Discussion of Scotland for the Italy game

So, here we go again Scotland fans, 6 days to go until another very important RWC warm up test against the Azzuri, and endless thorn in our side in the 6N with a powerful forward display managed to barge Japan out of one of their warm up tests at the weekend.

From what Roinson says, pretty much everyone he is taking on the tour to New Zealand will have game time in the warm ups, and we know Barclay, Brown and Hines are certain to feature in this match, so who do we anticipate will be making an appearance this weekend?

I think the front row may be a tough one to call, will Robinson give Dickinson a chance to start at loose? Or will he stick with chunk? For the match I would expect the pack to look like this :

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Hines
5. Kellock
6. Brown
7. Barclay (C)
8. Beattie

Seems the most logical team however since Robinson has already mentioned Hines, Barclay and Brown in the same breath do we think that will be his starting backrow unit? I would also really like to see Barclay get the captaincy for the game too and for the world cup. I’m a firm believer in a captain in the forwards and feel just like Warburton for Wales it could bring Barclay up to the next level.

The backs is a much more difficult choice to make. Will he go for the trademark bruising backline or will he throw caution to the wind and try and put out a more creative backline. The fly half berth IMO raises the most question marks.

If Robinson thinks Laidlaw is capable of playing a test match at fly half, this would be almost certainly the best place to try it. Is there a chance Laidlaw will start at 10 with either “Desperate” Dan or Jackson on the bench? I would like to see Robinson try for a creative backline but would not want to see that creativity stifled by Parks at 10, so I guess that makes for 2 possible line ups, a creative one and a perhaps not so creative one. IMO Ansbro, Mossy and S. Lamont have done enough to book their places and would not expect them to feature this weekend.

9. Cusiter or Blair / Lawson
10. Laidlaw / Parks
11. Evans or Walker (In Walkers defence, he looked hungry against Ireland and surprisingly dangerous)
12. Cairns / Morrison
13. NDL
14. Danielli
15. R. Lamont / Cuthbert

I would personally like to see how Cusiter/Laidlaw/Cairns/NDL could link up as the 9/10/12/13 axis with some of the bigger boys like Walker, Danielli and Rory Lamont coming into the line and into the spaces the smaller more nimble centres could make for them.

I would not be surprised to see Cuthbert and Denton making cameo appearances from the bench again too with probably Richie Gray in toe too. Most likely with Cross and Lawson covering the front row.

I have tickets for the game, I bought them before my wee rant after the last game, but seriously, I really want Scotland to start Scoring some tries. I’m not expecting us to go out and run a riot but I just want something to cheer for that is not a last gasp sigh of relief!

I completely agree with your pack. My only question mark is whether he'll want to use Scott Lawson at hooker to give him some time, but on reflection I think it's more important to give Ford the chance to work with Hines and Kellock on the line-out. I think there's a decent chance Ford will start every game, with perhaps Lawson getting 40 minutes against Romania so that Ford is ready for Georgia. Obviously it's best if Dougie Hall isn't used at all, and Robinson should strive to achieve that.

The forwards bench will I think tell us more about where Robinson is going with his final 30. I'd expect Murray Low and Scott Lawson to cover the front row, but I wonder who will take the other two spots. I've been fairly dismissive of Rob Harley's chances of going, but if Robinson did want to take a brief look, I guess he could take the reserve lock spot, on the understanding that he'll come on at 6 unless one of Hines or Kellock get injured. We know that both Hamilton and Gray will travel. That would then allow either Denton or Vernon to take the other spot for Beattie's replacement.

My bench would be Low, Lawson, Hamilton and Denton. Hamiton ahead of Gray only because I think he could use the warm-up more. Gray already looked sharp against Ireland.

Not sure you're quite there with the backs though to be honest. At scrum half, much will depend on the fitness of Cusiter and Blair, but if both are fit then I think both will feature. If only one is fit, then that player should feature and Laidlaw should be on the bench. That's how I would look at it. I'd start Jackson at 10 with S Lamont at 12 and NDL at 13. We should have had 3 games to warm-up, but with only two, we need to focus on getting Jackson as warmed-up and ready as possible. He is central now to the style that Robinson is trying to adopt. I'd look to use Parks for as much as the second half as possible (and would repeat that combination against Romania). We saw Morrison at 12 against Ireland, I'd try S Lamont now in that position to see which works best. I'd want Morrison though to come off the bench in the second half, he still needs game time. NDL deserves a shot, and the back three is easy, we should go with the three players who haven't featured yet, Evans, Danielli and Rory Lamont.

