PGA Tour: "Arnold Palmer Invitational" etc: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Before we move up Interstate 4 from the course that the Pros consider the best they play in Florida to the course they rate the worst, let's have a look back at last week's Tampa Bay Classic, at Innisbrook's Copperhead Course. Kevin Streelman became the fifth first-time winner on Tour with a marvellous final nine holes which trumped Boo Weekley's best-of-the-week 63.
Streelman beat a good field to secure his maiden victory the right way, with birdies on two tough par-3's and brave, straight-down-the-middle drives on the "Snake Pit's" two par fours.

2).But who is Kevin Streelman? He's 34, middle-aged for a first-time winner, has collected $7M in official prize-winnings as he enjoys his sixth season on Tour, and won a cool $1M as the inaugural winner of the Kodak Challenge in 2009. Despite bursting on the scene in San Diego (twice, as he was joint first-round leader at the Torrey Pines US Open) in 2008, when he led after 36 holes and was grouped with E.T.Woods for Round 3 before fading, his only podium finishes before Tampa were third places in golfing hotbeds of Cancun, Puerto Rico and New Jersey.
Now he's a Tour Champion and the sky's the limit for someone who's always been much more than a journeyman and, by all accounts, one of the nicer guys on Tour. (Especially when he's not reading "the scriptures".)

3).He'll tee it up at Bay Hill this week and he's enjoyed a top ten finish here in the past. One bloke who won't be there is JB Holmes who has broken an ankle roller-blading and will be out of commission for three months. While this portends a pick-up in pace of play on Tour, it sadly suggests also that his brain surgery in 2011 wasn't as succesful as first thought. A terrible start to JB's season and now this.

4).This is one week where it's impossible not to speak of defending champion Tiger Woods. And of course he jump-started coverage of himself by posting mug-shots of Lyndsey and him all over social media and then requested privacy for the smiling couple. Good luck with that, especially following his week's canoodling with Lyndsey on his yacht "Privacy" (nothing if not ironic) during Doral. Las Vegas odds-makers are offering 4-1 against an engagement by January 2015 - I imagine Paddy Power and other reputable houses might offer rather different odds regarding rather different aspects of the joyful coming together of a sex addict and a depressive.

5).Speaking of Tiger, and why not, he was on the radio the other day likening the spotlight's glare on Rory and Wozza with that on himself and, you name her. He also revealed, in the aftermath of his (personal) record of 100 putts at Doral and putting tips from Stricker, that he had indeed offered tips to "Stricks" during last year's FedEx Play-Offs. 'Course, they then travelled together to Medinah and we know how that worked out, don't we. Needless to say he wasn't pressed on that but Thanks Tiger.

6).No tips on the putting green this week, Stricker is back in Wisconsin. But the fact is that Tiger has won here seven times and any consideration of likely winners has to include him. Which will mean that prices for the rest of the field should be generous, if only you can pick someone to beat the favourite. I certainly can't.

7).There's a terrific field on hand, no Luke or Rory, no Charl or Louis, but just about everyone else is in town. Strangely, and as noted last week, this has been a happy hunting ground for GB&I golfers with Martin Laird having won two years ago, Greg Owen incomprehensibly contriving to lose to Pampling in 2006, and decent best finishes by McDowell (2nd twice), Poulter (3rd last year), Rose (3rd in 2011), Davis (4th last year) and Westwood (5th in 2007). David Lynn makes his first visit and, at the other end of the scale, Ross Fisher was DQ'd after one round on his only appearance.
Maybe Justin Rose's turn? Wouldn't put any money on it but there seems to be something in Justin's DNA that has him winning this sort of event, especially after not doing so great coming in. Will playing with Tiger (and Ernie) in Rounds 1 and 2 help or hinder the English petal?

8).A strong web.com field is assembling in Louisiana for the first US-based tournament of the year, and Gary Christian and Russell Knox tee it up for Britain along with 18 Tour winners (and seven more are alternates).

9).While the old farts are in adjacent Mississippi, where Brian Henninger makes his first Champions Tour start. Not many Tour players can say their only two tournament wins were in Mississippi but Henninger certainly can. He was also the guy holding Ben Crenshaw's hand during the final round of Gentle Ben's post-Penick-funeral Masters win in 1995. Chapman, Mouland and Lyle will be there as well, Lyle presumably making his final (and futile) start before Augusta.

