Your Lions 23 after round 2 of the 6 nations

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taking this weekends matches into account who would you select in the Lions match day 23?

i'd go with

1. C.Healy
2. R.Best
3. A.Jones
4. J.Launchberry
5. R.Gray
6. S.O'Brien
7. J.Tipuric
8. T.Faletau
9. B.Youngs
10. O.Farrell
11. G.North
12. M.Tuilagi
13. B.O'Driscoll (c)
14. A.Cuthbert
15. L.Halfpenny

16. T.Youngs
17. A.Sheridan
18. D.Cole
19. AW-Jones
20. S.O'Brien
21. M.Phillips
22. J.Sexton
23. J.Roberts

lostinwales wrote:Heaslip? based on what exactly.... Murray too

Based on the games so far I'd also have issues with Visser - (still mr turnstyle) and Tuilagi who will go but so far all hes done is smile

Heaslip and murray had the shirts before the tournament for me and no 8 has yet done enough to replace him, Murray has chemistry with Sexton on his side as gatland will look for chemistry, hence also the English centres, was a fraction from saying bod instead of tuilagi. Visser is there because of being a better option atm than north, Cuthbert, Gilroy and Ashton

ChequeredJersey wrote:Risky, you think Scotland would have scored 5 tries in that rain? Against either of those defences? Plus England kicked too much, and seemed to refuse to ever give the ball to any wingers but last time I checked there are positions on the rugby pitch that aren't pass orientated, and England didn't make that many handling errors. How you can discard Robshaw, Farrell and Cole like that is beyond me. Brown made 74m on the wing despite the lack of passing. And out of position. That's nearly as much as Hogg made without the 98m interception!

Some Scotland players got points fo this weekend definitely but to then trash all the other 3 sides' players like that, when players like Halfpeny, Robshaw and Best still had bloody good games, lacks class, chap

No Scotland would or have scored 5 tries, but at is not what I am judging this on.

Both teams were error strewn, nervous, took poor decisions and played poorly. It happens. The weather was bad, but not that bad, so to use it as a excuse not to even have good tactics is silly. (Watch the Scotland vs Australia where it was in a hurricane and less mistakes were made)

On the whole, the English players are very good, and will make up a lot of the lions deservedly. But this game was very poor.

Ireland had a shocker.

This is based on this one game, if based on form over last 6 months, then the team would e different.

And just imagine if it had been the Scotland Italy match that was like that.

They would have been the most negative feed back possible from everyone and no excuse would be allowed. Weather would not be considered an excuse

Just feel it is fair to have a consistency in feed back

Riskysports

When Scotland beat Australia 9-6 in terrible conditions no-one said that the sides should have played free flowing rugby and scored tries - it was acknowledged that in that weather that was never going to happen. Same for Ireland vs England.

No, if you want an example of a poor game, you should be looking at the France-Wales one. Two teams with everything to play for failing to generate much of interest in good conditions. One moment of brilliance aside, it was a dull game.

Ireland-England was a much more intense game. The error count was high, but only partly because of the rain. A lot of Ireland's errors came because experienced players were looking at the tackler rather than the ball. That only happened because England's defensive line were moving up fast enough to unsettle them time after time.

Bad decision-making? You don't emerge from having a player in the bin having outscored the opposition 6-3 through bad decision making.

I thought Ian Evans started to put himself into serious contention this weekend.

I think Maitland should be in with a shout, he's got very good creativity in attack and a solid defence. I guess we'll see over the next few games though!

Yeah next two weeks are big ones from a Scottish perspective. The potential has been shown, now can the team do it against two teams with excellent defence? If they can win both games its gonna make life very awkward for Gatland which will be very good for the Lions in my opinion, there'll be no easy picks. Hopefully it will also mean a very even balance from each nation, possibly making it one of the best Lions tours ever!

Heaslip has been mince. He can't seriously be in contention if he drops 2 balls in a game...

my Lions XV based on the 1st 2 rounds.

1. Healy - Although one more display of such thuggery and he would be off my list.

2. Best - A class act yesterday in poor conditions.

3. Cole - A fascinating conflict at the scrum yesterday.

4. Gray - Seemingly getting back to his best, worked really hard on Saturday.

5. Parling - Looked great against Ireland

6. Harley - Was absolutely superb on Saturday for Scotland and offered way more than any other blindside in the tournament. Everyone seemed to fawn over Lydiate last season, well here's your replacement.

