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Wales v England Official Match Thread

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Post by RubyGuby Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:32 pm

It's 5th v 4th in the World Rankings on Sat. and a real opportunity for 1 of these sides to put another marker down in their development - These games now have even greater significance given that we share the same RWC Pool in 2015 - The fact that Wales have won the last 2 meetings between these old foes will count for nothing - It should be Awesome . thumbsup

Good luck to both teams and both sets of fans thumbsup




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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:37 pm

Should be a cracker - looking forward to it already (probably more than the Scotland game!).

Fingers crossed for a decent game with as little ref impact as possible, and no injuries to potential Lions!!

Other than that I'm hoping for an England win, purely so Scotland can beat France and finish second in the table.....

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Post by RubyGuby Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:38 pm

Scotland finish 2nd Erm

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Post by thebluesmancometh Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:41 pm

Really, Wales v England official match thread started 1pm Wednesday???

I think I'll look for another 'official' match thread on saturday, or maybe I'll just go to the game instead.

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Post by RubyGuby Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:42 pm

This one is the official sponsors thread beware of imitations thumbsup

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Post by thebluesmancometh Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:44 pm

RubyGuby wrote:This one is the official sponsors thread beware of imitations thumbsup

Your the official Wales England match thread sponsor?

If Carlsberg did threads...

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Post by Casartelli Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:51 pm

The carnival atmosphere is already starting to build.

The WRU have even spent £50k on bringing 'urban street artists' (whatever that is!) down from the valleys to enhance the subways of our beautiful nation's capital with their colourful folk-art interpretation of rugby culture.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/view?q=maesteg+mafia&psc=G&filter=1#5854395400109900722

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Post by mikey_philVIII Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:52 pm

Casartelli wrote:The carnival atmosphere is already starting to build.

The WRU have even spent £50k on bringing 'urban street artists' (whatever that is!) down from the valleys to enhance the subways of our beautiful nation's capital with their colourful folk-art interpretation of rugby culture.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/view?q=maesteg+mafia&psc=G&filter=1#5854395400109900722

Laugh

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Post by thebluesmancometh Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:57 pm

mikey_philVIII wrote:
Casartelli wrote:The carnival atmosphere is already starting to build.

The WRU have even spent £50k on bringing 'urban street artists' (whatever that is!) down from the valleys to enhance the subways of our beautiful nation's capital with their colourful folk-art interpretation of rugby culture.

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/view?q=maesteg+mafia&psc=G&filter=1#5854395400109900722

Laugh

Maybe they'll get more inventive...

http://www.funnyordie.com/slideshows/3ff8117a32/signs-improved-by-graffiti#slide1

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 13 Mar 2013, 6:44 pm

I haven't been to Cardiff since the ireland game and that is not my kind of Tag.

Hardly Banksy is it...!


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Post by 100%beefy Wed 13 Mar 2013, 7:19 pm

I am worried both sides will do what Wales and Scotland did...i.e. scared to lose, play for penalties.
I just hope Wales come out hell for leather and bust some nuts in the first 15 as opposed to being half asleep!
And the pen count worries me, the surface will be (surprise) shoite and if Wlash is as contrary as he usually is he will decide pre game who was better at scrum time
But is it me or is the Welsh camp more confident than the other one

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 13 Mar 2013, 8:24 pm

100%beefy wrote:I am worried both sides will do what Wales and Scotland did...i.e. scared to lose, play for penalties.
I just hope Wales come out hell for leather and bust some nuts in the first 15 as opposed to being half asleep!
And the pen count worries me, the surface will be (surprise) shoite and if Wlash is as contrary as he usually is he will decide pre game who was better at scrum time
But is it me or is the Welsh camp more confident than the other one

Beefy I think the ref was more responsible for the way the last game went rather than the players of either team.

