Humble Pie: What I Say?

by davidemore Sun 14 Apr 2013, 10:54 am

First topic message reminder :

Just watching the fight now, but from what I read and despite the judges trying to rob him, Rigo dominated!

Boo ya!

emore new, did you, Ghosty????

Thoughts on the fight gang?

by vulva equinox Sun 14 Apr 2013, 5:59 pm

azania wrote:
TumblingDice wrote:Spot on Manos.
I'm amazed Donaire said afterwards that he'd not studied Rigo. Incredible lack of preparation.

He lied.

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:01 pm

I will say though that either Donaire or Rigondeaux need to beat Mares, both more talented than he is but for as long as he goes unbeaten neither can claim supremacy over the lower weights.

I wouldn't mind seeing Moreno face Rigondeaux either, he's a tough cookie who was undone by the dirtiness of Mares, a problem he wouldn't have against Rigo.

Any of Donaire, Rigondeaux, Mares and Moreno facing off will produce very different problems for each of them.

by davidemore Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:11 pm

Valid points.

by vulva equinox Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:12 pm

davidemore wrote:Valid points.

Ban Him

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:20 pm

Wouldn't be at all surprised if Rigo faces Darchinyan next up though, one thing that does have to be commended is that you can say none of the top men below featherweight avoid anyone.

by mobilemaster8 Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:33 pm

Where do we rank rigondeux now then gents after his demolishing of the so called FOTY/P4P top 3???

Does he now fit in as a P4P top ten fighter??

Is he now ranked higher than Nonito?

How far can he go?

Surely being a unified champ, two time ABA champ, two time gold medalist, only 12 fights and having made a great superstar look like Martin Rogan shouts out arguments??

Thoughts??

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:36 pm

Well his amateur career has no relevance to his standing in the pro game, where he ranks is a tricky one in comparison to Donaire, would be tempted to have below still based on Donaires four weight world titles.

Donaire at 5 with Rigondeaux entering at 8 would be my best bet.

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:38 pm

I'd have Rigo ahead of Nonny as things stand. He has to be. He beat him. Argument done.

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:44 pm

I can understand that logic but it's a very tricky one and I can't imagine Rigo is going to be done any favours by Arum in the future. He may be a touch ahead but it will only be momentarily until Donaire is back to winning ways.

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:46 pm

Nothing tricky about it. Nonny may have a better record as he's had more fights. But Rigo is the better fighter as proven so should rank above him in the current P4P stakes. ATG wise is another matter.

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:47 pm

As a former super flyweight and a four weight world champion it's not quite as straight forward as that.

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:49 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:As a former super flyweight and a four weight world champion it's not quite as straight forward as that.

Yes it is.

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:58 pm

If P4P is based purely on boxing ability then he's number 1. If it's based on something else then I don't know where he stands.

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 6:59 pm

Floyd still on top. Best there is today.

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:02 pm

Rigo has more ability than Floyyd. Floyd is proven to be the better fighter.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:05 pm

I'm quite a big fan of Donaire as you all know, but trust me, Donaire says in every interview that he doesn't study opponents. He relies on his reflexes in the ring and figures it out.

Don't by the 'I didn't study him' excuse, because he never does for any opponent.

by manos de piedra Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:05 pm

I think I would put Rigondeaux at number 4 at the moment. Behind Mayweather, Ward and Marquez.

by **88Chris05** Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:07 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:If P4P is based purely on boxing ability then he's number 1. If it's based on something else then I don't know where he stands.

That's the problem really, mate! Everyone has their own take on what exactly 'pound for pound' means these days. When the title was first created for Robinson (or Benny Leonard, for those who believe the other popular story of the term's conception!), it was strictly about the pure abilities of the fighter regardless of weight. These days, however, it's common for many people to include respective achievements over a career when weighing it up. Tricky and there isn't really a right or wrong in many cases.

Personally, I think last night's fight was a little too dominant a win for Rigondeaux to justify having Donaire ahead of him right now. Had it been a close, nip 'n' tuck affair, then perhaps. But to me, it wasn't a close fight at all really, and I think the cards were kind to Donaire. On that basis, I'd really struggle to feel comfortable having Nonito higher, regardless of his sparkling overall career record which, of course, still has more glorious highs than Guillermo's.

It might seem odd having a twelve-fight novice (I use that term liberally in Rigondeaux's case) in the pound for pound top five, which I can see a case for now, but in Rigondeaux we're talking about perhaps the most accomplished twelve fight novice professional of all time, which is why I don't think Donaire deserves the kicking for this loss which he's likely to receive in the coming weeks in some quarters.

