How does your team rank as a pillager of foreign talent?

by blackcanelion Thu 16 May 2013, 12:31 am

First topic message reminder :

Here's a list of professional teams based on their ability to pillage foreign talent. Foreign talent being players who have grown up in another system. It's based on Wikipedia (with background checks) and looks at the current season (so it's probably not 100% kosher). Where does your team rank?

Legendary pillagers
Agen
Bordeaux
Saracens
Edinborough
Stade de France

Great pillagers
Glasgow
Toulon
Stade Montois
Monpellier
Clermont
Sale
London Welsh
Exeter
Grenoble
Racing Metro
London Irish
Castre
Connacht

Good Pillagers
Benetton
Bairitz
Bayonais
Leicester
Bath
Wasps
Worcester
Perpignon
Zebre
Ulster
Blues (Wales)

Competent Pillagers
Toulous
Brumbies
Gloucester
Northampton
Leinster
Newport
Ospreys

Need to improve pillagers
Force
Rebels
Munster
Scarlets
Harlequins
Southern Kings
Waratahs

Poor pillagers
Hurricanes
Chiefs
Reds
Sharks
Crusaders
Blues (NZ)
Stormers
Cheetahs
Bulls

It's obviously not like with like (NZ, South African and some Australian teams are essentially made of national qualified players). NZ bred players are the most exported (albeit under other nationalities), marginally ahead of South Africa. Both Countries could probably support another 4 super rugby squads based on the number of players living overseas.

England has the most local bred players playing in the four leagues (Celtic, super rugby, top 14 and Premiership). New Zealand and South Africa both have more than France (is this inhibiting French rugby).

It also confirms the theory that no one takes on South Africans like SAracens. In fact it looks like the biggest single foreign nationality tied to any club/region.

An interesting aside are the number of Fijian players in France and how few get released to play for their national side.

Shocked

by thebluesmancometh Thu 16 May 2013, 2:08 pm

Biltong wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Biltong wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Biltong wrote:BLuesman, if Wales is merely looking at cheap labour, in other words average journeymen, the question begs why do they need to do that?

Surely there should be more than enough talent to fill four regional teams?

Oh no, for the love of god, please don't start this.
Not starting anything mate, I am trying to understand if clubs are contracting average players, then surely Wales must have some average players too?At the end of the day these clubs are trying to win, so understandably there is an affordability issue, but why go outside unless there aren't enough quality players.

This is my point exactly, but then you must have seen the shafting I got off some of my fellow Welsh brethren on here for saying it, I am not against NWQ players, I just want good ones, not players of the either the same standard or worst than we have got already.

Well, your opinion is your opinion, and if someone doesn't agree with it, then it is why they give their opinion.

How can you not understand economy though, the WRU would like the regions to fail, and then take control for as little cost as possible. The regions need a 30 man squad but aren't funded well enough to keep a decent 30 man squad, so they sign cheap NWQ players in to get the highest amount of quality players for the least cost possible.

Average Welsh players cost more than average NWQ players, so the regions are signing less of them, the WQ players they bring up through the academy demand big contracts when they perform well, so they are shipped off to someone who can afford to pay them. The WRU would love 4 regions full of academy kids, and are trying to restrict funding to get what they want, the regions want succes so sign cheap players from anywhere to get the best possible playing staff they can for the small budgets they have.

The reality is every country has players of different ability, amateur, journeymen, good quality, star quality and international quality, if you have your own, why import?

by GunsGerms Thu 16 May 2013, 2:31 pm

Its no surprise that the teams that dont pillage much are generally the strongest. Just goes to show that strong home grown talent usually trumps a band of mercenaries. its no wonder Toulouse and Leinster are the Kings of Europe with Leicester and Munster sitting at the kids table close behind.

by Bathite Thu 16 May 2013, 2:36 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Its no surprise that the teams that dont pillage much are generally the strongest. Just goes to show that strong home grown talent usually trumps a band of mercenaries. its no wonder Toulouse and Leinster are the Kings of Europe with Leicester and Munster sitting at the kids table close behind.