10).Easy to be cynical writing notes about the famous and wannabe famous, but much harder to express adequate admiration and appreciation for Stacy Lewis's relentless rise up the Rolex rankings to be Number One in the World.
Her difficulties with scoliosis, spinal fusion, years in a cast are well known, but she was also the first Curtis Cupper to win all five of her matches, at St.Andrews, in 2008, having already won a rain-shortened (and hence unofficial) LPGA event as an amateur. She qualified for the 2008 US Open which she led after three rounds before crumbling with a Sunday 78.
Lewis qualified for the LPGA Tour in the same Q-School as Michelle Wie, receiving far less publicity but winning the event by three shots, Wee Wie finishing six shots back.
Her career has maintained its upward trajectory including a 2011 Kraft Nabisco Championship and, without falderal or fanfare has become the first American since Beth Daniel (in 1994!!) to be LPGA Player of the Year in 2012. Great to see her go from strength to strength, even as she and her caddie go over the Rules Book regarding etiquette in a bunker.
A credit to the LPGA Tour and one of many good reasons why the Tour seems to have bottomed out and is on the rise again.

McLaren wrote:

JAS wrote:

McLaren wrote:

As for the legacy of Tiger, the key point is field strength. If you ignore that -which would be irrational - you can still argue Jack was better. If you accept tigers generation was a lot stronger then he is clearly the best player ever.

You really think Mac??
Palmer, Player, Trevino, Watson, Seve...just a selection of multiple major winners during Nicklaus' era.

During the Woods era the multiple major winners have been Els? Goosen? VJ? Harrington? Now Rory...

Do you honestly think the latter group were stiffer competition than the former?

If Woods finishes with more than 18 Majors then yes, by almost all definitions he can be considered the greatest until then the jury is out and will stay out.

You prove my point by failing to appreciate it is about the strength of the players ranked from 10 upwards, and not the very best of each generation. You have to understand that in tigers day the probability of anyone going low enough to beat the very best is much higher than in jacks. Think of the lower ranked players as one entity, where each week one of them springs out and goes as low as even the very best can.

I don't think I'm failing to appreciate anything, I just don't think it's as big a differentiating factor as you think. Yes there is more strength in depth these days, every tour player has access to all the very best technology to help them get the very best out of their game. Equipment, fitness, nutrition...everything has moved on (and to be fair Woods has been fairly instrumental in aiding the raising of the bar in many aspects). At the end of the day though anyone can have a good week and that was as true back then as it is now. I still think that during the Nicklaus era there were more mentally strong "proven" multiple major winners jockeying for position on Sunday afternoons.

If you had to win and it was time to tee off on Sunday afternoon once the strength in depth had been whittled down to the REAL contenders. Would you prefer to be Tiger, in the last 2 groups with Westwood, Donald & Scott
or Nicklaus in the last 2 groups with Watson, Trevino & Seve. Personally I'd relish the latter but if my life depended on a win I'd want to be Woods in the former...no brainer!
Ok I was a bit picky in who I used in the comparison. But over the course of 30 odd years Nicklaus consistently contended, regardless of who was put in front of him.

What I do admire about Woods is his bouncebackability. He's been written off several times but manages to reinvent/rediscover his mojo. Nicklaus never really dipped mid career to the point where people questioned his capability to come back so we'll never know if be could have rescaled the lofty heights.

Roller,
I think Tiger is seen as part of the elite, and sees himself as a part of it also.

It will be very interesting to see how his Foundation develops - it certainly receives a highly disproportionate amount of Tour charitable contributions and does nothing for Public Education. He almost never supports, by his presence anyway, the charitable initiatives of fellow pros, except those of his mate Notah Begay.


So, I don't yet see his legacy, much easier viewing in hindsight of course.


Digs,
But when Tiger was breaking through it was expected that this WOULD be one of his legacies; yet African American and even Hispanic participation, at least at the Tour level, has diminished. And he seems to do nothing to propogate greater participation, tho' the number of black tennis players, for instance, increases annually.

