Ulster in CRISIS....

NO it's not the return of the old Ulster who barely scraped past teams such as Treviso and Dragons, but an injury crisis, with the news today that Muller will miss the next 4-6 weeks with a groin strain and Chris Henry will be out for another 4 weeks after damaging cartilage in his knee.


The current injury list at Ulster includes:

Tommy Bowe
Roger Wilson
Nick Williams
Stephen Ferris*
Johann Muller
Paddy McAllister
Sean Doyle
Adam D'Arcy
Adam Macklin
Dan Tuohy*
Peter Nelson
Chris Farrell
Chris Henry

*may be available for Glasgow game

Big list and I might have missed a few...

Hadn't heard about Muller, thats a disaster. We can only hope that we will have the guts of these players back for Saracens with a week or 2 to spare.

Got a link to this Muller injury? I can't find anything on it.....

Richard Mulligan (News Letter Sports Ed) on Twitter

richard mulligan ‏@r_mulligan1
#breaking #rugby #rabopro12 Major blow for Ulster with captain, Johann Muller, ruled out for 4-6 weeks with a muscle tear in groin

I've heard that Paul marshall is injured too. I thought he was with the Irish camp.

Dreadful shame for them but good for glasgow and the league :-)

Bad news for Ulster - and rugby as they are the team to beat. If its any consolation The Warriors are just coming out of an injury crisis so you will to - UiG you know about this first hand. Good luck on Friday guys but not too much - ye can afford to give us a wee 4 pointer !

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Bad news for Ulster - and rugby as they are the team to beat. If its any consolation The Warriors are just coming out of an injury crisis so you will to - UiG you know about this first hand. Good luck on Friday guys but not too much - ye can afford to give us a wee 4 pointer !

Difference between afford to and want to isn't there?

The annoying thing is, any team will take great satisfaction at beating the 'leeague leaders' despite it will probably be a near second string side they beat. but hey, thats sport for ya!

Anyone in the know, want to take that list and add the duration of their expected recovery time?

Who all is due back before the Saracens game?

Possible team for the weekend if the worst comes to the worst

Black, Herring/Annett, Afoa, McComb, Simpson, Joyce/McCormish, Diack, Birch, Pienaar, Olding, Cochrane, Wallace, Allen, Trimble, Andrew

Bench: Warwick, Herring/Annett, Lutton, O'Connor, Joyce/McCormish, Heaney, Scholes, Walsh

Now that is assuming ever doubtful player is unavailable but still unbelievable

We have 25 potentially missing by my count

The following must be considered doubtful for Saracens (5)- Payne, Williams, Wilson, Muller, Bowe

The following are definitely out (6) - Nelson, Farrell, Macklin, McAllister, Doyle, D'Arcy

Those carrying non Saracens threatening injuries (5) - Henry, Ferris, Tuohy, Marshall P, O'Connor

With Ireland (9)- Best, Court, Fitzpatrick, Stevenson, Henderson, Jackson, Marshall L, Cave, Gilroy

We may have all the minor injuries, bar Henry, and we may get between 2/3 of the Irish players

I'd love to beat Glasgow with 25 players missing to be fair. That would be a real statement of the clubs ability.

Have to say I can't see it. Players like Olding/Cochrane/Allen/and Andrew, might do ok when thorwn in with an experienced team. But thrown in all playing together, could be very messy...

Only 4 first choice players by my count.

Need a big game from Pienaar. And we need to kick every point we are offered.

Heres hoping we get a few more back. I'm still slightly optimistic...

UiG - looks bad in terms of injuries but your points cushion at the top of the league looks larger and more comfortable than Trump's hairpiece from where I'm sitting and your run-in involves playing the bottom 4 or 5 teams. You could run the Ravenhill Ladies Second XV against Edinburgh at the moment and still come away with a win.

It would be nothing but effing rude to deny the mighty mazongas of Scotstoun a tidy home win this weekend, though. LBPs are heavy, inconvenient things and we wouldn't want you to have to haul any of those back to Ravenhill either. Best to leave those here. We'll take care of them for you.

Geoff - that list of players doubtful for Saracens makes my blood run cold.

Still, "crisis" is a home-from-home for Ulster. We're there almost as much as Ravenhill. Feels good to be back in the ol' stamping ground.

There will have to be a lot of digging deep to maintain the assault on the Rabo and the HEC. It's a tough ask, and may be beyond us this season.

However, for those whose heads are deep in their hands, I recommend watching David Humphreys' interview on Against the Head last night. That man will have us winning silverware in the next few years if he has to pull on a scrum-cap himself. No talk of high-profile signings from that man. Talk instead of player numbers, and of getting out to Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan.

If reality doesn't match Humphreys' grand vision, I suspect reality will have to pull its socks up and get with the programme.

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/11212.php

Doesn't sound good. In fact it seems very dramatic and mysterious. Like maybe they are gearing up to tell us he is taking a career break or something.

You can add Ferris to the doubtful for Saracens.