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Post by Morgannwg Wed 13 Mar 2013, 8:28 pm

I would actually put half of the blame down to Clancy, Joubert and Barnes this year. Only Owens and Walsh can hold themselves in high esteem. Poite has been... inbetween I reckon.
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Post by wales606 Thu 14 Mar 2013, 12:01 am

Walesonline are saying that Gethin will captain Wales if fit, and that Launchbury is out for England, with Parling and Lawes set to start.
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Post by Morgannwg Thu 14 Mar 2013, 12:10 am

I haven't been impressed with him as captain in the past. It's never good to select a prop as captain given the amount of 'penalties' prop forwards can give away at the scrums. I was looking forward to seeing James go against Cole too. Launchbury is a big loss for England. Lawes IMO is a poor blindside flanker playing in the 2nd row.
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Post by Cowshot Thu 14 Mar 2013, 12:44 am

Hmm. The more you look at this, the worse it seems to get from an England point of view. Still, I haven't written us off yet.

This is what the 6Ns are about for me: What a prize if we can go to the Millenium Stadium and take the Slam! It's the sort of game you dream of as a lad Smile

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Post by gavstar Thu 14 Mar 2013, 3:09 am

funny, went on the wales on line survey for your 15 for the game, i went for gethin as capt, mainly because awj just back, sam will need his head on for this one, but i also went for half p on the wing and byrne at full back, silly me i know , just wanted to f=== up the votes really !!!!!!!!

jpr is calling for hook at 10, double page spread in national press, jpr played in the 70's and he's still there, games moved on , we may not like it but thats the way it is. he still thinks that changing one person can change the game plan. thinks hook would be allowed to play just as he would like, no.

follow the game plan or on yer bike!!!!!!!!! good luck guys..........9points????

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 14 Mar 2013, 8:23 am

If Launchbury is out I hope they've had Ed Slater training with the squad. Only player close to a like for like replacement, be an improvement on Lawes as well.

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Post by sickofwendy Thu 14 Mar 2013, 8:25 am

Continuity calls for botha Sad

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2013, 8:32 am

If they're going for Jenkins as captain, then it'll be Warburton and Tipuric in the back row and we'll be going all out for turnovers. I can see the logic, but our scrum has been one of the major positives this Six Nations and dropping Paul James weakens our scrum. England's scrum isn't weak - there's never been a weak England scrum - but it's no juggernaut and we should be targeting it.

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 14 Mar 2013, 8:53 am

AWJ for captain is a very good choice. I can't see warburton being given the role after the freedom he played with without it last week. I am not sure whether Jenkins will start or be benched.

Apparently Farrell is back for England, good goal kicker, otherwise I don't think he makes much difference.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:01 am

Farrell's good, but he was getting involved in the niggly stuff against France (which I hadn't seen him do before) and he didn't have a great game. I had thought that he was a player you couldn't really get at, but maybe I was wrong.

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Post by Casartelli Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:03 am

gavstar wrote:funny, went on the wales on line survey for your 15 for the game, i went for gethin as capt, mainly because awj just back, sam will need his head on for this one, but i also went for half p on the wing and byrne at full back, silly me i know , just wanted to f=== up the votes really !!!!!!!!

jpr is calling for hook at 10, double page spread in national press, jpr played in the 70's and he's still there, games moved on , we may not like it but thats the way it is. he still thinks that changing one person can change the game plan. thinks hook would be allowed to play just as he would like, no.

follow the game plan or on yer bike!!!!!!!!! good luck guys..........9points????

JPR, what a guy.

Hook would still offer more than Biggar, even with Bishbosh tactics, as he hoofs the ball a mile and covers a lot of ground in scrambling defence - but it's all irrelevant now. Biggar is becoming a solid international and Hook was consigned to the role of utility cover long, long ago.

Always great to hear the opinion of the 70s legends though. Ale RedWine Whisky

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:08 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Farrell's good, but he was getting involved in the niggly stuff against France (which I hadn't seen him do before) and he didn't have a great game. I had thought that he was a player you couldn't really get at, but maybe I was wrong.

I've seen it a few times gets involved in very silly stuff, he is definitely more in the Ashton, Hartley mould than the Dan Cole Joe Launchbury type.


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Post by maestegmafia Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:10 am

Casartelli wrote:
gavstar wrote:funny, went on the wales on line survey for your 15 for the game, i went for gethin as capt, mainly because awj just back, sam will need his head on for this one, but i also went for half p on the wing and byrne at full back, silly me i know , just wanted to f=== up the votes really !!!!!!!!
X
jpr is calling for hook at 10, double page spread in national press, jpr played in the 70's and he's still there, games moved on , we may not like it but thats the way it is. he still thinks that changing one person can change the game plan. thinks hook would be allowed to play just as he would like, no.

follow the game plan or on yer bike!!!!!!!!! good luck guys..........9points????

