Farrell out for the Italy game.

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-breaking-news/7662/owen-farrell-not-fit-to-play-italy/

Let's see if this does allow the wingers into the game...
Could actually do our points tally good! who knows!

I don't think the failure to get the ball to our wingers in the last 2 games had much to do with Farrell's distribution - much more to do with the horrible weather in Ireland meaning a territorial game was the route to go down, and because the French made a mess of our breakdown for the first 50 minutes of the match, meaning our half backs were getting slow ball on the back foot.

However, I do think this is probably the game where we will miss Farrell the least, and if Flood is in decent form he does offer a greater threat as a runner in his own right and has previously been very good at linking up with Ashton in particular. Will be interesting to see how they go, although as always the first thing is to make sure we win in the forwards.

If Flood plays well and if England put a huge score on Italy - (if's please note) would SL let him keep the 10 shirt or is Owen Farrell now always first pick - I don't think he was great last game - and SL supposedly is willing to change players when others step up?

dammit

I was gonna have farrell in my fantasy team for goal kicking duties

Flood taking the kicks now I take it?

tigertattie wrote:dammit

I was gonna have farrell in my fantasy team for goal kicking duties

Flood taking the kicks now I take it?

Yeah, and while not a mechanoid, he's no slouch at kicking.

nobbled wrote:If Flood plays well and if England put a huge score on Italy - (if's please note) would SL let him keep the 10 shirt or is Owen Farrell now always first pick - I don't think he was great last game - and SL supposedly is willing to change players when others step up?

Flood established himself as first choice in the Summer and this continued through the Autumn, till he was injured. Farrell came in against NZ and performed well and was retained. I suspect that Farrell is now the preferred choice - but if Flood is outstanding against Italy it makes things interesting.

As to his form, well much of the last month has been spent on the bench coming on for short (and decent) cameos. His one start since the HEC match in the snow vs Toulouse was against Quins where he was phenomenal.

Flood is a great player given front-foot ball, but can go awry when on the back foot (especially when paired with Youngs, who seems to suffer from the same issue). Against Italy, and paired with Care (as seems likely), I don't think it will be an issue.

It will be interesting to see whether performances at the weekend make any difference to SL's selections against Wales, or whether he reverts to Farrell given the option.

So who is the back up fly-half on the bench then? I thought Burns was injured too?

If Burns was fit...he would start for me...but i dont know if hes fit at the moment...sure he's injured.

So it looks like Flood to start...well then you're looking at Saxons FH's....and thats MR Ford...who didnt do himself many favours in the recent Saxons game at Kingston park.

A recall for Charlie Hodgson?

At the moment it seems that either Burns is going on the bench or that they would look at 36 to fill in. Goode being the other option.

I read this morning that Burns is expected to be on the bench.

Otherwise, yeh we've got 12T or Goode to cover, but I fully expect Burns to be there.

Take out a few more English players, rest them, don't replace them; tie the rest's legs together....and you'd still win this encounter easily....

Burns managed 50 minutes against Bath and is in this weeks training squad.

No other FH has been called up so he will in all liklihood be on the bench. It would be asking a lot for him to come in and start after 6 weeks out.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2284459/Owen-Farrell-cited-Morgan-Parra-elbow.html

Quite fortunate not to get suspended too. He saw a lot of "red mist" v France.

The French were trying equally as hard to wind him up. The media all week had been highlighting the fact that they were going to target Farrell. I think he was just sticking up for himself, and biting back. Admittedly, the elbow was too far, but Parra certainly did milk it.

Poorfour wrote:Flood is a great player given front-foot ball, but can go awry when on the back foot (especially when paired with Youngs, who seems to suffer from the same issue). Against Italy, and paired with Care (as seems likely), I don't think it will be an issue.

It will be interesting to see whether performances at the weekend make any difference to SL's selections against Wales, or whether he reverts to Farrell given the option.

To be fair to Flood which fly halves perform well when on the backfoot?

Even Carter had a poor game vs England when his pack were getting beaten. Carter is playing in the best side in the world. It helps!

The pack is generally the key. It's pretty obvious - if the pack allows the backs opportunities and good quick ball then the backs will be able to shine.

A lot of the time backs get panned for being poor because their pack are getting beaten. I think we are all guilty of that.

E.g. Farrell didn't exactly look good vs France and Ireland because his pack were toiling, in contrast the pack performed really strongly vs NZ and Scotland which allowed the backs more opportunities.

Jonny Wilkinson had the 2003 powerful pack in front of him for example.

Both Flood and Farrell are used to working with two of the strongest packs in the AP.

GunsGerms wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2284459/Owen-Farrell-cited-Morgan-Parra-elbow.html

Quite fortunate not to get suspended too. He saw a lot of "red mist" v France.

More like common sense over nothing on the commisioner's part.

markb wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2284459/Owen-Farrell-cited-Morgan-Parra-elbow.html

Quite fortunate not to get suspended too. He saw a lot of "red mist" v France.

More like common sense over nothing on the commisioner's part.

Spose the odd elbow to the face never hurt anyone. In his defense it was Morgan Parra too.

GunsGerms wrote:

markb wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2284459/Owen-Farrell-cited-Morgan-Parra-elbow.html

Quite fortunate not to get suspended too. He saw a lot of "red mist" v France.

