Disband dragons for the good of regional rugby?

I think it makes sense now.

The Dragons are doing nobody any favours. North Wales should be in the Pro 12 as a development region with 3 franchises down south.

Good players like Faletau, Lydiate and Coombs should be used to bolster the Blues and Scarlets poor packs (unless they move to France of course).

t1000advancedprototype wrote:I think it makes sense now.

The Dragons are doing nobody any favours. North Wales should be in the Pro 12 as a development region with 3 franchises down south.

Good players like Faletau, Lydiate and Coombs should be used to bolster the Blues and Scarlets poor packs (unless they move to France of course).

The new north region would need players too.

Profitus

No the North would be full of northern talent, and would enter any competition at a higher standard of the Dragons...

Stupid idea, Dragons are a way off that yet,
If they don't change something thou with in a few seasons it may well be the end.

I think Dragons are there for the taking, someone who knew what they were doing could come in and turn them around within two seasons.

viewtothegym wrote:Stupid idea, Dragons are a way off that yet,
If they don't change something thou with in a few seasons it may well be the end.

I think Dragons are there for the taking, someone who knew what they were doing could come in and turn them around within two seasons.

Why would anyone want to? The WRU needs to control them.

I think the Dragons ought to be independent and sustain themselves.

I don't think it's right that an union has the power to disband a region. If the Dragons fall, I think they should crumble from their own mistakes, not from an union who desire to pull a plug on them.

I feel the union is much too big. I feel the union is playing the role of God threatening to change the structure of our regions. Let the regions decide their own destiny, give them complete freedom and independence and stop the concentration of power that is happening in Welsh rugby.

Im a Scarlets fan but if i was a multi millionaire i would snap up the Dragons in a heart beat.
Loyal fan base core already in place to build a good squad and desperate for an identity beyond the whipping boys.

view

I actually agree there, buying out the WRU would be pretty reasonable (if they'd allow that) then investment in the squad from the new owner would be agreeable by all (as Matthews and co wouldn't want to do that themselves but wouldnt object to someone else doing so)

With some success and the infrastructure they have things could be turned pretty easily, maybe striking a deal with Newport county's old ground as training digs (shared obviously) and convert that to state of the art gym/headquarters etc...

100m and you have yourself a euro competitive club IMHO, just don't expect to see much of that back, especially short term.

You need one of these rich people who want it as there baby not giving a crap if big profits came back.
Sadly rugby doesn't seem to have multi millionaires with in it's fan base.

what's the obsession on here with North Wales? It's a rugby wasteland & will never sustain a pro team,football area always has been always will be

Have you seen the attendance figures for Eirias Park? makes the regional rugby support look poor down south.
Then we look at players who have come through the North.

Football isn't that big up here, just Liverpool and United fans, a lot like the current Welsh internationals who travel and support football teams as and when they can, just check out social networks and you will see.

" football isn't that big up here" - you're kidding right?

dragon999 wrote:what's the obsession on here with North Wales? It's a rugby wasteland & will never sustain a pro team,football area always has been always will be

I work in Newport and what you said sums up Newport in my opinion, especially among the youth of the city.

viewtothegym wrote:Have you seen the attendance figures for Eirias Park? makes the regional rugby support look poor down south.
Then we look at players who have come through the North.

In the same way that say, Team Wales matches down south out-sell regional matches? Pretty vapid point there. Well, two actually, being as I can think of probably twice as many English-born players who have excelled for Wales over the years than gogs. But we won't go into that because the first point was burned so thoroughly.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:I think it makes sense now.

The Dragons are doing nobody any favours. North Wales should be in the Pro 12 as a development region with 3 franchises down south.

Good players like Faletau, Lydiate and Coombs should be used to bolster the Blues and Scarlets poor packs (unless they move to France of course).

Ffecin hell boss, Lady Gaga has got better ideas about how to fix regional rugby than you do

Stone Motif wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Have you seen the attendance figures for Eirias Park? makes the regional rugby support look poor down south.
Then we look at players who have come through the North.

In the same way that say, Team Wales matches down south out-sell regional matches? Pretty vapid point there. Well, two actually, being as I can think of probably twice as many English-born players who have excelled for Wales over the years than gogs. But we won't go into that because the first point was burned so thoroughly.

Canada v Samoa is not team wales.

