If it were ever so slightly different......

Sorry to post another topic so soon after, but again - after talking with a friend, we were discussing Ricky Hatton (I may do a series of these)

He is annoyed that I view Ricky Hatton as a over-achiever and although a thoroughly nice bloke he really was an average boxer in my eyes.

Anyway, we argued that it was the fact that Ricky produced a career best against Tszyu that made everyone deluded into thinking that he was worthy of sitting at the P4P table - he argued he belonged there long before, and I claimed that he produced a fine fight, it wasn't at the same level as Mayweather or Pacquiao. I countered with the fact that Mayweather was Hattons definition, and he wasn't world class by some distance.

But what if he was? What if that night against Mayweather, Ricky did something similar? Stepped up his game to the point of actually BEATING PBF? Do you think that the nonsense of Floyd Mayweather Sr. training Hatton for the Pacquiao fight would have happened? If he'd dethroned Mayweather, where could he have gone? Would it have resulted in an even better Hatton facing Pacquiao? Would we have seen an upset or would we have seen the same result? Would he have retired if he'd lost to Pacquiao or would he have come back?

And what would the world of boxing look like now? Would we have Mayweather still holding all the cards?

Just a bit of a debate for you

Hatton was an overachiever he got every bit out of his talent....

Looking back Kosta was made for him and I think he beats him everytime...Like Rosario he became a different fighter If someone took his punch.....

I think the Irish Lefty Hatton fought exposed his limitations early on.....on the deck and found an ordinary fighter troublesome....

I imagine had he beat floyd his reign wouldn't have lasted long.....At welter he was an accident waiting to happen and his complete ineptitude when fighting Manny's southpaw style didn't bode well.....

Nothing wrong with being an overachiever..Duran was....and they are to be applauded....

Personally I think Duran was bang on with his achievements, he was a tough son of a gun, much tougher than Hatton - his "world class" fights you may be referring to in the same vein came later in his career (after some 70+ fights not 40+ in Hattons case) - and he stepped up and beat Leonard so I don't think he over achieved personally.

His world class fights were his world class fights..so it's redundant to say it made a difference considering he was outboxed....

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Sorry to post another topic so soon after, but again - after talking with a friend, we were discussing Ricky Hatton (I may do a series of these)

He is annoyed that I view Ricky Hatton as a over-achiever and although a thoroughly nice bloke he really was an average boxer in my eyes.

Anyway, we argued that it was the fact that Ricky produced a career best against Tszyu that made everyone deluded into thinking that he was worthy of sitting at the P4P table - he argued he belonged there long before, and I claimed that he produced a fine fight, it wasn't at the same level as Mayweather or Pacquiao. I countered with the fact that Mayweather was Hattons definition, and he wasn't world class by some distance.

But what if he was? What if that night against Mayweather, Ricky did something similar? Stepped up his game to the point of actually BEATING PBF? Do you think that the nonsense of Floyd Mayweather Sr. training Hatton for the Pacquiao fight would have happened? If he'd dethroned Mayweather, where could he have gone? Would it have resulted in an even better Hatton facing Pacquiao? Would we have seen an upset or would we have seen the same result? Would he have retired if he'd lost to Pacquiao or would he have come back?

And what would the world of boxing look like now? Would we have Mayweather still holding all the cards?

Just a bit of a debate for you

Stop fantasizing Jabby and get back to reality

I would go down the route that Kostya Tszyu was overrated, in the first place.

He was never as good as people were making out.

When he lost to Ricky Hatton - he had fought once in each of the previous three years. He was an inactive champion and there for the taking.

Hatton did well to beat him but Hatton is unskilled and people like McGuigan, Honeyghan were better than him, if we compare other Brit champions.

He was a pretty decent light-welter I think, has a couple of decent wins besides tzyu to suggest he was good if not great. I think the question of what would have happened if he did beat Floyd is a bit redundant because I just don't think it could really happen.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: Hatton was an overachiever he got every bit out of his talent....

Looking back Kosta was made for him and I think he beats him everytime...Like Rosario he became a different fighter If someone took his punch.....

