Wales changes for Italy

by t1000advancedprototype Sat 09 Feb 2013, 7:08 pm

First topic message reminder :

Are Wales a 2nd half team or are the replacements better players?

I would pick

15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Alex Cuthbert
13. Jon Davies
12. James Hook (Roberts isn't doing much and he missed tackles)
11. George North
10. Dan Biggar
9. Mike Phillips

8. Toby Faletau
7. Justin Tipuric
6. Ryan Jones
5. Ian Evans
4. Alun-wyn Jones (back from injury)
3. Adam Jones
2. Richard Hibbard
1. Paul James (no brainer)

16. Gethin Jenkins
17. Ken Owens
18. Craig Mitchell
19. Sam Warburton
20. Lloyd Williams
21. Jamie Roberts
22. Lee Byrne

by Guest Tue 12 Feb 2013, 8:57 am

t1000advancedprototype wrote:AWJ must return.

Our scrum was terrible vs France and we badly need the extra bulk experience.

Coombs has been very good. I don't like people using this term "journeyman" and premiership player. He's a natural 6. I would like to see him on the bench as back row cover.

I don't like the term journeyman either, especially for someone who isn't one. Journeyman tends to mean someone who's moved around from club to club, falling out of favour and so finding someone else to take them, perhaps eventually getting a bit of form to make their way into the test team, or getting called up due to injury.

In Andrew Coombs' case he's just on a prgression pathway like any young player these days. He went from Newport youth to Pontypool and Newport semi pro, up to the regional pro team, and now international level. It's just taken him a bit longer. Just because you're not capped at 21 does not make you a journeyman!

by t1000advancedprototype Tue 12 Feb 2013, 9:06 am

Ryan Jones could move to 4 in the second half?

He's the forward equivalent of Hook.

by t1000advancedprototype Tue 12 Feb 2013, 9:10 am

Griff wrote:
t1000advancedprototype wrote:AWJ must return.

Our scrum was terrible vs France and we badly need the extra bulk experience.

Coombs has been very good. I don't like people using this term "journeyman" and premiership player. He's a natural 6. I would like to see him on the bench as back row cover.

I don't like the term journeyman either, especially for someone who isn't one. Journeyman tends to mean someone who's moved around from club to club, falling out of favour and so finding someone else to take them, perhaps eventually getting a bit of form to make their way into the test team, or getting called up due to injury.

In Andrew Coombs' case he's just on a prgression pathway like any young player these days. He went from Newport youth to Pontypool and Newport semi pro, up to the regional pro team, and now international level. It's just taken him a bit longer. Just because you're not capped at 21 does not make you a journeyman!

Andy Powell is more of a journeyman if you want examples. He's had more clubs than Tiger Woods and in 2008 he was in the right place at the right time. He even had a little spell of form that somehow got him on the Lions tour.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 12 Feb 2013, 9:20 am

Another thing that people probably don't know is that Coombs captained Newport RFC for a couple of seasons.

by Glas a du Tue 12 Feb 2013, 9:22 am

Of course Coombes and Ryan can cover the second row.

by dragonbreath Tue 12 Feb 2013, 10:33 am

wales606 wrote:
dragonbreath wrote:
gavstar wrote:dragonbreath, what game were you watching? as griff said earlier, when he could ,biggar tried to vary with grubbers, chips , took it on himself, our centres had some good ball today and messed up big time.

this was biggars 2nd 6 nations game out of 13 caps

and as for the other games he has started in.... 2 canada, 2 nz, 1 fiji, 1 samoa. 1 barbarians, we are going back from 2008. hes only 23 now!!

if you are a hook supporter, which i suspect, look at his stats for wales. 33 times at fh, 19 starts plus 68 caps in all, never nailed the shirt, and was moved on at club level too, so, get over it, new kid on the block,

i hope he has a great 6 nations, too much looking backwards, picking on previous reputations has done us no good

time to move on. you are expecting our 10 to do everything. shipping ball on , yes to lions centre , well why not? shouldnt our lions centre have done something with the ball? biggar had a blue line in front all game. opportunities were few, there was another team on the park !!! dont you think the team had any backs moves if the opportunity was there for the call ?

ball was slow again today from rucks, do you think biggar is a miracle worker. get real. that kick for the try was excellent and anyone who cant accept that has no real knowledge of what it takes to perform at this level.

creative you say? you create something for others ,its a team game, the amount of ball the centres ,and not so often the wings, had today and messed up was criminal.

i suspect you mean blind alley running a la hook , showboating getting isolated, turned over, miracle passes ,ohs and ahs from the crowd.....with no outcome

if you cant at least credit the kick for the try then i wonder why you support wales.

