Ireland Squad for Murrayfield- Kidneys Toughest Moments?

29 man squad for the visit to Scotland.

Ireland Squad - Backs: Rob Kearney (Leinster), Robbie Henshaw (Connacht), Fergus McFadden (Leinster), Craig Gilroy (Ulster), Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster), Keith Earls (Munster), Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster), Darren Cave (Ulster), Luke Marshall (Ulster), Ronan O'Gara (Munster), Paddy Jackson (Ulster), Conor Murray (Munster), Eoin Reddan (Leinster)

Forwards: Rory Best (Ulster), Seán Cronin (Leinster), Tom Court (Ulster), David Kilcoyne (Munster), Mike Ross (Leinster), Declan Fitzpatrick (Ulster), Donnacha Ryan (Munster), Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster), Lewis Stevenson (Ulster), Devin Toner (Leinster), Peter O'Mahony (Munster), James Coughlan (Munster), Iain Henderson (Ulster), Seán O'Brien (Leinster), Chris Henry (Ulster), Jamie Heaslip (Leinster).

Some weeks are from hell.

For Declan Kidney, when he's done, he might just look back on this week as one of the toughest he's faced since taking over the Ireland job. The discussion, analysis and bickering will take place below but I want to frame it by saying I do not envy him one bit. Indeed, I feel sorry for him when I think of the calls he must make. Let us hope necessity is the mother of invention- and that the character of the 15 men on the pitch is enough to carry us over the line.

Ireland Abú. G'wan Ireland.

I look at those names and think "there could be a damn good team from that lot"


Problem is can Kidney find it?

15 Kearney
14 Gilroy
13 BOD
12 Earls
11 McFadden
10 ROG
9 Murray
8 Heaslip(c)
7 SOB
6 POM
5 Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Kilcoyne

Bench: Court, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Henderson, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Fitzgerald

Thank you and good night.

rodders wrote:15 Kearney
14 Gilroy
13 BOD
12 Earls
11 McFadden
10 ROG
9 Murray
8 Heaslip(c)
7 SOB
6 POM
5 Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Kilcoyne

Bench: Court, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Henderson, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Fitzgerald

Thank you and good night.

I would say there is the slight possibility that Fitz may sneak in ahead of McFadden, but that is the only possible change. Depressing.

rodders wrote:15 Kearney
14 Gilroy
13 BOD
12 Earls
11 McFadden
10 ROG
9 Murray
8 Heaslip(c)
7 SOB
6 POM
5 Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Kilcoyne

Bench: Court, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Henderson, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Fitzgerald

Thank you and good night.

I'm assuming that's Kidney's team and not yours? I actually have a bet on with a mate that this will be the team, so in that sense I hope you're right.

Kidders team Notch....I thought Earls would give it away .....

There is actually quite a decent team in there if Kidney wants to pick it.

Kearney
Earls Gilroy
Bod Marshall
Jackson Murray
Heaslip SOB POM
Henderson Ryan
Court Best Ross


Not too fussed on which of Court/Kilcoyne starts, but I think the absence of Rog makes that team much more likely to win than the one that will be selected.

valjester wrote:

rodders wrote:15 Kearney
14 Gilroy
13 BOD
12 Earls
11 McFadden
10 ROG
9 Murray
8 Heaslip(c)
7 SOB
6 POM
5 Ryan
4 DOC
3 Ross
2 Best
1 Kilcoyne

Bench: Court, Cronin, Fitzpatrick, Henderson, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Fitzgerald

Thank you and good night.

I would say there is the slight possibility that Fitz may sneak in ahead of McFadden, but that is the only possible change. Depressing.

If he was going to start fitz on the wing, he would of been playing there for Leinster against Treviso, instead he made us play him at 15. He must see him as the backup 15 now that Zebo is injured.

I've been thinking this is the game for McFadden, especially if Jackson starts. McFadden will definitely be in the squad as we need the security of having another recognised placekicker.

The biggest mistake Kidney has made here is not selecting Madigan.. he is by far the most obvious choice to have started this game. At the very least he would have been a more sensible option than Jackson I would say. He has more experience, and is the better player currently without a doubt.

Why is Madigan being ignored so badly? Apparently he had a great game the other night too.

Also, I am not even going to mention ROG again in this thread. I know he is going to be selected, and I know we have no reason to feel any better about it either as he had another shocking game for Munster the other night. There is honestly no sensible reason to select him anymore, and anyone could see that who isn't a sentimental, one-eyed Munster fanboy.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Also, I am not even going to mention ROG again in this thread. I know he is going to be selected, and I know we have no reason to feel any better about it either as he had another shocking game for Munster the other night. There is honestly no sensible reason to select him anymore, and anyone could see that who isn't a sentimental, one-eyed Munster fanboy.

