Regional Rugby, NWQs, Development & The Way Forward

by thespreys Tue 09 Apr 2013, 4:18 pm

First topic message reminder :

Nice to see the DRAGONS continue to supply welsh players of the future,bit of a joke 4 non welsh in one swoop,its time to cut their funding as they do nothing for the welsh cause.

by Stone Motif Wed 24 Apr 2013, 7:26 pm

Griff wrote:
Allty wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
Allty wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I have conceded that perhaps I will have to watch him and the South African second rower play before I can make any judgments on them, on the other thread, but you cannot possibly defend the signing of Burton now can you.

Well you can, but other posters won't listen to you.

Dont be so sure. There are 3 or 4 posters on here who post on this thread who may. But the rest of us just smile knowingly at the bias from the East
Pretending 'everyone' agrees with you when you have lost an argument. The last refuge of the keyboard warrior...

It is concerning that he counts himself and Dowlais as the majority right enough.

Not at all there is always silent majority.

The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.

I can see an argument for 2nd/A teams but the majority of the arguments we're having on here is because we haven't got enough talent to go around. For the regions to be competitive in the league and Europe, especially given that Wales players are away from the club for such long periods, we need at least two decent options in each position with probably a 3rd player to cover for injuries and absence (international call ups, etc.). To have A teams you'd then need double that, so you'd need players 4,5 and 6 in the pecking order (or at least 4 and 5) to make up the 30 man squads for these teams. There simply are not enough good players to do this. You'd just make A teams of the standard of Division 1 and you'd just get the same problems with stepping up as we do now with the step up from prem to Pro. And who would they play? Each other? As SS says we've already got that with the academies where they play each other at U16 and U18 level. And these are likely to be those players at 4,5,6 in the pecking order anyway. Therefore no need IMO.

So, the real problem is that we haven't got enough good enough players to fill 4 squads. Hence we need to fill with either overseas or local players, and a lot of the time we either can't afford good options or they turn out to be not so good or they are not up to the required standard (these points relate to both overseas and welsh equally). This is where the argument to scrap a region comes in. Now I'm personally against this as I think, dare I say it, that this will block player development. 4 is the magic number for me. If the Dragons had been scraped then I wonder whether Lydiate, Faletau, Coombs, Charteris, Brew, Burns, etc. would have come through? Maybe, maybe not. The challenge, for me, is to to manage to fill these squads in such a way that they become competitive enough to grow the business with trophies and subsequent increase in fans, sponsorship, revenue, etc. while at the same time producing players for the international team. Flooding the teams with foreign players might do the former but not the latter, and only playing emerging kids might do the latter but not the former. Therefore a mix is the way forward. And that's why the NWQ player limit is in place. As long as we're not breaking it then I don't see a problem.

Griff, can you get yourself to this meeting of RRW and the WRU board tomorrow and beat this post into them? Feel free to use a cricket bat if it helps.

by Allty Thu 25 Apr 2013, 9:47 am

[quote="Risca Rev"][quote="Allty"]The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.
[/quote]

Firstly, I'm not Newport biased, as I'm a Risca boy and support Cross Keys, so I don't know what Newport has to do with it?

Secondly, I passed Sports Science in College, so it's fair to say I do have an understand of physiology of sport, as Anatomy and Physiology was a large component on both years. I don't know what the relevance of coaching is? I'm still a player anyway.

Lastly, Dragons supporters don't just blame Lewis. We have (and I know I can safely talk for the majority of us) always known we need to strengthen in key areas, yet when we finally try to do so, we get criticised by some. Dragons can't do right for doing wrong really. They get criticised for lacking in ambition, but then when they try to form a competitive squad, people still want to have a pop.[/quote]

I'm interested in the fact that you completed a sports science course(Degree or GCSE?) that took two years and then say you know little about coaching.

by Guest Thu 25 Apr 2013, 10:09 am

College is a bit of a giveaway.

I don't know why you mentioned have probably never coached? Show me where I said I know little about coaching? I merely stated that I don't see the relevance of you mentioning "probably have never coached".

Other than that, if that's all you can try discussing from my post, then it's fair to say, the other two points I raise prove that your post i quoted was a load of guff.

by Guest Thu 25 Apr 2013, 10:12 am

Allty wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Allty wrote:The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.

Firstly, I'm not Newport biased, as I'm a Risca boy and support Cross Keys, so I don't know what Newport has to do with it?

Secondly, I passed Sports Science in College, so it's fair to say I do have an understand of physiology of sport, as Anatomy and Physiology was a large component on both years. I don't know what the relevance of coaching is? I'm still a player anyway.

Lastly, Dragons supporters don't just blame Lewis. We have (and I know I can safely talk for the majority of us) always known we need to strengthen in key areas, yet when we finally try to do so, we get criticised by some. Dragons can't do right for doing wrong really. They get criticised for lacking in ambition, but then when they try to form a competitive squad, people still want to have a pop.

I'm interested in the fact that you completed a sports science course(Degree or GCSE?) that took two years and then say you know little about coaching.

Allty, you said he probably knew little about physiology. He studied sports science, for which physiology is a major component. However, sports coaching is a different subject where science and physiology is not the focus. Therefore, you can do a sports science course and not know much about coaching. Sports coaching is more about teaching in many ways, so quite easy not to know about it if your focus has ben on science (physiology, psychology, nutrition, etc - how the body works in sport).

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 10:43 am

Allty wrote:I'm not wasting my time helping a region in its death throes.

Yet you stated in the other bickering thread;

"I support all regions and all clubs."

?

