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Cook, Best After Bradman

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alfie
mystiroakey
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Post by Stella Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:35 pm

Now, I think Cook is a great, dogged player but best after Bradman? McCullum is playing the public relation card, isn't he?
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:45 pm

Believe he said on "current" form, which has been misconstrued by the media as per usual

Cook has got the potential to be one of the greats though
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Post by Stella Wed 13 Mar 2013, 1:48 pm

Olly wrote:Believe he said on "current" form, which has been misconstrued by the media as per usual

Cook has got the potential to be one of the greats though

Yeah, just re-read it, but even that's being very shall we say nice.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 13 Mar 2013, 2:15 pm

Oh yeah Stella haha!

Cookie is class though, really progressed over the past couple of years. If he stays injury free he's gonna break all the English records in the batting department
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Post by Stella Wed 13 Mar 2013, 2:36 pm

Yep, he will have most runs, tons, and probably an average of 50 to boot, though, not sure he will ever be classed as a great like Lara, Tendulkar and a few others. If he continues like this though then maybe, but there have been loads of players over the years who have had purple patches like Cook's. But, like I say, if he's still scoring like this in a few years time, then I will have to re-consider Very Happy
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Post by msp83 Wed 13 Mar 2013, 3:14 pm

Keep that Bradman bit aside, but Alastair Cook is a very fine player. Not yet a great, but a potential one at that.
He needs to do some work on attaining greater consistency in seaming conditions, he's someone who really turned around his ODI batting style so very well, I am sure he can do this as well.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2013, 3:31 pm

Cook will end up with more Test tons than Tendulkar, and it will be a far superior achievement because:

1) He doesn't play on flat decks at home
2) He opens the batting

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Post by bradman99.94 Wed 13 Mar 2013, 4:51 pm

I completely agree; he is the next best to me Cool

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Post by Guest Wed 13 Mar 2013, 4:55 pm

I read it as McCullum saying 'where he is in his career right now' - meaning, to date, he's the 2nd best batsman ever. High praise indeed.

Cooky is already joint 17th in the all-time century lists. He's the youngest player ever to pass 7,000 test runs. With no injuries and a modicum of form, he has 13 tests remaining in 2013 and one at the start of 2014 (the 5th Ashes test in Sydney).

Let's say he averages a modest 40.00 over those 14 tests, meaning that his total career test runs will be about 8,300 - 21st all time. And that's with a modest average over the year. If he gets a 60 average this year, he passes Graham Gooch as England's all-time run scorer and goes 12th all-time. (all this assuming Smith doesn't score many of course)

And if Cooky gets, say, 6 centuries in those 14 Tests - quite possible on current form - he'd go joint 9th all-time.

And the guy will only be 29 at that point, with 4/5 years of top cricket to come, possibly as many as 6/7 years. Imagine 7 years of 1,000 runs scored - that's behind only Sachin. And 4 centuries a year = 28, plus the 24 he's on now = 52, one more than the Little Master.

Cook is well-placed to entrench himself as one of the all-time batting greats, no question. I just hope he CAN.

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Post by Biltong Wed 13 Mar 2013, 5:15 pm

Cook will be up there with Tendulkar's figures when he retires, but in that class as well.

Nobody will ever average 100
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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Wed 13 Mar 2013, 6:22 pm

Well azzy with all such stats just a stats only. But looking at the current form cook surely is at his best now. May be there are many best yet to come from his bat. With 8 to 9 years of cricket he is surely going to break many of the records, we may hope at the end of 2020 he may hold the record of most no. of centuries.
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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Wed 13 Mar 2013, 6:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:Cook will end up with more Test tons than Tendulkar, and it will be a far superior achievement because:

1) He doesn't play on flat decks at home
2) He opens the batting
Duty I hope you don't mean the first point for tendy. He,has scored brilliant hundreds all round the world.
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Post by Duty281 Wed 13 Mar 2013, 7:14 pm

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Cook will end up with more Test tons than Tendulkar, and it will be a far superior achievement because:

1) He doesn't play on flat decks at home
2) He opens the batting
Duty I hope you don't mean the first point for tendy. He,has scored brilliant hundreds all round the world.

Well I do actually. 22 of his 51 Test Hundreds have come in India (notoriously flat), and a further 10 have come in games against Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, with another one in Pakistan. Meaning just 18 tons outside the subcontinent.

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Post by Guest Wed 13 Mar 2013, 7:19 pm

have to say I think Cook will be better than Tendulkar...and many indian legends of the game feel that Dravid was better than Sachin as well.

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Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 Wed 13 Mar 2013, 7:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Cook will end up with more Test tons than Tendulkar, and it will be a far superior achievement because:

1) He doesn't play on flat decks at home
2) He opens the batting
Duty I hope you don't mean the first point for tendy. He,has scored brilliant hundreds all round the world.

Well I do actually. 22 of his 51 Test Hundreds have come in India (notoriously flat), and a further 10 have come in games against Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, with another one in Pakistan. Meaning just 18 tons outside the subcontinent.

