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What changes will IRELAND see under Schmidt

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Post by BelfastDickVet Fri 03 May 2013, 11:06 pm

What changes do Irish fans hope to see under the new management..... Positional, tactical, etc

I expect to see the end of the SOB at 7 experiment, although he is has done a decent job there, he is by far a better 6, and joe will have an intimate knowledge of this, and so I think we will see the use of a true out and out fetching 7 whether it is Henry or someone like Dom Ryan. I hope to see dynamic second rows like Touhy, Henderson or Nagle getting more game time.

I think we will see a lot more of McFadden and Trimble, as they are very skilful backs whom have suffered from a conservative gameplay with huge emphasis on defence rather that attacking flair.

I also hope we assign I full time scrummaging coach. Feek is doing an ok job but I really feel a full time coach is needed in this potential problem area for Ireland. I hope kiss stays on but moves back to his defensive duties, with any luck Gret Smal will be replaced as I feel our forward play has become predictable and out dated in recent seasons..

Ireland have a fantastic pool of talent, and this emerging Ireland side tour, i think, is a stoke of genius as it will give fringe players further opportunities to show their abilities outside the provincial game. I hope to see a lot more of both these fringe players and those whom are going on the North America tour to be used in big situations so we won't be as badly affected with injuries as we were this year. If you fail to prepare then prepaid to fail.

The biggest thing I hope this new management set up causes, is an end to the constant interprovincial bickering over bias selection etc, as it ruins so many threads and is utterly tedious for all involved!



Last edited by BelfastDickVet on Fri 03 May 2013, 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Biltong Fri 03 May 2013, 11:09 pm

First question, are the Irish supporters happy with his appointment?
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Post by BelfastDickVet Fri 03 May 2013, 11:14 pm

I for one am kinda happy. A lot will depend on who the back-room staff are. I believe he is the best man for the head coaching appointment, but he could be seriously hindered if the IRFU stick with the current personnel in their current roles.

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Post by Biltong Fri 03 May 2013, 11:16 pm

Is it not normal practice that the head coach put together his own assistant coaches?
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Post by BelfastDickVet Fri 03 May 2013, 11:19 pm

I really hope so biltong but with the IRFU you can never be certain.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 03 May 2013, 11:23 pm

Biltong wrote:First question, are the Irish supporters happy with his appointment?

Tentatively............yes. I say tentatively because you can't really know how it's all going to pan out. Club coaching is very different to International coaching, as our last coach found out to his detriment.

I suspect Schmidt will add a lot more punch and drive to our system. Happiness will come with performance. All we can really be for now is hopeful.

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Post by Biltong Fri 03 May 2013, 11:28 pm

What was his coaching style at club level like, attacking or conservative?
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Post by BelfastDickVet Fri 03 May 2013, 11:31 pm

I think he brought a lot of attacking flair and skill to leinsters play when appointed. Very much a Southern Hemisphere style of play which now defines them.

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Post by Biltong Fri 03 May 2013, 11:33 pm

Well it sounds like he should be different in style to Kidney then. I wonder if he will start out with cleaning out th locker room to bring a bunch of new guys in.
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Post by Gretgael1 Fri 03 May 2013, 11:34 pm

I'm delighted Schmidt is our new coach, I think he'll do a very good job.

Schidt has mentioned that his staff will be announced in the next 6-8 weeks so I'd imagine he's on the look for new personnel, but it does look likely that Kiss will remain with the squad. This isn't terrible news but only if he reverts to his previous role as defense coach.

I think we haven't seen the last of SOB at 7 for Ireland. Schmidt regularly plays SOB there for Leinster even with all the options they have. I'm excited about our back play with Schmit in command. Under Kidney's rule we lacked a cohesive game plan and often our backs seemed lost and at odds with their role, even BOD admitted as much.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 03 May 2013, 11:37 pm

Biltong wrote:What was his coaching style at club level like, attacking or conservative?

Schmidt? Two Heineken Cups and still considered the second best attacking club side in Europe, even though they fell off the HC chart this season when suffering injuries and coming up against hot favourites this year Clermont in the pool stages. Leinster have always played a running attack orientated game but they'd lost that a little before they looked for Schmidt to bring it back to the fore. He has.