I think the Irish Lefty Hatton fought exposed his limitations early on.....on the deck and found an ordinary fighter troublesome....
I imagine had he beat floyd his reign wouldn't have lasted long.....At welter he was an accident waiting to happen and his complete ineptitude when fighting Manny's southpaw style didn't bode well.....

Nothing wrong with being an overachiever..Duran was....and they are to be applauded....

Really? Hatton got careless, clipped witha shot and was up immediately after a flash KD. After that, Hatton took a more measured approach and opted to get in and out with shots rather than risk getting tagged again. Magee refused to engage Hatton for something like eight rounds, seeking to stand in the corner and expect Hatton to leave his chin out again. In fact, there were ironic cheers for the crowd when Magee did dare to venture out from the corner.

Tyson was unable to lure Bonecrusher out of his shell. Some days, styles simply don't gel. However, I do agree that Hatton overacheived to some extent and I almost feel that had he retired without fighting Floyd and all those afterwards we would have viewed him much more fondly than we tend to do nowadays.

I remember the fight......Hatton looked cumbersome against a guy who was limited......and didn't believe..

Sad thing about crusher was he hurt Tyson with ten seconds left......Showed he had the weapon to beat him!!..That right hand landed like it did on Weaver and Witherspoon......... Tyson goes...

DAVE667 wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote: Hatton was an overachiever he got every bit out of his talent....

Looking back Kosta was made for him and I think he beats him everytime...Like Rosario he became a different fighter If someone took his punch.....

I think the Irish Lefty Hatton fought exposed his limitations early on.....on the deck and found an ordinary fighter troublesome....
I imagine had he beat floyd his reign wouldn't have lasted long.....At welter he was an accident waiting to happen and his complete ineptitude when fighting Manny's southpaw style didn't bode well.....

Nothing wrong with being an overachiever..Duran was....and they are to be applauded....

Really? Hatton got careless, clipped witha shot and was up immediately after a flash KD. After that, Hatton took a more measured approach and opted to get in and out with shots rather than risk getting tagged again. Magee refused to engage Hatton for something like eight rounds, seeking to stand in the corner and expect Hatton to leave his chin out again. In fact, there were ironic cheers for the crowd when Magee did dare to venture out from the corner.

Tyson was unable to lure Bonecrusher out of his shell. Some days, styles simply don't gel. However, I do agree that Hatton overacheived to some extent and I almost feel that had he retired without fighting Floyd and all those afterwards we would have viewed him much more fondly than we tend to do nowadays.

The problem is that Hatton s remembered for trying to headbutt Mannys fists. A few years down the line we might remember him a little more fondly but for now the memory is too fresh.

Spot on Shah...It was a legacy hurting defeat...... it was right at the end of his career so it's fresh in the mind..with nothing to push it down..

and also it's hard to envisage any other top class fighter looking so incompetent..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:and also it's hard to envisage any other top class fighter looking so incompetent..

Ooooohhh, I dunno, Truss - if you think hard enough I'm sure a certain Panamanian will pop in to your head!

I think Hatton was very much a confidence fighter, so while the Floyd defeat wasn't the most physically punishing it did take something away from him, too. Had he somehow pulled off the one in twenty upset against Mayweather, I imagine it wouldn't have been all that long until another of the top pound for pounders usurped him, but I doubt it would have been in a manner as humiliating and as devastating as we saw against Manny.

a few points, over achiever might be the wrong word hard worker may be better suited, as far as come forward fighters go ricky is one of the greats, however pure come forward fighters dont tend to do so well well considered againist other greats of the time, as style wise they get out boxed (mayweather). also that manny the other great come forward stylistic fighter of the time was better than him doesnt bode well when considering his "greatness". i think he has enough names on his cv, and the record and titles to claim been a great fighter, and the fact that he was beaten by p4p #1 and #2 could never be held against him, it should be a positive if anything, does cottos reputation lose anything for his losses?
the tyzu fight, hattons best moment is overlooked i think, i have a very high respect for kosta, his demolition of a prime judah was a pleasure to watch, and the fight itself (hatton/kosta) showed neither man wanted to loss and neither would back down, kosta's performance that night would have beaten most welterweights out today.