7. Robshaw (C) - he has been excellent. Captaincy is yours mate. Gel the lions like you have gelled England please.

8. Beattie - Got through a mountain of work for Scotland, carried well and tackled well.

9. Youngs - Laidlaw was excellent for Scotland but Youngs was sublime for England.

10. Farrell - Justifying his nomination for player of the year. With Sexton being injured now (we don't know how long for) the door is open for Farrell to make a push.

11. Ashton - Played well against Scotland and Ireland.

12. Scott - Had a great 2 games. A good defensive shift against England making 12 tackles and missing 2, and an assured attacking performance against Italy.

13. BOD - If he remains uninjured...

14. Halfpenny - Almost a role reversal of older days when the sublime JPR pushed Irvine to the Wing I reckon Hogg will return the favour for Wales. I want Halfpenny playing but Hogg has been the better full back this 6N.

15. Hogg - The form Fullback.

After round 2 only.

1. Marler
2. Best
3. Cole
4. Ryan
5. Gray
6. Brown
7. Robshaw
8. R Jones
9. Youngs
10. Farrel
11. Maitland
12. Scott
13. Barritt
14. North
15. Hogg

16. Healy
17. Hartley
18. A Jones
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Laidlaw
22. Biggar
23. Brown

Going based on form from round 2...

1.Grant
2.Best
3.Cole
4.Gray
5.Parling
6.Brown
7.Robshaw
8.Beattie
9.Youngs
10.Farrell
11.Visser/North
12.Scott
13.Barrit
14.Maitland
15.Hogg/Halfpenny

Starting XV after round 2 only, but also factoring in that Scotland played lower quality Italy:

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Cole
4. I Evans
5. Gray
6. Robshaw
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. North
12. Scott
13. BOD
14. Visser
15. 1/2 p

16. Healy
17. Hartley
18. A Jones
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Laidlaw
22. Biggar
23. Brown

Assuming the priority is to win at all costs, as opposed to harmoniously representing the countries of GB, NI and Ire in a spirit of rugby togetherness etc;

The England team, only with Best at hooker and back three of North, Visser and Byrne.

Australia couldn't deal with that. Job done.

BigWilly wrote:Starting XV after round 2 only, but also factoring in that Scotland played lower quality Italy:

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Cole
4. I Evans
5. Gray
6. Robshaw
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. North
12. Scott
13. BOD
14. Visser
15. 1/2 p

16. Healy
17. Hartley
18. A Jones
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Laidlaw
22. Biggar
23. Brown

|I'll remember this for when Italy roll Wales in 2 weeks

Your team is a joke though. Jenkins got mullered in France & Hibbard is so far behind Best it's actually like a WUM team.

You tell 'em, Radge.

Thinking about it after the weekend, and going only with those who have played so far, something like this seems reasonable:

1) Healy 2) Best 3) Cole 4) Gray/Launchbury 5) McCarthy 6) O'Brien 7) Robshaw 8) Faletau 9) Youngs 10) Farrell 11) North 12) Barritt 13) O'Driscoll 14) Halfpenny 15) Hogg

Think Gray was back to something like his best and he and Launchbury have similar attributes. Tough to choose between them right now. McCarthy seriously impresses me. A bit of an abrasive edge that the team will need. Back row is very open - lots of 6s and 6.5s putting their hands up, but no-one has had two better games than Robshaw this year.

By including Barritt, I've slightly surprised myself, but Ive always thought that the combination of incisiveness and defensive solidity in the midfield is the ideal one. Barritt marshals a defensive line better than anyone at the moment and has proved lately that he isn't entirely a one-trick pony. Halfpenny simply has to play - by far the best Welsh back for the past year. Hogg, however, has a touch of geniusand I want him at full-back. In the absence of an outstanding 14 (Bowe would have been my choice, I'm sure), Halfpenny is quite an easy selection at right wing.