It actually gets worse Henry talks about a race for Saracens which implies he is not certain either


Reality check time - if we dont have Muller, Ferris or Williams, Henry and Payne for Saracens we will lose

That is simply too many quality players out

To be honest it is my conviction that injuries will end up railroading our season - How I hope I am wrong

On a related matter Ulster will have to find the money to pay Trimble and Ferris in full next year.

Neither is likely to get their central contract renewed and both are up this summer.

Hopefully some of the young bucks will get central contracts to offset this. ROG is another central contract up this summer.

Tommy said in an interview (done last week or so) that he's aiming to be fit to play again in April. His injury was horrendous though from what he was saying, I hadn't realised it was so bad. He's got screws in his knee now...bionic Tommy...

clivemcl wrote:http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/11212.php

Doesn't sound good. In fact it seems very dramatic and mysterious. Like maybe they are gearing up to tell us he is taking a career break or something.

Yeah that sounds very bad indeed. Like a precursor to worse news to come. At a minimum it looks like he won't play at all this season.... I don't even want to think about the worse case...

It brings that recent spat by Mike McGurn and Ferris back into focus. Not sure if everyone is aware of it but McGurn (Ferris ex strength and conditioning coach) made media comments recently that Ferris ligaments and Joints couldn't handle the impact he was putting his body through and that he didn't have long left.... something Ferris took offence to and responded to via twitter.

I raised the question in another thread last week about Ferris' contract, and how complicated and problematic it could become, but someone posted that he wasn't on a central contract currently.

As far as I know Ferris does have a central contract but it runs out this summer and will not be renewed - same goes for Trimble.

Thyis is why these are the only 2 siginficant contracts for next year that have not been secured

I'd say Trimble's Central contract may be awarded to Gilroy, Ferris, I think thats he's going to have to accept a reduction or if he can only play a limited number of games a season, maybe a one year pay as you play sort of deal.

I know this sounds harsh, but he does have a terrible injury record, and it may be the deal in the best intrests of Ulster and Ireland, hopefully he recovers and can play enough to earn at least the same as his old contract would have got him, he may be awarded a central pay as you play deal as when fit he is still a starting player for Ireland, certainly ahead of POM who has a central contract.

As I said before, the IRFU can't really justify a central contract for Ferris - I suspect POM already has the replacement contract, as it were.

TBH if he doesn't get one becuase of his injury record, would the same appy to POC? POC's injury record has been as bad as Ferris's in recent years.

Shame about all the potential injury doubts for the game vs Sarries.

Would like you to put about your best side.

Is it possible for you to break down the importance of each injury?

E.g. are they first choice, 3rd choice, 5th choice etc?

Obviously I can work out players like Ferris,Muller and Bowe who are frontline 1st team players but my knowledge is lacking on the likes of Farrell (only heard of the English ones ),Adam D'Arcy (only heard of the Leinster one) etc.

Tommy Bowe 1st Choice
Roger Wilson (2nd choice 8, 1st choice away from home)
Nick Williams (1st choice 8 at home, close between him and Wilson for 8)
Stephen Ferris 1st choice
Johann Muller 1st choice
Paddy McAllister 2nd choice behind Court
Sean Doyle (2nd choice 7)
Adam D'Arcy 2nd choice fullback
Panye 1st choice fullback
Adam Macklin 3rd choice
Dan Tuohy* 1st choice lock
Peter Nelson 3rd choice
Chris Farrell 3/4 choice
Chris Henry 1st choice 7


Really Nelson and Farrell wouldn't be a big concern, its that injuries are piling up in the same positions, so 1st and 2nd choice are out and it leads to 3rd choice or reshuffling players.

Thank you Kingshu. That information is very helpful.

From 1 – 15, players we may be missing are:

Paddy McAllister (2nd choice LH)
Adam Macklin (3rd choice TH)
Johann Muller (1st choice second row and captain)
Stephen Ferris (1st choice blindside)
Chris Henry (1st choice openside)
Sean Doyle (2nd choice openside)
Roger Wilson (1st choice no. 8)
Nick Williams (2nd choice no. 8)
Tommy Bowe (1st choice winger)
Chris Farrell (3rd/4th choice outside centre)
Jared Payne (1st choice fullback)
Adam D’Arcy (2nd choice fullback)
Peter Nelson (3rd choice fullback)

Alternatively - exactly what Kingshu said.

I'd say the Ulster team for Sarries would be (if none of the above recovered)

Court, Best, Afoa
Stevenson, McComb
Henderson, Diack, McComish
Pienaar, Jackson
Gilroy, Cave, Marshall, Trimble
Andrew

If a player recovers just add them in.

It would be and we would be hammered

Tuohy will be ok though but if we dont get at least 3 of Williams, Henry, Muller and Payne we are probably out

Geoff, relax.

We have the ability to cope in every position but tighthead. It will be a shame if we have half our team missing but we have quality throughout, good team spirit, great supporters and very good structures in attack and defence.

I'd have Ali Birch ahead of McComish, and Tuohy ahead of McComb.