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Post by profitius Sat 04 May 2013, 1:42 am

We'll see a drastic improvement in Irelands attack. Thats what everyone wanted. Schmidt will have loads of options and he is very innovative so for the first time in ages I'll be looking forward to an Ireland game with excitment.
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Post by Feckless Rogue Sat 04 May 2013, 12:08 pm

Actual smart use of the bench, rotation of squad and selection of team to suit the opposition and conditions. Game plans designed specifically to expose opposition weakness.

Ireland were once a smart team under EOS. Under Kidney they became the dumbest, most predictable team in world rugby. Hopefully we'll become smart again under Schmidt.
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Post by asoreleftshoulder Sat 04 May 2013, 12:50 pm

Feckless Rogue wrote:Actual smart use of the bench, rotation of squad and selection of team to suit the opposition and conditions. Game plans designed specifically to expose opposition weakness.

Ireland were once a smart team under EOS. Under Kidney they became the dumbest, most predictable team in world rugby. Hopefully we'll become smart again under Schmidt.

Exactly this,really looking forward to seeing what he can put together.One thing I expect in the AI's is a very straightforward gampelan for the 1st 2 matches and then we'll throw everything at NZ.He has done this for Leinster before big HC matches all the time,we'd play a very basic gameplan in the Rabo against Munster or Ulster.Just one out runners from deep or quick hands across the backs,accurate and at pace but nothing fancy,then in the HC we'd use all our tricks.

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sat 04 May 2013, 2:00 pm

I am delighted at the appointment, Deans would have been a good call too and so would Vern Cotter but I think Joe is up there with those two.

I am expecting:

1) Horses for courses. So selections will be made based on who we are playing not on our best team all the time.

2) Our attacking play to improve hugely and backs and forwards to interact more often in midfield.

3) For our bench to be used more sensibly and as an impact rather than just a cap accumulator.

I can the following personnel changes:

1) Trimble, Tuohy, Henry, Henshaw, Marmion and Madigan to get much more gametime.

2) Earls to not get many chances at 13.

3) Players playing abroad to not be ignored to the same extent.

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Post by Golden Sat 04 May 2013, 2:11 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I am delighted at the appointment, Deans would have been a good call too and so would Vern Cotter but I think Joe is up there with those two.

I am expecting:

1) Horses for courses. So selections will be made based on who we are playing not on our best team all the time.

2) Our attacking play to improve hugely and backs and forwards to interact more often in midfield.

3) For our bench to be used more sensibly and as an impact rather than just a cap accumulator.

I can the following personnel changes:

1) Trimble, Tuohy, Henry, Henshaw, Marmion and Madigan to get much more gametime.

2) Earls to not get many chances at 13.

3) Players playing abroad to not be ignored to the same extent.


Who did Kidney ignore that was playing abroad? The only player I can see been picked who plays elsewhere is Sexton and I think he would have been picked under the previous management anyway (possibly Hagan if he continues to improve).

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Post by Sin é Sat 04 May 2013, 2:28 pm

I'm going to enjoy his team selections. It will be interesting to see first of all his coach selection (I wouldn't be surprised if he kept on Kiss & Smal as he has no international coaching experience himself to provide some continuity in this area). He was happy enough to keep on all Cheika's coaching staff with Leinster. If Kiss stays on Foley is out the door as defence coach (personally happy with that as Foley was missed at Munster during the 6Ns).

By the way, Browne confirmed that Schmidt will be selecting his own coaching staff (as Kidney did).

I'd expect to see Luke Fitz & Dave Kearney in as they seem to be Schmidt favourites. I can't understand why he let Andrew Conway & Hagan move away from Leinster, so they can forget any international future.

As regards the exiles - only ones I can see getting a look in are Sexton & Tomas O'Leary (if he gets back to full fitness).

I'm looking forward to seeing what he between Jackson & Madigan and whether he will stick with Heaslip as captain.

Its going to be fun here though when you all get peed off when he keeps picking POM, Earls & Murray & Stephen Archer instead! Very Happy
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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sat 04 May 2013, 2:42 pm

Golden wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I am delighted at the appointment, Deans would have been a good call too and so would Vern Cotter but I think Joe is up there with those two.