and Toulon and Clermont in the final.......with their band of mercenaries

by whocares Thu 16 May 2013, 2:42 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Its no surprise that the teams that dont pillage much are generally the strongest. Just goes to show that strong home grown talent usually trumps a band of mercenaries. its no wonder Toulouse and Leinster are the Kings of Europe with Leicester and Munster sitting at the kids table close behind.

as far as toulouse is concerned, they mainly "pillage" other local french team first so dont have to look abroad that much. they rely on their reputation to attract the best french players. they also have the biggest budget in france so can afford them!

by GunsGerms Thu 16 May 2013, 2:48 pm

Bathite wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Its no surprise that the teams that dont pillage much are generally the strongest. Just goes to show that strong home grown talent usually trumps a band of mercenaries. its no wonder Toulouse and Leinster are the Kings of Europe with Leicester and Munster sitting at the kids table close behind.

and Toulon and Clermont in the final.......with their band of mercenaries

Hope they both lose. Just kidding.

Ill be backing Clermont. They do have a core of rather special French players such as Parra, Bonnaire, Fofana, Rougerie, Malzieu and Domingo.

Point taken though they do have lots of good foreigners but I think their best players are French.

by Geordie Thu 16 May 2013, 3:02 pm

Bathite wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers should surely be top pillagers. We have a knack at picking young foreign players nobody has heard of and making them stars. Who had heard of Treviso's tighthead Castrogiovanni or the semi pro Marcos Ayerza before they rocked up at Tigers? Ditto Mafi, Goneva and Murphy.

We pillage the talent before the country know they have it.

And when that fails, just pillage Newcastle!

Yeah ya bunch of dastardly cads!!! Keep yer mits off the new batch... boxing

Incidently we've always tried to mix good local talent with top class imports (though we have had some duffers)...and hope to continue in that vain.

Previous imports (non british or Irish) include - Pat Lam, Semi Setiti, Inga Tuigamala, Carl Hayman, Matt Burke, Marius Hurter, Owen Finegan.

We've also had a noteable success with recruiting Scottish players...with potentially Mike Blair on his way, and the likes of young LH Shiels really starting to look an impressive proposition...

by thebluesmancometh Thu 16 May 2013, 3:19 pm

So we're agreed, any team that doesn't have a core playing staff of local talent, cultivated from a 10 mile radius, and led by local coaches are pillagers...

uuuhhh...

well thats professional outfits out then!

What about teams like the Sharks who take all the kids from all over SA? the Aus elite system that get the best juniors together at centre of excellence's and distribute them to certain directions? Or the kiwi ability to take in and 'aid' pacific islanders and work hard to put them in a pround NZ tradition?

Are we still using the word 'pillagers'???

by Bathite Thu 16 May 2013, 3:34 pm

bluesman.......cat........pigeons

by thebluesmancometh Thu 16 May 2013, 4:15 pm

Bathite wrote:bluesman.......cat........pigeons

Not really my intention mate, just wanted to make the point all nations and clubs try to get the best players possible by hook or by crook, some do so using money, others reputation and some by migration patterns, either way there is no such thing as pillaging, as there is no such thing as a local team!

I tried to use the Eastern european worker analogy earlier, if there is a huge number of workers flooding to one area are they pillaged? Similar to unsuccesfull NZ players. No offence meant by that, but there is an element of truth in it, does the economy effect NZ players, or do the number of NZ players effect the economy?

I personally would call 'pillaging' to what the Ospreys did to Dragons for a while, Bearman Gough and Fussell were their best players and they were tempted away for monetary gains, whereas the Dragons signing Chavanga certainly wasn't pillaging SA!!!

by Bathite Thu 16 May 2013, 4:48 pm

only jesting.

no one has bitten yet anyways!

by fa0019 Thu 16 May 2013, 5:00 pm

to be honest, taking players which are semi past their sell date probably does the SH a favour... it gives youngsters a chance to get experience in first team rugby.