JayMaster3000 wrote:

dragon999 wrote:what's the obsession on here with North Wales? It's a rugby wasteland & will never sustain a pro team,football area always has been always will be

I work in Newport and what you said sums up Newport in my opinion, especially among the youth of the city.

Yeah right. That's why more people turn up to watch Europe's worst pro team play rugby than do to watch the County play football. Absurd statement.

JayMaster3000 wrote:

dragon999 wrote:what's the obsession on here with North Wales? It's a rugby wasteland & will never sustain a pro team,football area always has been always will be

I work in Newport and what you said sums up Newport in my opinion, especially among the youth of the city.

You know all the youth of Newport do you? - You're entitled to your opinion but glib crap like that does you no favours

viewtothegym wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Have you seen the attendance figures for Eirias Park? makes the regional rugby support look poor down south.
Then we look at players who have come through the North.

In the same way that say, Team Wales matches down south out-sell regional matches? Pretty vapid point there. Well, two actually, being as I can think of probably twice as many English-born players who have excelled for Wales over the years than gogs. But we won't go into that because the first point was burned so thoroughly.

Canada v Samoa is not team wales.

Nor is it a valid basis to assume there is any demand for league rugby in the area, particularly as there aren't three tiers of competition in the same sport alone playing consecutively.

viewtothegym wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Have you seen the attendance figures for Eirias Park? makes the regional rugby support look poor down south.
Then we look at players who have come through the North.

In the same way that say, Team Wales matches down south out-sell regional matches? Pretty vapid point there. Well, two actually, being as I can think of probably twice as many English-born players who have excelled for Wales over the years than gogs. But we won't go into that because the first point was burned so thoroughly.

Canada v Samoa is not team wales.

Nor is it a valid basis to assume there is any demand for league rugby in the area, particularly as there aren't three tiers of competition in the same sport alone playing consecutively.

Stone Motif wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Have you seen the attendance figures for Eirias Park? makes the regional rugby support look poor down south.
Then we look at players who have come through the North.

In the same way that say, Team Wales matches down south out-sell regional matches? Pretty vapid point there. Well, two actually, being as I can think of probably twice as many English-born players who have excelled for Wales over the years than gogs. But we won't go into that because the first point was burned so thoroughly.

Canada v Samoa is not team wales.

Nor is it a valid basis to assume there is any demand for league rugby in the area, particularly as there aren't three tiers of competition in the same sport alone playing consecutively.

Do you live in North Wales? have you been to a game in North Wales?

Stone Motif wrote:

JayMaster3000 wrote:

dragon999 wrote:what's the obsession on here with North Wales? It's a rugby wasteland & will never sustain a pro team,football area always has been always will be

I work in Newport and what you said sums up Newport in my opinion, especially among the youth of the city.

Yeah right. That's why more people turn up to watch Europe's worst pro team play rugby than do to watch the County play football. Absurd statement.

dragon999 wrote:

JayMaster3000 wrote:

dragon999 wrote:what's the obsession on here with North Wales? It's a rugby wasteland & will never sustain a pro team,football area always has been always will be

I work in Newport and what you said sums up Newport in my opinion, especially among the youth of the city.

You know all the youth of Newport do you? - You're entitled to your opinion but glib crap like that does you no favours

Do I know all the youth obviously not, let's not be silly about this, and the other one, you are jumping to conclusions that all young people must support County if they don't support the Dragons, again let's not be silly or naive.

What I base my simple subjective opinion on is that I work in one of the largest schools in inner Newport, Lliswerry - As we all know, this is a very large school. The vast majority (I would say 95%) of this school love football, not County but Man U, City and the likes. They talk religiously about football and a lot of them were unaware that the 6 Nations was starting a few weeks ago. In fact rugby is so unpopular in the school they have not got a team, in any year. The one time I had a training session for year 7 five kids showed up. So like I said it appears to me, especially that I live close to the Valleys, that Newport is a rugby wasteland and based on the evidence of rugby in Newport it is far from a "absurd statement".

Now like it or not, this is my opinion which I feel is validated by my working environment and experience. Unless you gentlemen can offer some form of counter argument that can be validated then I stand by original statement.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:I think it makes sense now.

The Dragons are doing nobody any favours. North Wales should be in the Pro 12 as a development region with 3 franchises down south.