I am expecting:

1) Horses for courses. So selections will be made based on who we are playing not on our best team all the time.

2) Our attacking play to improve hugely and backs and forwards to interact more often in midfield.

3) For our bench to be used more sensibly and as an impact rather than just a cap accumulator.

I can the following personnel changes:

1) Trimble, Tuohy, Henry, Henshaw, Marmion and Madigan to get much more gametime.

2) Earls to not get many chances at 13.

3) Players playing abroad to not be ignored to the same extent.


Who did Kidney ignore that was playing abroad? The only player I can see been picked who plays elsewhere is Sexton and I think he would have been picked under the previous management anyway (possibly Hagan if he continues to improve).

I don't mean just Kidney I mean Irish coaches for the past bit. Guys like Casey, Wilson, Ross who were all playing abroad got very few chances. I can see Schmidt not caring about any of that and picking guys like TOL, Buckley, Hagan, Hayes, Morris, Sexton etc if they are the best in their positions

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Post by Sin é Sat 04 May 2013, 2:51 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
I don't mean just Kidney I mean Irish coaches for the past bit. Guys like Casey, Wilson, Ross who were all playing abroad got very few chances. I can see Schmidt not caring about any of that and picking guys like TOL, Buckley, Hagan, Hayes, Morris, Sexton etc if they are the best in their positions

Playing abroad didn't keep Casey out (POC, DOC & Mal did as did Leo & MOD). What kept Wilson out of the Irish team up to 2008 when he went to Northampton? (Easterby, Ferris, Foley, Leamy, Wally & Heaslip), Ross (John Hayes - and don't forget he couldn't make the Leinster team for a year after he came home).

Bowe & Geordan got selected - because they were good enough.
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Post by rodders Sat 04 May 2013, 10:00 pm

Biltong wrote:First question, are the Irish supporters happy with his appointment?

Yes!!!!

Great guy, awesome coach. Me and Joe have exactly the same philosophy on rugby so I practically feel like I'm coaching the team myself .... Whistle
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Post by theslosty Sat 04 May 2013, 10:28 pm

Schmidt-guided RWC team?

1. Healy (Killcoyne)
2. Best (Strauss, Cronin, Sherry)
3. Ross (Hagan, Lutton)
4. Ryan (Tuohy, McCarthy)
5. POC (Toner)

This is difficult, we have SOB, POM, Heaslip, Henderson, TOD, Henry

Hmmm...

6. SOB (Henderson, POM)
7. TOD (Henry)
8. Heaslip (Stander)

Now, I like this...

9. Murray (Marmion)
10. Sexton (Jackson, Hanrahan)
12. Madigan (Olding, D'arcy)
13. Marshall (Fitz, Earls, McFadden)

11. Zebo (Conway)
14. Bowe (Gilroy)
15. Kearney (Henshaw)

You better not screw this up, Joe thumbsup
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Post by Golden Sat 04 May 2013, 10:41 pm

Is that for 2015?

I think Henderson will be in the second row by then, i dont see Darcy been involved with Ireland and I can see Bowe been overtaken.

I also harbour some hope for Archer progressing for then. He should get a good bit of game time. Is BJs contract on for another year?

Looks a good team though

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Post by Sin é Sat 04 May 2013, 11:37 pm

It doesn't matter who he picks, its what he should achieve. He needs to beat the ABs in the autumn as its the best time ever to do it with all the AB sabbaticals and we won't get to play them until possibly the world cup.

And as the world cup is practically at home, we should make a world cup final and have a good chance against everyone except England if we make the final.

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 9:35 am

Sin é wrote:It doesn't matter who he picks, its what he should achieve. He needs to beat the ABs in the autumn as its the best time ever to do it with all the AB sabbaticals and we won't get to play them until possibly the world cup.

And as the world cup is practically at home, we should make a world cup final and have a good chance against everyone except England if we make the final.


Setting the bar awful high there Sin. Beat the All Blacks and win the World Cup. In other words, his goal is number 1 in the world rankings within two years from present 9th position now? Third being the highest we've ever acieved - briefly. And all this from ordinary non-'world class' players in general?

