Brian Odriscoll! !

Does this years 6ns show that Odriscoll should retire from international rugby? and not even think about going on the Lions tour?

Dont get me wrong he has been a great ambassador for the game, his try scoring has been great when he is.has been on form one of the best player's of the game.

But today showed if any thing age, has finaly cought up with him. He and Ronan Ogara should both retire straight after the 6n from international rugby.

Do you agree or disagree?

What exactly did O'Driscoll do wrong?

JmD wrote:What exactly did O'Driscoll do wrong?

He did nothing wrong. On the other hand he did nothing particularly good. In fact I hardly noticed he was playing at all.

No, you can't base it of one match. If he has consistently poor performances then yes.

nathan wrote:No, you can't base it of one match. If he has consistently poor performances then yes.

He played well against Wales but was very average against England and Scotland. He seems to have lost his fizz.

Exiledinborders wrote:

nathan wrote:No, you can't base it of one match. If he has consistently poor performances then yes.

He played well against Wales but was very average against England and Scotland. He seems to have lost his fizz.

Still not long enough to say he's lost it.

He's the only player that would get into the English team.

Im a massive fan of BOD why should he retire hes not been amazing yet has there been any one better than him in the 6 nations no, there's not been a single out standing player in the 6 nations this year so

Josiah are you seeing the same England team as me their poor if it wasn't for farrel kicking goals they wouldn't win a game their not scoring tries their not a great team they have very little cutting edge

Why do people think it should be up to the player to retire? surely if hes not good enough than he wont get picked.

I agree no one can force someone to play clearly is heart is still in it and he's still got the skills

welshboii15 wrote:Josiah are you seeing the same England team as me their poor if it wasn't for farrel kicking goals they wouldn't win a game their not scoring tries their not a great team they have very little cutting edge

Haha

You can tell its the 6N's and England are doing well!

Im not saying their a bad side and or they don't deserve to be where they are but can you honestly say they have the cutting edge to be a brilliant side they have scored 3 tries and farrels kicks have been massive ones so yea England are showing good signs with their defensive displays just not alot else where

Absurd Article. BOD had a quiet game, but did not play badly. A more interesting question is has Kearney lost the Lions test 15 spot with his awful game and decision making?

Did he ever have the spot this time around

I think a Lions year is a fairly logical point for a player to retire. ROG should have gone after the Rugby World Cup but I think BOD did the right thing playing on till the Lions, given that he still has a reasonable chance of touring. I would stick with Jackson but bring in Madigan on the bench.

He isn't anywhere near as good as he was but he is still better than Basteraud, Lamont, Davies, Benvenuti and arguably Tuilagi. O'Gara on the other hand has lost his mind as well as his body.

Just like most french players Basteraud is woefully over rated.

I think with basteraud is good player look when he played Wales he was good I just think like Wales with Roberts his support are expecting to much

welshboii15 wrote:Josiah are you seeing the same England team as me their poor if it wasn't for farrel kicking goals they wouldn't win a game their not scoring tries their not a great team they have very little cutting edge

And yet England have won all their 6ns matches to date. Compaired to Wales that is.

But that don't make the team good that's just proving the few individual players they have are making a difference. Take Dan Cole, Tom Youngs, Robshaw, farrel out of the side England be a massive fail. People say Wales are all crash ball which is TRUE but with england all the do is kick the ball or wait for Dan cole to destroy someone in the scrum to get a penalty for farrel to slot the ball over

Though BOD showed some lovely support running, clever kicks and quick hands today. Nothing wrong with his performance, was robbed of a try by Earls

welshboii15 wrote:But that don't make the team good that's just proving the few individual players they have are making a difference. Take Dan Cole, Tom Youngs, Robshaw, farrel out of the side England be a massive fail. People say Wales are all crash ball which is TRUE but with england all the do is kick the ball or wait for Dan cole to destroy someone in the scrum to get a penalty for farrel to slot the ball over

This is really for another thread but in good conditions (not a monsoon or -2c) against Scotland England played a comprehensive attacking game and won. Then in poor conditions and against teams that were only looking to rough us up they kept it tight and won. Now if they play the tight game against Italy i'll be very dissapointed, but until that game we can't really judge too much about how England are playing.

yappysnap wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:But that don't make the team good that's just proving the few individual players they have are making a difference. Take Dan Cole, Tom Youngs, Robshaw, farrel out of the side England be a massive fail. People say Wales are all crash ball which is TRUE but with england all the do is kick the ball or wait for Dan cole to destroy someone in the scrum to get a penalty for farrel to slot the ball over

This is really for another thread but in good conditions (not a monsoon or -2c) against Scotland England played a comprehensive attacking game and won. Then in poor conditions and against teams that were only looking to rough us up they kept it tight and won. Now if they play the tight game against Italy i'll be very dissapointed, but until that game we can't really judge too much about how England are playing.