JPR, what a guy.

Hook would still offer more than Biggar, even with Bishbosh tactics, as he hoofs the ball a mile and covers a lot of ground in scrambling defence - but it's all irrelevant now. Biggar is becoming a solid international and Hook was consigned to the role of utility cover long, long ago.

Always great to hear the opinion of the 70s legends though. Ale RedWine Whisky

Why all the childlike little pictures of bottles? Are you inferring that all the seventies legends were drunks or that they are now?

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Post by t1000advancedprototype Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:10 am

Biggar's confidence grows with every game. Biggar was instrumental in 2 playoff wins in 2 years vs Leinster.

What has Hook done lately? How much international rugby has he played lately? Ridiculous call.

However, Wales must go for more tries on Saturday if they want to win by 7+

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Post by Casartelli Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:14 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Casartelli wrote:
gavstar wrote:funny, went on the wales on line survey for your 15 for the game, i went for gethin as capt, mainly because awj just back, sam will need his head on for this one, but i also went for half p on the wing and byrne at full back, silly me i know , just wanted to f=== up the votes really !!!!!!!!
X
jpr is calling for hook at 10, double page spread in national press, jpr played in the 70's and he's still there, games moved on , we may not like it but thats the way it is. he still thinks that changing one person can change the game plan. thinks hook would be allowed to play just as he would like, no.

follow the game plan or on yer bike!!!!!!!!! good luck guys..........9points????

JPR, what a guy.

Hook would still offer more than Biggar, even with Bishbosh tactics, as he hoofs the ball a mile and covers a lot of ground in scrambling defence - but it's all irrelevant now. Biggar is becoming a solid international and Hook was consigned to the role of utility cover long, long ago.

Always great to hear the opinion of the 70s legends though. Ale RedWine Whisky

Why all the childlike little pictures of bottles? Are you inferring that all the seventies legends were drunks or that they are now?

You're inferring. I'm implying.

Do you think Biggar could be the man to wind up Farrell? He's calmed down a lot - but I wonder if he still has the ability to annoy?

Could be a valid tactic, given Farrell's apparent petulance.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:16 am

Cas, the problem is if we focus on Farell, we'll take our eye off Ben Youngs, who can be lightning around the fringes.


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Post by maestegmafia Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:17 am

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Biggar's confidence grows with every game. Biggar was instrumental in 2 playoff wins in 2 years vs Leinster.

What has Hook done lately? How much international rugby has he played lately? Ridiculous call.

However, Wales must go for more tries on Saturday if they want to win by 7+

Biggar struggles to get a backline moving, something that Hook does much better.if we want tries, Biggar is too conservative. He likes to kick too much.

Biggar has improved dramatically but he is still a conservative that can't see 50% of the opportunities to exploit that other fly halves can.

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Post by Casartelli Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:17 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Cas, the problem is if we focus on Farell, we'll take our eye of Ben Youngs, who can be lightning around the fringes.

Nah, he's terrified of Mike Phillips.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:20 am

If I was English, I'd be trying to wind up Mike Phillips. He's angry before the game's even kicked off. If he can be drawn into that kind of thing, his service suffers even further.

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:21 am

Casartelli wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Casartelli wrote:
gavstar wrote:funny, went on the wales on line survey for your 15 for the game, i went for gethin as capt, mainly because awj just back, sam will need his head on for this one, but i also went for half p on the wing and byrne at full back, silly me i know , just wanted to f=== up the votes really !!!!!!!!
X
jpr is calling for hook at 10, double page spread in national press, jpr played in the 70's and he's still there, games moved on , we may not like it but thats the way it is. he still thinks that changing one person can change the game plan. thinks hook would be allowed to play just as he would like, no.

follow the game plan or on yer bike!!!!!!!!! good luck guys..........9points????

JPR, what a guy.

Hook would still offer more than Biggar, even with Bishbosh tactics, as he hoofs the ball a mile and covers a lot of ground in scrambling defence - but it's all irrelevant now. Biggar is becoming a solid international and Hook was consigned to the role of utility cover long, long ago.