So, to recap:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Hines 5.Kellock (c) 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Beattie 9.Cusiter 10.Jackson 11.Evans 12.S Lamont 13.NDL 14.Danielli 15. R Lamont

16.Low 17.S Lawson 18.Hamilton 19.Denton 20.Blair 21.Parks 22.Morrison

I'm actually confident for Scotland, they did well to beat Ireland, who whilst not naming their strongest team, did have a lot of quality players and are lucky to have such depth.

The Italian team will be quite interesting, if they select the big name players they have available, Paressi, Salvatore Perugini, Martin Castrogiovanni, and the Bergamasco brothers then it could be quite a tussle, but I think Scotland will pull through ok.

Italy picked a reserve team against Japan and almost came unstuck, so this game will be most of their main players first game of rugby. Where as Scotland will be battle hardened after the Ireland game, and pretty rested after a week off too.

The important one for Scotland will be Argentina but to be honest I think Scotland could well win that, because Argentina have had an awful preperation for the World Cup. their last decent match was against Ireland in November 2010. Since then they have played Uruguay and Chile (in May) getting massive 60 and 70 point wins. Then they played a South America XV and got another 70 points. They will now play one game against Wales and a friendly against Worcester 3 days later before their opener against England.

Wales could do Scotland a real favour and cut Argentina to pieces next week, and really hit their confidence, Argentina havent had to defend since 2010 when Ireland walloped them, and Wales are looking deadly and clinical in attack at the moment.

To me it looks like Argentina will be very under cooked for the World Cup, and a bad loss to a huge England pack will hammer their self belief.
Scotland on the other hand will play Romania and Georgia first up so will have a good chance of get a winning run together and 4 straight wins, after Ireland, Italy (hopefully), Romania, and Georgia.
When was the last time Scotland had the confidence of 4 straight wins? Possibly 5 going into the England game if they beat Argentina.

Though I will add I think England would destroy Scotland in any place outside of Murrayfield, simply because of their physical power. Scotland will not be able to contain England in the way Wales did.

Interesting piece in the Scotsman about the selection choices facing Andy Robinson: Decision time

Having now had a chance to catch up on the Ireland game, I suspect that Radge and fES have it about right for the XXII we'll see against Italy. A front row of Dickinson/Ford/Murray looks right, provided big Euge is sufficiently recovered from injury, with Lawson and Low on the bench. a 2nd row of Hines and Kellock makes a lot of sense, and it doesn't really matter whether its Gray or Hamilton on the bench, as all 4 will be on the plane. We know that we'll see Brown and Barclay for sure, the only question in my mind is as to how Beattie has been going in training. If he's struggling for form, I'd like to see Denton give a shot from the start, altho I recognise that that represents a 'high-risk', un-Robbo-like selection. If that is the case, then Harley could get a run out from the bench, but if Beattie starts, then I expect to see Denton offered another brief cameo, with Rennie already having done enough to warrant his plane ticket.

The backs are trickier. Personally I'd be inclined to leave Parks at home, but as the article says, that would leave Scotland without a genuine plan B, so that is unlikely to happen. That being the case Parks needs some game time, in harness either with Blair or Cusiter, depending on injury, and I'd have Laidlaw on the bench for cover at 10. I don't think Cairns will travel, so it's time to take another look at S Lamont at IC, probably in tandem with NDL. Evans and Danielli on the wings, with R Lamont joining them in the back three. Rests for Mossy, Ansbro and Morrison (possible bench slot for one of them), no room for Cuthbert or Walker I'm afraid.

In summary:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Hines 5.Kellock (c) 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Cusiter 10.Parks 11.Evans 12.S Lamont 13.NDL 14.Danielli 15. R Lamont

16.Low 17.S Lawson 18.Hamilton 19.Harley 20.Blair 21.Laidlaw 22.Morrison

AlynDavies wrote:Wales could do Scotland a real favour and cut Argentina to pieces next week, and really hit their confidence, Argentina havent had to defend since 2010 when Ireland walloped them, and Wales are looking deadly and clinical in attack at the moment.