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 10:50 am

Don't forget, the WRU/RRW pow wow is happening today and I guess it's already kicked off and the first scrum collapsed.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 25 Apr 2013, 10:51 am

Allty in moving goalposts amid defeat shocker... Laugh

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 25 Apr 2013, 10:56 am

I'm surprised there's nothing about the meeting on the BBC website. After all the insults and accusations that have been flying around, it's kind of newsworthy that there's actually going to be a meeting between the two parties (although I don't think the executive will be involved).

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:05 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm surprised there's nothing about the meeting on the BBC website. After all the insults and accusations that have been flying around, it's kind of newsworthy that there's actually going to be a meeting between the two parties (although I don't think the executive will be involved).

Curiously, reading the Os forum - the Q&A Hore thread, it would appear that the regions will be represented by others rather than the usual suspects.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:12 am

That is strange, but any dialogue has to be good - you'd think! Rolling Eyes

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:27 am

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Here's a thought I have been pondering, and I will probably get told how little I know about rugby et al, but here me out, when the Ospreys first purchased Kahn Fatuali he was not up to much, some might say he was rubbish and a waste of money, but the Ospreys stuck with him over Rhys Webb and surely enough Kahn emerged as quite a decent scrum half, now stick with me on this, if Kahn Fatuali was not at the Ospreys and Rhys Webb was stuck with and given the game time that Kahn Fatuali was given do we think Webb could have blossomed as much as Fatuali has ? I for one would like to think that he could have, given his promise he showed the season before, and glimpses again when given the chance this season, and for me this is the point I am making, next season the Ospreys will have Tibaldi who could well turn out to be decent even though he was about fourth choice at Zebre, but Rhys Webb needs a run of games like Kahn Fatuali had even when he is not playing as well as he showed towards the end of this season, Webb is looking out of sorts, but so was Kahn, the Ospreys gave Kahn Fatuali a run of games but Webb hasn't been given a run. Perhaps if he had the Ospreys and Wales could have had another decent option at nine. It's just a thought, but I know I am going to be told different by people on here.
I think it would be equally fair to say Khan and Webb went head to head for the jersey and the better player won there? Different region different story though, it can hardly be said the Dragons have failed to offer their young players game time this season, or any season really. The issue is retention of experience in the team, not the quality of the younger players. Allty will be along now to tell us how we've consistently failed the youth of Gwent though, without any evidence whatsoever to back that claim up.

Hi all,

Just an aside on Kahn, in his final year with the Crusaders he was superb, regularly pushing Andy Ellis (who was 2nd or 3rd choice AB's 9 at the time) to the bench. And at that point the Crusaders were still one of the top 2 or 3 strongest club sides in the world. Had he not lost patience with the NZ selectors and opted for Samoa a year or 2 earlier he'd have made the ABs that year, instead he had a really good run with Samoa. IMO, when he arrived at the Ospreys he struggled due to tiredness, he'd pressty much played 12 months without a break prior to joining. So I wasn't surprised when Kahn eventually came right, he's a quality player.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:27 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:That is strange, but any dialogue has to be good - you'd think!

More courtesy of the Os forum;

"I think Andrew Hore went as far as he could in giving details of the strategy the regions will adopt. As I recall he said that a presentation will be given to the meeting today by a woman and not one of the regional representatives or Gallagher. He also said that the regions had taken the decision not to use too much "spin" as has been the case with Lewis et al. He reiterated that the preferred option would be the PRGB but the sticking point could be the deciding vote of the independent chairman. The impression I had was that the regions believe they have a lot to contribute to the development of the game in Wales in general and would like more input at the highest level. The main thing is that the regions present a united front; it will be interesting to see what comes out of this."

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:29 am

and more;

"The next few posts are courtesy of Tircoeds we thank you for these

Have to say, both Hore & Gruff 100% honest, no give away body language when aske an awkward question.... as I say, it's a shame people stayed away .... that said, numbers in line with previous events I think

Can't remember all the questions but I was tweeting answers ......

Hore stated that the English Rugby Union generate £120M per year, not including the revenue generated by the clubs ( so, no including TV revenue in that number ). Whereas the WRU & Regions combined generate £80M (including TV revenue etc) ... point he was making was about the differeing resource levels within the game.

Hore made a big play about sustainability ..... to get more money into the game wont come from internatiaonals as thats as saturation point ... can't charge more as recent matches have shown. So, need to grow the regional game (being head of one of the regions, this is hardly surprising he has this view !) .....

Then went on to discuss role of clubs in the WP, he's of the belief that they feed the region whilst there are others who think the should be in it for themselves. He quoted a wage bill of one WP (unamed) as £450K per season. Paying older players / journeymen when there are other clubs in the WP who live within their means and play younger players. He firmly believe the WP clubs should be used as development for the younger players with some experienced players to help them along .... that way they feed the regions who theoretically become more successful who can then perculate some of the finances back down to the grass roots clubs to aid further development. (I'm sure Phil has mentioned something similar in a blog ..... )

here is a belief that the PRGB will never get off the ground due to fears by the WRU regarding losing a vote because of the casting one."

by LordDowlais Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:32 am

I hope Stuart Gallacher is not going to be the sole spoksperson for the regions, that man is just an argument waiting to happen.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:33 am

and more again;

"So, onto tomorrows meeting, the regions are being represented by two independent people rather than the heads of the regions, to try and get some acceptance of what is being asked for (as opposed to dealing with people who have obvious baggage)."

Not what I expected. I thought all the big guns would be in attendance, but according to this none of them will be there.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:36 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
More courtesy of the Os forum;

"The regions believe they have a lot to contribute to the development of the game in Wales in general and would like more input at the highest level."

This is the thing I can't fathom: the WRU's refusal to allow the regions to deal / develop better ties with their clubs. Why is that? We hear from naysayers that the regions aren't 'embracing the concept' of regional rugby, yet the executive won't let them do so:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21957344

by LordDowlais Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:44 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:and more again;

"So, onto tomorrows meeting, the regions are being represented by two independent people rather than the heads of the regions, to try and get some acceptance of what is being asked for (as opposed to dealing with people who have obvious baggage)."

