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Early 90's Super Six

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azania
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Early 90's Super Six Empty Early 90's Super Six

Post by hazharrison Fri 01 Feb 2013, 3:20 pm

James Toney
Nigel Benn
Roy Jones Jr
Chris Eubank
Julian Jackson
Bernard Hopkins

How do they place first to last?

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Post by 88Chris05 Fri 01 Feb 2013, 3:52 pm

I'm assuming this series is at 168 lb, Haz? And that we're taking each man based on where they were in the early nineties? If so, then I'd go with....

1) Jones Jr
2) Toney
3) Hopkins
4) Benn
5) Eubank
6) Jackson
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Post by Haito Fri 01 Feb 2013, 3:57 pm

Agree with Chris' outcome. Think Jones and Toney were a cut above the rest. What an amazing contest it would be though.Benn vs Jackson would plsy out like the Barkley fight i think both just going headhunting!
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Post by superflyweight Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:03 pm

Jones Jr
Toney
A country mile...

Eubank
Hopkins
Benn
Jackson

Fancy Eubank to sneak a decision against that version of Hopkins in an absolute stinker. Hopkins too cute for Benn and wins a comfortable decision.

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Post by hazharrison Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:04 pm

How about if this was the draw (then first fights fourth in the semis):

Round one:

Jones v Toney
Benn v Jackson
Eubank v Hopkins

Round two:

Eubank v Jones
Toney v Benn
Hopkins v Jackson

Round three

Benn v Jones
Hopkins v Toney
Jackson v Eubank

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Post by 88Chris05 Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:06 pm

I considered having Hopkins slipping up against one of the Brits, Superfly. As you say, Eubank probably the best bet, but I'm just not sure if Eubank would throw enough leather to get the nod. Still, I wouldn't really quibble with much of what you've put there.
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Post by ShahenshahG Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:07 pm

Jones
Jackson
Eubank

Jones
Toney
Hopkins

Jones
Toney
Eubank

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Post by hazharrison Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:12 pm

So you'd have the following Shah:

Jones (6) v Hopkins (2)
Eubank (4) v Toney (4)




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Post by ShahenshahG Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:14 pm

Aye

Jones beat Hopkins
Toney beats Eubank

Jones Beats Toney

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Post by 88Chris05 Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:24 pm

Round 1: Goes without saying that Jones outscores Toney, based on the evidence! Benn wins a four / five round shoot-out against Jackson after being hurt himself early on. Hopkins, who was a bit more aggressive in his youth, does just enough to edge out Eubank in a stinker.

Round 2: Jones dazzles Eubank to a wide points loss, Toney has too much defensive wizardry in his arsenal for the 'Dark Destroyer' and outfoxes and then stops a fatigued Benn in the championship rounds, and Hopkins pitches a near-shutout against Jackson, who just can't cut the mustard as a Super-Middle.

Round 3: Benn throws all his eggs in to the early stoppage basket against Jones and it backfires, and by the mid to late rounds the referee jumps in to save him as Jones sends out too much of his quicksilver fire power for Nigel to deal with. Toney has Hopkins coming to him and, although it's a cagey affair, he's too accurate and active for the 'Executioner' and decisions him. Jackson's misery is completed when Eubank, knowing that he needs a stoppage win to get himself in the mix to advance, sucks up all the smaller man can throw at him before stopping him with a big finish.

So that'd be Jones, Toney, Hopkins and Eubank going through. In the semis, Jones-Eubank and Toney-Hopkins play out exactly the same as they did in the group stages, as does the Jones-Toney final, with the exception of the salad dodger, having been drilled in to the best shape of his life thanks to the rigours of the tournament, manages to nick a round or two more and frustrate Jones more effectively, as McCallum did. But still no doubting Jones' superiority.
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Post by superflyweight Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:48 pm

Apart from the result of the Eubank - Hopkins fight, Chris has pretty much summed up how I would see it going. Saves me the effort.

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Post by seanmichaels Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:54 pm

Early 90's and no Nunn?

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Post by bellchees Fri 01 Feb 2013, 4:58 pm

Jones a convincing winner goes on the get flattened by Richie Woodhall inside 2 one-sided rounds.