Not sure what Woods does for military personnel but whatever it is it's a darn sight more than the US Government seems to be doing. 'Course, any PGA Tour pro would have done the world a massive favour by coming out against wars based upon trumped up political manoeuvreing - the whole PGA Tour military tribute crap is a total sham in my book.

I know for a fact that in my area more black players play golf since tiger. You only had to go down the local driving range to find that out.

BUt its true that there are less black players represented on tour and its also a fact that it isnt a plus to tiger that he got more players in to golf(from my area at least). Its just coincedental based on his skin colour!!

All the same a good thing. But if the trend continues that we dont get to see that shade of skin in more numbers on tour its meaningless

Legacy?

Don't confuse cynicism with sophistication.

http://web.tigerwoodsfoundation.org/downloads/TWF_2011AnnualReport.pdf

gaelgowfer wrote:Tiger's legacy:
2) teaches new generation of golfers that spitting on the golf course (paticularly the greens) is acceptable behaviour.

Keegan Bradley got it.

gaelgowfer wrote:Tiger's legacy:

1) raises awareness that sex addiction is possibly a psychologicial condition.

2) teaches new generation of golfers that spitting on the golf course (paticularly the greens) is acceptable behaviour.

That's terrible, how dare he, 1) is an enjoyable pursuit that shouldn't need a shrink.

As for 2) has he?? You mean Bradley and DJ have revealed that he is actually their spitting mentor?

Really Gael, sometimes I wonder about you. So with regard to 2) then....do you swallow??

JAS wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:Tiger's legacy:

1) raises awareness that sex addiction is possibly a psychologicial condition.

2) teaches new generation of golfers that spitting on the golf course (paticularly the greens) is acceptable behaviour.

That's terrible, how dare he, 1) is an enjoyable pursuit that shouldn't need a shrink.

As for 2) has he?? You mean Bradley and DJ have revealed that he is actually their spitting mentor?

Really Gael, sometimes I wonder about you. So with regard to 2) then....do you swallow??

kwinigolfer wrote:Roller,

Digs,
But when Tiger was breaking through it was expected that this WOULD be one of his legacies; yet African American and even Hispanic participation, at least at the Tour level, has diminished. And he seems to do nothing to propogate greater participation, tho' the number of black tennis players, for instance, increases annually.

Expected by who ? And also at the end of the day does it really matter? As I said maybe hispanics and blacks prefer other sports, certainly the hispanic culture is a pretty macho one, maybe they just dont like the game.
Is the world meant to be a better place if more blacks and hispanics play golf, are there pressure groups from these communities saying we are desperate to play golf but can't ?

Are there more fat golfers because of Shane Lowry's presence, or more bible thumping golfers because of Webb Simpson, or more mullets on tour because of Bubba Watson, or people wearing their pubes on their head because of Rory McIlroy or more people playing who have their eyes too close together like Brandt Snedeker and Padraig Harrington?

super_realist wrote:Are there more fat golfers because of Shane Lowry's presence, or more bible thumping golfers because of Webb Simpson, or more mullets on tour because of Bubba Watson, or people wearing their pubes on their head because of Rory McIlroy or more people playing who have their eyes too close together like Brandt Snedeker and Padraig Harrington?

No. your point?

So why would you expect more players from ethnic players to take part simply because my hero Woods, who just happens to be mixed race and plays on tour?

It's virtually impossible to make golf a cool sport regardless of who is the current poster child.

Sr,
I'm not questioning the success of the TWF, I'm just questioning whether funds would have been better applied through the public education system and whether they get a disproportionate amount of Tour charitable contributions.

I'm very much a socialist on such things so sure we'd differ as to the extent that the ends are justified by the means.
Certainly no evidence in BTV (or probably UCA) that private education is in any way superior to the public option.

More people in london went out cycling after watching wiggins win.. more black poeople got down the golf ranges after the emergence of tiger.. Its natural..When someone is succesfull in a group that yolu feel part off(not a fat group or a pube group that is negative- A POSITIVE ONE, others want to emulate!)

"my hero Woods"



"!So why would you expect more players from ethnic players"

its just what happens- nothing to do with EXPECTING..

"
It's virtually impossible to make golf a cool sport regardless of who is the current poster child"

I have never understood your cool comment.