Maybe, Kidney is hoping to get fired. Seriously I would expect Earls and O'Driscoll to be used at first receiver, Murray has tended to bypass Rog a lot this season for Munster and he will probably do so again on Sunday. I am not looking forward to this match, have to be up at half four to watch what will more than likely be an Irish horror show.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Also, I am not even going to mention ROG again in this thread. I know he is going to be selected, and I know we have no reason to feel any better about it either as he had another shocking game for Munster the other night. There is honestly no sensible reason to select him anymore, and anyone could see that who isn't a sentimental, one-eyed Munster fanboy.

I see what you did there, but you do know that Sine and DOD are on their way....

Does Marshall been in the squad mean that hell be fit?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The biggest mistake Kidney has made here is not selecting Madigan.. he is by far the most obvious choice to have started this game. At the very least he would have been a more sensible option than Jackson I would say. He has more experience, and is the better player currently without a doubt.

Why is Madigan being ignored so badly? Apparently he had a great game the other night too.

Unlike Jackson he's also match fit, but that doesn't seem to unduly bother Kidney.

Surely POM should be dropped over Henry... only seen the guy in a few HC matches but he looks the business. POM was awful against ENG.... complete headless chicken at times.

SOB can play 6 easy.

We (Scotland) have to go into the match thinking we have a decent chance.. we're at home and the injuries/bans IRE have are pretty spectacular.... Healy, O'Connell, Ferris, Sexton, Zebo, D'arcy... if not now then when???

Still have big time players like BOD and Ryan (beginning to get seriously impressed with this guy) though so it won't be easy.

fa-

Henry is an injury doubt apparently after coming off with a knee problem against Zebre. One reason to include O'Mahony is the strength of the Scottish lineout and the options he offers at the tail. I don't think Henry will be picked. Ryan and BOD also are carrying knocks but look set to be ok.

This might be the game for Iain Henderson to slot in at blindside actually... he's basically a baby lock who is quick and strong and physical. So, well able in the lineout. Hasn't even stopped growing yet, but at the age of 20 he's been more than able to mix it against the more physical packs Ulster have faced.

fa0019 wrote:Surely POM should be dropped over Henry... only seen the guy in a few HC matches but he looks the business. POM was awful against ENG.... complete headless chicken at times.

SOB can play 6 easy.

I have been saying this all along re POM. I would pick henry first. POM is getting better though apart from the England game.

Notch wrote:This might be the game for Iain Henderson to slot in at blindside actually... he's basically a baby lock who is quick and strong and physical. So, well able in the lineout. Hasn't even stopped growing yet, but at the age of 20 he's been more than able to mix it against the more physical packs Ulster have faced.

Hyperbole time. Ian Henderson is the most naturally physical Irish player I've ever seen including Ferris, Healy, SOB, Neil Best, Leamy. Every team he comes up against he just manhandles the opposition in almost casual fashion. Brad Thorn did well to get out of the country when he did .

6 or 4, doesn't matter this guy is the real deal. FACT.

rodders wrote:

Notch wrote:This might be the game for Iain Henderson to slot in at blindside actually... he's basically a baby lock who is quick and strong and physical. So, well able in the lineout. Hasn't even stopped growing yet, but at the age of 20 he's been more than able to mix it against the more physical packs Ulster have faced.

Hyperbole time. Ian Henderson is the most naturally physical Irish player I've ever seen including Ferris, Healy, SOB, Neil Best, Leamy. Every team he comes up against he just manhandles the opposition in almost casual fashion. Brad Thorn did well to get out of the country when he did .

6 or 4, doesn't matter this guy is the real deal. FACT.

Thats definitely hyperbole. I have watched him a few times and he seems well able to handle the physical side of the professional game but wouldnt say he towered above everyone else ala Ferris in terms of strength.

I'd be cautious with this guy. I remember all the plaudits being lavished on Rhys Ruddock for his strength and mobility and Fitzgerald for his skill and panache, yet neither player has lived up to the hype at all.

You never know he may just peak at a Gary Longwell/Mick O'Driscoll sort of level of International mediocracy. Time will tell.

i have huge fears for the team kidney is going to select. I would not be one bit surprised if the Scots beat us. Primarily as ROG would appear to be starting. It was actually sad watching him v The Scarlets on Friday night.