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Post by 88Chris05 Fri 01 Feb 2013, 5:02 pm

bellchees wrote:Jones a convincing winner goes on the get flattened by Richie Woodhall inside 2 one-sided rounds.

Knowing that he'd be emasculated, Jones would duck Woodhall, just like he ducked Eubank, Benn, Collins, Watson, Nunn, Michalczewski, McClellan, Glenn Catley, Joppy, Hearns, Graham, Robert McCracken and Robin Reid.
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Post by Haito Fri 01 Feb 2013, 5:03 pm

Hagler ducked a 15 year old Woodhall for years..
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Post by ShahenshahG Fri 01 Feb 2013, 5:04 pm

Haito wrote:Hagler ducked a 15 year old Woodhall for years..

To be fair - If he was shooting that acne pus at me i'd duck too

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Post by TheMackemMawler Fri 01 Feb 2013, 6:54 pm

Eubank was a tough customer with a granite chin. B-hop wasn't asslick back then and Jones wasn't involved in wars.

It doesn't matter how accurate you are, once Benn was against the ropes and starting bobbing he was difficult to hit with a clean shot.

Benn would have took the Americans to places they had never been before, while Eubank would be out-boxed.

While some fighters can slow the tempo, Nigel would make every fight an all out war, and if he didn't make the whole fight a war at he'd at least make some portions of it one. His territory.

I don't necessarily disagree with the majority of placings, I just think Benn gives them all a tougher night than Eubank would.
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Post by sittingringside Fri 01 Feb 2013, 7:24 pm

This would have been some great boxing. I think I'd like to be a little controversial and say I could see Eubank making it to the final depending on how the matchups go. I think Eubank had a terrific style of fighting that I always enjoyed, a sort of posturing awkwardness that I think really frustrated opponents and had them slightly confused at times. He also had the great attribute of being able to pull out stoppages in key contests, despite not always displaying devastating power. I think he might pull out a couple of real surprises against his more illustrious competitors. I think we can all agree that Jones is probably the best in this tournament by some distance, but I actually feel like the gap between the rest is closer than some might suggest. With that said I do not think 'the rest' includes Julian Jackson in this case, who I see as the worst fighter in this group by a distance.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 01 Feb 2013, 8:27 pm

Julian Jackson vs Nigel Benn raspberry ....

Jones jr
Hopkins
Eubank
Toney
Benn
Jackson

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Fri 01 Feb 2013, 9:02 pm

Jackson (my cousin) knocks out Benn, Hopkins, but is out classed by Toney Jones. Eubank is the only fighter with the chin to stand up to the Hawk.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 01 Feb 2013, 9:05 pm

Jackson knocks out Hoppo but is outclassed by Toney??? WTF..

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Post by ONETWOFOREVER Fri 01 Feb 2013, 9:09 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Jackson knocks out Hoppo but is outclassed by Toney??? WTF..

No doubt.

Followed Jacksons career in the late eighties and nineties. 1 punch killer that guy. Not much skill but a real brute. Hopkins would frustrate him but gets tagged mid to late rounds.

Toney, when he could be bothered was the best of the lot imo. Takes Jackson to a clinic.

yep.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 01 Feb 2013, 9:26 pm

Jackson loses to all of them....too slow......

Has a punchers chance...but everyone on the list is quicker and apart from Benn who blows him away....The others have as much skill as Mccallum...who put him away.

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Post by TheMackemMawler Fri 01 Feb 2013, 9:27 pm

If Julians opponents stood up to his punches they wouldn't look all that. The punches only looked powerful because the guys he clouted flew into orbit.


Last edited by TheMackemMawler on Fri 01 Feb 2013, 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by TheMackemMawler Fri 01 Feb 2013, 9:27 pm

for instance...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQF-Q9BeLAw
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Post by severe-mma Sun 03 Feb 2013, 11:29 am

Massive fan of Benn so maybe Im biased but I reckon he wins the lot if he is on form.