There aren't many SH players who have moved when they have been first choice for their country. Guys like Frans Louw and Ruan Pienaar only became 1st choice players after they left.

Habana moving to Toulon... about time, the boks need to develop a new left wing as whilst his game is improved he's a shadow of the player he once was and is only going downhill.

Most jump just before they are pushed.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 16 May 2013, 5:21 pm

fa0019 wrote:to be honest, taking players which are semi past their sell date probably does the SH a favour... it gives youngsters a chance to get experience in first team rugby.

There aren't many SH players who have moved when they have been first choice for their country. Guys like Frans Louw and Ruan Pienaar only became 1st choice players after they left.

Habana moving to Toulon... about time, the boks need to develop a new left wing as whilst his game is improved he's a shadow of the player he once was and is only going downhill.

Most jump just before they are pushed.

True. It's the (rare) 1st-choicers who go that we get a little grumpy about - Nick Evans, Carl Hayman. We generally don't begrudge people who've "done their time" going off to earn their pensions. That said, Dave Rennie had a wee moan the other day, seems the cupboard's fairly bare when it comes to injury cover in the backs for the Chiefs http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/8666895/Dave-Rennie-Player-exodus-is-a-huge-issue

by whocares Thu 16 May 2013, 5:27 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil wrote: That said, Dave Rennie had a wee moan the other day, seems the cupboard's fairly bare when it comes to injury cover in the backs for the Chiefs http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/8666895/Dave-Rennie-Player-exodus-is-a-huge-issue

Rennie should be careful in what he says....he might be the next one to jump off the ship and join an european club Wink

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 16 May 2013, 5:31 pm

whocares wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil wrote: That said, Dave Rennie had a wee moan the other day, seems the cupboard's fairly bare when it comes to injury cover in the backs for the Chiefs http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/8666895/Dave-Rennie-Player-exodus-is-a-huge-issue

Rennie should be careful in what he says....he might be the next one to jump off the ship and join an european club

Possibly. But if Steve Hansen dropped dead tomorrow Rennie would be front-runner for the ABs job - and going overseas is a very good way to slip down that rankings list

by thebluesmancometh Thu 16 May 2013, 6:24 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
whocares wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil wrote: That said, Dave Rennie had a wee moan the other day, seems the cupboard's fairly bare when it comes to injury cover in the backs for the Chiefs http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/8666895/Dave-Rennie-Player-exodus-is-a-huge-issue

Rennie should be careful in what he says....he might be the next one to jump off the ship and join an european club

Possibly. But if Steve Hansen dropped dead tomorrow Rennie would be front-runner for the ABs job - and going overseas is a very good way to slip down that rankings list

Is Rennie that high up the pecking order???

by aucklandlaurie Thu 16 May 2013, 9:54 pm

There may not be a pecking order as such, but Rennie would be thereabouts.

We just dont know what to make of Deans and Gatty at the moment. But the All black coach is usually a recent super rugby coach.

by **Notch** Thu 16 May 2013, 10:27 pm

Aw I think we're top class pillagers at Ulster. We don't have many but they are all top class. Thats the way to do it.

by **Notch** Thu 16 May 2013, 10:29 pm

Ulster have come along a lot as a side in the last few seasons, to be one of the sides across Europe that are realistically competing for silverware every year, but when Ruan Pienaar decided to come to us we weren't so good. Midtable and we hadn't made a European quarter-final in 12 years. So it was like the biggest nerd in school taking the prom queen home with him. How on earth did he pull that off?

Top class pillaging. Really first rate.

by Poorfour Fri 17 May 2013, 9:18 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
fa0019 wrote:to be honest, taking players which are semi past their sell date probably does the SH a favour... it gives youngsters a chance to get experience in first team rugby.

There aren't many SH players who have moved when they have been first choice for their country. Guys like Frans Louw and Ruan Pienaar only became 1st choice players after they left.