Peter OMahony has been one of our better players so far. He has done absolutely nothing to be dropped. Heaslip badly needs a good performance on Sunday. The decline in his ball carrying abilities over the last 3 years is worrying. A mate was saying he is a stone and a half lighter than he was which may explain it. He is a decent defensive number 8 who had a shocker v England.

Henderson is the same age as Etzebeth and Launchbury. Cannot really see the point of holding him back given our 2nd row injury crisis. O Callaghan will start but hopefully Henderson gets at least 30 minutes.

Another Sunday 6 nations game, deep joy. The organizers of the competition are brain dead

See Hook has been getting in on the "slate Kidney" train this morning... Tweeted about how Radge was the only option even though he's had two bad games this week, wonder which two he's mentioning, and how Kidney must have a blind spot for Madser. Also that Jackson isn't better than a busted Radge...

dublin_dave wrote:

Another Sunday 6 nations game, deep joy. The organizers of the competition are brain dead

At least it means Ewan Murray wont be playing.

Will Sexton be back for the France game?

Nope out for the rest of the 6N if I remember, although could feature in the Italy game... Grade 2 tear is probably 4-6 weeks.

ok thanks UlstermanInGlasgow!

will be interesting to see if Kidney carries on with ROG for more than one full game.

Very depressing that ROG is set to start. What is the point?

We (Scotland) have to go into the match thinking we have a decent chance.. we're at home and the injuries/bans IRE have are pretty spectacular.... Healy, O'Connell, Ferris, Sexton, Zebo, D'arcy... if not now then when???

Scotland have the same number of injuries just not recently injured but long term injuries ie

Rennie
Cusiter
Ewan Murray (it's a Sunday!)
Barclay
Strokosch
Ansbro

we are not unique in having injuries. We beat a Welsh side missing 6/7 regulars.

Ireland could still field a decent in form side on Sunday however we won't

I can see home advantage being key here. Scotland by 5.

Has any pundit / journalist backed either Jackson or Madigan to start ahead of ROG?

Tony Ward's take on it.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/tony-ward-ogara-not-the-player-he-was-but-hes-still-the-man-to-face-scotland-29075048.html

This bit is interesting:

The problem for Keatley and Madigan is that both play second fiddle to the main men (O'Gara and Sexton) at Munster and Leinster, respectively.

Lack of regular game time is a major issue for players stepping up to the Six Nations.

Jackson has pretty much established himself as the first-choice No 10 in a successful Ulster side but is still in the early days of his development.

It's not the age issue that concerns – if you're good enough you're old enough in my book; rather that Jackson may yet lack the required presence and conviction to play at Test level in such a pivotal position.

The impression is still of an out-half dependant on scrum-half Ruan Pienaar and his centres to nurse him along.

His Ulster role right now seems to be more 'link' than 'game manager' or 'decision maker'.

With experience, he should grow into a real general, but pitching a highly promising player into the cauldron that will be Murrayfield (on the back of the Italian win) is not worth the risk at this point in time for individual or team.

Sin é wrote:Has any pundit / journalist backed either Jackson or Madigan to start ahead of ROG?

Tony Ward's take on it.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/tony-ward-ogara-not-the-player-he-was-but-hes-still-the-man-to-face-scotland-29075048.html

This bit is interesting:

The problem for Keatley and Madigan is that both play second fiddle to the main men (O'Gara and Sexton) at Munster and Leinster, respectively.

Lack of regular game time is a major issue for players stepping up to the Six Nations.

Jackson has pretty much established himself as the first-choice No 10 in a successful Ulster side but is still in the early days of his development.

It's not the age issue that concerns – if you're good enough you're old enough in my book; rather that Jackson may yet lack the required presence and conviction to play at Test level in such a pivotal position.

The impression is still of an out-half dependant on scrum-half Ruan Pienaar and his centres to nurse him along.

His Ulster role right now seems to be more 'link' than 'game manager' or 'decision maker'.

With experience, he should grow into a real general, but pitching a highly promising player into the cauldron that will be Murrayfield (on the back of the Italian win) is not worth the risk at this point in time for individual or team.

I wonder how much the IRFU paid Ward to write that bollix.

Irish fans, I appreciate the injury/selection issues you face, but remember you're not going to be facing the All Blacks on Sunday.

Never underestimate Scotland's capacity to self-destruct. ROG's selection a couple of years ago wasn't hugely popular among Irish fans, but he was man of the match and kicked us out of the game. If he finds his kicking range from hand and pins us back in our 22, we'll struggle hugely.