Good luck to him with that brief!

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Post by Sin é Sun 05 May 2013, 9:47 am

SecretFly wrote:
Sin é wrote:It doesn't matter who he picks, its what he should achieve. He needs to beat the ABs in the autumn as its the best time ever to do it with all the AB sabbaticals and we won't get to play them until possibly the world cup.

And as the world cup is practically at home, we should make a world cup final and have a good chance against everyone except England if we make the final.


Setting the bar awful high there Sin. Beat the All Blacks and win the World Cup. In other words, his goal is number 1 in the world rankings within two years from present 9th position now? Third being the highest we've ever acieved - briefly. And all this from ordinary non-'world class' players in general?

Good luck to him with that brief!

They are the two main things that Ireland need to do (and probably the only reason why Brian O'Driscoll would want to hang around). Ireland were in a fairly poor spot when Kidney took over (struggling to hold onto a top 8 position, yet he managed do that and win the first Grand Slam in 60+ years with an aging team (John Hayes played every minute of that 6Ns and Horan played most of it as well).

The ABs will be depleted when they come touring this autumn, so its the best chance ever and Ireland did come very close to beating them down there with a very depleted squad after a brusing season. What a pity they had to play them 3 times. Wink A win on home soil is what Schmidt needs to do. Use his Leinster team if need be, but that needs to be sorted, particularly if we are going to meet NZ in the world cup and I don't think we play them again until then.

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 05 May 2013, 10:10 am

I think the main thing he will bring is that attacking philosophy and his horses for courses selections/tactics where he actively attacks an opponents weakness.

Also, I think we will see a bit more tactical agility than we have probably ever seen from another Ireland coach. We have been really bad for working out our plan A isn't working and then continuing with plan A, I think Joe is too smart for this.


Anyone have any dream list of backroom staff????


Head Coach/Attack/Backs -Joe Schmidt
Defence Coach- Les Kiss
Forwards Coach- ?
Scrum Coach- ?
Kicking Coach- ROG???

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 10:31 am

To tell the truth....... I know his name was mentioned for the Irish job itself. And at the time I wasn't gone on the idea (even though I felt it was just a rumour) Didn't like the idea because I thought it would have been an absolute face-slap to Schmidt, and all our own hopes, to have someone else walk in and fill the role.

But now that Schmidt is safely in there. Hmmm........... Shaun Edwards in some capacity would look might tasty for some reason - mostly the reason that I feel the Wales-England game was all him; and perhaps the majority of Wales in Gatland's time was Edwards too.
I just looked at him run around with the players in advance of the England game (warmups)...and he was absolutely in a beligerent fury zone even then. He had them pumped.
So, go chat with him again. "Still annoyed by how Gats treated you, Shaun???" Wink

Schmidt has the tactical awareness - we need a man of driven intensity in there too to kill forever the 'gentle' "Ah sure, so we lost, sure it's not the end of the world" image of Ireland. Malevolence and war-like conviction every time we take to the field.

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 05 May 2013, 10:36 am

Edwards as a defence coach or a forwards coach? Does he have any experience coaching forwards?

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 05 May 2013, 10:41 am

McKenzie as a forward coach? Can't see him biting that cherry, he has his eyes on another prize

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 10:45 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Edwards as a defence coach or a forwards coach? Does he have any experience coaching forwards?

Edwards as a water-boy coach if need be...and he buys it! Wink

He's defence with Wales, isn't he? He's coached backs before. He'd have a link-man perceptiveness about that iffy ground between defending and attacking. The two compartments were so isolated from each other in Ireland that players never felt comfortable moving from one to another. There was not fluidity or any instinctive knowledge of when to turn defence into all out attack.

Defence? The more I think of him, the more I like the idea of him... with Schmidt. A potentially heady mix.

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 10:46 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:McKenzie as a forward coach? Can't see him biting that cherry, he has his eyes on another prize

No, I don't think McKenzie has his sights on being anybody's lieutenant.

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 05 May 2013, 10:53 am

SecretFly wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:McKenzie as a forward coach? Can't see him biting that cherry, he has his eyes on another prize

No, I don't think McKenzie has his sights on being anybody's lieutenant.