I disagree the weather determined that England were going to win against Ireland it prevented Ireland from playing the kind of game they wanted

How old is bod now??? 34... If so he will be 36 at the rugby World Cup. Not unheard of, mike Catt made a final aged 36 or 37 but truth be told he was a different type of player.

Catt was a distributor and a tactican... BOD is more physical and its going to be very difficult to keep on going given the damage he does to himself as a consequence of his competitiveness.

Don't underestimate his new role as a da either. As a father myself I can state that it changes you and your priorities. I expect his career was firmly number 1 for him... That will all change now, quality time is what we all crave and long trips away from the family are gut wrenching... Does he want to miss out on his kids first few years???

Different for every person but from the sounds of it I can't see it myself, its sounds like this is his swan song season from his press comments.

What's the point of going on another season??? A nothing year, a 6N tournament when he has already had what 14 cracks at it already? This year is a lions series.... That's big and given he has never won a series and only 1 test in 6 I can see the fire for him to have 1 last try... But no more.

I reckon O'Driscoll will retire after the Lions from International rugby he did alright today though, solid in defence ran good support line him and paddy Jackson drew 2 players to let Marshall away at one point those lines are just as important as breaking defences. ROG on the other hand should retire or be taken out back

ChequeredJersey wrote:Though BOD showed some lovely support running, clever kicks and quick hands today. Nothing wrong with his performance, was robbed of a try by Earls

Spot on

He didnt have a bad game at all, we were bang in the centre and he made some clever runs, was always supported the midfield/wings, quickest pair of hands on the pitch and supported the rookie Marshall superbly in a wet and cold day.

Quick question on Ireland and BOD... Our weakest defender in the backline is lamont. He is no coward but he is also no centre. His positional play is troubling... Why was this not targeted by Ireland and BOD???

Any team should see him as a weak spot and something to exploit, it's nothing new either. New caps at 10 and 12 or not BOD is the undoubted backline captain and would have had a say all week on strategy and plays including during the game.

If jaque Fourie was on the pitch today he'd be thundering down that channel all day.

I think BOD has lost patience with the team and Kidney, looked like he totally lost the head with Earls after he butchered a certain try (a trademark of his) and at one point looked like he was fighting back the urge to assume the captaincy from Heaslip.

I can't see any reason why he could continue beyond this season even if he was up to it. The IRFU are clearly grooming Luke Marshall to take over from him next year, hence Marshall playing at outside centre.

ROG was finished 2 seasons ago.

I felt at times that BOD was raging against the dying of the light. He had a decent match but his frustrations seemed apparent. Frustrations with his team-mates and with his own body, that it can no longer do what it used to.

He is quite clearly not the player he once was - yet is still good enough to be in Lions contention.

It is also quite clear that he is coming towards the end of his international career. I feel that this 6Ns should be his Irish swansong and whether he goes on the Lions is up to Gatland.

tecphobe wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

welshboii15 wrote:But that don't make the team good that's just proving the few individual players they have are making a difference. Take Dan Cole, Tom Youngs, Robshaw, farrel out of the side England be a massive fail. People say Wales are all crash ball which is TRUE but with england all the do is kick the ball or wait for Dan cole to destroy someone in the scrum to get a penalty for farrel to slot the ball over

This is really for another thread but in good conditions (not a monsoon or -2c) against Scotland England played a comprehensive attacking game and won. Then in poor conditions and against teams that were only looking to rough us up they kept it tight and won. Now if they play the tight game against Italy i'll be very dissapointed, but until that game we can't really judge too much about how England are playing.

I disagree the weather determined that England were going to win against Ireland it prevented Ireland from playing the kind of game they wanted

Oh do behave!!