AD, we'd be much obliged if you would! Cheers

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

AlynDavies wrote:Wales could do Scotland a real favour and cut Argentina to pieces next week, and really hit their confidence, Argentina havent had to defend since 2010 when Ireland walloped them, and Wales are looking deadly and clinical in attack at the moment.

AD, we'd be much obliged if you would! Cheers

Indeed, the 1st round will be on us in the 6N if you guys doing a number on the Pumas throw them off their game.

I read that Article As and it seems to be trumping Dan for a "plan B" to be honest I would really not even want to consider a "plan B", and to be mentioning it shows little confidence in our "plan A".

I reckon with a little creative flair in the backs from NDL or Ansbro plan B will not even be needed. The way Cross played against Ireland, Murray needs to roll back a couple of seasons to the man who made Tendai "The Beast" Mtwarria look reluctant to pack down for more punishment.

If he can't I seriously would question the decision to take him over someone else who might bring more to the table.

Radge, agreed re Murray - the only problem is the form of Moray Low, the other obvious alternative. I fear that he's regressed over the last year and that Robbo may not consider him an adequate back-up

The backrow too will be an area on Saturday to measure Ourselves, Kelly Brown had a stormer at 8 against the superb Parisse in the 6N and if Beattie or Denton cannot step up to the mark, I reckon Brown may become 1st choice 8 with Stroks covering the blindside.

Whoever plays 8 this weekend will need a massive game not only to stake their claim to a plane ticket but to contain the explosive Italian backrow. Barclay too after his long lay off I'm expecting to be rusty but has now hopefully got over his niggling injuries and will now be in a great position to replicate his form of last season.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:In summary:

1.Dickinson 2.Ford 3.Murray 4.Hines 5.Kellock (c) 6.Brown 7.Barclay 8.Denton 9.Cusiter 10.Parks 11.Evans 12.S Lamont 13.NDL 14.Danielli 15. R Lamont

16.Low 17.S Lawson 18.Hamilton 19.Harley 20.Blair 21.Laidlaw 22.Morrison

The day has finally arrived. ASBO has selected Parks for a match and I haven't

Ha, ha Yes, it's true, the keyboard was burning me as I typed! If Robbo insists on taking him, then I think he has to get at least some game time. I suspect that if Blair or Cusiter are injured, we might see Laidlaw on the bench and that he might get 20 mins at stand-off providing B or C can make the full 80

If we did that I'd be slightly worried about Jackson being a little under cooked going into the World Cup. I'd rather he and Parks got 40 minutes each, than wasting time on Laidlaw at 10. Had we had the extra warm-up game I'd have been interested in that experiment, but we now have to accept that it's extremely unlikely that anyone beyond Jackson or Parks will be playing 10 at the WC. CP is the emergency cover there I think.

I'm slightly worried that both Cusiter and Blair are struggling for fitness, and I don't think we should take a player unable to play against Italy (and that goes for Euan Murray as well). There is no player so important to us that we can't do without, and the risk of taking an off-form crock just isn't worth it.

I think Murray needs to mot only re-discover his form of two years ago, but also needs to improve on it in the loose.

Remember he is missing the Sunday matches, so for him to justify a seat on the plane, he has to make up for that choice by being even better than the rest.

I would actually start with Laidlaw at 10, with parks on the bench. We know what Parks can (can not) do, so lets see if we can get our backs going more. With parks we end up in an arm wrestle with the packs, and that is poor tatics against italy (and Argentina). We need the fowards to provide quick ball, with us then earing the right to go wide ( a few crash balls, quick ball, then stretch them)


One thing we also need to do, is learn how to handle the deliberate slwoing down tactics of teams when the ref does not ping it. We suffered badly against Ireland when the ref ignored Cullan's hands all over the ball from our side, but we were not street smart enough to handle it. The best teams can do that. Against Italy it will be a good test. soooooo my team is



1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Hines
5. Kellock
6. Brown
7. Barclay (C)
8. Beattie

9. Cusiter
10. Laidlaw
11. Evans
12. Morrison
13. NDL
14. Danielli
15. R. Lamont

Riskysports wrote:One thing we also need to do, is learn how to handle the deliberate slwoing down tactics of teams when the ref does not ping it. We suffered badly against Ireland when the ref ignored Cullan's hands all over the ball from our side, but we were not street smart enough to handle it. The best teams can do that. Against Italy it will be a good test.