I certainly don't think Bigger is a miracle worker, far from it. The kick for the try did not involve any great insight, he got a terrible pass and had to kick, it was well judged and George got a nice bounce but lets not elevate it to having great vision. I think we will have to disagree on Bigger and no I am not as big a fan of Hooky as you seem to be of Bigger. One of the reasons our centres are being shut down is that Bigger offers no threat and everyone knows it, Hook can do basics and is playing well, and has the ability to do more. Bigger will never be any more than what you saw Saturday, in fact that is about as well as he can play and our back line is simply not moving. Its Hobsons choice but I would try Hook. Bigger is just keeping the shirt warm for someone else who I hope emereges sooner rather than later

Sorry, but that's rubbish.

Biggar wasn't forced to kick - he has time to pass but deliberately waited until the French defence were up flat

As for not posing a threat, when Biggar ran the ball 7 times, passes 28 times and kicked 12 times - in those 7 runs he made more ground than Roberts did in 10! He mixed up his running, passing and kicking game very well. He isn't the perfect player and did make mistakes, but he is no longer a simple kicking FH, he has a much more rounded game than a few years ago and is actually a more complete FH than Hook.

Give Biggar the same amount of games Hook or Preistland had and I am pretty sure he will be a better player than either.

Bigger is Farrell lite you may be happy with that I am not

by dragonbreath Tue 12 Feb 2013, 10:44 am

youngguns6 wrote:Why any one would drop Coombs is beyond me. He's been very good so far. It's purely down to the majority of supporters haven't watched him for the Dragons as we're not the fasionable region.

He has played very well and exceeded many expectations including my own. However our Scrum has struggled and Jenkins has taken the flack for much of this, but a prop need weight and Coombes may just not be powerful enough at this level. It seems harsh but if a genuine Lions standard 2nd row is available then he has to play

by Glas a du Tue 12 Feb 2013, 10:54 am

That's right, but Coombes has proved himself worthy of second row cover, especially of behind a better prop than Jenkins i.e. James.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:32 pm

AWJ has been called into the Welsh squad ahead of the Italy game, no real surprise there and guess it will be straight into the match day squad at least.

by Glas a du Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:34 pm

Honestly as long as he's there, he doesn't have to start does he. It's a 23 man game nowadays.

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:37 pm

Coombs has done well and IMO has superseded Shingler - Hence if AWJ plays Coombs remains a great 6 or 2nd row option from the bench. Well done lad I was one of your doubters but you've done us all proud thumbsup

by bedfordwelsh Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:37 pm

Glas,

I agree and I would like to think Howley will show a bit of loylalty to Coombs, a bench containing Jenkins (James should start), AWJ and Warburton wouldn't be to shabby either.

by Glas a du Tue 12 Feb 2013, 12:50 pm

Exactly. Excited post paid a siarad.

by Casartelli Tue 12 Feb 2013, 1:42 pm

BBC reporting that Howley will announce an unchanged team.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 12 Feb 2013, 1:45 pm

That's a bit early, isn't it? They usually wait until a day before the official announcement to leak the team selection.

by Casartelli Tue 12 Feb 2013, 1:56 pm

It was on lunch time news. Maybe it's a WUM. Crazy Welsh newsreaders.

by Casartelli Tue 12 Feb 2013, 1:57 pm

No - not a WUM, barring injuries Howley will name same 'side'. So maybe subs bench changes?

by Casartelli Tue 12 Feb 2013, 1:59 pm

http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12507/8495472/Rob-Howley-to-name-unchanged-Wales-team-for-Rome-trip

by bedfordwelsh Tue 12 Feb 2013, 2:10 pm

Wales will retain the same starting XV that beat France for their next Six Nations clash against Italy, meaning there will be no place for regular skipper Sam Warburton.

Cardiff Blues flanker Warburton missed the 16-6 triumph in Paris after suffering a shoulder injury in the previous weekend's defeat at home to Ireland. Ospreys flanker Ryan Jones took over the captaincy in Paris with Justin Tipuric filling Warburton's No.7 spot, and the performances of the duo mean Warburton will not come back into the starting line-up even if he is fully recovered from his 'stinger' injury.