I'm enjoying your pain, I really am, but I simply can't allow myself to treat Scotland on Sunday as anything other than underdogs.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Irish fans, I appreciate the injury/selection issues you face, but remember you're not going to be facing the All Blacks on Sunday.

Glad to hear it, one 60-nil drubbing a season is as much as I can take.

dublin_dave wrote:i have huge fears for the team kidney is going to select. I would not be one bit surprised if the Scots beat us. Primarily as ROG would appear to be starting. It was actually sad watching him v The Scarlets on Friday night.

Peter OMahony has been one of our better players so far. He has done absolutely nothing to be dropped. Heaslip badly needs a good performance on Sunday. The decline in his ball carrying abilities over the last 3 years is worrying. A mate was saying he is a stone and a half lighter than he was which may explain it. He is a decent defensive number 8 who had a shocker v England.

Henderson is the same age as Etzebeth and Launchbury. Cannot really see the point of holding him back given our 2nd row injury crisis. O Callaghan will start but hopefully Henderson gets at least 30 minutes.

Another Sunday 6 nations game, deep joy. The organizers of the competition are brain dead

Although Henderson is nearly the same age as those 2, he will actually be 21 on Thursday, he really would not look out of place in a Medallion team photo. Apart from the height of course.

I suspect he will become an awful lot stronger once he matures.

As I said on another thread, he'll be a big lad when he grows up!

I wouldn't moan about the game being on a Sunday if I were you. We're losing our best tighthead prop as a result!

I think DOC to start ahead of Henderson is the right call. Scotland will field Hamilton and Gray, and pretty tough and experienced duo. I've seen DOC a couple of times at Murrayfield for Munster this season and he really makes his experience around the rucks and mauls count. Henderson will be nicely primed as an impact sub, whereas Scotland will have to rely on Kellock.

This game, as with the others this tournament, will be won at the breakdown. That's why I think Ireland will win.

utter pish from tony ward. the cauldron that is murrayfield on the sabbath. give over tony. jackson did just fine v Edinburgh last year in Aviva and in games v Scots provinces this year.

Irish rugby journalists are some of the worst around. tony ward, gerry thornley, peter oreilly, keith wood and conor george all tow the party line and write with such breathtaking arrogance that you would think Ireland are a top side making waves in the International game when in reality we are an infuriating side underachieving with the best pool of players we have ever had.

if rog was even 80% of the player he was in his pomp he would start however he is not and he is rank out of form. Its a big risk.

dublin_dave wrote:utter pish from tony ward. the cauldron that is murrayfield on the sabbath. give over tony. jackson did just fine v Edinburgh last year in Aviva and in games v Scots provinces this year.

Irish rugby journalists are some of the worst around. tony ward, gerry thornley, peter oreilly, keith wood and conor george all tow the party line and write with such breathtaking arrogance that you would think Ireland are a top side making waves in the International game when in reality we are an infuriating side underachieving with the best pool of players we have ever had.

if rog was even 80% of the player he was in his pomp he would start however he is not and he is rank out of form. Its a big risk.

+ 10000000000

It's been a long time since Murrayfield could be described as a "cauldron".

A sweetie shop with low shelves perhaps!

dublin_dave wrote:utter pish from tony ward. the cauldron that is murrayfield on the sabbath. give over tony. jackson did just fine v Edinburgh last year in Aviva and in games v Scots provinces this year.

Irish rugby journalists are some of the worst around. tony ward, gerry thornley, peter oreilly, keith wood and conor george all tow the party line and write with such breathtaking arrogance that you would think Ireland are a top side making waves in the International game when in reality we are an infuriating side underachieving with the best pool of players we have ever had.

if rog was even 80% of the player he was in his pomp he would start however he is not and he is rank out of form. Its a big risk.

Any pundits saying either of Madigan or Jackson should start?

By the way, I think if Jackson had Wallace one side & Pienaar the other, he might be a runner. Looks like McFadden will be involved for kicking duties - though its a big ask of him now that he doesn't seem to be doing them for Leinster any more.

Just noticed that Madigan isn't listed.

Thanks Declan, you little balding, genial sprite.

Hopefully he'll be mad enough to play POM instead of Henry as well.
I'll send him a crate of Jamiesons myself if he does that.

George Carlin wrote:Just noticed that Madigan isn't listed.

Thanks Declan, you little balding, genial sprite.

Hopefully he'll be mad enough to play POM instead of Henry as well.
I'll send him a crate of Jamiesons myself if he does that.