Completely agree on this. It also hit us hard at the last World Cup as well - Albacete in particular seemed able to just cruise round the wrong side and sit on the ball, grabbing dark blue jerseys left right and centre. We may need our scrum half to be captain purely so that he can get in the refs ear each ruck. Robinson should get them looking at videos of Matt Dawson, who consitantly moaned and whined every single time an opposition players bootlace so much as came close to the ball on the floor. We need to be similarly vocal, such that the ref is focused on the issue and penalises it early doors. If the ref is going to allow it, as per Alan Lewis, then we need to be similarly ruthless about infringing, and Kelly Brown et al need to make more of a nuisance of themselves on opposition ball.

I disagree on your Laidlaw idea though. Not with only one game to play before the World Cup.

I have always said I do not like a captain in the backs. Barclay I reckon would be a much better shout at the Scotland captain, he could be the one to complain and bark in the ref’s ear ala McCaw for the Kiwi’s.

Cusiter is too injury prone, Blair is a shell of the man he used to be and Lawson was always considered the third man at the no 9 slot. Kellock I felt did a sterling job and has never let anyone down when he has played for Scotland, but the Hines/Gray combo is arguably our strongest 2nd row pairing. Barlcay is most Scottish posters 1st name on the team sheet although with Ford being declared Vice captain against Ireland, is he perhaps the candidate for the captaincy?

[quote="funnyExiledScot"]

Riskysports wrote:.

I disagree on your Laidlaw idea though. Not with only one game to play before the World Cup.

You have that right

However, my reasoning is that we know we will have a pants backline with Parks and we will 'maybe' get out of the group with him, but have Zero chance of getting past NZ with a negative one dimentional game plan.

We have Laidlaw there as a back up and if he peforms well, then no need to bring parks. If not, then we have the first two games which to bring parks on to get him warmed up

My feeling is we need to go or broke or go home

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I have always said I do not like a captain in the backs. Barclay I reckon would be a much better shout at the Scotland captain, he could be the one to complain and bark in the ref’s ear ala McCaw for the Kiwi’s.

Cusiter is too injury prone, Blair is a shell of the man he used to be and Lawson was always considered the third man at the no 9 slot. Kellock I felt did a sterling job and has never let anyone down when he has played for Scotland, but the Hines/Gray combo is arguably our strongest 2nd row pairing. Barlcay is most Scottish posters 1st name on the team sheet although with Ford being declared Vice captain against Ireland, is he perhaps the candidate for the captaincy?

Nope, too nice, imo

[quote="Riskysports"]

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Riskysports wrote:.

I disagree on your Laidlaw idea though. Not with only one game to play before the World Cup.

You have that right

However, my reasoning is that we know we will have a pants backline with Parks and we will 'maybe' get out of the group with him, but have Zero chance of getting past NZ with a negative one dimentional game plan.

We have Laidlaw there as a back up and if he peforms well, then no need to bring parks. If not, then we have the first two games which to bring parks on to get him warmed up

My feeling is we need to go or broke or go home

+1

I fully agree with what both risky, I don't want us to go to the RWC again and play 10 man rugby.

Italy is a chance to set a presidence and show we are capable of doing more than catapulting our loose forwads into the fringes of the rucks.

Laidlaw starting at 10. I think you're all mad!

Jackson at 10 is plenty going for broke for me.

As for the captaincy question, it really is a tricky one, because there are a number of candidates but no obvious choice. You can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as you pick Barclay, his form will drop and Rennie will play so well that he has to be picked.

Ford is probably the only player in the side (other than Chunk) guaranteed of his spot as well as being located in Scotland (which is clearly helpful for admin purposes). But I agree with ASBO, I'm not sure he's really the right sort of player, and personally I'd rather he focused 100% on his game, which can stray from time to time.

I actually think Sean Lamont would make a great captain, and he'd relish the role. The only issue is that he's not Scottish-based, and AR has stated a preference from having a captain based in Scotland.

I'd probably continue with the current structure, and alternate between the scrum half playing and Kellock. It isn't ideal, and maybe the World Cup will throw up the right man, but at the moment I don't think it's a massive issue having the role shared.