Interim head coach Rob Howley said: "I have told the players the same XV will start in Italy. I think it is pretty important from a coach's perspective that we reward the players who have gone out on the field.

"I thought Ryan Jones was outstanding in terms of his leadership and it is a just reward that he captains the side against Italy."

Off ESPN as well.

I am never one to being afraid toi admit I was wrong, I honestly thought Howley wouldn't have guts to not bring Warburton back but fair play to him he has so well done Rob.

There is no mention of bench so I would guess Sam and AWJ would be there which is good.

by Taffineastbourne Tue 12 Feb 2013, 2:14 pm

Must admit that Howley has got this right.To beat France away and get the elbow would have been a shocker.Fair play to the bloke.Hopefully we will have a strong bench which will be no bad thing.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 12 Feb 2013, 2:16 pm

Yep, fair play to him.

by Comfort Tue 12 Feb 2013, 2:19 pm

I wouldnt be too against it, as long as AWJ comes onto the bench with Warburton.

The boys have just turned around an 8 game losing streak by winning in Paris, not something we do that often anyway, so its a good way of giving the boys that added bit of confidence from his end for the next game.

Agree, Coombs has done very well in the circumstances (like Ruby, I was a doubter) and he has played well and can now be counted as a very good backup for the 4/6. Although, AWJ is a genuine lions test quality lock, and our scrum needs him, as does our physicality at the breakdown. The sooner we can get him back in the lineup next to Evans the better.

ps. Evans has been excellant considering he hasnt played since November, if he keeps going this way I would expect to see him as the welsh second row representative for the lions.

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 2:19 pm

Not everyone played well and you just don't reward everyone when you're looking to IMPROVE. It may just be Robs semantics but there is plenty that we could and should improve on. We were destroyed in the scrums and our lack of power and weight was evident. This is Italys strength. I don't want your rewards Rob i want something far more analytical and critical but I know you're incapable of that. Don't leave it too late like you did against Ireland if your reward is not working thumbsup

by Casartelli Tue 12 Feb 2013, 2:31 pm

Italy will be buoyed by this. They 'fronted up' well against France so I can't see them being worried by anything we're going to throw at them in a bishbosh-fest.

This rewarding the boys for a 'rare win in Paris' lark doesn't mean much when it's the worst French side in decades. In rugby terms I don't think we've progressed since the dark days of the AIs - we were just lucky to play a shambolic, weirdly selected, France XV.

Frustrating thing is, if we played positive, attacking, 15 man rugby, which we're very capable of if we only gave it a go, we'd run them off the pitch and score 50+

Can't see us winning again in this 6N.

by Ospreydragon Tue 12 Feb 2013, 3:06 pm

BBC have just confimed again that the same team will start against Italy. Warburton's Lions chances are diminishing. Ryan Jones deserves to keep his place at 6 - for me, he was MOM, closely followed by 1/2p.

by ScarletSpiderman Tue 12 Feb 2013, 3:10 pm

Ospreydragon wrote:BBC have just confimed again that the same team will start against Italy. Warburton's Lions chances are diminishing. Ryan Jones deserves to keep his place at 6 - for me, he was MOM, closely followed by 1/2p.

What's the bets on Tipuric picking up a knock between now and the match so Warbs can return?

by Ospreydragon Tue 12 Feb 2013, 3:14 pm

ScarletSpiderman, Plenty of players have lost their place in training/prep for matches. Anything's possible. But if Tips is not injured, I suspect he was always going to be considered for the Italy match.

by bedfordwelsh Tue 12 Feb 2013, 3:46 pm

The AWJ and Warburton selections aside I am glad he hasn't gone for wholesale changes we just aren't in a good enough place still to do that.

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 3:48 pm

Paul James and AWJ would have improved the team thumbsup

by Ospreydragon Tue 12 Feb 2013, 4:06 pm

"Paul James and AWJ would have improved the team" - I thought Gethin Played much better against France, so he deserves another chance to start. Paul J will definitely get game time.

AWJ was impressive when he came on as a sub for the O's, and maybe he can do that as a sub against Italy.

Overall, I think the team deserves another runout after such a gutsy performance. I would like to see Byrne on the bench instead of Liam.