Yeah me neither which is a shame cos that could have been one hell of a combo eh?
I don't think Gibbes is going to be moving from Leinster.
Not sure Foley should get it and as someone mentioned above Munster did miss him during the 6Nations.

This is an area I know really little about tbh, can't think of many 'forward' coaches

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Post by majesticimperialman Sun 05 May 2013, 10:59 am

Will schmidt have a clear out of the team?

Will he convince the Likes of Brian O'Driscoll to retire from the international game?......With O'driscoll being in his final year of playing club rugby, do you think he (schmidt) will let him go sooner rather than later?

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 11:05 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Will schmidt have a clear out of the team?

Will he convince the Likes of Brian O'Driscoll to retire from the international game?......With O'driscoll being in his final year of playing club rugby, do you think he (schmidt) will let him go sooner rather than later?

Funny you should say that. Schmidt joked that he organised the supporters of Leinster - (when they beat Biarritz to get to the Amlin final) and in which O'Driscoll was on fire - to chant "One more year! One more year!" He's said O'Driscoll put enough pressure on him (assuming that's to take the Irish job) and he didn't mind putting some back of O'Driscoll.

Nope, he'd like him to stay on for a while yet.

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 05 May 2013, 11:29 am

theslosty wrote:Schmidt-guided RWC team?

1. Healy (Killcoyne, McGrath)
2. Best (Strauss, Cronin, Sherry)
3. Ross (Hagan, Lutton)
4. Ryan (Tuohy, McCarthy)
5. POC (Toner)

This is difficult, we have SOB, POM, Heaslip, Henderson, TOD, Henry

Hmmm...

6. SOB (Henderson, POM)
7. TOD (Henry)
8. Heaslip (Stander)

Now, I like this...

9. Murray (Marmion)
10. Sexton (Jackson, Hanrahan)
12. Madigan (Olding, D'arcy)
13. Marshall (Fitz, Earls, McFadden)

11. Zebo (Conway)
14. Bowe (Gilroy)
15. Kearney (Henshaw)

You better not screw this up, Joe thumbsup

GREAT team, just made two changes to it. Putting in McGrath as another option at 1 this guy is about to really accelerate his learning with VDM leaving us at the end of this season. Also I think you have one too many 10/12's in there so took out Darcy who I figure may not be around. Not sure Marshall is at 13 but you never know I guess I remember Smal saying he had amazing defensive agility he could go from 12 channel and get across to the 13 really quickly when the ball had been passed, that is a good skill for a 13 to have so maybe he could make a name for himself at 13 who knows. Fitz could be good there too I think

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 05 May 2013, 11:55 am

Really good squad there Pete. Plenty more players will be in the mix over the next couple of years for the RWC.

For Leinster alone the likes of Luke McGrath, Martin Moore and Jordi Murphy could be all knocking on the door for a squad place. We are building great dept for the national team.

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 05 May 2013, 12:00 pm

You wouldn't readily associate Joe Schmidt with Jimmy Cagney, but if you were in Leinster's HQ in UCD last week the two might have fleetingly occupied the same space in your mind.


The scene was this: Schmidt's briefing was running over time; his PR man was battling to get the coach away from the table, where he was playing a winning hand, and onto the park where a captain's run needed running. Eh, one more question Joe: "What was the first thing that came into your mind when you got the call telling you the job was yours?"

Schmidt stressed that he didn't want his response spun into a negative context.

"The first thing I thought, was 'what have I got myself into?'" he said. "I can't be any more honest than that. Like I said on Monday, we all have a little bit of fear of the unknown. I feel like I know the game reasonably well. I've lived and breathed the game for the bulk of my years and certainly in the last 12, but this is a whole different ball game."

Then the PR man was shoving him out the door, and dragging him down the corridor, just like poor Jimmy, in Angels with Dirty Faces, was being dragged off to the plug-in chair. And while Jimmy howled like a baby, so it would be reported that he wasn't a poster boy gangster for kids, Schmidt too had a parting shot, fired over his shoulder. "And I don't want you putting a negative spin on that!"