Benn
Jones
Eubank
Toney
Jackson
Hopkins

I dont think any fighter would go unbeaten. Benn was the most dangerous fighter of the lot because of the power he had but Eubank was able to beat him so I reckon the winner would have a 5-1 or a 4-2 record. Shame these mini tournaments dont happen more in boxing.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 03 Feb 2013, 11:46 am

At least you've now confirmed you know the sum total of nothing.

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Post by severe-mma Sun 03 Feb 2013, 8:24 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:At least you've now confirmed you know the sum total of nothing.

Haha thats good coming from someone who thinks basketball aint a global sport because he dont know nothing about it.


Last edited by 88Chris05 on Sun 03 Feb 2013, 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Breaking house rules)

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Post by 88Chris05 Sun 03 Feb 2013, 8:32 pm

I've edited that post of yours, severe-mma, and you know why so please don't bother asking or complaining. Debate properly.
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Post by azania Sun 03 Feb 2013, 8:45 pm

severe-mma wrote:Massive fan of Benn so maybe Im biased but I reckon he wins the lot if he is on form.

Benn
Jones
Eubank
Toney
Jackson
Hopkins

I dont think any fighter would go unbeaten. Benn was the most dangerous fighter of the lot because of the power he had but Eubank was able to beat him so I reckon the winner would have a 5-1 or a 4-2 record. Shame these mini tournaments dont happen more in boxing.

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Post by huw Mon 04 Feb 2013, 9:54 am

I think Benn could have given Jones Jr a hard time in there, if he was able to get him into a war then it would be interesting to see how Jones Jr would have coped.

For me it would have been between Toney and Jones Jr for the win based on skill, but if Benn could have troubled Jones Jr in their fight it may inspire a couple of the others to do the same.

Bit of a Benn fan though so probably very clouded judgement!

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Post by bhb001 Mon 04 Feb 2013, 12:19 pm

severe-mma wrote:
Benn
Jones
Eubank
Toney
Jackson
Hopkins

I dont think any fighter would go unbeaten. Benn was the most dangerous fighter of the lot because of the power he had but Eubank was able to beat him so I reckon the winner would have a 5-1 or a 4-2 record.

So, each fighter would have to fight themselves to get in six fights. I would bet that most of those are a draw except Benn vs Benn which I'd have Benn by knockout!

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Post by severe-mma Mon 04 Feb 2013, 7:01 pm

You need a top chin to be able to beat Benn and Jones aint got one. Benn would spark him.

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Post by azania Mon 04 Feb 2013, 7:03 pm

Benn would need a top chin and he lacked it.

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Post by severe-mma Mon 04 Feb 2013, 7:05 pm

You aint never seen Benn v the GMan if you think Benn aint got a top cin. Gman had much more power than Jones.

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Post by azania Mon 04 Feb 2013, 7:31 pm

severe-mma wrote:You aint never seen Benn v the GMan if you think Benn aint got a top cin. Gman had much more power than Jones.

I was at Benn v Watson where Benn wiped the floor from a jab.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Mon 04 Feb 2013, 9:58 pm

Better fighters than Benn couldn't get near jones' chin until he was in his mid 30's, even then we're talking about powerful light heavyweights.

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Post by ShahenshahG Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:07 pm

Aye - its like Benn will do his thing and Jones will allow him to do it. Jones can only be beaten by a superb timer or a nonstop brawler like Greb and even then I'd question if they could beat him at his peak.

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Post by azania Mon 04 Feb 2013, 10:20 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:Aye - its like Benn will do his thing and Jones will allow him to do it. Jones can only be beaten by a superb timer or a nonstop brawler like Greb and even then I'd question if they could beat him at his peak.

warning

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Post by Guest Tue 05 Feb 2013, 12:29 am

severe-mma wrote:You need a top chin to be able to beat Benn and Jones aint got one. Benn would spark him.

But neither of them is the GOAT innit.

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Post by JabMachineMK2 Tue 05 Feb 2013, 2:17 am

severe-mma wrote:Massive fan of Benn so maybe Im biased but I reckon he wins the lot if he is on form.

Benn
Jones
Eubank
Toney
Jackson
Hopkins

I dont think any fighter would go unbeaten. Benn was the most dangerous fighter of the lot because of the power he had but Eubank was able to beat him so I reckon the winner would have a 5-1 or a 4-2 record. Shame these mini tournaments dont happen more in boxing.