You probably need to calm down a bit, not good for your blood pressure to get all het up. Gethin did his job (nothing spectacular) in the scrum (as good as you'll get from him), but brilliant in the loose, like an extra flanker. Hibbard could well be the Lions hooker come the summer in the absence of any real quality in this position

Italy shouldn't be a problem now, then a tough win in Scotland will mean Wales denying England of the GS in Cardiff and possibly to take the title if France turn up in London next week (which they might do with wholesale changes and the incentive of beating an overrated England side oozing false modesty).

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

BigWilly wrote:Starting XV after round 2 only, but also factoring in that Scotland played lower quality Italy:

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Cole
4. I Evans
5. Gray
6. Robshaw
7. Tipuric
8. Faletau
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. North
12. Scott
13. BOD
14. Visser
15. 1/2 p

16. Healy
17. Hartley
18. A Jones
19. Lawes
20. Tipuric
21. Laidlaw
22. Biggar
23. Brown

|I'll remember this for when Italy roll Wales in 2 weeks

Your team is a joke though. Jenkins got mullered in France & Hibbard is so far behind Best it's actually like a WUM team.

Best is head and shoulders above any of his counterparts at the moment and whilst there no such thing as a shoe in at the moment he's nearest to it.

BigWilly wrote:You probably need to calm down a bit, not good for your blood pressure to get all het up. Gethin did his job (nothing spectacular) in the scrum (as good as you'll get from him), but brilliant in the loose, like an extra flanker. Hibbard could well be the Lions hooker come the summer in the absence of any real quality in this position

Italy shouldn't be a problem now, then a tough win in Scotland will mean Wales denying England of the GS in Cardiff and possibly to take the title if France turn up in London next week (which they might do with wholesale changes and the incentive of beating an overrated England side oozing false modesty).

I need to calm down? "Hibbard could be the Lions Hooker due to and absence in any real Quality?" Have you seen Best play?

Gethin did not do his job, he got butchered in the Scrums and it would have been a lot worse if the Stade de France stadium didn't cut up like a freshly ploughed field, Clancy was powerless to hand out penalties under those circumstances. Also we don't need an extra flanker, we will have plenty of them touring. We need a loosehead who can really put the Ozzie scrum under pressure. Jenkins hasn't been doing that for Wales since he has been poor or Toulon since he has been on the bench.

BigWilly wrote: Gethin did his job (nothing spectacular) in the scrum (as good as you'll get from him), but brilliant in the loose, like an extra flanker

Problem being, Wales need a loosehead who can scrummage and a scrum half who can pass, not four flankers.

RuggerRadge

On the whole I think you've picked a good team - though I'd say that Twelvetrees outplayed Scott last week and I think it could be a close call between Harley and Wood if they both continue at their current rate. O'Brien is also a blindside option of course.

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

BigWilly wrote: Gethin did his job (nothing spectacular) in the scrum (as good as you'll get from him), but brilliant in the loose, like an extra flanker

Problem being, Wales need a loosehead who can scrummage and a scrum half who can pass, not four flankers.

We have a loosehead who can scrummage in James but Howler blindly picks Jenkins as for No9 Phillips is good at what he does and he had a very good 60 minutes but then gave way to the quicker service of Williams.

Phillips is still our No1 and I am happy if he keeps his form like saturday.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:

BigWilly wrote: Gethin did his job (nothing spectacular) in the scrum (as good as you'll get from him), but brilliant in the loose, like an extra flanker

Problem being, Wales need a loosehead who can scrummage and a scrum half who can pass, not four flankers.

We have a loosehead who can scrummage in James but Howler blindly picks Jenkins as for No9 Phillips is good at what he does and he had a very good 60 minutes but then gave way to the quicker service of Williams.

Phillips is still our No1 and I am happy if he keeps his form like saturday.

You dont' think it was the Urgency Williams brought that created the oppertunity for your try?

Phillips would be nowhere near my Wales XXIII.

Sure he is a nice show pony, he rumbles into contact bashing people over.... very good. But he just doesn't do his job for Wales.

You want your Scrum Half to play heads up rugby, ditributing the ball to Wales' electrifying backs not looking to charge into contact at every given oppertunity.

I honestly think that Wales would be best served by getting rid of Phillips and getting someone like Rees who can get the ball to Biggar and give him some choices. Someone said last week that this is "all that Rees can do". Who cares, provided he does it well and gives what is currently a misfiring backline some ammunition again.