Not what I expected. I thought all the big guns would be in attendance, but according to this none of them will be there.

The regions are boxing clever here, obviously there is some needle between the regional big wigs and the WRU hierarchy so they have put independent adjudicators there to take the emotion out of any dealings, so the regional big wigs are getting their tuppence across and the WRU are not looking at them with alterior motives, for me this news is the best news of the lot so far.

by Stone Motif Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:46 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm surprised there's nothing about the meeting on the BBC website. After all the insults and accusations that have been flying around, it's kind of newsworthy that there's actually going to be a meeting between the two parties (although I don't think the executive will be involved).

Yes, it's almost as if they're shamefully only reporting half the story, isn't it? V. Interesting stuff on the O's forum.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 12:09 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
More courtesy of the Os forum;

"The regions believe they have a lot to contribute to the development of the game in Wales in general and would like more input at the highest level."

This is the thing I can't fathom: the WRU's refusal to allow the regions to deal / develop better ties with their clubs. Why is that? We hear from naysayers that the regions aren't 'embracing the concept' of regional rugby, yet the executive won't let them do so:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21957344

I dunno. Maybe the devil is in the detail and the following might give some;

"Then went on to discuss role of clubs in the WP, he's of the belief that they feed the region whilst there are others who think the should be in it for themselves. He quoted a wage bill of one WP (unamed) as £450K per season. Paying older players / journeymen when there are other clubs in the WP who live within their means and play younger players. He firmly believe the WP clubs should be used as development for the younger players with some experienced players to help them along .... that way they feed the regions who theoretically become more successful who can then perculate some of the finances back down to the grass roots clubs to aid further development."

Who is this unamed club I wonder and what would the existing clubs in the WP think of Hore's ideas?

by thebluesmancometh Thu 25 Apr 2013, 12:16 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
More courtesy of the Os forum;

"The regions believe they have a lot to contribute to the development of the game in Wales in general and would like more input at the highest level."

This is the thing I can't fathom: the WRU's refusal to allow the regions to deal / develop better ties with their clubs. Why is that? We hear from naysayers that the regions aren't 'embracing the concept' of regional rugby, yet the executive won't let them do so:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21957344

I dunno. Maybe the devil is in the detail and the following might give some;

"Then went on to discuss role of clubs in the WP, he's of the belief that they feed the region whilst there are others who think the should be in it for themselves. He quoted a wage bill of one WP (unamed) as £450K per season. Paying older players / journeymen when there are other clubs in the WP who live within their means and play younger players. He firmly believe the WP clubs should be used as development for the younger players with some experienced players to help them along .... that way they feed the regions who theoretically become more successful who can then perculate some of the finances back down to the grass roots clubs to aid further development."

Who is this unamed club I wonder and what would the existing clubs in the WP think of Hore's ideas?

Well we know that club is Ponty, and we know they give a chuff what the rest of the prem, regions, WRU think!!!

I can't get behind the idea of using the WP as a development tool, surely the best players outside of regional rugby should play there, then the younger pro players will have more competitive gametime, otherwise just turn the prem into an U23 league and be done with it!!!

by Allty Thu 25 Apr 2013, 12:54 pm

[quote="Griff"][quote="Allty"][quote="Risca Rev"][quote="Allty"]The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.
[/quote]

Firstly, I'm not Newport biased, as I'm a Risca boy and support Cross Keys, so I don't know what Newport has to do with it?

Secondly, I passed Sports Science in College, so it's fair to say I do have an understand of physiology of sport, as Anatomy and Physiology was a large component on both years. I don't know what the relevance of coaching is? I'm still a player anyway.

Lastly, Dragons supporters don't just blame Lewis. We have (and I know I can safely talk for the majority of us) always known we need to strengthen in key areas, yet when we finally try to do so, we get criticised by some. Dragons can't do right for doing wrong really. They get criticised for lacking in ambition, but then when they try to form a competitive squad, people still want to have a pop.[/quote]

I'm interested in the fact that you completed a sports science course(Degree or GCSE?) that took two years and then say you know little about coaching.

[/quote]

Allty, you said he probably knew little about physiology. He studied sports science, for which physiology is a major component. However, sports coaching is a different subject where science and physiology is not the focus. Therefore, you can do a sports science course and not know much about coaching. Sports coaching is more about teaching in many ways, so quite easy not to know about it if your focus has ben on science (physiology, psychology, nutrition, etc - how the body works in sport). [/quote]

Now I know why you and a few of your friends know little about player development.

I actually employ people who have successfully completed these courses and have other high level sports qualifications

I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys. But you should never let the blind faith of youth cloud reason. I add being rude to anyone of any age shows complete lack of maturity you just do not know who you are talking to.

Year 1

Six core units:

Principles of Health, Fitness and Nutrition
Introduction to Physiology of Exercise
Introduction to Sports Psychology
Introduction to Biomechanics
Gym Training
Industry Practice and Research.
Year 2
Five core units and one option unit:

Application of Fitness Testing and Training
Applied Techniques in Sports Psychology
Applied Principles of Biomechanics
Research Methods for Sport and Exercise
Advanced Training Principles OR Applied Principles of Strength and Conditioning.
Options:

Applied Techniques in Performance Analysis
Sports Massage
Work-based Learning
Diet and Nutrition.
Year 3
Project/dissertation

Three units from the following:

Professional Practice in Physiology
Professional Practice in Sports Psychology
Professional Practice in Biomechanics
Sports Science Support.
One option:

Professional Practice in Strength and Conditioning
Professional Practice in Sports Performance Analysis
Sports Nutrition and Performance
Physical Education
High-Performance Coaching.

by Guest Thu 25 Apr 2013, 1:16 pm

Allty wrote:
Griff wrote:
Allty wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Allty wrote:The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.