BOD of yesteryear would have taken that game by the scruff of its neck and dragged his team to victory.

I'm just surprised he didn't look to take matters into his own hands.

LondonTiger wrote:I felt at times that BOD was raging against the dying of the light. He had a decent match but his frustrations seemed apparent. Frustrations with his team-mates and with his own body, that it can no longer do what it used to.

He is quite clearly not the player he once was - yet is still good enough to be in Lions contention.

It is also quite clear that he is coming towards the end of his international career. I feel that this 6Ns should be his Irish swansong and whether he goes on the Lions is up to Gatland.

Wouldn't you be frustrated when you see a Team disintegrate before your eyes - slowly, inevitably, bit by bit, over the course of some three to four steady years now, regardless of which players are on the field?

Wouldn't you be frustrated that you're again looked to by the fans, the other players, the coaches themselves and indeed, even outside neutral observers, as the supposed saviour in a pile of criminally badly coached rugby.

Wouldn't you be frustrated that you don't have a minute in a game where your young and vibrant team mates carriy your 'age' for a little while and gives you a breather as they fill in those gaps with their own zeal? Wouldn't you be frustrated that you're always the one looked to for the magic...and when it doesn't come, you're always the one who gets the 'should he now retire' lines?

The picture of this Ireland was evident in Earls' twisting and turning surge out of Scottish trouble and chase for the line. His brain, having worked the beauty that would have had him hailed for the try (regardless of whether he was the scorer or not) proceeded to close down and think only of personal glory. His peripheral vision closed down, his sense of the 'team' was flushed from his system.

One man wouldn't have fluffed the chance, one man would have had the vision to see the better option, one man would have had the lack of personal ego and passed it, and that was the same man that screamed 'frustration' at Earls after the event... the one man that yet again was in the perfect position of support to take the glory of Earls' break over the line - to in actual fact give Earls the medal for the effort made.

There is a lot (a LOT!) wrong with this Irish side - Brian O'Driscoll, so close to retirement as he might be, isn't one of them.

Oh BTW - The Lions can choose who they like for 13 and for Captain. Ireland is the issue for Brian O'Driscoll and his team-mates. Ireland isn't an audition for The Lions - it's the more important deal. Let the English, Welsh and Scottish go on their tour if that's the bulk of who gets chosen. So be it - I wouldn't be shedding any tears for lack of Irish contribution.

SecretFly wrote:
There is a lot (a LOT!) wrong with this Irish side - Brian O'Driscoll, so close to retirement as he might be, isn't one of them.

+ 1

.....and if I might be so bold as to suggest that Paddy Jackson isn't either.....

I'd be the first to say Paddy Jackson isn't either, Rodders. And in the course of today, at some stage, I was intent on saying so.

Paddy Jackson should be automatically back in position for next game. He's learning... he wasn't by any means all bad. The time for nonsense chat is well and truly over - we all know who needs to go. Only a few (like Hook) have the passion enough for Ireland to actually say so in the media.

The 'reasons for losing' are all bunk. There is one reason - and it's the natural ending of a coaching team's inspiration. They, as a group, not just Kidney - as a group - have nothing more to give. The players just don't believe in the relationship anymore despite the public reassurances that they do.

SF I agree with you and was not looking to denigrate BOD - rather explain why I think the end for him is near. Once upon a time he could have hauled Ireland out of that morass. Now his body just is not what it was.

Yeah the cracks are there for all to see now fly. Under pressure this team just falls apart. There is no faith in the systems, not leadership, no cohesion.

I don't think its a case of pointing the finger at individuals, on the whole I was impressed with the younger guys, but there is no cohesion at all.

Earls not passing to BOD, ROGs meltdown and O'Brien making the line breaks with no support are obvious examples but that was a horror show to watch.

We just had endless ball and no one had a clue what to do with it.

A totally new coaching set up is needed asap. The head coach needs to be able to pick their coaching team as well.

If there were new coaches who would they be?

The provinces have mainly kiwi coaches, and the most successfull Irish club coaches are Connor O'Shea and Mark McCall over in the AP.

Of course the Connacht dream team of elwwod and Bradley would be available.

I'd love Elwood.