The summit of negativity regarding Joe Schmidt was reached at the end of September 2010 when he oversaw three defeats from four games on his first month in the job. Since then pretty much the only detonations have been love bombs.

He is already Leinster's most successful coach, and by the time he clears his desk in three weeks, Schmidt may well have nailed four titles in three seasons. He didn't so much win by a country mile the race to succeed Declan Kidney, rather he agreed to the formality of going to the starting line.

Next comes minutiae and house-keeping. He touches base with about 40 players this morning in Carton House to sort admin issues ahead of the tours to North America for the senior squad – where the playing group will probably be 28, announced next weekend after the Amlin Cup final – and Georgia for the emerging group.

And all the time bubbling away in the background is the make-up of his support staff. The union handed him a set-piece on the medical and fitness fronts, and told him he had a free hand to pick his coaching staff. The good news for treasurer Tom Grace is that Schmidt is unlikely to go mad on recruitment.

"I think there's a danger in clutter in a coaching group," he says. "Some teams, if you study them, too many chefs spoil the broth. You want to have a good tight group who are complementary and have different strengths. And so you want to try to get that group up and running. It might be three or four full-time people and maybe depending on those full-time people maybe one or two people who come in in the actual playing windows."

If you were to lob a few bob on the runners and riders for that group, then Schmidt as head/attack coach and Les Kiss on defence would be your starters. The likelihood is that the forwards' coach will be a new face, and if he could coach the scrum at the same time then all the better. That would leave a skills/kicking coach to add – and given the straitened times we live in, unless this man is having an input across the country when the international window is closed, then it's not a full-time gig.

Expect Schmidt to put as much time and effort into the search as his predecessor did. And when they are all selected and on the same page it will be a clear message. He says the height of the crossbar won't be the target.

"I'm just not a good bar-setter. There are some KPIs (key performance indicators) that I know will be challenging and they will be outcome-related. I'm very much process-driven. If you don't get the process right . . . if you're looking at the result and you don't get the middle bit right, which is the process to achieve the result, you can't influence the result. You can't guarantee the result. Your influence on it is purely in the processes that you can deliver on the field. So for me, the bar will be set at first of all trying to have a really tight group that are cohesive. That you can have a group that actually enjoy each other's company, that have a real willingness to play for each other.

"One of the challenges I did set for Leinster is to challenge them not to play and promote themselves but to play to promote the players either side of them. If they play well, the players either side of them look good. That's a great measure of how well they're doing. A lot of the hidden work that maybe isn't quite so visible to people – that's the sort of process stuff that if we can get a really strong collective, if we can get people wanting to play for each other and wanting to actually promote each other. It's idealistic, I know, but you want that really competitive co-operation."

First he will need that spirit of co-operation from his employers. When asked if he thought the IRFU's new performance director needed to have a background in rugby – they haven't found him yet – Schmidt started out by saying yes, and then, wondering how it would look in print, hedged his bets by saying that he could live with an alternative. But if his vision for the coaching team is a small, tight-knit group with heaps of rugby experience then you know he's relying on the IRFU delivering the same at their end.

Schmidt admits to being obsessed with being as good as he can possibly be, and that his players are all crystal clear on what they are doing. So does he think the current Ireland set-up allows him to achieve that?

"Look, I'm hopeful that it does," he says. "Again, there's no perfect set-up. I know there are flaws in any set-up. Certainly having coached in the New Zealand set-up and the French set-up they have got some issues at the moment."

You wonder how well he will cope with going from 31-35 games a season down to 10. Imbued with energy, that's a lot of time off, even for a man who appreciates that the gap will allow him bear more of the load with looking out for his son, who suffers from epilepsy.

It suggests that when the squad do come together, every second will count. And in those moments he will reinforce his message on what keeps the show on the road.

"The emotional attachment is what competitive sport lives and dies by," he says. "And you get an emotional attachment because of the effort you see, because of the excitement that's created, because of the tension that exists. All those things go together to create an emotional attachment.

"History creates an emotional attachment. My dad took me to Ranfurly Shield games when I was a kid and when I played in a Ranfurly Shield game I thought, 'wow, this is great'. Except the result. And then when coaching and we won the Ranfurly Shield that was a massive emotional attachment for me. We had people who, for 105 years had been trying to win the Ranfurly Shield and when we finally won it people had a very visible emotional attachment to it.