Firstly, I'm not Newport biased, as I'm a Risca boy and support Cross Keys, so I don't know what Newport has to do with it?

Secondly, I passed Sports Science in College, so it's fair to say I do have an understand of physiology of sport, as Anatomy and Physiology was a large component on both years. I don't know what the relevance of coaching is? I'm still a player anyway.

Lastly, Dragons supporters don't just blame Lewis. We have (and I know I can safely talk for the majority of us) always known we need to strengthen in key areas, yet when we finally try to do so, we get criticised by some. Dragons can't do right for doing wrong really. They get criticised for lacking in ambition, but then when they try to form a competitive squad, people still want to have a pop.

I'm interested in the fact that you completed a sports science course(Degree or GCSE?) that took two years and then say you know little about coaching.

Allty, you said he probably knew little about physiology. He studied sports science, for which physiology is a major component. However, sports coaching is a different subject where science and physiology is not the focus. Therefore, you can do a sports science course and not know much about coaching. Sports coaching is more about teaching in many ways, so quite easy not to know about it if your focus has ben on science (physiology, psychology, nutrition, etc - how the body works in sport).

Now I know why you and a few of your friends know little about player development.

I actually employ people who have successfully completed these courses and have other high level sports qualifications

I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys. But you should never let the blind faith of youth cloud reason. I add being rude to anyone of any age shows complete lack of maturity you just do not know who you are talking to.

Year 1

Six core units:

Principles of Health, Fitness and Nutrition
Introduction to Physiology of Exercise
Introduction to Sports Psychology
Introduction to Biomechanics
Gym Training
Industry Practice and Research.
Year 2
Five core units and one option unit:

Application of Fitness Testing and Training
Applied Techniques in Sports Psychology
Applied Principles of Biomechanics
Research Methods for Sport and Exercise
Advanced Training Principles OR Applied Principles of Strength and Conditioning.
Options:

Applied Techniques in Performance Analysis
Sports Massage
Work-based Learning
Diet and Nutrition.
Year 3
Project/dissertation

Three units from the following:

Professional Practice in Physiology
Professional Practice in Sports Psychology
Professional Practice in Biomechanics
Sports Science Support.
One option:

Professional Practice in Strength and Conditioning
Professional Practice in Sports Performance Analysis
Sports Nutrition and Performance
Physical Education
High-Performance Coaching.

Allty, there's no Sports Coaching in there. So that proves that he can do such a course and not know much about coaching!

I hope the rude comment was not at me (you mention it when quoting my post). I was not rude in my post. I was very matter of fact.

p.s. I am a lecturer in sport and health at a university.

by Guest Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:04 pm

You can list all the qualifications you want Alty. Fact is, I don't know why you have to make sweeping generalisations like we are all from Newport, when I'm not. Also I just wanted to prove to you that I have an understanding of physiology. You seem to want to digress from the topic at hand a lot. Just because you are qualified at lots of things, doesn't mean you aren't very wrong when you're talking about the Dragons. Banging on about silent majority or whatever is bullpoop. It isn't just Dragons supporters telling you that you're wrong. It's not a matter of immaturity on our parts, it's a matter of massive ignorance on your part.

Now as lovely as it must be blowing your own trumpet, why don't you try getting back to the topic at hand.

by Allty Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:08 pm

[quote="Griff"][quote="Allty"][quote="Griff"][quote="Allty"][quote="Risca Rev"][quote="Allty"]The Newport biased on this thread cannot even see the need for Second (A) teams. Know very little about the physiology of sport probably have never coached always need someone like Lewis to blame for the failings of their own clubs and are so blinkered they need to call others names.
[/quote]

Firstly, I'm not Newport biased, as I'm a Risca boy and support Cross Keys, so I don't know what Newport has to do with it?

Secondly, I passed Sports Science in College, so it's fair to say I do have an understand of physiology of sport, as Anatomy and Physiology was a large component on both years. I don't know what the relevance of coaching is? I'm still a player anyway.

Lastly, Dragons supporters don't just blame Lewis. We have (and I know I can safely talk for the majority of us) always known we need to strengthen in key areas, yet when we finally try to do so, we get criticised by some. Dragons can't do right for doing wrong really. They get criticised for lacking in ambition, but then when they try to form a competitive squad, people still want to have a pop.[/quote]

I'm interested in the fact that you completed a sports science course(Degree or GCSE?) that took two years and then say you know little about coaching.

[/quote]

Allty, you said he probably knew little about physiology. He studied sports science, for which physiology is a major component. However, sports coaching is a different subject where science and physiology is not the focus. Therefore, you can do a sports science course and not know much about coaching. Sports coaching is more about teaching in many ways, so quite easy not to know about it if your focus has ben on science (physiology, psychology, nutrition, etc - how the body works in sport). [/quote]

Now I know why you and a few of your friends know little about player development.

I actually employ people who have successfully completed these courses and have other high level sports qualifications

I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys. But you should never let the blind faith of youth cloud reason. I add being rude to anyone of any age shows complete lack of maturity you just do not know who you are talking to.

Year 1

Six core units:

Principles of Health, Fitness and Nutrition
Introduction to Physiology of Exercise
Introduction to Sports Psychology
Introduction to Biomechanics
Gym Training
Industry Practice and Research.
Year 2
Five core units and one option unit:

Application of Fitness Testing and Training
Applied Techniques in Sports Psychology
Applied Principles of Biomechanics
Research Methods for Sport and Exercise
Advanced Training Principles OR Applied Principles of Strength and Conditioning.
Options:

Applied Techniques in Performance Analysis
Sports Massage
Work-based Learning
Diet and Nutrition.
Year 3
Project/dissertation

Three units from the following:

Professional Practice in Physiology
Professional Practice in Sports Psychology
Professional Practice in Biomechanics
Sports Science Support.
One option:

Professional Practice in Strength and Conditioning
Professional Practice in Sports Performance Analysis
Sports Nutrition and Performance
Physical Education
High-Performance Coaching.