Always great to hear the opinion of the 70s legends though. Ale RedWine Whisky

Why all the childlike little pictures of bottles? Are you inferring that all the seventies legends were drunks or that they are now?

You're inferring. I'm implying.

Do you think Biggar could be the man to wind up Farrell? He's calmed down a lot - but I wonder if he still has the ability to annoy?

Could be a valid tactic, given Farrell's apparent petulance.



Why are you implying all the 70s legends are or were drunks? Rather disrespectful of some fantastic rugby players. Does this apply to all form Welsh rugby players or just the famous ones from the seventies?

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Post by RubyGuby Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:22 am

This game is going to be a Punt and Catch fest. I'm worried about this as I think England have a good Punt in most positions, particular;ly in the backs where Farrell in particular excels in this area. His temperament however might be suspect and I hope Warburton can say hello early on thumbsup

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Post by Casartelli Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:24 am

"Why are you implying all the 70s legends are or were drunks? Rather disrespectful of some fantastic rugby players. Does this apply to all form Welsh rugby players or just the famous ones from the seventies?"

Just the ones who wrote autobiographies or have given interviews where they talk about drinking vast quantities of alcohol.

Back on topic Maes - do you think the stage is set for Biggar to make another step up? Now he has a few 6N starts under his belt.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:25 am

We need to go wide early. Ashton's a weakness in defence and Brown's not a winger. If you know the oppostion have a weakness, then for chuff's sake target it. I remember the 2005 game where Shane Williams went up to Tom Shanklin and told him that there was space wide all the time - you could see from the overhead shots that he was right - but Shanklin never gave him the ball and it ended up being a close game.

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Post by Casartelli Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:28 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We need to go wide early. Ashton's a weakness in defence and Brown's not a winger. If you know the oppostion have a weakness, then for chuff's sake target it.

Totally agree. North and Cuthbert virtually guaranteed to make metres one-on-one against their opposite numbers.

Bet you a million pounds we don't even attempt it. (Unless the clock is at 78 mins and we're 15+ points down).

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Post by maestegmafia Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:29 am

Casartelli wrote:"Why are you implying all the 70s legends are or were drunks? Rather disrespectful of some fantastic rugby players. Does this apply to all form Welsh rugby players or just the famous ones from the seventies?"

Just the ones who wrote autobiographies or have given interviews where they talk about drinking vast quantities of alcohol.

"Rugby player drinks beers shocker"...? That is a moronic point to make. Why would you reflect on well respected and admired former players as being drunks...?


Casartelli wrote:Back on topic Maes - do you think the stage is set for Biggar to make another step up? Now he has a few 6N starts under his belt.

Biggar will be a squad player at best, he is only in the welsh squad as injury cover for better players.

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Post by RubyGuby Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:30 am

I would prefer the chip over the top and the kick to the wingers as the England defence will come up quick and if we pass we will get intercepted - Bout time we saw some subtlety thumbsup

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:31 am

If I was England I'd be putting in chips and grubbers behind our midfield.

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Post by Casartelli Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:33 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Casartelli wrote:"Why are you implying all the 70s legends are or were drunks? Rather disrespectful of some fantastic rugby players. Does this apply to all form Welsh rugby players or just the famous ones from the seventies?"

Just the ones who wrote autobiographies or have given interviews where they talk about drinking vast quantities of alcohol.

"Rugby player drinks beers shocker"...? That is a moronic point to make. Why would you reflect on well respected and admired former players as being drunks...?

Sorry Maes.

Gavstar started it!

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:37 am

Stuart Lancaster names his team at 10.15. That gives Howley a few hours to assess it and tweak his own selection if necessary.

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Post by Big Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:41 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Apparently Farrell is back for England, good goal kicker, otherwise I don't think he makes much difference.

I think the biggest difference is in open play, arguably Farrell is better at kicking from hand and Flood better at running it (though he needs the backs outside him to be on the same wavelength if we are to get any benefit from that).

Formerly known as Sam - I can't see someone like Slater coming in. Consistency demands that rather than getting the next best <insert relevant position> in, we just bump somebody else across and hope they can do a job. Lancaster may well assume that Croft can cover both lock and back row. If we end up with no proper 8, and only one proper lock we could really suffer for that in the latter stages. Add that to the fact that we only have one proper wing, and he's badly out of form, and I'd say things look less than brilliant.