It's quite remarkable that so many people think that Philips is amazing and a Lions certainty. England have at least four scrum halfs with superior overall skillsets, Ireland have one in Murray that's twice as fast over 10 yards and can pass out of either hand which Philips cannot and Scotland has one (for all his failings) who can kick goals, do a serviceable shift at fly half and genuinely vary play.

It's not inconsistent to agree with Bedford that he's fine at what he does and is the best Wales has whilst simultaneously saying with complete confidence he should be nowhere near a Lions shirt.

When Williams was announced in the squad most to a man were dumb founded by his inclusion now after two halves hes everyones first choice.

I have always said that you need contrastin No9s a bit of a basher and a passer, we have that in Phillips and Williams.

On the back of 8 losses we were never going to throw the ball around from the off it was alwats going to be a bit of an arm wrestle and Williams would have got mullered he hed tried to play that way.

Based on the first two rounds:

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Cole 4.Launchbury 5.Gray 6.Wood 7.Robshaw 8.Falateu 9.Youngs 10.Farrell 11.North 12.Twelvetrees 13.BOD 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

16.Marler 17.Youngs 18.Ross 19.Evans 20.SOB 21.Laidlaw 22.Sexton 23.Halfpenny

Pretty much reflecting who is playing well and who is not. Things will obviously change, and you'd expect the Welsh players to come to the fore in the next couple of rounds playing Italy and Scotland, should give Roberts and JD2 a bit more of a chance to stretch their legs.

Based on round 2.

1. Healy
2. Best
3. Cole
4. Parling
5. Evans
6. Jones
7. Robshaw
8. Beattie
9. Youngs
10. Farrell
11. North
12. Barritt
13. BOD
14. Halfpenny
15. Hogg

I think if it's JUST based on round 2 then you can't really pick Barritt at 12, as he played 13, not sure you can pick Halfpenny on the wing, as he played 15, and I don't see what BOD did yesterday to get picked at 13 (I picked him there mainly based on his performance in round 1).

The players who started at 13 in round 2 were Barritt, Lamont, JD2 and BOD. Of that four I'd say it's between Barritt and Lamont.

True, FES, but Wood started at 8, so it's not always easy. I think it's fair enough to pick the players where they will prove best suited to play in Australia.

Barritt moved to 12 when Tuilagi came on in Twelvetrees place.

Halfpenny can play 14/15 equally well.

If we are basing on round 2, I'm sure we're allowed our selection methods and reasonings and not stuck just to the single positions players start the game in.

Fair enough - I just think that if you're going through the exercise of who you'd pick based on a round of games, then picking someone out of position based on those games makes little sense.

At least we don't have multiple posters selecting Dan Lydiate, which we had on the "Based on round 1" thread!

haha i know! I wasnt trying to be awkward, but I've seen Jones selected at 8 earlier in the thread and Barritt moved to 12 (he usually trots out there in my defence) and Halfpennys always been a 14/15.

that and I refuse to leave out Halfpenny in favour of a blwydi scotsman

dragonbreath wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:didnt adam jones get pasted in the scrum last night?

And Healy gave Cole a tuning today

First off he probably came off about level at scrum time but Cole completely dominated him in the loose despite the attempted ankle break that must have been very sore.

I thought Healy and Cole pretty much cancelled each other out which from a Lions POV is great news and both on top form.

1.Healy
2.Best
3.Cole
4.Ryan
5.Launchbury
6.Robshaw
7.Tuperic
8.O'brien
9.Youngs
10.Sexton (its not going to be raining in Aus)
11.Maitland (no stand outs)
12.Tuilagi
13.BOD
14.Halfpenny
15.Hogg

Of the injured Im guessing Ferris will start if he's fit and Bowe would slot in at wing. Lydiate, Alun Wyn, also have chances.

Injured Players IMO should not be considered at the moment. It's tough but fair.

Most of all Lydiate, he hasn't played rugby for nearly a year.

1) Healy
2) Hartley
3) Cole
4) Launchbury
5) Ryan
6) O'Brien
7) Robshaw (c)
8) Haskell
9) Youngs
10) Farrell
11) North
12) Barritt
13) Tuilagi
14) Visser
15) Halfpenny

16) Best 17) Marler 18) Ross 19) Gray 20) R. Jones 21) Murray 22) Sexton 23) Hogg

A World Cup and 3 Finals wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:

Imperialbigdave wrote:didnt adam jones get pasted in the scrum last night?