Bercause the coolest dudes on the planet play golf(rock stars , prem footballers, pro baseball players,. the rich and the famous¬). And it has nothing to do with who is a poster child..

The reason you dont have a GF isnt because you play golf dude

mystiroakey wrote:More people in london went out cycling after watching wiggins win.. more black poeople got down the golf ranges after the emergence of tiger.. Its natural..When someone is succesfull in a group that yolu feel part off(not a fat group or a pube group that is negative- A POSITIVE ONE, others want to emulate!)

"my hero Woods"



"!So why would you expect more players from ethnic players"

its just what happens- nothing to do with EXPECTING..

It's a bit like when you are young, you play tennis over the chute at Wimbledon time, play football during the world cup, or golf in the park during the Open. All very short lived interest.

People didn't start cycling simply because of Wiggins sideburns, but because of cycling. People similarly don't seem to gravitate to golf simply on the basis of ethnicity because they share something in common with the great Woods, just as fat people don't start playing because of Shane Lowry or ugly blokes start playing because of McIlory.

SR your just wrong mate..

I know plenty of black dudes that played golf and followed golf just because of tiger. I know this with 100% certainty. There is nothing you can tell me that can negate this TRUTH.

You may live in a non multicultural place. But in the areas around london. Kids need heros and they emulate people based on where they are from. The colour of there skin etc. It is one of the most natural and normal things about life..

s_r,
No disagreement there, but the ethos of golf has changed in the US, far fewer caddie programmes for poorer guys to break through, far more of a premium on nationwide Junior Golf competitions which are seen as dress rehearsals for college scholarships, and with all the inherent cost involved.

Nothing is being done in most parts of the country to change that direction. Not by the players, not by the Golf Associations, not by anyone, the highly regional "First Tee" programme likely the only exception.

Oakey, you may know some, all people are saying is that despite Woods brilliance, the take up amongst the ethnic community isn't as great as you'd possibly expect from having such an influential person at the top of the game for so long.
Has there been a massive influx of Tatty munchers playing the game due to McIlory, GFat and Harrington? Perhaps some, but not exactly causing courses to not have spare times.

JAS wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:Tiger's legacy:

1) raises awareness that sex addiction is possibly a psychologicial condition.

2) teaches new generation of golfers that spitting on the golf course (paticularly the greens) is acceptable behaviour.

That's terrible, how dare he, 1) is an enjoyable pursuit that shouldn't need a shrink.

As for 2) has he?? You mean Bradley and DJ have revealed that he is actually their spitting mentor?

Really Gael, sometimes I wonder about you. So with regard to 2) then....do you swallow??

1) His sex addiction put his wife and unborn children at risk of STDs.

2) Bradley and Johnson were of the right age to be influenced by Tiger Woods' spitting habit so it's entirely possible they adopted this filthy habit to copy their 'hero'. In fairness to Keegan Bradley and, to his credit, he accepted his spitting was unacceptable.

Do you think gobbing (spitting doesn't quite cover it) 5 feet from the hole is acceptable behaviour for the world's currently best known golfer?

I don't spit gratuitously which is what Tiger Woods does if that's what you mean. I've only ever seen him do it when he's really annoyed with his golf.

By the way ... has anyone ever told you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

The irish have allways played golf SR.

You using bad comparisons..

There has been plenty of new women boxers in the UK since the success of the olympics though..


Certain sports like Cricket in this country have suffered recently., but plenty of black players got involved in the UK after the amazing feets of the WI team. sadly once they faded so did UK black particpation(proving a correlation full circle)

If golf isnt being played by the poorer communities then its the game itself that should take a long hard look at itself, not Woods.
Do any clubs in the UK have open days for kids from poorer backgrounds to come and try and play the game...no way, they'd have a fit at the suggestion.
Look at how vulgar the game is, it actually has a money list to show how well people are doing, and they are big numbers. What sort of message does that convey ?
Golf was elitist in the days of Palmer, Nicklaus, Watson etc etc. Its the nature of the sport and I dont see why it should suddenly be Woods legacy to change any of that.