"It was the same with the Top 14, the Bouclier de Brennus. Unbelievable stories about people who travelled, the fact that there was a reading on the earthquake-measuring equipment because 65,000 people in the Place de Jaude were jumping up and down saying in French 'he who does not jump is not from Auvergne'. There is a massive emotional attachment and I had seen nothing like Clermont until I came up here. Even in the good days with Bay of Plenty and exciting days with the Blues, there was nothing like that emotional attachment that they had until I came here to Leinster."

Recreating that with Ireland is what Joe Schmidt is about now, or at least it will be when he leaves Leinster for Lansdowne Road. He was being self-deprecating when he claimed he didn't know what he had got himself into.

Having had a close look for the last three seasons, the picture is clear enough. All that remains is whether or not in three years he'll be dragged from the scene, Cagneyeseque, kicking and screaming, or if he'll be settling in for a longer haul.

This is really, really positive

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Post by ME-109 Sun 05 May 2013, 12:07 pm

Don't see much in the way of changes in playing personnel . What I would like to see is that he gets the Irish forwards playing with the same tempo as the leinster pack which is all about quick ball for the backline. This is our biggest problem as was shown in the SA and English games.

Other than that I await with interest the autumn internationals

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 12:14 pm

DOD wrote:Don't see much in the way of changes in playing personnel . What I would like to see is that he gets the Irish forwards playing with the same tempo as the leinster pack which is all about quick ball for the backline. This is our biggest problem as was shown in the SA and English games.

Other than that I await with interest the autumn internationals

100 percenter there DOD....as in I agree with it 100%.

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Post by Sin é Sun 05 May 2013, 12:16 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think the main thing he will bring is that attacking philosophy and his horses for courses selections/tactics where he actively attacks an opponents weakness.

Also, I think we will see a bit more tactical agility than we have probably ever seen from another Ireland coach. We have been really bad for working out our plan A isn't working and then continuing with plan A, I think Joe is too smart for this.

Anyone have any dream list of backroom staff????

Head Coach/Attack/Backs -Joe Schmidt
Defence Coach- Les Kiss
Forwards Coach- ?
Scrum Coach- ?
Kicking Coach- ROG???

What are NZ, SA & Aus's weaknesses to attack?

I think you will find that few top international sides have many weaknesses.
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Post by ME-109 Sun 05 May 2013, 12:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:
DOD wrote:Don't see much in the way of changes in playing personnel . What I would like to see is that he gets the Irish forwards playing with the same tempo as the leinster pack which is all about quick ball for the backline. This is our biggest problem as was shown in the SA and English games.

Other than that I await with interest the autumn internationals

100 percenter there DOD....as in I agree with it 100%.

What is the NZ mantra not more than 2 seconds before the ball has to be moved from the breakdown. The other issue is varying the point of attack. Get those two going and we might be halfway there.

What will be interesting is if he gets a game like the SA and Eng games where they just suffocated us what his teams will do. The fabled and highly elusive plan B that apparently Joe is an expert in...

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 12:49 pm

DOD wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
DOD wrote:Don't see much in the way of changes in playing personnel . What I would like to see is that he gets the Irish forwards playing with the same tempo as the leinster pack which is all about quick ball for the backline. This is our biggest problem as was shown in the SA and English games.

Other than that I await with interest the autumn internationals

100 percenter there DOD....as in I agree with it 100%.

What is the NZ mantra not more than 2 seconds before the ball has to be moved from the breakdown. The other issue is varying the point of attack. Get those two going and we might be halfway there.

What will be interesting is if he gets a game like the SA and Eng games where they just suffocated us what his teams will do. The fabled and highly elusive plan B that apparently Joe is an expert in...

They can only suffocate you for so long though. Every side usually has its moments to break out...and that's when what you spoke about in the first paragraph might be more effective.
The issue with Ireland was that Plan B didn't often matter as Plan A made any plan B virtually unworkable. The reason players didn't chase down kicked away ball in bulk or chase after a break-out player to offer him options to right and left was because Plan A meant caution was of primary importance - don't risk attack if it compromises all-in defence.