FES I could not disagree more with your comments, McCaw, O’Driscoll, Dusatoire are all talismanic captains who inspire their teams onto better things. Scotland I reckon would really benefit from having a Tallisman like one of these teams who know how to nip in the Ref’s ear and sway some of these 50-50 decisions our way.

Lawson as you said earlier is not Vocal enough, Kellock despite always being reliable is not assured his start. I agree Sean Lamont would make an excellent captain, this idea is reinforced by this article I read in the Scotsman today :

Sean Lamont

I certainly doubt you would find a more passionate player to wear the armband.

The thing is making a player your captain does not make him your "talisman". The players you list are (a) all quite clearly the best players in their positions, and (b) were great players and leaders before they gained the captaincy.

Now I agree, Sean Lamont would be my choice of captain as I stated above. He closest fits both the criteria above. The way he plays the game is exactly the sort of example to set for the other players in the side. Full of power and passion and not constrained by the training manual. All his best stuff is off the cuff and just powering forward.

But if AR is going to insist on the captain being a Scottish-based player, then I think rather than picking the wrong player (and as I said above, neither Ford, Kellock nor Barclay really fit the bill long term for differing reasons), then I'd rather we keep to the current plan.

I would not choose S Lamont for captain, mainly because of his age.

Although, if he was captain for the World Cup, i would not abject

PS - Goofd article though

I wouldn't call Matthew Rees a talisman or Ryan Jones before him.
I guess Wales talismans are Shane Williams and James Hook because their our game breakers. Making your best player the captain doesn't always work and rarely for Wales. If you have a star player, keep as much pressure off him and let him concentrate on his game.

Which is probably why Kellock is an effective captain. He runs the lineout, the players respect him and he has a high workrate. Not a flash player but a consistent one. Trouble is, Gray and Hines in my view are the best playing combination. It may well be that Hines drops out after the WC, in which case the decision is made really, Kellock can captain.

Give Scotland a single playmaker and they will be a VERY dangerous side.

Strong backrow,
Strong locks,
Strong lineouts,
Good defence,
Good outside backs,

However they can't link their forwards to their backs properly.

Cheers Mr Brennan, I think we have 'that' playmaker in Jackson. Yes, he's wet behind the ears but he is our only option until Weir is given his chance. He has got our backs moving on occasion since he's come in and he should be applauded for it.

If Cusiter proves his fitness and those guys get some game time as our first choice half-back pairing I'm confident we will be dangerous (ish). Its just a shame we might not any games to get the partnership right.

If Cusiter doesnt make the Italy game I don't think we can trust him to come in as first choice during the RWC either. That means it will be Rory, whether we like it or not.

On the other hand; goodness knows how Robbo thinks he's going to see enough of Blair and Cusiter to make an informed decision on their fitness by giving them a half each...

It seems a good showing on the training paddock might be enough for some of our final 30. Yikes...

I really hope Robbo isnt using the Georgia or Romania games as further trial matches. That is disrespectful to two good teams and while they might look like kind draws on paper, could just as easily be banana skins if we send unfit, undercooked players out.

Re captain, do we really think Robbo will drop Kellock? I agree that Kellock / Gray are not an ideal pairing but why would Robbo spend the 6 Nations with them as a pairing if he didnt fancy it for the RWC?

Just a less-than-pleasing thought to run past everyone, but are we dreaming about what Robbo will do in the event that Beattie doesn't find his mojo in time? There must be every chance that he'll revert to a previous selection and play Wagga at 6 with Brown movign to no.8, regardless of the fitness & form of Stroks? That could also be his preferred solution over handling prime ball-carrying responsibilities to Denton, whose lack of pro experience must count against him (did I really read that he has played just 7 pro-games, or am I imagining that?)?

Like nick, I don't think we can afford to take either Romania or Georgia for granted, but am optimistic that Robbo won't fall into that trap, and hopefully we'll instead have a game (hastily arranged, possibly behind closed-doors) against a combined pro-district side once the final 30-player squad has been named.

I will weep if Hines plays a single minute of the World Cup at 6.

What is AR's fixation with Hines at 6 ? Is it because he wants Gray, Kellock and Hines on the field at the same time ?

Think it must be, bit more muscle in the pack maybe? But at the cost of speed, handling & offloading skills, groundwork and manoeuvrability?