No magic formula to get people black/white/yellow into any sport.I watch basketball(mainly black participants nice guys) most weeks but no way am i starting to play.Mentioned in another thread but in Leics we have only 2/3 junior ladies say 12-18 years old per club on the county scheme.The lady who runs it didnt start playing until she was almost 50 as she was looking for a sport to be competitive in her later years.Golf is still relatively expensive to start and as the last 3 months have shown weather plays a big par.Would love my daughter to play but she prefers more team type stuff netball/dance/badders/footy.Easy to see why.

Digs,
*Agreed, I've already said that.
*Dunno. But the elite clubs in the US used to have caddie programmes which are a dying species, partly due to cost, partly due to carts.
*PGA Tour has always maintained a money list - didn't deter Charlie Sifford or Chi Chi, Jims Dent or Thorpe.
*I'm not saying it is - I'm just saying he hasn't. (And certainly not of the opinion that Watson has done much either except bailing Feherty out of the drunk tank, and that was probably a disservice.)

Mac has got a hard on about Palmer and Arnie certainly seems to have lost his marbles recently; but he and Nicklaus were a force for good in the game beyond mere commercialism.
Tiger's force is as a celebrity which transcends golf, but I am just arguing that it's difficult to see what his legacy will be. And as I mentioned to Roller, hindsight is quite likely to reveal a facet to his life we don't yet know about . . . . for good perhaps, as well as for bad.

We had a black captain at one of my clubs a few years ago. Cheers Woods, not only can he play golf like no one else, but he's bringing about racial harmony too What a guy.

We very nearly had a lady captain captain!(no problem for me)
Going back 20 odd years a indian doctor was on the waiting list at one of the county's better quality clubs and for several years they managed to keep him down the list so to speak.Eventually no more excuses and he was granted his membership-poor fella dropped dead a few weeks later.Hopefully things have moved on a bit.

I cant really think of any sports star that has any social change legacy. Does Federer have one, Messi, Bolt ?

super_realist wrote:We had a black captain at one of my clubs a few years ago. Cheers Woods, not only can he play golf like no one else, but he's bringing about racial harmony too What a guy.

*wipes away tears of pride* Well said supy

Diggers wrote:I cant really think of any sports star that has any social change legacy. Does Federer have one, Messi, Bolt ?

Jesse Owens was instrumental in the collapse of the third reich

gaelgowfer wrote:

JAS wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:Tiger's legacy:

1) raises awareness that sex addiction is possibly a psychologicial condition.

2) teaches new generation of golfers that spitting on the golf course (paticularly the greens) is acceptable behaviour.

That's terrible, how dare he, 1) is an enjoyable pursuit that shouldn't need a shrink.

As for 2) has he?? You mean Bradley and DJ have revealed that he is actually their spitting mentor?

Really Gael, sometimes I wonder about you. So with regard to 2) then....do you swallow??

1) His sex addiction put his wife and unborn children at risk of STDs.

2) Bradley and Johnson were of the right age to be influenced by Tiger Woods' spitting habit so it's entirely possible they adopted this filthy habit to copy their 'hero'. In fairness to Keegan Bradley and, to his credit, he accepted his spitting was unacceptable.

Do you think gobbing (spitting doesn't quite cover it) 5 feet from the hole is acceptable behaviour for the world's currently best known golfer?

I don't spit gratuitously which is what Tiger Woods does if that's what you mean. I've only ever seen him do it when he's really annoyed with his golf.

By the way ... has anyone ever told you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Yes Gael I have heard that sarcasm is allegedly the lowest form of wit, infact the thought actually entered my head when I read your original post on Tigers Legacy. No hint of sarcasm there at all eh?? So I though I'd stoop to your level and indulge you

Incidentally I don't condone gobbing. It not a pleasant habit and even in the very remote circumstance of it being attributable to a medical condition it's still not acceptable to do it where others could come into contact with it. All I'm saying is that Tiger doesn't have a monopoly on it. Many did it before him, many will do it after
and not just because of him. Spoilt brat footballers do it all the time and I would suggest many of them are in a far greater position of influence (due to the over exposure and grossly exaggerated importance of football on TV these days.

incontinentia wrote:

Diggers wrote:I cant really think of any sports star that has any social change legacy. Does Federer have one, Messi, Bolt ?