I'd reckon if we get Muller, Henry and Payne back, we should be alright. Wilson/Williams would be a bonus as would Tommy.

opps I though Tuohy was on the injury list,

Front row, half backs, centers and wing are fine.

Stevenson, Tuohy at lock is fine, Muller though is the leader and would be missed a real bonus if could be fit.

Panye for me is the most important, we don't want to be using our 4th choice fullback.

Muller, Henry and Payne for me as well are important

Notch wrote:Geoff, relax.

We have the ability to cope in every position but tighthead. It will be a shame if we have half our team missing but we have quality throughout, good team spirit, great supporters and very good structures in attack and defence.

We do not have the ability to, probably, beat a near fall strength Saracens side with so many top players out.
Other players doing a good job is not enough - you need 7/8 top notch players who bring something extra to win these tournaments

Ulster top notch (see what I did there) are Afoa, Best, Pienaer, Ferris, Muller (because of leadership), Williams, Payne, Bowe - 5 of those 8 may not make it.
Our cover is good, very good, but not good enough to compensate for such significant losses

We may do it but I think it is very unlikely

geoff998rugby wrote:

Notch wrote:Geoff, relax.

We have the ability to cope in every position but tighthead. It will be a shame if we have half our team missing but we have quality throughout, good team spirit, great supporters and very good structures in attack and defence.

We do not have the ability to, probably, beat a near fall strength Saracens side with so many top players out.
Other players doing a good job is not enough - you need 7/8 top notch players who bring something extra to win these tournaments

Ulster top notch (see what I did there) are Afoa, Best, Pienaer, Ferris, Muller (because of leadership), Williams, Payne, Bowe - 5 of those 8 may not make it.
Our cover is good, very good, but not good enough to compensate for such significant losses

We may do it but I think it is very unlikely

You shouldn't write your team off over a month before the game in my opinion!

Not writing them off but I am saying if we miss all 5 of those players we are unlikely to win.

I don't know if I would have Williams in that group geoff, Wilson brings something different at 8 and between them I think its horses for courses, when both are fit its a close call between them, for the others if fit they start.

Mind you I'm beginging to see Ferris as a bonus, a few years ago if we missed him the team was a lot weaker, but now if missed its a better team, and his absense isn't so great, also with his injuries we have kinda got used to playing without him.

Now I see it as a bonus when he plays, rather than a negative when he doesn't. If you get me.

geoff998rugby wrote:Not writing them off but I am saying if we miss all 5 of those players we are unlikely to win.

You might well be right but in my opinion I think there are too many variables and factors to say that at this early stage.

We don't know the form of each side or the injuries on both sides.

Only takes two injuries in a particular position to potentially expose depth frailties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBSFJglzmLk

You Ulster fans will love this link.

Kingshu wrote:I don't know if I would have Williams in that group geoff, Wilson brings something different at 8 and between them I think its horses for courses, when both are fit its a close call between them, for the others if fit they start.

Wilson has performed well as expected in his outings this season - nuggety tidy ball carrier.
Useful at closing out games.

Williams power ball carrying & off loading > opening defences was the main Extra reason we dominated in the forward loose during the 1st half of this season. It's the way God intended the game to be played.

Williams is a more measured player than many give him credit.
Other than his ability to occasionally fumble the pill at the back of the scrum, it's a complete no contest.

dw7 wrote:

Kingshu wrote:I don't know if I would have Williams in that group geoff, Wilson brings something different at 8 and between them I think its horses for courses, when both are fit its a close call between them, for the others if fit they start.

Wilson has performed well as expected in his outings this season - nuggety tidy ball carrier.
Useful at closing out games.

Williams power ball carrying & off loading > opening defences was the main Extra reason we dominated in the forward loose during the 1st half of this season. It's the way God intended the game to be played.

Williams is a more measured player than many give him credit.
Other than his ability to occasionally fumble the pill at the back of the scrum, it's a complete no contest.

Seconded.

Would not disagree with some of that analysis but tonight showed that without a back row of

Henderson/Ferris
Williams/Wilson
Henry

we will lose to Saracens.
Second defeat where the back row went MIA - they back up players are not good enough for an away QF - not even close.

McComb isn't either.

From 4 to 8 Glasgow were far superior and so would Saracens be if we put out the same players

Fez out for the rest of the season. Had ankle surgery again this week, out for 3 months. Back for pre-season!!!

UIG - on the positive side, at least he'll get a good rest now and hopefully be back to his best next season. I was concerned they'd rush him out for the remainder of this season with a view to pushing him into the Lions. I'd rather see him miss out and be in good form for next season and beyond than that. Same for Tommy.

Nobody mentioning Wallace is out for the season too? He was first choice inside centre, I think wee Lukey may have eclipsed him in the past couple of months though but didn't get the HC start because of his own injury.

Team rehab need to heal up sharpish. I see Henry, Williams and Payne as essentials for the quarter final campaign, and the team is looking pretty damn good then, provided we have no more casualties (please!!!).