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 4:11 pm

I would like to see Byrne there instead of Liam who remains a bit of a liability IMO thumbsup

by Impossible Standards Tue 12 Feb 2013, 4:18 pm

I think this is good by Howley. It does give a good message to players. I would still like to see AWJ come on for 30 mins though to get more game time under his belt. Coombes has played well as cover and deserves a shot at Italy but I will agree that come Scotland and England we will need 2 specialist locks on the field.

by Ospreydragon Tue 12 Feb 2013, 4:22 pm

I find it hard to make a proper judgement about how our scrum went against France. Adam got pinged a couple of times but he also won a pen too. The pitch was so awful -- it's hard to judge. I think it's very important that we have a balanced bench -- with some players who can bring something different to the game. I don't suspect that Eli W will play a part in this 6N -- maybe he was brought in to the squad to train and gain exp of the env, and his injury probably hasn't helped his chances, but if the game breaks up it woul be nice to see people like him get 20 mins against Italy.

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 4:24 pm

The most important selection for this game is who plays 10 for Italy thumbsup

by Impossible Standards Tue 12 Feb 2013, 4:27 pm

The most important selection for this game is who plays 10 for Italy

Isn't that the most important selection for ANY game for us Welsh!

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 4:31 pm

Try reading it again IS thumbsup

by thebluesmancometh Tue 12 Feb 2013, 5:30 pm

Now the pressures off Howley has a bit of buffer, if he brings Warbs and AWJ in people aren't angry, same way is if he doesn't.

What will annoy people is if key players such as Tipuric are dropped, and there is a risk he might be. This would be a huge mistake, Tipuric has been excellent in everything he's done so far, and has the Wales 7 shirt and should be given the opportunity to take the Lions 7 shirt too.

by Ospreydragon Tue 12 Feb 2013, 6:18 pm

I agree about Tipuric. He has been performing consistently well at club level and is now reproducing that form at intl. He should keep the shirt until his form drops.

by Glas a du Tue 12 Feb 2013, 6:37 pm

Team's unchanged, can someone delete this thread please?

by wales606 Tue 12 Feb 2013, 6:49 pm

Glas a du wrote:Team's unchanged, can someone delete this thread please?

Starting 15 is unchanged

Not the bench

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 7:04 pm

I've seen the bench and it's changed thumbsup

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 7:06 pm

The bench in Italy is a long teak one with black leather padding with the sponsors name along it - It looks pretty comfortable but I wouldn't want to sit on it for 80 minutes. thumbsup

by thebluesmancometh Tue 12 Feb 2013, 7:08 pm

Have we named the team already??? eh?

So Howley prefers to wait a day after everyone else in the last 2 weeks yet names his team 11 days early for Italy?

by bedfordwelsh Tue 12 Feb 2013, 7:16 pm

RubyGuby wrote:I would like to see Byrne there instead of Liam who remains a bit of a liability IMO

Ruby,

Isn't it Scott not Liam on the bench?

by majesticimperialman Tue 12 Feb 2013, 7:49 pm

I am not suggesting that the coach should not show loyalty to his players. But naming an unchanged team NOW, seems, i dont know, to be like keeping the players hopes up. ....and not to get too down hearted if they did not get on the field last week. Maybe next time. from the bench.

by Ospreydragon Tue 12 Feb 2013, 7:50 pm

bedfordwelsh, Yes, you're right -- Liam wasn't on the bench against France (or Ireland -- I think L Williams causes a bit of confusion!).

by RubyGuby Tue 12 Feb 2013, 7:59 pm

Ok I'd keep Scott Williams in there then - Can you lot stop trying to confuse me please - thumbsup

by gavstar Tue 12 Feb 2013, 8:20 pm

cynical of me i know, but.........team named this early MAYBE means it will have1 or even 2 changes.

fans sarcastic comments about warbs stinger, relieved from duty LAST minute, so this early shout COULD be a smokey.

gets most press, public on side, then oh, what a shame, in training..........

stranger things have happened. BUT WOULD ANYONE GO TO SUCH LENGTHS
probably i'm wrong.............. censored

.....well maybe..... censored

by Ospreydragon Tue 12 Feb 2013, 8:33 pm

gavstar -

"Obviously we are mindful that the XV selected is dependent on injuries, with some players playing before next week, but if everyone comes through it will be the same XV."

What you imply might turn out to be true.

Source:

http://www.therugbyblog.co.uk/six-nations-2013-howley-names-wales-team-to-play-italy

by thebluesmancometh Tue 12 Feb 2013, 8:40 pm

Won't most of those players go back to their clubs for a game?

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