Yea, it looks like he won't be dropping or moving SOB to facilitate an injured Henry at 7.

Leinster are fairly short on outhalfs as well. It seems Schmidt is pleased he isn't losing Madigan.

Sin é wrote:

dublin_dave wrote:utter pish from tony ward. the cauldron that is murrayfield on the sabbath. give over tony. jackson did just fine v Edinburgh last year in Aviva and in games v Scots provinces this year.

Irish rugby journalists are some of the worst around. tony ward, gerry thornley, peter oreilly, keith wood and conor george all tow the party line and write with such breathtaking arrogance that you would think Ireland are a top side making waves in the International game when in reality we are an infuriating side underachieving with the best pool of players we have ever had.

if rog was even 80% of the player he was in his pomp he would start however he is not and he is rank out of form. Its a big risk.

Any pundits saying either of Madigan or Jackson should start?

By the way, I think if Jackson had Wallace one side & Pienaar the other, he might be a runner. Looks like McFadden will be involved for kicking duties - though its a big ask of him now that he doesn't seem to be doing them for Leinster any more.

We don't need McFadden to kick anymore because Madigan has been so good. He's be kicking over 80% all season. Mcfadden took 1 place kick yesterday for Leinster when Mads went off. So he is obviously still practicing.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'm enjoying your pain, I really am, but I simply can't allow myself to treat Scotland on Sunday as anything other than underdogs.

I think that quote summaries everything I feel about Scottish rugby fans, good and bad!

We're very, very similar. Scotland and Ireland are nations with self-esteem issues. We always see ourselves as underdogs but dream of glory.

For an alternative piece from the one eyed Munster republic even George Hook, the Rudolph Hess to Goebbels Thornley, has pointed out that Kidney has got it wrong by going with O'Gara and Earls. Even the most ardently pro-Munster voice on television is writing that...

"It says something about the Irish management that after 36 caps the Young Munster player's inability to pass has been ignored. Furthermore, moving O'Driscoll to inside centre places extra physical demands on a body that is obviously creaking at the seams."

Thanks George for joining what many of us have been rightly saying for the past two seasons. I'm glad you have caught up.

If we are going to point to writers in the medja as being oracles of all truth and knowledge then WoC as usual is head and shoulders above the print media.

"The choice for ROG’s back up was between Ian Madigan, Paddy Jackson and Ian Keatley. All three featured for their provinces this weekend, in what we hoped would be a beauty parade for at least a place in the matchday squad. But if it was a beauty parade, the ugly sisters have walked away with the sashes and flowers."

They also go on to say that :
"Deccie’s seletion effectively says ‘I don’t care how the lads played this weekend, I’m picking this team anyway’. By omitting his most in-form 10 he is rendering form an irrelevance, and confirming a long-held hunch in most people’s minds that he just doesn’t like Ian Madigan as a player. It’s also a call that gives his critics – such as they are in a supine national media – such easy ammunition it’s almost unbelievable. They say in politics, you should never do anything to confirm a stereotype people have of you – well, Deccie has done exactly that here."

Spot on.

Sin é wrote:By the way, I think if Jackson had Wallace one side & Pienaar the other, he might be a runner.

Sorted so! Paddy Jackson and Paddy Wallace to start, with the Irish player adjudged to be closest to Pienaar in style. Given what he's learned from Ruan I suggest Paul Marshall. McFadden to take the kicks at goal. Good work Sin. You've really helped us solve the great 10 question.

Hmmm... now just need to crack the rest of the team

Sin é wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Just noticed that Madigan isn't listed.

Thanks Declan, you little balding, genial sprite.

Hopefully he'll be mad enough to play POM instead of Henry as well.
I'll send him a crate of Jamiesons myself if he does that.

Yea, it looks like he won't be dropping or moving SOB to facilitate an injured Henry at 7.

Fair do's. Although Deccie is still to selection what Gavin Henson is to particle physics.

Well, Henry was injured. It is yet to be adjudged whether or not he is fit to play. Put him in the 'doubt' category.

Folks, I just want to read a rationale as to why either Madigan or Jackson should start from someone like Shane Horgan, Conor O'Shea or Joe Schmidt because I haven't come across one yet.

Jackson is certainly helped by Pienaar and Wallace that is for sure. It's funny that the one eyed Munster brigade bring this up seeing as ROG spent most of his career being protected by David Wallace. Imagine how good Wallace could have been (and he was already awesome) if he had been allowed to, you know, play his own game and stop babying ROG through them.