Have so many thoughts on this but they are superfluous as AR is looking at this game differently to me. So on the assumption he knows his 30 and only wants to confirm a couple of spots I'd take Rugger's team and modify very slightly. Lawson in at Hooker and either Denton or Vernon at No.8.

I feel sorry for Harley, Grant, Cairns and possibly Vernon who have not been able to state a case, however, they are young and 2015 is on for them.

I just cannot get excited about this game right now - be better come Saturday morning.

Boston Exile wrote:I feel sorry for Harley, Grant, Cairns and possibly Vernon who have not been able to state a case, however, they are young and 2015 is on for them.

Of those four I'm fine with Grant and Harley missing out. Grant really hasn't done anything with Glasgow to suggest he's an international class prop, and in my view is keeping the jersey warm until Jon Welsh finds form again. Harley has had a great breakthrough season and is one for the future, but his form dipped towards the end of the season and at the moment there are two better and more experienced players in his position.

I agree though that Cairns and Vernon are unlucky. Although Cairns is not a physical 13, we have some pretty physical players at 12 and on the wings, so personally I don't think balance is the issue. What Cairns would do is pick lines off Morrison probably better than any other player in the squad, and not only that, he's not nearly as myopic as some of the other options in the squad once the break has been made. He's got the footwork and pace to cause problems once he's through the gap, and is no stranger to finding support either. I wouldn't go as far to say he should definitely be in the squad, Ansbro, Evans and NDL are all good players, but he should have at least been given an opportunity by now. Vernon has been eclipsed by Denton's late charge in the Edinburgh jersey, and can consider himself unfortunate. Denton's brief cameo against Ireland wasn't a success, and I can't help but feel that AR may have overlooked Vernon, especially given this offloading style that seems to have found favour. Vernon is at least as fast as most of our backs, and makes breaks from unconventional positions. We could work a lethal number 8 pick-up routine with Vernon at 8. I like the look of Denton, but perhaps his call-up was slightly premature. He hasn't yet completed 10 games of professional rugby, whereas Vernon has been around a while now. In that position experience is important.

8 is a position of strength for us. There is always the possibility that 8 is a position Beattie will retain as time goes on and his test strength and rustiness wears off. Brown is also very capable of slotting into 8 to no detriment to the blind side position with Strok able to slip in and Hines *sigh* perhaps able to offer a close approximation of cover.

Weighing up our options as such a third no 8 may not be needed. Beattie is the player I’m sure we all want to see back at his best, IMO he was Scotland’s best player by a considerable distance in our backrow from the 2010 season that was flooded with talent. His recovery from his operation has been a much bumpier road than he must have expected and I would suggest psychological recovery will take longer than they physical one.

I thought Beattie played very well against Ireland, carried well but perhaps the rustiness showed up when he failed to recognise his support runners.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:8 is a position of strength for us. There is always the possibility that 8 is a position Beattie will retain as time goes on and his test strength and rustiness wears off. Brown is also very capable of slotting into 8 to no detriment to the blind side position with Strok able to slip in and Hines *sigh* perhaps able to offer a close approximation of cover.

Weighing up our options as such a third no 8 may not be needed. Beattie is the player I’m sure we all want to see back at his best, IMO he was Scotland’s best player by a considerable distance in our backrow from the 2010 season that was flooded with talent. His recovery from his operation has been a much bumpier road than he must have expected and I would suggest psychological recovery will take longer than they physical one.

I thought Beattie played very well against Ireland, carried well but perhaps the rustiness showed up when he failed to recognise his support runners.

Radge, agreed, he is our best ball carrier, imo, by some distance. I thought vs Ireland he showed glimpses of getting back close ot his best, but then was also occasionally guilty of making mistakes too, as you suggest - failing to recognise support runners, not even looking for them, not taking the right option. But I remain hopeful that with game time, the mental recovery will come along apace - so perhaps we will see him back at 8 this weekend?

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Think it must be, bit more muscle in the pack maybe? But at the cost of speed, handling & offloading skills, groundwork and manoeuvrability?

That would be a really poor decision. The biggest error Scotland can possibly make is to try and out muscle teams, Scotland have been trying to do that to Wales for the last 10 years and failed badly, sometimes catastrophically. Scotland really should be a World Class team because their natural game is a quick rucking game, they have always been good at it. Take the ball in, ground it, clear out, and unleash the backs quickly, before the defence can reset and organize. The laws of the modern game practically had Scotland in mind when they were created.