More like common sense over nothing on the commisioner's part.

Spose the odd elbow to the face never hurt anyone. In his defense it was Morgan Parra too.

Ha, exactly!

I think anyone would love a chance to smack him. I really can't stand him. Such a shame he's probably the best SH in the NH!

Can you imagine the response if he'd stepped on someone's ankle

lostinwales wrote:Can you imagine the response if he'd stepped on someone's ankle

Based on the fairly muted response to his indicipline v France I'd imagine it would be fairly low key.

I'm sure if some people want to see an elbow to the face they can tell themselves there was one, the Welsh citing commissioner along with a large number of other sensible rugby fans saw that wasn't the case though.

markb wrote:I'm sure if some people want to see an elbow to the face they can tell themselves there was one, the Welsh citing commissioner along with a large number of other sensible rugby fans saw that wasn't the case though.

Can I assume you have studied the footage? If so would you mind sending me a link?

Ahhh, the sensible rugby fans. Glad they're still with us and hanging in there. I thought they were extinct.

I'm obviously of the unfashionable few that actually think Flood is a better FH than Farrell (with the exception of goal kicking). If his kicking is on form, and he doesn't pick up an injury (another problem with him) I think Flood will show that. After all it was only after the ABs game that Farrell became the favourite for the #10 shirt.

Good position to be in tho' (2 FH's to choose from that is, not Farrell injured!). Plus one in the making.

Takes two to tango. As bluestonevedder said the French tried their best to wind up and unsettle Farrell.

I am pretty sure Picamoles tripped up Farrell as well.

Theatrical overreaction by Parra.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:I'm obviously of the unfashionable few that actually think Flood is a better FH than Farrell (with the exception of goal kicking). If his kicking is on form, and he doesn't pick up an injury (another problem with him) I think Flood will show that. After all it was only after the ABs game that Farrell became the favourite for the #10 shirt.

Good position to be in tho' (2 FH's to choose from that is, not Farrell injured!). Plus one in the making.

Unfortunately Flood hasn't really shone when starting at 10 for England recently. Done well off the bench though.

I wasn't impressed by him vs Australia and South Africa in the AIs - I was waiting for the much vaunted about attacking prowess and running of the backline which Flood supposedly brings to the table. I know he didn't play much of the SA game but he did contribute with 2 misses at goal.

Flood might well have a good game vs Italy but with dominance by the pack expected that would be unsurprising. Flood certainly offers an experienced back up option though.

I would still stick Farrell as starter vs Wales.

Hmmm, in the Oz game we were mugged by a smarter side – with their breakdown skills and those little over –the-top kicks, plus some dubious English tackling, and no-one English looked that good. Can’t really blame just Flood for that. In the SA game he got injured in the 1st 20mins (his fault for not kicking to touch sooner). So that’s also a bit harsh. He has been injured too much over the last year or so, tho'. And he certainly doesn’t like it up him – but the pack have to take some responsibility there. He was excellent around 2010, and seemed to bring the best out of the Splash – and if he can regain that form…..Meanwhile Farrell’s grabbed his chance.

beshocked wrote: I know he didn't play much of the SA game but he did contribute with 2 misses at goal.

To be fair, as with Farrell v France, the misses came after the injury.

For me Flood at his best is better than Farrell at his best.

BUT

Farrell is more consistent
Farrell has more scope to improve.

We also keep on winning with Farrell playing

Barney Mc Grew I can tell you are a fan of Flood. He's had his ups and downs.

The way I see it he had a pretty good 2010 AIs. He had two strong games vs Wales away and Italy in the 2011 6 nations but started to tail off after that.

This led to Wilkinson supplanting him at 10 for the 2011 world cup and the warm up games because Flood wasn't performing well. He also performed poorly in the 2011 AP final, being outdone by Farrell.

Wilkinson didn't have a good rwc and MJ failed to play Flood at 10 when at some time he should have.

Flood has been good and bad for England but never really shone consistently. Injury hasn't helped admittedly.

Londontiger you say that but you are comparing a 21 year old with a 27 year old. I would agree with that.

Parra, as usual, auditioning for La Comedie Francais. He's and out and out thespian who would fit well in wendy ball.

Flood is as good a replacement as we could wish for and if the forwards do give a platform to work from will be out to prove a point. From what I gather Burns' outing at the weekend wasn't great but we need him around the squad, I think. It would be great to have min 3 players for every spot.

GunsGerms wrote:

markb wrote:I'm sure if some people want to see an elbow to the face they can tell themselves there was one, the Welsh citing commissioner along with a large number of other sensible rugby fans saw that wasn't the case though.

Can I assume you have studied the footage? If so would you mind sending me a link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3BiOF1fpQY&t=31m20s

Not all the camera angles and frame by frame capability that the professional citing commissioner would have had at his disposal to make his fully informed decision on the matter, but this footage clearly shows it is a nudge with his upper arm that Parra makes a complete meal of, and nothing to do with his elbow, which is well below Parra's head at shoulder level, as the following screen cap at the moment of contact plainly shows.

Spoiler:

beshocked wrote:
Londontiger you say that but you are comparing a 21 year old with a 27 year old. I would agree with that.

Which is exactly why I said it. Farrell is young and surely can improve. Flood is probably about as good as he is going to get.

Parra should be cited if anyone! Pathetic.