan obviously feel more Catalan than French. I think this is similar to how Ulster isn't Northern Ireland, there's 9 counties in Ulster and 6 of them make up Northern Ireland. So you've got a region that spreads over two countries (at least politically speaking).

Without knowing just how strong the regional feeling is (although I suspect it's very high), I'm not sure how well "regions" could work. For example, could Perpignan rebrand as Catalunya? They could play more games in Spain, try to bring through more Spanish (or Spanish-Catalan) players and bring in some fans from south of the border. However, I'm not sure how many of their existing fan-base would get ticked off as they don't see themselves to be Catalan.

I suppose it's more complicated with the Basque Country, as there are two top-level clubs there. For example, a Biarritz rebrand could kill Bayonne. A merger between the two clubs could work, but I think it would have to be a full-time merger, there would be too many problems with merging for one competition and splitting for another in the current format of an integrated season.

I suppose there are similarities here with Brighton and Hove. There are two clubs in the city, 1 in Level 6 (us ) and 1 in Level 7. Every now and again, someone will come out and say "why don't you just merge?" - the idea being that if we do there will be much more support and funding and we can have one club that might make it to the national leagues. The obvious fall-out from a merger in this situation is that it will create 3 clubs, not 1. It will create a Brighton and Hove club, and then people from both sides ticked off with the merger will form separate clubs, Old Hove and Old Brighton, call them what you will. Would that be a better situation than we have now? Maybe, maybe not.

Not sure if this would help Spanish rugby at all either. The players looking to take up rugby on the back of this would all consider themselves Basque or Catalan (hence why they want to play for the Basque or Catalan regions) and therefore wouldn't be desperate to play for Spain - and might even end up playing for France if they base there. I suppose there could be a couple of players who might not make it through and end up playing for Spain who are better for the experience of training in a proper academy.

Doesn't make much sense to me.