Wales and Scotland suffer the same kind of problem, whilst there is national interest in the nation, there is little local interest in the professional club sides, but luckily for Wales it isn't so bad that it effects the rugby in the country. Wales also doesn't have a professional football league to compete against, all our major clubs play in the English system.

AlynDavies wrote:
Though I will add I think England would destroy Scotland in any place outside of Murrayfield, simply because of their physical power. Scotland will not be able to contain England in the way Wales did.

Really? In the match at Twickenham this year there was only 6 points between the teams. 1 try apiece. And the less said about the refereeing of Mr Romain Poite the better...
Plus when it comes to the game in New Zealand I reckon on Scotland getting a lot of support from the locals against England

Rightly or wrongly I don't think we will see Beattie at 8 guys. I have a suspicion Vernon will get a chance with Denton on the bench.

Robbo rates Beattie, as we all do, and has him in his ideal starting 15. But I bet he gives Vernon a fair go.

I agree that Beattie needs game time but this scenario was always going to happen with two real warm up games.

I also agree with everyone who says Brown should be our back-up 8, but I think Robbo will value Vernon's versatility. Which could be bad news for Stroks.

Beattie has had his chance. Personally I think he's done enough to travel. Then its down to the forwards/backs split, whether Big Euge travels as a 5th prop.

I reckon it'll be one from Stroks and Vernon. Rennie and the Killer B's are all certs to travel in my opinion.

Nickj - you are a prophet. Apart from Denton not being on the bench, looks like you were spot on. Vernon starts, Beattie clearly already done enough so not even included on the bench.

SO the team has been announced...

Scotland: R Lamont (Toulon), M Evans (Castres), N De Luca (Edinburgh), G Morrison (Glasgow Warriors), S Danielli (Ulster), D Parks (Cardiff Blues), M Blair (Edinburgh), A Dickinson (Sale Sharks), S Lawson (Gloucester), M Low (Glasgow Warriors), N Hines (Clermont Ferrand), A Kellock (Glasgow Warriors), K Brown (Saracens), R Vernon (Sale Sharks), J Barclay (Glasgow Warriors)

Replacements: D Hall (Glasgow Warriors), E Murray (Newcastle Falcons), R Gray (Glasgow Warriors), R Rennie (Edinburgh), C Cusiter (Glasgow Warriors), R Jackson (Glasgow Warriors), N Walker (Ospreys)


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I worry about the front row but then again, it's a good chance for the guys to stake their claims. With Lawson playing, I wonder how many three pointers Italy will kick!

Will be good to see Lamont in action again.....just hope he doesn't get injured.

To be honest, apart from the front row, it's a pretty decent team.

Dare I say we have a wee bit of strength in depth?

Prediction:

Scotland 19 - 12 Italy

Wow. Has Robbo been logging on?

Hope this means Euan Murray and Chris Cusiter are 'truly' fit.

So chuffed to see Rory Lamont getting a shot!

In all very excited and cant wait to see how we go.

Just hope Parks and Blair play well for 50 and then give way to Cusiter and Jackson.

Parks will be on the plane, Blair might not, btu Cus needs game time!

Good to see Walker getting a place on the bench, his injury wasnt too bad after all then.

Like Lamont at FB. He's a threat running into the line which is something we really lack. Very disappointed to see Dan Parks back but I guess it was unrealistic to think he'd be dropped. Would love to see Murray get back to his pre Lions form. he hasn't been a force at all since he left Saints.

Just had a closer look, does this Laidlaw has missed the cut?

Must admit I'm a bit disappointed, I just hope Mike plays a blinder, and allows Cus enough time in the second half.

Does anyone hold out any hope that Denton or Cuthbert will make the cut now?

Or are they going home with Cairns, Grant and Harley?

By the way does anyone think we have only got two games because none of the other 6 Nations unions thought having us come to play was a big enough cash cow?

Looks like this is more of a trial than was expected of AR. Sure he still knows the 30 he wants to take but he's checking out nearly all the options. Pleased Vernon is being given his chance, hope he does well as his versatility and speed could be more than useful. Bit worried about Hooker in fact against the Italians make that the front row, but if Ford gets injured we need to be able to cope. Back 5 will be mobile and strong at the lineout (if Hookers throw well). The backs have some speed and think we are in for a game similar to the last 6N encounter. Where is Laidlaw?

nickj wrote:Just had a closer look, does this Laidlaw has missed the cut?