[/quote]

Allty, there's no Sports Coaching in there. So that proves that he can do such a course and not know much about coaching!

I hope the rude comment was not at me (you mention it when quoting my post). I was not rude in my post. I was very matter of fact.

p.s. I am a lecturer in sport and health at a university.[/quote]

Shame you cant read. I'll help ......the last line will suffice.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:09 pm

I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys.

Laugh

I have generally found over the years he who shouts loudest usually knows least!!!

With all due respect Allty, if your credentials are a lifetime of sport, we are all in the same boat, as we have all spent our lifetimes on the sport!!! If your angle is that your lifetime is longer than anyone elses then I would propose that anything you have learnt pre 2005 is generally useless, out of date, and defunct.

Not sure why your listing uni and course lists, although it's getting dangerously close to looking like my CV Rolling Eyes

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:15 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys.

I have generally found over the years he who shouts loudest usually knows least!!!

With all due respect Allty, if your credentials are a lifetime of sport, we are all in the same boat, as we have all spent our lifetimes on the sport!!! If your angle is that your lifetime is longer than anyone elses then I would propose that anything you have learnt pre 2005 is generally useless, out of date, and defunct.

Not sure why your listing uni and course lists, although it's getting dangerously close to looking like my CV

+1, professional sport and amature are very different beasts. If you are a pro then even little things like how much you are earning in relation to the bloke next to you can alter your mind set etc.

by Allty Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:21 pm

[quote="thebluesmancometh"]I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys.

Laugh

I have generally found over the years he who shouts loudest usually knows least!!!

With all due respect Allty, if your credentials are a lifetime of sport, we are all in the same boat, as we have all spent our lifetimes on the sport!!! If your angle is that your lifetime is longer than anyone elses then I would propose that anything you have learnt pre 2005 is generally useless, out of date, and defunct.

Not sure why your listing uni and course lists, although it's getting dangerously close to looking like my CV Rolling Eyes

[/quote]

I have and still make a living through sport.

PS and I employ guys like you. Very Happy

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:26 pm

Allty wrote:I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys. But you should never let the blind faith of youth cloud reason. I add being rude to anyone of any age shows complete lack of maturity you just do not know who you are talking to.

If I may be so bold, Allty, the haughtiness of your last few posts is just as rude.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:28 pm

Allty wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys.

I have generally found over the years he who shouts loudest usually knows least!!!

With all due respect Allty, if your credentials are a lifetime of sport, we are all in the same boat, as we have all spent our lifetimes on the sport!!! If your angle is that your lifetime is longer than anyone elses then I would propose that anything you have learnt pre 2005 is generally useless, out of date, and defunct.

Not sure why your listing uni and course lists, although it's getting dangerously close to looking like my CV

I have and still make a living through sport.

Making a living through sport and working as a rugby professional are 2 different things mate . I wouldn't work at a Uni for the kind of pay they offer!

My point is regurgatating a syllabus and knowing all about rugby aren't quite the same, for example answer me these...

1, In your honest opinion why do you think the pencil position as a presentation technique is flawed?

2, Tactical kicking is a key compnent of rugby union, what is the most important part of a kick from your own 22?

3, While in the renowned 'red zone' what do you think is the key factor for attacking teams to focus on?
PS and I employ guys like you.

by LordDowlais Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:29 pm

Anyway, is there any more news regarding this meeting ?

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:31 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:and more again;

"So, onto tomorrows meeting, the regions are being represented by two independent people rather than the heads of the regions, to try and get some acceptance of what is being asked for (as opposed to dealing with people who have obvious baggage)."

Not what I expected. I thought all the big guns would be in attendance, but according to this none of them will be there.

The regions are boxing clever here, obviously there is some needle between the regional big wigs and the WRU hierarchy so they have put independent adjudicators there to take the emotion out of any dealings, so the regional big wigs are getting their tuppence across and the WRU are not looking at them with alterior motives, for me this news is the best news of the lot so far.

Not sure what to make of this meeting now. Let's look at the clues;
2 as yet unknown independants are supposedly going to make a presentation to representatives of the WRU. I guess this means there will be not much negotiation especially if the bigger boys aren't present.
More waiting and seeing methinks.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 25 Apr 2013, 2:37 pm

Dave, I think it'll be a worthwhile exercise if the regions are able to give the board their side of the argument. Bar what's been in the public domain, all they'll have had up to now is the executive's side of things.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 3:03 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Dave, I think it'll be a worthwhile exercise if the regions are able to give the board their side of the argument. Bar what's been in the public domain, all they'll have had up to now is the executive's side of things.

Oh I agree, but it wasn't what I expected and I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer for any solutions to our many problems.

by Allty Thu 25 Apr 2013, 3:09 pm

[quote="thebluesmancometh"][quote="Allty"][quote="thebluesmancometh"]I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys.

Laugh

I have generally found over the years he who shouts loudest usually knows least!!!

With all due respect Allty, if your credentials are a lifetime of sport, we are all in the same boat, as we have all spent our lifetimes on the sport!!! If your angle is that your lifetime is longer than anyone elses then I would propose that anything you have learnt pre 2005 is generally useless, out of date, and defunct.

Not sure why your listing uni and course lists, although it's getting dangerously close to looking like my CV Rolling Eyes

[/quote]

I have and still make a living through sport.

Making a living through sport and working as a rugby professional are 2 different things mate Cool

. I wouldn't work at a Uni for the kind of pay they offer!