Well than must say that flat pitches are the toughest to play test cricket on becuz both england and australia(supposed to be the best in the world) have managed to win only one test series in india in last 30 yrs. Aus in 2004 & eng in 2012. And if tendy have scored centuries on the toughest track than surely he iz d best.
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Post by ShankyCricket Wed 13 Mar 2013, 7:55 pm

Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Cook will end up with more Test tons than Tendulkar, and it will be a far superior achievement because:

1) He doesn't play on flat decks at home
2) He opens the batting
Duty I hope you don't mean the first point for tendy. He,has scored brilliant hundreds all round the world.

Well I do actually. 22 of his 51 Test Hundreds have come in India (notoriously flat), and a further 10 have come in games against Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, with another one in Pakistan. Meaning just 18 tons outside the subcontinent.
That post of yours just betrays a lack of understanding of the game. You really don't watch anything other than England matches, do you?

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Post by Pal Joey Wed 13 Mar 2013, 8:57 pm

Biltong wrote:Cook will be up there with Tendulkar's figures when he retires, but in that class as well.

Nobody will ever average 100

Nobody will ever average 99.94 either. music Our Don Bradman.... Whistle ... music

I do think Cook will be up there with Tendulkar and Lara though. OK

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Wed 13 Mar 2013, 9:02 pm

bradman99.94 wrote:I completely agree; he is the next best to me Cool
Hope you voted for yourself on the semi final GOAT thread.... Very Happy

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Post by Pal Joey Wed 13 Mar 2013, 9:09 pm

Corporalhumblebucket wrote:
bradman99.94 wrote:I completely agree; he is the next best to me Cool
Hope you voted for yourself on the semi final GOAT thread.... Very Happy

Thanks for reminding him, Corporal. notworthy

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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Wed 13 Mar 2013, 9:15 pm

Cook is an excellent player who may end up very high in all time lists of run scorers and century makers. clap

I think the patchy quality of a fair bit of the test bowling he has faced in the last few years has probably helped to enhance his record a bit compared to some other players. If he was regularly facing a world class Windies pace barrage or the Mcgrath / Warne combo I doubt whether he would have got quite so many centuries.

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Post by msp83 Thu 14 Mar 2013, 6:25 am

To be able to retain serious consistency over the remaining bit of his career will be a challenge for Cook, I don't know whether he'll overtake Tendulkar's records of ton and test runs, but among the current lot, he's best placed to do so, provided he retains his consistency up for another 6-7 years. And the master is not quite done yet, though the move from the playing field to something less demanding is getting ever so close.

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 14 Mar 2013, 7:05 am

The fact is the only batter clearly better than Cook is Bradman.

We could argue plenty of test batters as the second best- but to be fair many are simply second best.

Cook is one of them Very Happy

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Post by Biltong Thu 14 Mar 2013, 7:07 am

Agree Mystir, but then there is Graeme Pollock. Whistle
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 14 Mar 2013, 7:13 am

Is he the second best on average then Bilty

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Post by mystiroakey Thu 14 Mar 2013, 7:15 am

Just checked him out. Yes he was. However the English lad Barrington played in about 4 times the tests Your lad did and had 20 100's.

Pollock was only a part timer mate..

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Post by Stella Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:00 am

Cook's clearly in a wonderful purple patch, but like I said before, many have had these. Clarke and Amla are currently batting as good as anyone, with Ponting, Dravid, Kallis and a few more like Chaderpaul, who averaged 100 in consecutive years, having had similar spats of tremendous form.
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Post by Biltong Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:10 am

mystiroakey wrote:Just checked him out. Yes he was. However the English lad Barrington played in about 4 times the tests Your lad did and had 20 100's.

Pollock was only a part timer mate..
Very Happy

For a part timer he was bloody good, eh?
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 14 Mar 2013, 9:53 am

Not bad..

Why did SA play so little back then?

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Post by Guest Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:00 am

Glad no-one's mentioned the dismal 17 he posted last night Whistle

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Post by Biltong Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:05 am

mystiroakey wrote:Not bad..

Why did SA play so little back then?
Politics and stuff
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Post by mystiroakey Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:21 am

I thought all that happened later on.

Ah well the English back thenmust have been kicking themselves.. We could have done with Pollock on our team Whistle

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Post by Biltong Thu 14 Mar 2013, 10:23 am

Yeah, Pollock, Richards, Procter etc.
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Post by alfie Thu 14 Mar 2013, 11:28 am

Fantastic record for a still young batsman. Where he ends up in the all time lists is going to depend on how he continues to develop as he gets older - and how long he sustains his peak , whenever he reaches it.

I have high hopes for him but am quite happy to just enjoy watching him without hanging extravagant comparisons round his neck.

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Post by gboycottnut Thu 14 Mar 2013, 11:40 am

alfie wrote:Fantastic record for a still young batsman. Where he ends up in the all time lists is going to depend on how he continues to develop as he gets older - and how long he sustains his peak , whenever he reaches it.

I have high hopes for him but am quite happy to just enjoy watching him without hanging extravagant comparisons round his neck.