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:08 pm

It's not Donaire's job to study opponents. It's his coaches.

Perhaps wrongly, I took his comments to mean his team hadn't studied Rigo. If that was the case then I don't believe it for one minute.

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:09 pm

Great post Chris

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:10 pm

Anyone who discredits Donaire for this loss is doing Rigondeaux a huge disservice.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:12 pm

TheMackemMawler wrote:It's not Donaire's job to study opponents. It's his coaches.

Perhaps wrongly, I took his comments to mean his team hadn't studied Rigo. If that was the case then I don't believe it for one minute.

I'm saying his excuse is weak, many other fighters don't study opponents Mayweather and Calzaghe are examples, they just figure it out in the ring, I think Cleverly is another one.

by manos de piedra Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:13 pm

Mayweather studies opponents for sure, regardless of what he says. Calzaghe probably couldnt find any footage for most of his.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:14 pm

88Chris05 wrote:
TheMackemMawler wrote:If P4P is based purely on boxing ability then he's number 1. If it's based on something else then I don't know where he stands.

That's the problem really, mate! Everyone has their own take on what exactly 'pound for pound' means these days. When the title was first created for Robinson (or Benny Leonard, for those who believe the other popular story of the term's conception!), it was strictly about the pure abilities of the fighter regardless of weight. These days, however, it's common for many people to include respective achievements over a career when weighing it up. Tricky and there isn't really a right or wrong in many cases.

Personally, I think last night's fight was a little too dominant a win for Rigondeaux to justify having Donaire ahead of him right now. Had it been a close, nip 'n' tuck affair, then perhaps. But to me, it wasn't a close fight at all really, and I think the cards were kind to Donaire. On that basis, I'd really struggle to feel comfortable having Nonito higher, regardless of his sparkling overall career record which, of course, still has more glorious highs than Guillermo's.

It might seem odd having a twelve-fight novice (I use that term liberally in Rigondeaux's case) in the pound for pound top five, which I can see a case for now, but in Rigondeaux we're talking about perhaps the most accomplished twelve fight novice professional of all time, which is why I don't think Donaire deserves the kicking for this loss which he's likely to receive in the coming weeks in some quarters.

The issue for Rigo now is he might become part of the 'Who needs him' club and another issue is there isn't a challenge at super bantam in the top rank stable now.

He needs to use this momentum to his advantage and capitalise on it.

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:15 pm

As far as talent goes Mayweather and Ward are the top two, far more complete skillset than anyone else around at the moment combined with proving it beyond doubt.

by kingraf Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:17 pm

damn... Noni lost! I cant seem to pick a fighter this year. If I wasnt so cheap, my gambling problem would have put me in real trouble.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:17 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Mayweather studies opponents for sure, regardless of what he says. Calzaghe probably couldnt find any footage for most of his.

Haha, he probably got used to it, maybe what Mayweather says and does are two different things...

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:20 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Mayweather studies opponents for sure, regardless of what he says. Calzaghe probably couldnt find any footage for most of his.

by manos de piedra Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:22 pm

Yeah I would definately say so. Mayweather is very dilligent in his preparation. I would say he studies most of his opponents well in advance of even picking them.

by Guest Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:27 pm

azania wrote:
TumblingDice wrote:Spot on Manos.
I'm amazed Donaire said afterwards that he'd not studied Rigo. Incredible lack of preparation.

He lied.

Yes Az, still very odd as he gets no benefit from lying, makes him look stupid.

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:28 pm

manos de piedra wrote:Yeah I would definately say so. Mayweather is very dilligent in his preparation. I would say he studies most of his opponents well in advance of even picking them.

Probably, especially so now as he's aging and has a zero to protect until retirement

by JabMachineMK2 Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:30 pm

What the hell is Davide? I agree with his points, but look at the way he goes about trying to discuss them! Calling people idiots and using ridiculous lines towards people like Ghosty (whom I often disagree with but I respect his knowledge)

And whats with the posting after EVERY SINGLE person who says anything in agreement with you? Are you that devoid of praise that you feel the need to self-assert? I will guarantee that around.....half of your posts are absolute garbage, the rest can be split between rehashed posts discussing the same thing over thats already been discussed, self assertion with agreement and complete idiocy.