My point is regurgatating a syllabus and knowing all about rugby aren't quite the same, for example answer me these...

1, In your honest opinion why do you think the pencil position as a presentation technique is flawed?

2, Tactical kicking is a key compnent of rugby union, what is the most important part of a kick from your own 22?

3, While in the renowned 'red zone' what do you think is the key factor for attacking teams to focus on?

Q1 Educational gobbledegook.

Q2 Deciding on the type and direction of the kick.

Q3 Heads up looking for and working out where the where the defensive weaknesses are or will come

by Guest Thu 25 Apr 2013, 3:55 pm

[quote="Allty"][quote="Griff"][quote="Allty"][quote="Griff"]

Allty wrote:
Risca Rev wrote:
Allty wrote:T

Year 1

Six core units:

Principles of Health, Fitness and Nutrition
Introduction to Physiology of Exercise
Introduction to Sports Psychology
Introduction to Biomechanics
Gym Training
Industry Practice and Research.
Year 2
Five core units and one option unit:

Application of Fitness Testing and Training
Applied Techniques in Sports Psychology
Applied Principles of Biomechanics
Research Methods for Sport and Exercise
Advanced Training Principles OR Applied Principles of Strength and Conditioning.
Options:

Applied Techniques in Performance Analysis
Sports Massage
Work-based Learning
Diet and Nutrition.
Year 3
Project/dissertation

Three units from the following:

Professional Practice in Physiology
Professional Practice in Sports Psychology
Professional Practice in Biomechanics
Sports Science Support.
One option:

Professional Practice in Strength and Conditioning
Professional Practice in Sports Performance Analysis
Sports Nutrition and Performance
Physical Education
High-Performance Coaching.

Allty, there's no Sports Coaching in there. So that proves that he can do such a course and not know much about coaching!

I hope the rude comment was not at me (you mention it when quoting my post). I was not rude in my post. I was very matter of fact.

p.s. I am a lecturer in sport and health at a university.

Shame you cant read. I'll help ......the last line will suffice.

The key word is 'optional'! Therefore, you can do the whole course and not know about coaching!

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 4:06 pm

Pinched from Scarlet Fever.
"a newspaper" must be the Fail;

"Views from The Guardian's Paul Rees in their weekly 'Breakdown' blog email. He references the PR battle, but not every journalist simply regurgitates Kim Jong-rog's utterances, it would appear...

WALES AND REGIONS AT LOGGERHEADS

Steve Walsh provoked England's ire on the final weekend of the Six Nations when he took exception to their technique in the scrum and at the breakdown against Wales in Cardiff. A complaint to the IRB followed.

Heady days for Wales then, but little more than a month later the clouds have settled with the Welsh Rugby Union and the country's four regions in a staring contest over how the professional game should be run.

England have considerably more trust in Walsh than the WRU and the regions have in each other, but the two sides will finally meet on Thursday night after a lengthy standoff but, typical of the dispute, there are two types of spin.

The regions will address the full board of the WRU. The Union maintains it was its invitation and its initiative. The four sides say they asked to speak to all the directors months ago, concerned that not all they were saying in meetings with the governing body was being reported back.

There was an example of that last week when a newspaper report claimed that at the one and only meeting of the professional regional game board – the body made up of representatives from the two sides and chaired by an independent – the regions made what was deemed an unacceptable demand: a say in the appointment of the Wales coach and the WRU chief executive going forward.

They say the first casualty in war is the truth. What is an off-break to a right-handed batsman is a leg-break to a left-hander. Context and all that. Sources say the regions did make the suggestion, but only after the WRU had said it would expect to be part of the appointment process when the regions hired head coaches, chief executives and other key figures, with the inference that no one it disapproved of should be taken on.

It was not a demand by the regions, as has been reported, merely a means of finding out whether it was going to be a two-way partnership or as democratic as North Korea. The impasse since has revealed the answer and if the regions fail to convince the WRU's directors that the game board should start meeting, as constituted and soon, they face a lingering death. Is that what should pass for governance?

(This story doesn't appear on the Guardian web-site, only on the Breakdown email - I'd recommend subscribing to it.)"

by Allty Thu 25 Apr 2013, 4:35 pm

[quote="Griff"][quote="Allty"][quote="Griff"][quote="Allty"][quote="Griff"][quote="Allty"][quote="Risca Rev"][quote="Allty"]T

Professional Practice in Physiology
Professional Practice in Sports Psychology
Professional Practice in Biomechanics
Sports Science Support.
[b]One option: [/b]

The key word is 'optional'! Therefore, you can do the whole course and not know about coaching![/quote]

Unbelievable

are you telling me you can now get a degree in Sports science and know nothing about coaching Very Happy

Just about everything in that course is directly or indirectly linked to professional top level coaching and player development.

However 'tis my last post on this thread and I remain convinced that imports serve very little purpose in our game.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 25 Apr 2013, 4:43 pm

[quote="Allty"][quote="thebluesmancometh"]

Allty wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:I think I know after a lifetime in sport just a tiny bit more than you guys.

I have generally found over the years he who shouts loudest usually knows least!!!

With all due respect Allty, if your credentials are a lifetime of sport, we are all in the same boat, as we have all spent our lifetimes on the sport!!! If your angle is that your lifetime is longer than anyone elses then I would propose that anything you have learnt pre 2005 is generally useless, out of date, and defunct.

Not sure why your listing uni and course lists, although it's getting dangerously close to looking like my CV

I have and still make a living through sport.

Making a living through sport and working as a rugby professional are 2 different things mate . I wouldn't work at a Uni for the kind of pay they offer!

My point is regurgatating a syllabus and knowing all about rugby aren't quite the same, for example answer me these...

1, In your honest opinion why do you think the pencil position as a presentation technique is flawed?