And Healy gave Cole a tuning today

First off he probably came off about level at scrum time but Cole completely dominated him in the loose despite the attempted ankle break that must have been very sore.

Scrum refereeing was appalling in Ire v Eng game. Ireland TH binding on arm of Eng LH throughout game, right infront of ref. No doubt opposite happening on t'other side. Crooked put-ins. Farce.

I felt the Cole vs Healy contest was fairly even. Healy very very lucky not to get carded though, which may have swung things slightly in Cole's favour.

We're very lucky from a Lions perspective that we have two strong scrummaging props on either side who are fantastic in the loose. That'll be a massive asset in Australia.

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. PDJ
4. Kohns
5. Botha
6. Lydiate
7. Tipuric
8. Warburton
9. Phillips
10. ROG
11. Zebo
12. 12T
13. JJ
14. Wade
15. Foden

16. Healy (gotta big boot on him)
17. T Youngs (throws like a girl)
18. Court (scrummages like a girl)
19. Lawes (if he can’t tackle Cooper he’ll headbutt him into submission)
20. Croft (cover for centre)
21. Laidlaw (gotta have a scot after their demolition of Italy (who are better than France don’t you know))
22. Biggar (just the name will scare them)
23. Brown (wot’s brown and sticky?)

That’s the way to do it.

Are you Sir Clive Woodward?

funnyExiledScot wrote:Are you Sir Clive Woodward?

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Are you Sir Clive Woodward?

No. He hasn't picked Jonny. Or Neil Back.

I'm not, but I do model myself on him. Especially around the lips. What gave it away?

Edinburgh could do much worse than picking Neil Back at the moment.

based on the first 2 rounds

1.Cian Healy
2.Rory Best
3.A.Jones
4.Ryan
5.Richie Gray
6.Sean O'Brien
7.Alistair Stroksoch (obviously based on round 1)
8.Toby Falteau
9.Ben Youngs
10.Dan Biggar
11.Mike Brown
12.Manu Tuilagi
13.Jamie Roberts
14.Chris Ashton
15.Rob Kearney

16.Tom Youngs
17.Gethin Jenkins
18.Joe Launchbury
19.Kelly Brown
20.Euan Murray
21.Jonny Sexton
22.Owen Farrell
23.Tim Visser

Which of Strokosch's 20 minutes on the pitch impressed you most?

(He's not your worst selection, incidentally).

Shame about zebo yesterday. Thought he would be a deffo Lions selection.

Johnny Sexton?..Again another Lions 10 that could miss out all together.

Healy? Healey as been cited for stamping of Coles ankle. Will he be banned from playing on the Lions? YES/NO Personaly i would not take him.

Looks like Zebos out for the tournament and then some with a broken bone in his foot. Can't help thinking that a lot of the absentees, given at least some game time before they leave for Australia will still be on the plane - I'm thinking specifically about Ferris, O'Connell and Bowe - possibly Foden and AWJ at the least.

Don't sound like Sexton is too bad - him and Farrell 99% certain to be the tour number 10s, Healy despite yesterdays stupidity is by some distance the best loosehead IMO. Concerns were his scrummaging - didn't look like Cole or Adam Jones got too much out of him so far and his work around the pitch in terms of tackling, turn overs and carrying is something any back row forward would be proud of.

Based on my interpretation of the first 2 rounds (and not moving players around so they can fit in e.g Halfpenny to wing):

15. Hogg
14. Maitland
13. O'Driscoll
12. Barritt
11. Visser
10. Farrell
9. Youngs

1. Marler
2. Best
3. Cole
4. Ryan
5. Parling
6. Wood
7. Robshaw
8. Beattie

16. Youngs
17. Grant
18. Jones
19. Launchbury
20. Tipuric
21. Murray
22. Biggar
23. Halfpenny

I have left out players such as Healy (for his citation) as well as Sexton & Zebo for their current injuries. In my opinion Wales have not been playing well enough to warrant many selections seeing as this is only based on 2 weekends' worth of games. England & Scotland have both played well (also Ireland in the first half of week 1, and they battled well, citations aside yesterday), and I have based my selections solely on these factors.