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

Jones being beaten by Benn is one of the funniest things I've heard in a while.

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Post by fearlessBamber Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:02 am

Toney KO10 Benn
Jones W12 Toney
Toney W12 Eubank
Toney KO6 Jackson
Hopkins W12 Toney
Jones KO4 Benn
Benn W12 Eubank
Benn KO2 Jackson
Hopkins W12 Benn
Jones W12 Eubank
Jones KO6 Jackson
Jones W12 Hopkins
Eubank KO10 Jackson
Hopkins W12 Eubank
Hopkins KO11 Jackson

Jones 5-0
Hopkins 4-1
Toney 3-2
Benn 2-3
Eubank 1-4
Jackson 0-5

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:17 am

Jones W12 Hopkins.....Amazing how nearly 100% see Jones beating Hoppo everytime and yet when it's time to look at Junior's ATG spot..

Hoppo was green..

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Post by fearlessBamber Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:31 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Jones W12 Hopkins.....Amazing how nearly 100% see Jones beating Hoppo everytime and yet when it's time to look at Junior's ATG spot..

Hoppo was green..

He was and their first fight was much closer than the commentators made out. Jones still has to be favourite though.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:39 am

Not a criticism to you........It's just that this whole green business sucks..

Sanchez gets lauded for Nelson who was "green".........

and Jones gets sack all praise for green Hoppo..

For me nobody prepares Hoppo for Jones as nobody prepares Nelson for Sanchez!!!

They have their styles and the better fighters won...

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Post by hazharrison Tue 05 Feb 2013, 10:46 am

How about we take the big dogs out and throw in a couple replacements?

1) Collins
2) Liles
3) Nunn
4) Benn
5) Eubank
6) Jackson

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Tue 05 Feb 2013, 12:45 pm

Truss we're talking about the early 90's version of Hopkins who was lacking the experience of the version who was beating Trinidad. That version certainly gives jones a lot to think about.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 05 Feb 2013, 1:50 pm

Hoppo is still the same fighter he was then......Hard to get the experience to battle great fighters..because you haven't got an opponent to help..

Disagree Jones had the guy's number!!

What would Nelson have done different in Sanchez 2???......who could he fight like Salvador to get ready..

You are what you are............generally.


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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 05 Feb 2013, 2:05 pm

I tend to agree with Truss here; I'm not sure what Hopkins could or would have done differently had he got another crack at Jones around 2001 / 2002, regardless of that extra experience.

I'm slightly surprised, I guess, that the Trinidad fight is often held up as some kind of watershed moment for Hopkins when it comes to this subject, as if he was a totally different animal and much improved fighter from that point on compared to what he'd been in 1993. To me, his 1997 performance against Johnson was his best moment as a Middleweight and Trinidad, while being a very fine fighter in his own right, wasn't a top class 160 pounder.

I don't really see a great change between the 1993 and 2002 versions of Hopkins, more just subtle little brush ups and improvements in areas where he'd always been strong in any case. He'd learned with the added experience, of course, but then again so had Jones. It's true that the first fight was competitive (I had it 116-113 to Roy, so an unquestionable win while not being the one-sided tanning some make it out to be), but that was a very safety-first Jones that night; in his post-fight interview, he acknowledged that he'd been a little unsettled and spooked by the fact that this was his first world title bout and the first time he'd really been under the spotlight in the paid ranks.

Also, this was a Jones who was still under his father's careful management and training, I believe - once he switched to Merkerson, he became a hell of a lot more attacking and aggressive, throwing far more flurries and combinations rather than relying on his one-punch power which was, admittedly, brilliant. On that form, Jones had a consistent level of dominance and absolute rule over his peers that Hopkins just never quite managed.

I'm a great admirer of Hopkins, but Roy was just the better fighter for me.
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Post by hazharrison Tue 05 Feb 2013, 2:34 pm

"Trinidad, while being a very fine fighter in his own right, wasn't a top class 160 pounder".

Tell that to William Joppy...

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