2, Tactical kicking is a key compnent of rugby union, what is the most important part of a kick from your own 22?

3, While in the renowned 'red zone' what do you think is the key factor for attacking teams to focus on?

Q1 Educational gobbledegook.

Q2 Deciding on the type and direction of the kick.

Q3 Heads up looking for and working out where the where the defensive weaknesses are or will come

Educational gobbledegook??? The 'pencil' or 'long' present are widely regarded by pros and amateurs as the best way to present ball to the half back, someone who was even remotely involved within the game would know that!

Deciding on the type of kick is all well and good, but the decision is trumped 100% of the time by organisation! 10's don't really decide anything in their 22 anymore, safety is the order of the day, it doesn't matter what kick it is, the follow up and the reaction of the side kicking is always more important than the kick itself!

And ell regarding the red zone there isn't really a 'most important factor' some coaches prefer to keep the ball tight and look for cheap yards and points, others think the red zone is a strike pattern place only, Ive even met coaches who thought that the red zone was generally for trick plays, either way it doesn't matter.

My point is there is no law in rugby, anyones ideas are as good as the next, no matter the experience, the thought process or the ego, there are no right or wrong answers, but there is a question over what involvement if at all you have at coaching, don't take that as offence, but you are trying to prove you know more than everyone, and that can be answered correctly... no, you do not!

by Allty Thu 25 Apr 2013, 6:08 pm

I didnt want to reply but have to Very Happy

Q 1 remains gobbledegook.

Q2 You are only adding to my post and stating the obvious

Q3 You used the "Red Zone" a description that I dont like or use rugby is a simple game being strangled by todays coaches.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 25 Apr 2013, 6:17 pm

Allty wrote:I didnt want to reply but have to

Q 1 remains gobbledegook.

Q2 You are only adding to my post and stating the obvious

Q3 You used the "Red Zone" a description that I dont like or use rugby is a simple game being strangled by todays coaches.

by wayne Thu 25 Apr 2013, 6:43 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:and more again;

"So, onto tomorrows meeting, the regions are being represented by two independent people rather than the heads of the regions, to try and get some acceptance of what is being asked for (as opposed to dealing with people who have obvious baggage)."

Not what I expected. I thought all the big guns would be in attendance, but according to this none of them will be there.

The regions are boxing clever here, obviously there is some needle between the regional big wigs and the WRU hierarchy so they have put independent adjudicators there to take the emotion out of any dealings, so the regional big wigs are getting their tuppence across and the WRU are not looking at them with alterior motives, for me this news is the best news of the lot so far.

Not sure what to make of this meeting now. Let's look at the clues;
2 as yet unknown independants are supposedly going to make a presentation to representatives of the WRU. I guess this means there will be not much negotiation especially if the bigger boys aren't present.
More waiting and seeing methinks.

Cardiff Dave, not having a dig here, was unable to be at the meeting yesterday, but spoke to somebody that was there, the feeling was that the woman who joined our board as a non executive member last week, was the woman that would give the presentation also the 4 regions would be there just not give the presentation.
Lord Dowlais whoever gave you the impression that Kahn Fotuallii was not wanted at the Ospreys by the majority of fans is delusional, as the NZer posted he was keeping out the next in line at the Crusaders, he missed a few weeks out with a knee injury at the tail end of that season, which impinged on his first season with us. He showed his true colours with us this season. If he had been picked in all of the first 3 games of this season we would have been in the playoffs, Rhys Webb cost us the defeats against both Glasgow and Ulster, the Glasgow game he dropped a ball in our 22 and tried to con the ref into giving a penalty against Glasgow saying the ball had been knocked out of his hand, but on closer examination the Glasgow player was nowhere near the ball, Glasgow scored a try from it

by LordDowlais Thu 25 Apr 2013, 8:13 pm

Wayne, I am only conveying what I was being told when at the games. I was at the Treviso HC game and there were people around me who wanted him lynched. I was also there at the start of his tenure at the Ospreys and people were screaming for Webb to start ahead of him, don't get me wrong, as he improved peoples attitudes changed towards him and more and more people wanted him in the starting line up. Although as we have all whitnesed Kahn has improved but he can still be frustrating with his overly long box kicks and lack of ideas but he is at this time better than Webb, but on reflection have you ever considered that Webb could have improved as much as Kahn has if he was afforded the same patience as him ? I am now starting to think though that perhaps the coaches were right in sticking with Kahn because Rhys Webb's attitude does seem a little arrogant and perhaps that went against him, but I would like to see him been given a run just to see if he can improve, sadly with Tito Tibaldi there next season, along with a raft of other scrum halves I doubt we will see it.

by Guest Thu 25 Apr 2013, 8:50 pm

Have people not considered that maybe the Ospreys are attempting to 'do a Kahn' by singing Tebaldi? The Ospreys took a punt on Kahn, a player with a few caps but showing promise. It worked out and they ended up signing one of the best scrum halves operating in Europe (IMO). A great find and served them well. Would have been good if they could have kept him.

In Tebaldi they've signed a 25 year old with 14 caps, so experienced at playing at the top level and still young enough to develop and improve. Obviously one that the O's think is worth the risk. Might come off, a la Kahn, might not come off a la Nutbrown! But I guess it's better to take a chance on capped players (he will have more caps than the rest of the Ospreys' scrum halves) than on a complete novice???

by wayne Thu 25 Apr 2013, 9:15 pm

Griff wrote:Have people not considered that maybe the Ospreys are attempting to 'do a Kahn' by singing Tebaldi? The Ospreys took a punt on Kahn, a player with a few caps but showing promise. It worked out and they ended up signing one of the best scrum halves operating in Europe (IMO). A great find and served them well. Would have been good if they could have kept him.