England definite underdogs for this one.


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Post by Jimpy Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:47 am

A few areas we have to look at.

The scrum: Adam Jones is back to his best which makes him the best Tight head in the NH. Dan Cole is good and better round the loose but is second best in the scrum. So will Gethin Jenkins be able to get more out of Cole than Marler/Vunenipola get out of Jones? My money is on Jones.

At fly-half Farrell is the better game manager without question. The back rows are pretty even. I think the Welsh are better round the park and at
turnover but the English have better ball carrying abilities especially with Ryan jones injured. The 2nd row is shaded by England with their more dynamic ability. At 9 its even stevens, since Phillips return to form (or should that be fitness).

Centres - all 4 are bish bosh so even again. Back three. Wales have the power men with Halfpenny providing the boot. England are a bit short of form with Ashton being suspect in defence against big guys. He needs a good game to make it on the Lion's tour.

Pretty even game I reckon with Cool Hand Owen's boot making the difference.

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Post by englandglory4ever Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:00 am

Watched the win over NZ again yesterday. (Never get tired of it). The England pack were outstanding. However, notable absentees for the Wales game could/would be Corbs, Morgan and Launchbury. All played extremely well against NZ. So England are likely to be a much weaker proposition than they were last December. Especially if they play the lightweight Croft. (Hope not). He just wears out the grass on the wings.

If England do go on to win this one then Wales will be a pretty weak team IMO.

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Post by Portnoy's Complaint Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:02 am

What England needs to do is not force the pace. That has been at the nub of their increasingly disappointing 6Ns imo.

They don't have anything to prove in terms of glittering performances - just the W in the column.

Own the ball and let the pens come. Subdue the crowd. Get a lead and let the tries come.

It's not rocket science and neither is it Barnham & Bailey.
Just a matter of working within the team's capability and the result will deal with itself.

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Post by Jimpy Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:03 am

englandglory4ever wrote:Watched the win over NZ again yesterday. (Never get tired of it). The England pack were outstanding. However, notable absentees for the Wales game could/would be Corbs, Morgan and Launchbury. All played extremely well against NZ. So England are likely to be a much weaker proposition than they were last December. Especially if they play the lightweight Croft. (Hope not). He just wears out the grass on the wings.
If England do go on to win this one then Wales will be a pretty weak team IMO.

You're joking!

He's one of the best three-quarters England have had for a decade.

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Post by t1000advancedprototype Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:12 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If I was English, I'd be trying to wind up Mike Phillips. He's angry before the game's even kicked off. If he can be drawn into that kind of thing, his service suffers even further.

Wind up Phillips at your peril. He's a bigger game changer than North, Tips or Warburton. Especially in huge games.

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Post by fa0019 Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:12 am

Wales have been quite strong in the pack over the last few games... enabling them to go forward and get their backs moving.
England should be a more sterner test for the Welsh pack and the backs will certainly see less ball then they have done (which is vital given the attacker prowess of North and Cuthbert).

I do think replacing Jones with Tipuric would be a mistake. They lose a lot of bulk, ball carrying, lineout options and tackling in Jones. For Wales to weaken their pack (injury forced accepted) against a team who is better than those they have played thus far will be costly.
2 opensides could dominate the breakdown yes... but if you're going backwards and struggling upfront then you could have 8 opensides and it wouldn't make a difference.

Is Coombs the next best option Wales have?


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Post by lostinwales Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:15 am

Croft will be the best lineout forward on display. He probably has more pace than anyone else in the two teams. He runs all day and is quite capable of proving people wrong on what he does on the ground and in the tight. He is a very useful player to have

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Post by fa0019 Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:18 am

t1000advancedprototype wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:If I was English, I'd be trying to wind up Mike Phillips. He's angry before the game's even kicked off. If he can be drawn into that kind of thing, his service suffers even further.

Wind up Phillips at your peril. He's a bigger game changer than North, Tips or Warburton. Especially in huge games.

Actually I think winding up Phillips or getting into his face would be a good idea. Put him under pressure and he will do what he does naturally, come out and fight which means he will carry more then unleash his backline... something I think England should be more worried about.

Keeping front foot ball out of the Welsh 3/4 will be key to England's success.

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