Habana moving to Toulon... about time, the boks need to develop a new left wing as whilst his game is improved he's a shadow of the player he once was and is only going downhill.

Most jump just before they are pushed.

True. It's the (rare) 1st-choicers who go that we get a little grumpy about - Nick Evans, Carl Hayman. We generally don't begrudge people who've "done their time" going off to earn their pensions. That said, Dave Rennie had a wee moan the other day, seems the cupboard's fairly bare when it comes to injury cover in the backs for the Chiefs http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/8666895/Dave-Rennie-Player-exodus-is-a-huge-issue

Not sure you've got a great case to be grumpy about Nick Evans going - he laid out his stall on the pitch and with the NZ management, and it's no-one's fault but timing and genetics that you couldn't give him the game time he wanted... let's face it, his backup is a fairly decent player.

Anyway, proud to support Harlequins, the worst pillagers in the Northern Hemisphere, the worst non-franchise pillagers - but when we do pillage, we do it properly. As befits our champagne and foie gras reputation, when we nick stuff from overseas we go for the Elgin Marbles or an uncut Koh-i-Noor.

by red_stag Fri 17 May 2013, 9:31 am

Notch wrote:Aw I think we're top class pillagers at Ulster. We don't have many but they are all top class. Thats the way to do it.

Without dredging up the "foreign legion" thing, surely you would have to class Irish qualified lads likes Isaac Boss, Dan Tuohy, Tom Court, Robbie Diack, Sean Doyle, Adam Darcy, Jared Payne etc as being part of that.

Times are definitely changing in that regard though.

by thebluesmancometh Fri 17 May 2013, 9:33 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
There may not be a pecking order as such, but Rennie would be thereabouts.

We just dont know what to make of Deans and Gatty at the moment. But the All black coach is usually a recent super rugby coach.

But didn't Henry and Hanson get into the job becuse of their performances in Wales? Maybe the Kiwi's use us as the acid test, which would mean Gat's is so far ahead of where Henry was it's crazy....

by aucklandlaurie Fri 17 May 2013, 10:16 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
There may not be a pecking order as such, but Rennie would be thereabouts.

We just dont know what to make of Deans and Gatty at the moment. But the All black coach is usually a recent super rugby coach.

But didn't Henry and Hanson get into the job becuse of their performances in Wales? Maybe the Kiwi's use us as the acid test, which would mean Gat's is so far ahead of where Henry was it's crazy....

Any Kiwi that can go and get good results out of wales will be respected down here as a coach, but they also have to get the results at home, and thats what Henry (with Auckland) had going for him compared to Gatty at this stage.

Rennie has not done Gatty any favours by taking over the Chiefs franchise and winning the super xv in his first year of coaching at that level, especially as Gatty is a Waikato man till the day he dies.

by thebluesmancometh Fri 17 May 2013, 10:26 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
There may not be a pecking order as such, but Rennie would be thereabouts.

We just dont know what to make of Deans and Gatty at the moment. But the All black coach is usually a recent super rugby coach.

But didn't Henry and Hanson get into the job becuse of their performances in Wales? Maybe the Kiwi's use us as the acid test, which would mean Gat's is so far ahead of where Henry was it's crazy....

Any Kiwi that can go and get good results out of wales will be respected down here as a coach, but they also have to get the results at home, and thats what Henry (with Auckland) had going for him compared to Gatty at this stage.

Rennie has not done Gatty any favours by taking over the Chiefs franchise and winning the super xv in his first year of coaching at that level, especially as Gatty is a Waikato man till the day he dies.

Well lets not pretend Henry went to NZ to coach, he left Wales for 'time served' in NZ as he was lined up for the role, coaching in NZ was literally a formality! Where did Hanson coach when he moved home? didn't he drop straight into the kiwi set up? Then promoted on Henrys retirement.