Good players like Faletau, Lydiate and Coombs should be used to bolster the Blues and Scarlets poor packs (unless they move to France of course).

Why would the Blues or Scarlets want to sign more welsh international backrowers? The Scarlets first choice backrow are all capped, and the Blues first choice backrow are all in the current six nations squad. But hey don't let things like that get in the way of a cheap wum, and trying to kick a team when their down.

JayMaster3000 wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

JayMaster3000 wrote:

dragon999 wrote:what's the obsession on here with North Wales? It's a rugby wasteland & will never sustain a pro team,football area always has been always will be

I work in Newport and what you said sums up Newport in my opinion, especially among the youth of the city.

Yeah right. That's why more people turn up to watch Europe's worst pro team play rugby than do to watch the County play football. Absurd statement.

dragon999 wrote:

JayMaster3000 wrote:

dragon999 wrote:what's the obsession on here with North Wales? It's a rugby wasteland & will never sustain a pro team,football area always has been always will be

I work in Newport and what you said sums up Newport in my opinion, especially among the youth of the city.

You know all the youth of Newport do you? - You're entitled to your opinion but glib crap like that does you no favours

Do I know all the youth obviously not, let's not be silly about this, and the other one, you are jumping to conclusions that all young people must support County if they don't support the Dragons, again let's not be silly or naive.

What I base my simple subjective opinion on is that I work in one of the largest schools in inner Newport, Lliswerry - As we all know, this is a very large school. The vast majority (I would say 95%) of this school love football, not County but Man U, City and the likes. They talk religiously about football and a lot of them were unaware that the 6 Nations was starting a few weeks ago. In fact rugby is so unpopular in the school they have not got a team, in any year. The one time I had a training session for year 7 five kids showed up. So like I said it appears to me, especially that I live close to the Valleys, that Newport is a rugby wasteland and based on the evidence of rugby in Newport it is far from a "absurd statement".

Now like it or not, this is my opinion which I feel is validated by my working environment and experience. Unless you gentlemen can offer some form of counter argument that can be validated then I stand by original statement.

Full house for my nephew's under 9's training this morning in 'inner Newport', many of whom showed up in their Dragons jerseys heart breakingly enough. Half of them spent the afternoon playing touch in the garden an all. How's them apples mr 'rugby wasteland'?

viewtothegym wrote:Im a Scarlets fan but if i was a multi millionaire i would snap up the Dragons in a heart beat.
Loyal fan base core already in place to build a good squad and desperate for an identity beyond the whipping boys.

If the talk of the ryder cup bloke wanting to splash cash there is true, threads like this will have to be aimed at the Blues and Cardiff next season.

The Dragons school work is extremely popular & well attended,perhaps lliswerry is not indicative of all youngsters in the region

Stone Motif wrote:Full house for my nephew's under 9's training this morning in 'inner Newport', many of whom showed up in their Dragons jerseys heart breakingly enough. Half of them spent the afternoon playing touch in the garden an all. How's them apples mr 'rugby wasteland'?

Not really sure how to respond to this? I've given you an example of a school with over a thousand pupils and you have counter argued that with under 9 training. How many attended? And perhaps you have not followed the flow of the discussion - the rugby wasteland is not my quote, but the original statement that prompted me to join this discussion, it was a reference to North Wales being a rugby wasteland which I responded, due to my experience, that Newport is a rugby wasteland.

dragon999 wrote:The Dragons school work is extremely popular & well attended,perhaps lliswerry is not indicative of all youngsters in the region

The school did contact the Dragons about them coming up and they were excellent, offering coaching, player visits and giving forty tickets to the Dragons Vs Ulster game. Unfortunately only the last one happened due to no interest in the game, even then the tickets were attempted to be sold on and even offered to me for free by some pupils. I wish Newport was more rugby mad but I just don't see it. And though Lliswerry may not be indicative to all of Newport and I have seen no evidence that suggests other wise.

JayMaster3000 wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:Full house for my nephew's under 9's training this morning in 'inner Newport', many of whom showed up in their Dragons jerseys heart breakingly enough. Half of them spent the afternoon playing touch in the garden an all. How's them apples mr 'rugby wasteland'?