Theres a reason people think you're a joke Emore. Mackem called it right, huge respect. Do you see him saying NER NER and claiming that he's an all knowing boxing guru? Do you see him making insane statements like "the new king of boxing"?

Tone it down.

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:36 pm

I think Mackem called it wrong in fact, he pinpointed how Rigo could win but if i'm not mistaken he backed Donaire to knock him out eventually.

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:38 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:
TheMackemMawler wrote:It's not Donaire's job to study opponents. It's his coaches.

Perhaps wrongly, I took his comments to mean his team hadn't studied Rigo. If that was the case then I don't believe it for one minute.

I'm saying his excuse is weak, many other fighters don't study opponents Mayweather and Calzaghe are examples, they just figure it out in the ring, I think Cleverly is another one.

They're both lying.

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 7:59 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I think Mackem called it wrong in fact, he pinpointed how Rigo could win but if i'm not mistaken he backed Donaire to knock him out eventually.

I never try to predict winners of fights, unless is glaringly obvious.

I knew how he could win easily (and obviously wanted him too) but I was worried about him protecting his chin for the full 12 rounds. I was more confident Rigo would win back in 2012 but the more time spent on here.....well, lets just say you lot are very persuasive!

The day of the fight I was worried. I was starting to think my bias was clouding my judgement. Doubting myself, I said if I was FORCED to pick then I'd have to remain safe and say Donaire between 5 and 8. However, i said if it went to point's then Rigo would get it (as long as he didn't have too many 10-8's against him).

Basically, I picked the two most likely outcomes so I would be right either way!! Very Happy

by Imperial Ghosty Sun 14 Apr 2013, 8:03 pm

I still think Donaire would win a rematch though, slightly concerned by how quickly he's outgrowing divisions, wasn't that long ago he was fighting at super flyweight and now he's moving up to featherweight.

by TheMackemMawler Sun 14 Apr 2013, 8:05 pm

In a rematch I'd probably say the same but in reverse, and with more conviction.

Rigo definitely on points... unless Donaire stops him between 5 and 8! Very Happy

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 8:15 pm

I'll start predicting foghts your way.

With Bellew and Chilemba if neither wins, it will be a draw.

by davidemore Sun 14 Apr 2013, 8:29 pm

Rigo schools him twice as bad in a rematch. Twice as bad.

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 8:33 pm

Nah. Nonny adapts and scores a KO. Mark my words. Rigo will race ahead. Nonny will target the body and nail the head in 9.

by manos de piedra Sun 14 Apr 2013, 8:40 pm

Donaires always capable of knocking Rigondeaux out but I dont think he can outbox him. He wasnt really any closer at the end of the fight to solving Rigondeaux. Hes such a dangerous puncher though that you can never write him off.

by davidemore Sun 14 Apr 2013, 8:42 pm

Fair points.

Arum is talking smack about Rigo on Boxingscene. What a turd, he's just upset he lost money.

by BoxingFan88 Sun 14 Apr 2013, 9:15 pm

Rigo hurt Donaire a few times, with that laser like left hand. How did Donaire damage his eye, was it his own glove rubbing in it?

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 14 Apr 2013, 9:20 pm

Goes to show fellows that however much you criticise Floyd Mayweather for this and that....

Succeeding over a length of time like 13 years and being at the top of your sport all that while is a really wonderful achievement and worthy of Top 10 status..

by davidemore Sun 14 Apr 2013, 9:26 pm

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 9:37 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Goes to show fellows that however much you criticise Floyd Mayweather for this and that....

Succeeding over a length of time like 13 years and being at the top of your sport all that while is a really wonderful achievement and worthy of Top 10 status..

Floyd needs to fight weekly and over 100 times before he is allowed entry into that club.

by eddyfightfan Sun 14 Apr 2013, 9:47 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Goes to show fellows that however much you criticise Floyd Mayweather for this and that....

Succeeding over a length of time like 13 years and being at the top of your sport all that while is a really wonderful achievement and worthy of Top 10 status..

it really does. it also make me (unwillingly) respect the klitschko's a little more for similar reasons.

by azania Sun 14 Apr 2013, 9:56 pm

eddyfightfan wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Goes to show fellows that however much you criticise Floyd Mayweather for this and that....

Succeeding over a length of time like 13 years and being at the top of your sport all that while is a really wonderful achievement and worthy of Top 10 status..

it really does. it also make me (unwillingly) respect the klitschko's a little more for similar reasons.

Absolutely. A huge fan on Wlad and his skills. Don't appreciate the slave contracts much though.

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