Jesse Owens was instrumental in the collapse of the third reich

Are you sure about that? What about the failed conquest of Europe and Adolf having to blow his brains out in a bunker.

incontinentia wrote:

Diggers wrote:I cant really think of any sports star that has any social change legacy. Does Federer have one, Messi, Bolt ?

Jesse Owens was instrumental in the collapse of the third reich

David Beckham won us the Olympics.....

Kwini

Not sure about a hard on, but maybe a semi over my dislike of palmer. If I had a hard on over palmer then supers wang would have imploded over his hate of Tiger.

As for the growth of the game in arnie and Jacks time I would be shocked if it were anything other than economics. Unless someone wants to argue that a growing middle class can be attributed to jack and arnie.

Owens success at those Olympics confronted Hitler with the falseness of his master race theory. It was a key event. Hitler subsequently shot himself.

Mac, I think you mean my love Woods don't you?

incontinentia wrote:Owens success at those Olympics confronted Hitler with the falseness of his master race theory. It was a key event. Hitler subsequently shot himself.

............9 years later.

I think Andre Agassi's school seems to be a pretty decent legacy so far. Has anyone noticed the lack of black South Africans playing golf also?

Digs,
Quite a few actually.
A couple of successful NBA players who made fortunes away from the game are now Mayors of major cities to try and turn them round, some of the African b'ballers are doing great things back in their home countries, plenty of fantastic initiatives by NFL and NHL players, and then there's Steffi and Agassi's work in Las Vegas.
Imagine you'd have to give some credit to Player and Els in South Africa, (certainly more black/coloured touring pros on the Sunshine Tour than PGA Tour and who'd've thunk that thirty years ago?) not to mention Ernie's autism work.

Doubtless there are plenty in GB also.


Mac,
Arnie is credited with making golf an attraction on US TV and no reason to doubt the importance of that, and of course I credit Tiger with bringing casual sports fans to TV sets and sponsors because of his celebrity.

How are any those things any better or more worthy than the Woods foundation which is putting kids through college ?
Why are they any better than the help he gives military vets ? I agree with you in general on the whole military thing but at the end of the day if thats Woods thing then he has every right to decide which cause he wants to help surely.
Its back full circle, why is anything that Woods does somehow deemed less worthwhile or purely for self interest ?

JAS wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:

JAS wrote:

gaelgowfer wrote:Tiger's legacy:

1) raises awareness that sex addiction is possibly a psychologicial condition.

2) teaches new generation of golfers that spitting on the golf course (paticularly the greens) is acceptable behaviour.

That's terrible, how dare he, 1) is an enjoyable pursuit that shouldn't need a shrink.

As for 2) has he?? You mean Bradley and DJ have revealed that he is actually their spitting mentor?

Really Gael, sometimes I wonder about you. So with regard to 2) then....do you swallow??

1) His sex addiction put his wife and unborn children at risk of STDs.

2) Bradley and Johnson were of the right age to be influenced by Tiger Woods' spitting habit so it's entirely possible they adopted this filthy habit to copy their 'hero'. In fairness to Keegan Bradley and, to his credit, he accepted his spitting was unacceptable.

Do you think gobbing (spitting doesn't quite cover it) 5 feet from the hole is acceptable behaviour for the world's currently best known golfer?

I don't spit gratuitously which is what Tiger Woods does if that's what you mean. I've only ever seen him do it when he's really annoyed with his golf.

By the way ... has anyone ever told you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Yes Gael I have heard that sarcasm is allegedly the lowest form of wit, infact the thought actually entered my head when I read your original post on Tigers Legacy. No hint of sarcasm there at all eh?? So I though I'd stoop to your level and indulge you

Incidentally I don't condone gobbing. It not a pleasant habit and even in the very remote circumstance of it being attributable to a medical condition it's still not acceptable to do it where others could come into contact with it. All I'm saying is that Tiger doesn't have a monopoly on it. Many did it before him, many will do it after
and not just because of him. Spoilt brat footballers do it all the time and I would suggest many of them are in a far greater position of influence (due to the over exposure and grossly exaggerated importance of football on TV these days.

Jas, I can see why you thought I was being sarcastic but it wasn't my intention.