Let's not get to carried away about Cook's start to his test career. After all another talented left-handed English batsman David Gower also had an excellent start to his test career as well but by the time his test career ended in 1992, he somewhat underachieved for a guy of his ability due to the burdens of captaincy at county and test match level.

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Post by kingraf Fri 15 Mar 2013, 8:35 am

mhmm. Havent been on here for a while. Last time out Clarke was the best since Bradman...

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Post by mystiroakey Fri 15 Mar 2013, 8:38 am

"
Let's not get to carried away about Cook's start to his test career"

well lets be honest on this- If this is his start - its a friecking good one!

He allready tops 100's as an England bat!

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Post by Guest Fri 15 Mar 2013, 10:16 am

I think we can all agree that Alastair Cook is a better batsman, fielder and captain than David Gower. As fine a player as he was.

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Post by Stella Fri 15 Mar 2013, 10:37 am

Gower was a fine fielder, before his shoulder (think it was shoulder) problems.
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Post by Guest Fri 15 Mar 2013, 10:46 am

That may be, but Cook is better in the field. Although it's part of the job now, it was kind of optional in Gower's day Laugh

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Post by Stella Fri 15 Mar 2013, 10:49 am

Bradman was superb in the field, apparently. Like a pre-war Jonty Rhodes Smile

TBH, Cook being a better fielder than Gower is debatable.
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Post by kingraf Fri 15 Mar 2013, 10:54 am

A case could be made for Cook being the greatest English bat in history. At this point it is of course a slightly unconvining case, but he is only 28 or so so it wont suprise me if it comes to pass.
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Post by msp83 Fri 15 Mar 2013, 11:32 am

Cook is not yet in the league of Hamond, Hobbes, Hutten, or Barrington. But he could be up there by the time he's done. He certainly can spin very well, if anything he has relatively struggled in home conditions. Kevin Pietersen and Cook are the 2 who really can cut it into the top league from the present lot.

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Post by Dorothy_Mantooth Fri 15 Mar 2013, 11:50 am

msp83 wrote:Cook is not yet in the league of Hamond, Hobbes, Hutten, or Barrington. But he could be up there by the time he's done. He certainly can spin very well, if anything he has relatively struggled in home conditions. Kevin Pietersen and Cook are the 2 who really can cut it into the top league from the present lot.

Not saying he is better than the three you have mentioned, but currently I would say that he is in their league.

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Post by kingraf Fri 15 Mar 2013, 1:17 pm

Being brutally honest

1) I have to, on principle count the lack of oppositon faced against a few of those names MSP. Not their fault, but as modern cricket shows, there is always that one place that could drag your stats down. Imagine Shane Warnes average if he only played vs SA & Eng with fleeting matches in the subcontinent.

As for Cook. I really think he will go down as one of the shining lights of this generations, but he has done nothing imho to seperate himself as a class above in the way Kallis, sRT, Lara, Ponting did in the previous era.
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Post by Guest Fri 15 Mar 2013, 1:19 pm

So there's a class above, with four batsmen in it? I'd say the current class above is Cook, Amla and Clarke, then lesser players like Chanderpaul and Sangakkara below them. Cook's definitely more 'elite' in this generation than Ponting was in the last generation (not his fault, there were better players around then).

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Post by Stella Fri 15 Mar 2013, 1:24 pm

Cook's in the form of his life but still averages below 50. He's a very good/great player but he needs to keep it going.
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Post by kingraf Fri 15 Mar 2013, 2:01 pm

yes, hence its called a class. Look in a car magazine, you will see that the term class can refer to a grouping. In tennis Nadal,Federer, Murray and Djokovic are regularly referred to as being a class above the rest. Same with Ronaldo and Messi.

Really, now? I cant be expected to give English classes here
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Post by kingraf Fri 15 Mar 2013, 2:07 pm

Dont agree on this the Cook>Ponting matter, though. Ponting in 2001-2002 Ponting scored 11 tons in 22 tests, In 2003 he scored a World Cup Final Hundred. RT has hit the 900 points club.
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Post by msp83 Fri 15 Mar 2013, 4:34 pm

There has to be a word of caution as well. In the first half of the last decade, Ponting racked up big runs and big stats, but he struggled to maintain that level of performance in the last 5 years of his career. Even Tendulkar hasn't been able to sustain that level of consistency over the last couple of seasons. Cook has had 2 brillient years since the ashes, but there is a fair few way to go as yet.

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Post by Guest Fri 15 Mar 2013, 4:49 pm

Kingraf - I wasn't disputing the use of the term 'class', I was using your statement of there being a 'class of four' to show that Cook is in a similar class in this generation. Now until they've retired we won't know how this class stacks up with the previous one, but I reckon they'll give the likes of Ponting and Lara a good run for their money stats-wise.

We all know Cook has to maintain his form, but is there any reason to believe he won't? He's shown steady progression since his Test debut, and I still think he's getting better right now. I think he could peak aged 32/33, giving him 5 years of this kind of performance. Which would slap him right in the middle of that previous class of batsmen in terms of consistency and achievement.

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