Not really sure how to respond to this? I've given you an example of a school with over a thousand pupils and you have counter argued that with under 9 training. How many attended? And perhaps you have not followed the flow of the discussion - the rugby wasteland is not my quote, but the original statement that prompted me to join this discussion, it was a reference to North Wales being a rugby wasteland which I responded, due to my experience, that Newport is a rugby wasteland.

dragon999 wrote:The Dragons school work is extremely popular & well attended,perhaps lliswerry is not indicative of all youngsters in the region

The school did contact the Dragons about them coming up and they were excellent, offering coaching, player visits and giving forty tickets to the Dragons Vs Ulster game. Unfortunately only the last one happened due to no interest in the game, even then the tickets were attempted to be sold on and even offered to me for free by some pupils. I wish Newport was more rugby mad but I just don't see it. And though Lliswerry may not be indicative to all of Newport and I have seen no evidence that suggests other wise.

yes Whiteheads, Pill Harriers, HSOB, Bettws, Caerleon...all these rugby clubs within one relatively small city must be figments of my imagination then. Honestly, it's no wonder the kids in your school don't know what time of day it is.

hiya jase mate,

yes to put things in context for you, you were/are working at the school in newport with the least amount of interest in rugby,

however in school terms it is not indicative of all newport schools, caerleon and bassaleg are very big rugby schools, e.g ash smith of the dragons went to caerleon and you will find a couple of semi pro players went to bassaleg...ryan jones went their too

but i think overall football does pose a big threat to rugby overall in wales not just newport

Jay - regarding your school, don't the pupils do some rugby as part of PE at least ?
If they are not doing that and have no interest in doing rugby as an after school activity it doesn't bode well for Wales given in other places it's a growing sport - is this reflective of schools/youth rugby in other parts of Wales?

[quote="Guest"]Have you seen the attendance figures for Eirias Park? makes the regional rugby support look poor down south.
Then we look at players who have come through the North.

Football isn't that big up here, just Liverpool and United fans, a lot like the current Welsh internationals who travel and support football teams as and when they can, just check out social networks and you will see.[/quote]

_______________________________________

Footy is massive in North Wales

Rugby sadly is a very poor relative

Absolutely insane idea, imo - Dreigiau probably the best region in my book

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Absolutely insane idea, imo - Dreigiau probably the best region in my book

Well they have been the worst for a long time but are improving, far from the best though.

Welsh Magician wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Absolutely insane idea, imo - Dreigiau probably the best region in my book

Well they have been the worst for a long time but are improving, far from the best though.

Magician, apologies I should have clarified 'best' - I very much meant in general terms based on my experience as a visiting fan, etc.

I'd strike a note of caution here.

Scotland scrapped the Borders on similar grounds and fans and the media have been banging the drum for a 3rd region ever since. Whilst not a financially sound venture, the Borders contributed a pretty decent number of internationals: Douglas, Ford, MacLeod, Brown, Cusiter, De Luca and Walker.

I realise Welsh rugby is a different snake pit, with its own unique obstacles, but the Dragons have contributed some pretty key players in recent times: Charteris, Lydiate, Falatau and Owen.

Good bless you Bruce Douglas and thank you Borders.

Same it you As. Us supporters are great

If this topic was headed the Cardiff Blues instead of the Dragons, on this seasons record and especially the totally inept display last night, it might be warranted, even then, none of the regions deserve disbanding they need and deserve more support from supporters and the governing body, because if the rumours coming out of the Participation Agreement negotiations are true, things are really looking up for them.

To be fair, the Blues were a shower last year, but it was just we were worse. With Dragons and Blues strengthening, they'll get better and obviously the other two are doing some strengthening too. Ospreys have made some good signings in Parry and Evans (particularly the latter) too.

I have not been a fan of the Dragons as they have done the least for the Welsh team and in general been crap as a region but finally under the new coaches I predict the Dragons will start to challenge the Ospreys next year by default overtake the other two regions.

I am not sure there will be many players for team Wales via the Dragons but that will come in time. Wales must have at least 4 teams or we will end up like Scotland with a small pool of players to develop.

The rate of the players leaving the Ospreys for more money will weaken their team, they will be vulnerable next year to qualify for the HC as they will have a young team. Ospreys will lose Hibbard, Evans and R Jones and A Jones have not committed to next year.

glamorganalun wrote:I have not been a fan of the Dragons as they have done the least for the Welsh team and in general been crap as a region but finally under the new coaches I predict the Dragons will start to challenge the Ospreys next year by default overtake the other two regions.