I have never claimed Tiger Woods has the monopoly on spitting. Where he does have the monopoly is that he is the most televised golfer in the world and in my view this puts him in a unique position to lead by example.

As for your football analogy/comparison or indeed any sport that requires running, I think there probably is a physiological need to spit although I accept that some footballers allow it to become a habit; Rooney being a prime example.

Digs,
Woods putting people through college, as you put it, is fantastic.
But I would suggest he's doing it mostly by leveraging other peoples' money (and nothing wrong with that) and we've all heard him sticking his nose up about paying taxes that support public education.
If he went into the LA or Orange County public education system and funded programmes there I'd have far greater respect for his actions.

Fortunately we all have different opinions on things like this . . . .

Just seems to me Kwini that his altruism gets brought into question far more than other people's. We could all do more or do better but one way or the other he is generating money for good causes.

Diggers wrote:If golf isnt being played by the poorer communities then its the game itself that should take a long hard look at itself, not Woods.
Do any clubs in the UK have open days for kids from poorer backgrounds to come and try and play the game...no way, they'd have a fit at the suggestion.
Look at how vulgar the game is, it actually has a money list to show how well people are doing, and they are big numbers. What sort of message does that convey ?
Golf was elitist in the days of Palmer, Nicklaus, Watson etc etc. Its the nature of the sport and I dont see why it should suddenly be Woods legacy to change any of that.

My club has free membership to pretty much any kid that comes along. But your right this has nothing to do with woods whatsoever. And he just like any other pro can do what they like..

What's impossible to measure about impact on the game is that the number of participants certainly may have gone down at a far greater rate without the "Tiger" effect, or may have gained popularity less slowly due to Jack or Arnie. Or just the opposite. Control groups cannot be set aside.

No one knows -- lotsa conjecture.

Tiger Woods' impact on ratings is VERY closely monitored and undeniable ... and why every possible time they can show him on (or near) the course they do so. So one could argue ...

What's more, the money the TW Foundation generates is real and undeniable. As I have mentioned before, I was at a distribution "event" one time. Is it enough? Are they the right causes? Go crazy on that one.

Apart from myself I don't actually know anyone at any of my clubs who really likes Woods more than the other guys (or also rans as I call them) so I'm not sure that when we finally lose his majestic presence what difference it will make to the game. TV audiences might suffer, but as the coverage is so bad anyway what does it matter?, no different to actually playing the game though.

All I know is that I watch more golf when tiger isnt playing well. One sided sport is boring. I also doubt I am alone in that respect. Clearly the yank audience cant get enough of fhim

I started playing golf cos of the "tiger" factor. Never really heard much about it till then. My grandad played but no-one I knew had even considered it. At the time with all the Nike advertising (late 90's) all of a sudden we all started playing golf. Now I spose it could be that my age just sort of fits but I've got to say that tiger woods was a massive influence to start for me and my mates.

And no, I isn't black.

And who the feck are these old folk they keep wheeling out?

I'm the other way , I find an even playing field dull. If you have a different winner each week then how do you define who is the best ?
I like people who are great at what they do, in an ideal world you have a few, nothing in sport beats rivalries between great players so hopefully Coco will find his game soon and we should have one.

Diggers wrote:I'm the other way , I find an even playing field dull. If you have a different winner each week then how do you define who is the best ?
I like people who are great at what they do, in an ideal world you have a few, nothing in sport beats rivalries between great players so hopefully Coco will find his game soon and we should have one.

In knockout sport I agree, when you get three or four of the best ever going head to head in one-on-one contest it produces probably the best sport you ever see... the current state of men's tennis being the best example. But when you have an open field I find it much more interesting if everyone has a chance of winning, and there's a bigger element of unpredictability. Football is a good example, the Champions League only tends to get mildly interesting deep into the knockout rounds when it's the best against the best. But the Premier League is pretty dull for exactly the same reason, you spend a year with 20 teams playing each other, all theoretically in with the same chance, but you know before you start that the winner will be one of two or three and 90% of the games are a waste of time. If pro golf was mostly matchplay, I could enjoy a Woods/McIlroy/Also-rans rivalry more, but I'd rather see strokeplay tournaments that are genuinely open.

If golf was match play only there would only be Poulter