Unfortunately I can only see the IRFU promoting from within so we could well get more of the same.

Ruddock, Kiss and Foley are obviously being groomed but given what a disaster 6N we are having maybe the IRFU will expedite things and look at other options.

WTF? O'Driscoll is Ireland's best 13 at the moment, therefore he deserves the international jersey.

The only thing that stopped BOD getting a brace yesterday was two superb covering tackles from Sean Maitland. Perhaps the focus should be on that kind of thing instead? Just a suggestion.

It's what BOD represents that's the important thing and that's why he'll tour. BOD at 75% is still a damn sight better than almost anyone else out in there in his position.

Whatever about kisses abilities as a defensive coach to have any of the current coaching setup promoted to head man has to be Mistake. Surely if kiss had the answers he would have given them to kidney

LondonTiger wrote:If there were new coaches who would they be?

The provinces have mainly kiwi coaches, and the most successfull Irish club coaches are Connor O'Shea and Mark McCall over in the AP.

Of course the Connacht dream team of elwwod and Bradley would be available.

A good mention there Tiger as it's a good comparison.

Edinburgh choose Bradley and he takes them to the HC semis. He takes them absolutely nowhere this year and he's gone. A team that should have patience, given what they've achieved at Pro12 and HEC level (not all that much - not being cruel, being factual) But a team that had the time to be patient and think of this year as being a hiccup in development rather than a decent into oblivion...they showed how cruel rugby has become and how businesslike it has become - Bradley was dumped.

Ireland (an International team) - one of some ability and reputation - starts to fall off the radar about 3 years ago...keeps falling...keeps falling... keeps falling...and the same coaching team is still there, blaming the shape of the moon and the colour of the ball on a grey day...anything but themselves.... and they're still there, offering up the trinkets of wisdom to the players who are losing reputations faster than a Fofana try.

I think he should retire after the Lions tour, it's the best way to go at the very top.

His last International game should be in an Irish shirt with the Ireland crest............................... and...............................*ahem*.................a winning game???? Next coach owes him that much.

SecretFly wrote:The picture of this Ireland was evident in Earls' twisting and turning surge out of Scottish trouble and chase for the line. His brain, having worked the beauty that would have had him hailed for the try (regardless of whether he was the scorer or not) proceeded to close down and think only of personal glory. His peripheral vision closed down, his sense of the 'team' was flushed from his system.

One man wouldn't have fluffed the chance, one man would have had the vision to see the better option, one man would have had the lack of personal ego and passed it, and that was the same man that screamed 'frustration' at Earls after the event... the one man that yet again was in the perfect position of support to take the glory of Earls' break over the line - to in actual fact give Earls the medal for the effort made.

Fly about the time BOD failed to pass to Earls on his outside (about 5.50 mins in). Looks like he was going for glory - Earls was obviously too nice to berate O'Driscoll for it (and it was an Earl break that got them there).

Anyone with the try scoring record of O'Driscoll must be a wee bit selfish

Sin................ Earls was going for glory. I'll repeat it as often as you call me up on it. So if you want the matter to die down, don't keep trying to get a confession out of me that I'm wrong. On each occasion I see a comment from you about it, I'll repeat the accusation. Heart led his head.

On current Form BOD is probably Borderline for the Lions.. However I think he will be picked due to his experience/ aura that will help the lions overall.. However I don't think he will be first choice for the tests..

Thinking about BOD touring, I reckon he will be given every chance to show his form is there before selection as Gats knows if he takes him it has to be with a view to him starting otherwise the story will be BOD on tour not selected etc

O'Driscoll didnt play well against Scotland.

Whether Earls did or did not pass to him does not change that.

The bashing of individual players (Paddy Jackson and Keith Earls particularly) has been very sad to see.

Few Irish players did well against Scotland.

I think O'Driscoll is not the player he once was. For me a player like Manu Tuilagi offers much more. O'Driscoll should tour with the Lions but not necessarily as a starting player.

As for retiring internationally he won't do that. He would lose a bucket load of cash and Ireland have nobody to plug the hole that he would leave. In a coherent backline he still offers something but isn't the player he was. Let the likes of Simon Zebo and Luke Marshall grab the headlines - we can be working new options into the 13 jersey in the meantime.

Good strategy stag...you should appply for Deccie's job