I am not sure there will be many players for team Wales via the Dragons but that will come in time. Wales must have at least 4 teams or we will end up like Scotland with a small pool of players to develop.

The rate of the players leaving the Ospreys for more money will weaken their team, they will be vulnerable next year to qualify for the HC as they will have a young team. Ospreys will lose Hibbard, Evans and R Jones and A Jones have not committed to next year.

Can you please elaborate on your last sentence?

The whole post is guff. Doing the least for the Welsh team? Maybe if Gatland realised there was talent to work with east of Cardiff, there might be more in the squad for a start. Look what happens when he gives players like Burns, Coombs and others a chance. They step up.

We also can't do more for bringing on Welsh players than having our first team being predominately Welsh and having a load of players in the U20s etc.

Bad idea, in truth the Dragons have heavily recruited for next season, and good players as well.  Brew will be rejoining and Lee Bryne will join as well.
Adam Jones has also publicly stated he'd like to go there.

Their new training facilities are well under way, they should of been ready for the start of this month, but will be ready next season now due to delays.

They built a new stand last season, and have reduced stadium costs by sharing with Newport FC.

They also have nearly 3 times more junior clubs than the North Wales team and far more youth and junior teams. They are also making a heavy contribution to the squads of Wales U18 and U20 this season so their youth set up is clearly on track.

When the North Wales team can win the Premiership regularly then we can talk about letting them step up to pro rugby, at the moment their 25 points behind leaders Ebbw Vale in the second division. Their a long way off being ready for regional rugby based on their own developed talent. Still the progress they have made is amazing.

This time next season we might well be talking about shutting down the Ospreys because their so poor.  Ian Evans, Richard Hibbard, Matthew Morgan, Joe Rees and Ryan Jones are already leaving, with more rumored to be on the way out.   

I think North Wales needs a few more years but atleast the WRU are building it. Dargon are much improved compared to last year and their squad is getting stronger not weak like in years past.

to wind them up would be stupid. They are as strong as blues and scarlets

Shifty wrote:Bad idea, in truth the Dragons have heavily recruited for next season, and good players as well.  Brew will be rejoining and Lee Bryne will join as well.
Adam Jones has also publicly stated he'd like to go there.

Their new training facilities are well under way, they should of been ready for the start of this month, but will be ready next season now due to delays.

They built a new stand last season, and have reduced stadium costs by sharing with Newport FC.

They also have nearly 3 times more junior clubs than the North Wales team and far more youth and junior teams.  They are also making a heavy contribution to the squads of Wales U18 and U20 this season so their youth set up is clearly on track.

When the North Wales team can win the Premiership regularly then we can talk about letting them step up to pro rugby, at the moment their 25 points behind leaders Ebbw Vale in the second division.  Their a long way off being ready for regional rugby based on their own developed talent.  Still the progress they have made is amazing.  

This time next season we might well be talking about shutting down the Ospreys because their so poor.  Ian Evans, Richard Hibbard, Matthew Morgan, Joe Rees and Ryan Jones are already leaving, with more rumored to be on the way out.   

No he hasn't?

Risca Rev wrote:The whole post is guff. Doing the least for the Welsh team? Maybe if Gatland realised there was talent to work with east of Cardiff, there might be more in the squad for a start. Look what happens when he gives players like Burns, Coombs and others a chance. They step up.

We also can't do more for bringing on Welsh players than having our first team being predominately Welsh and having a load of players in the U20s etc.

Agreed, we have regularly fielded all Welsh squads - who the selectors actually pick is well beyond our control, there are clearly 'pet' players who will always be selected due to 'jobs for the boyos'

It's a fallacy to think that you will get 3 better quality teams from losing a region. It didn't happen when they got rid of the Celtic Warriors, except maybe to a very limited extent in the short term. The opportunities for players to develop becomes correspondingly limited. The fan base will diminish (rugby isn't a 'product' like cinema so that someone from Newport will shrug their shoulders and go to support a successful Scarlets team instead or something), which also diminishes the playing pool in the long-term and the money coming into the game.

The only reason for getting rid of a region is if it is literally not financially viable any more to sustain it.

Exactly, and if anything, the Dragons have tried to spend and build within their means.