In Tebaldi they've signed a 25 year old with 14 caps, so experienced at playing at the top level and still young enough to develop and improve. Obviously one that the O's think is worth the risk. Might come off, a la Kahn, might not come off a la Nutbrown! But I guess it's better to take a chance on capped players (he will have more caps than the rest of the Ospreys' scrum halves) than on a complete novice???

Griff, in the Q&A session with Hore and Tandy last night, they were asked about the starting order for the scrum half position next season and Tandy said the 3 in contention who would be Habberfield, Tebaldi and Webb would all start equal same as last season (when Webb cooked his goose against Glasgow and Ulster). LD I'm sorry where you heard the booing against KF against Treviso if you are talking about the HC game so the man who totally controlled the game and we won 38-17 and stayed on until the 74th minute and from where I was sitting all I heard was the booing when Webb came on in his place. Also the reason we signed Tebaldi was because Gruff Rees used to coach Tebaldi when in Italy.

by Guest Thu 25 Apr 2013, 9:20 pm

Hi Wayne. I'd expect them to give those players an equal chance, and then see who shines through. If one turns out to be head and shoulders above another then I'd expect them to feature more asa the season goes on. A bit like the battle with Kahn and Rhys Webb this season.

I personally think Tebaldi could be a good signing, but a few on here and other posts have denounced it as a waste of money already.

by wayne Thu 25 Apr 2013, 9:56 pm

Griff wrote:Hi Wayne. I'd expect them to give those players an equal chance, and then see who shines through. If one turns out to be head and shoulders above another then I'd expect them to feature more asa the season goes on. A bit like the battle with Kahn and Rhys Webb this season.

I personally think Tebaldi could be a good signing, but a few on here and other posts have denounced it as a waste of money already.

Griff, I've been a ST holder here at the Os every season since they moved to the LS apart from 2 seasons due to ill health, most of the others who portray themselves as Os supporters are not at that level of commitment, I think you are the same as myself, I would rather hear the opinion of true supporters than these that go on a haphazard basis, you HAVE to take a punt on some of these players like Tebaldi, Burton etc some come off others don't, if you asked on our board who has been the ONE true legend at the Ospreys the majority would have come out with Filo Tiatia, who was playing in Japan and is now back there coaching and he would be welcomed back here in that capacity in a heartbeat.

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 10:55 pm

wayne wrote:
Cardiff Dave, not having a dig here, was unable to be at the meeting yesterday, but spoke to somebody that was there, the feeling was that the woman who joined our board as a non executive member last week, was the woman that would give the presentation also the 4 regions would be there just not give the presentation.

That makes more sense and i'd forgotten what Richard Holland said recently, so the big guns would've been in attendance today;

Blues chief executive Richard Holland said last night: “We are looking forward to having a dialogue with the full board of the union.
“It’s not an opportunity we have had since I have been involved. Stuart Gallacher (RRW chief executive) used to sit on it, but the regions no longer have a voice around the table, which is questionable in itself.
“Why was Stuart’s place taken away? But let’s start afresh. All we want is an opportunity to explain our side.
“We want the management of the pro game to go through the PRGB, as was agreed. We have come up with ideas and solutions to how we can take things forward.
“Let’s hope some goodwill comes out of it because we should be united for the good of Welsh rugby.”

by Cardiff Dave Thu 25 Apr 2013, 11:15 pm

wayne wrote:
Griff wrote:Hi Wayne. I'd expect them to give those players an equal chance, and then see who shines through. If one turns out to be head and shoulders above another then I'd expect them to feature more asa the season goes on. A bit like the battle with Kahn and Rhys Webb this season.

I personally think Tebaldi could be a good signing, but a few on here and other posts have denounced it as a waste of money already.
Griff, I've been a ST holder here at the Os every season since they moved to the LS apart from 2 seasons due to ill health, most of the others who portray themselves as Os supporters are not at that level of commitment, I think you are the same as myself, I would rather hear the opinion of true supporters than these that go on a haphazard basis, you HAVE to take a punt on some of these players like Tebaldi, Burton etc some come off others don't, if you asked on our board who has been the ONE true legend at the Ospreys the majority would have come out with Filo Tiatia, who was playing in Japan and is now back there coaching and he would be welcomed back here in that capacity in a heartbeat.

Agreed, but try telling that to Allty, in a nice way of course, because for some reason he is "convinced that imports serve very little purpose in our game". While you're at it remind him of Xavier Rush.
MOM Amlin semi final v Wasps...
http://www.espnscrum.com/europeanchallenge/rugby/story/114900.html

by Allty Fri 26 Apr 2013, 12:15 am

Just had a very pleasant evening with friends to celebrate my good ladies 70th

The group has over 150 Welsh capsl the unanimous decision was that the NWQ's served little purpose.

That a previous post about pencils and red zones was hilarious Very Happy

Good night after a great party and I'm now happily out of this thread subscribed to by tunnel visioned regional supporters. Very Happy

Its been fun playing with you guys angel

by Guest Fri 26 Apr 2013, 1:48 am

Allty wrote:Just had a very pleasant evening with friends to celebrate my good ladies 70th

The group has over 150 Welsh capsl the unanimous decision was that the NWQ's served little purpose.

That a previous post about pencils and red zones was hilarious

Good night after a great party and I'm now happily out of this thread subscribed to by tunnel visioned regional supporters.

Its been fun playing with you guys

You're bound to find like minded individuals to hang round with. Probably all ignorant old goats and the point about caps means little, as they obviously aren't current players, as no way would a modern international be so narrow minded as to say NWQs serve little purpose.

Playing with us? So you've been deliberately getting everything wrong? Well I guess that makes your ignorance on here slightly more excusable.

That your first thought after a great night was to come on here and post that worries me. Your wife must find you a treat.

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