Players feared losing defensive shape. I keep saying it but as we all oohed and aahed Kearney's chases and catches a few years back...we failed to see that nothing chased after him to make all his heroic high fielding stuff worth it. He was often isolated after his heroic moments and penalised for holding on. End of move. Caution, caution.

New Zealand often risk all out attack by compromising defence. But the risk is worth it because they have attack so well oiled that fear is not part of the deal. Ireland have to learn how to do all-out attack again and trust that momentum, skill and genuine intent will reward them for 'risk'.

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Post by ME-109 Sun 05 May 2013, 1:02 pm

Sure..but then we aren't NZ...nor do we have the same player base

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 1:16 pm

True...but playing to our strengths and actually trying to play offensively will be better than sitting back and letting the opposition play to theirs.

Sitting back and soaking up the pressure of the opposition for far too many minutes in an 80 minute game was, for me, our most common and costly error Ireland committed in the last few years.

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Post by ME-109 Sun 05 May 2013, 1:40 pm

Well in those two games we had more good possession but got bullied up front. It will be interesting to see how Joes teams deal with that. Its what the O's and ASM have done to leinster either recently or in the past.

Its too simple an argument to say we have to play to our strengths..what is that exactly? The change in requirements at international level will be interesting to say the least. Rugby is about doing the simple things well under pressure, its why New Zealand do well. Lets see if we get a Brian Ashton response if things go wrong...

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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Sun 05 May 2013, 1:47 pm

I think that goes back to the PlanB thing. Joe has always been pretty good at getting teams together finding out what's not working and changing tact accordingly.

Northampton were bullying Leinster upfront in the 2011 Final and hay-presto

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Post by ME-109 Sun 05 May 2013, 1:55 pm

The O's and ASM were bullying Leinster upfront and hey pre.....er

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Post by SecretFly Sun 05 May 2013, 2:02 pm

DOD wrote:Well in those two games we had more good possession but got bullied up front. It will be interesting to see how Joes teams deal with that. Its what the O's and ASM have done to leinster either recently or in the past.

Its too simple an argument to say we have to play to our strengths..what is that exactly? The change in requirements at international level will be interesting to say the least. Rugby is about doing the simple things well under pressure, its why New Zealand do well. Lets see if we get a Brian Ashton response if things go wrong...

Our strengths are we are better at and more suited to playing a less physical (hit-them-and-go-to-ground-in-a-wear-them-down-war-of-attrition) game. That's our strengths, running around trouble and offloading out of trouble rather than doing what we've mostly being doing at Ireland...contact, contact, contact...go-to-ground, recycle - repeat as desired. You're a smart guy DOD, I know you've been looking at the exact same shortfalls as I have been. Your own suggestions earlier prove it. We don't have the physicality of a SA, we can't sustain that bang, bang, bang game...and we certainly don't have an unending conveyor belt of players to come in to take over when injuries happen in a series of games (6N/WC).

Ireland won't bully any international side in the physical stakes - certainly not in the immediate future anyway. And yet, what was the mantra we kept hearing? - Earning the right to go wide. That line was in operation not all that long ago at all. It was fantasy then and now. Earning the right to go wide meant softening up the opposition in the first half - impacts, collisions, brute forward muscle. A fantasy.

We don't have the ability to break down an opposition side physically. We do have the same ammo as Wales in that we have players who can be utilised in a strike runner capacity and we have players that can change the line of attack, sustain attacking pressure until openings happen. Not see-sawing across a solid defensive line stagnantly but using pace and multiple line breaking threats to probe for genuine openings and reacting fast when such an opening happens to give real options for the player with ball in hand.

We know how to play...the players have scored enough relatively easy tries. Going back into defensive postures too quickly and too often kills us, as does this idea that we'll physically bully big physically bullying sides.

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Post by ME-109 Sun 05 May 2013, 2:05 pm

Are you EOS in disguise?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 05 May 2013, 2:05 pm

DOD wrote:The O's and ASM were bullying Leinster upfront and hey pre.....er
The 0's certainly didn't bully us on Friday even though they had Adam Jones facing up against Jack McGrath.

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