Must admit I'm a bit disappointed, I just hope Mike plays a blinder, and allows Cus enough time in the second half.

Does anyone hold out any hope that Denton or Cuthbert will make the cut now?

Or are they going home with Cairns, Grant and Harley?

By the way does anyone think we have only got two games because none of the other 6 Nations unions thought having us come to play was a big enough cash cow?

nick, I reckon that Robbo has tried to remain true to his word to the 34-odd players that he believes are truly in the mix by giving them all gametime - can't say I get it myself, but there you go

I think it's pretty clear that Denton and Cuthbert are out, barring injuries to Vernon and R Lamont.

I'd have liked to see Laidlaw play, but Cusiter and Blair were promised time to prove themselves, and AR has been true to that. Both will have to play very very well to convince me that Laidlaw shouldn't go. Personally I'd treat this as a play-off between Blair and Cusiter, and give them 40 minutes each.

I think the two game strategy was partly influenced by our fixtures. We start with Romania and Georgia. Had we had England first up, I think we'd have had at least an extra fixture (which is exactly what England have done starting with Argentina). It's swings and roundabouts really. Had we played the extra game and Ford or Gray been injured, I'm sure we'd be less keen on the idea. Personally I think we're a game short, not so much for "warm-up" purposes, but really more that I think it would have been better to see Denton, Laidlaw etc. play a full game.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I think it's pretty clear that Denton and Cuthbert are out, barring injuries to Vernon and R Lamont.

I'd have liked to see Laidlaw play, but Cusiter and Blair were promised time to prove themselves, and AR has been true to that. Both will have to play very very well to convince me that Laidlaw shouldn't go. Personally I'd treat this as a play-off between Blair and Cusiter, and give them 40 minutes each.

I think the two game strategy was partly influenced by our fixtures. We start with Romania and Georgia. Had we had England first up, I think we'd have had at least an extra fixture (which is exactly what England have done starting with Argentina). It's swings and roundabouts really. Had we played the extra game and Ford or Gray been injured, I'm sure we'd be less keen on the idea. Personally I think we're a game short, not so much for "warm-up" purposes, but really more that I think it would have been better to see Denton, Laidlaw etc. play a full game.

The same logic might apply to Vernon too, so perhaps Denton & Cuthbert (where are Dibble and Grubb?) aren't out?

I thought Cuthbert was pretty rough against Ireland and he had at least 50 minutes and quite a bit of ball to do something. He looked raw and inexperienced - which he is.

Denton was worse. Looked startled each time he got the ball and made no impact whatsoever. Given that was his 8th professional rugby appearance and he won't now get another opportunity, it would be utterly daft to take that gamble. Had he been in contention, I'm sure he'd be on the bench ahead of Rennie (who had more time against Ireland and has already proven himself).

I'm actually quite pleased to see Vernon back. He fits the style we're trying to play, he has 11 caps and a couple of seasons under his belt. I was initially excited about Denton, but it's too soon and he just hasn't had the chance to prove himself (not entirely his fault).

I'm moving towards suggesting we take 6 back row players and only 4 props, unless Murray Low has a total nightmare against Italy.

Said on GC's thread (not in international section) that this is very similar to teams of the past. Very happy with back 5 forwards and back 3 backs. What concerns me are the frailties in the front row , at half-back and IC. Those weaknesses have cost us before and they need to play well or else Italy can give us a black eye. I think they will because of what is at stake but the exposure is there.

Confidence in Blair/Parks is shakey, Morrison has his limitations, yet we need to get the ball quickly through these 3 to unleash what looks to be an otherwise capable back division.

Up front we should get plenty of lineout and breakdown ball but the Italians will be relishing scrum time. Will see what impact Murray can make when he inevitably comes on.

Those guys need to step up and show their pride in the jersey.

BTW - I think Scotland by 9.

Hope you are on the money with that Boston. My concern is with AR's first HB pairing. Surely it would be better to start with Cusiter/Jackson - get the backs going, then some tries (!). Then control the game with Blair and DD and freeze out the tiring Italian forwards. Or am I being niaive on this ?