Chiefs are looking good again I will give you, and that Super win came a little from nowhere, but surely Gats is an Aus whitewash away from being offered a job 'serving his time' in NZ? Ive never really rated Hanson much, and am pretty sure you could drop 100 semi pro coaches into the kiwi job and they would be as succesfull.

by aucklandlaurie Fri 17 May 2013, 10:41 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
There may not be a pecking order as such, but Rennie would be thereabouts.

We just dont know what to make of Deans and Gatty at the moment. But the All black coach is usually a recent super rugby coach.

But didn't Henry and Hanson get into the job becuse of their performances in Wales? Maybe the Kiwi's use us as the acid test, which would mean Gat's is so far ahead of where Henry was it's crazy....

Any Kiwi that can go and get good results out of wales will be respected down here as a coach, but they also have to get the results at home, and thats what Henry (with Auckland) had going for him compared to Gatty at this stage.

Rennie has not done Gatty any favours by taking over the Chiefs franchise and winning the super xv in his first year of coaching at that level, especially as Gatty is a Waikato man till the day he dies.

Well lets not pretend Henry went to NZ to coach, he left Wales for 'time served' in NZ as he was lined up for the role, coaching in NZ was literally a formality! Where did Hanson coach when he moved home? didn't he drop straight into the kiwi set up? Then promoted on Henrys retirement.

Chiefs are looking good again I will give you, and that Super win came a little from nowhere, but surely Gats is an Aus whitewash away from being offered a job 'serving his time' in NZ? Ive never really rated Hanson much, and am pretty sure you could drop 100 semi pro coaches into the kiwi job and they would be as succesfull.

Hansen went (after wales) into the ABs coaching environment as Henry's off sider, I doubt if either deans or gatland would go down that track, there was some talk that Todd Blackadder got the Crusaders job a few years ago, not because he was better than Hansen but because Hansen had been already identified as one for the top job.

Personally I would love to see Gatland as an All black coach, but not until he put the coaching staff together, and Im sure for him that would have to be at waikato, Trouble is Rennie has his feet under the table there.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 17 May 2013, 11:14 am

Calling a player from England a foreigner in Edinburgh is really the same as the Crusaders drafting in someone from Taranaki. Both cases the players come from the same country. Seems a bit harsh the criteria.

It's an interesting thread though. Do foreign imports add or detract from the countries in which they play their rugby? And how do they affect their home countries from which they left? I get the impression they impact negatively in both cases. For all the experience a foreigner can bring and fresh ideas they might add to the table, you cannot get away from the fact that they take the place of homegrown talent and similarly they create a void in their home country.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 17 May 2013, 11:40 am

Looking at those lists does that mean the Scarlets and Munster are the best for bringing in local talent in the NH?

I think the Scarlets deserve to be above the other welsh regions for pillaging really, seeing as our NWQs were all in the pack this year -:
TH - Adriaanse, Manu
Lock - Earle, Snyman
Backrow - Timani, Vallejos

And without our pack we would have been nowhere near getting into the playoffs.

by thebluesmancometh Fri 17 May 2013, 11:44 am

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Calling a player from England a foreigner in Edinburgh is really the same as the Crusaders drafting in someone from Taranaki. Both cases the players come from the same country. Seems a bit harsh the criteria.

It's an interesting thread though. Do foreign imports add or detract from the countries in which they play their rugby? And how do they affect their home countries from which they left? I get the impression they impact negatively in both cases. For all the experience a foreigner can bring and fresh ideas they might add to the table, you cannot get away from the fact that they take the place of homegrown talent and similarly they create a void in their home country.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 17 May 2013, 11:48 am

You have heard of the UK bluesman?

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 17 May 2013, 11:55 am

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:You have heard of the UK bluesman?

I don't know too many folk (especially when it comes to rugby folk) who class themselves as UK-ian (ok British), as most tend to be Welsh, English, Scottish, Irish etc instead. So as far as rugby goes an Englishman playing in Edinburgh is a foreigner the same as a Mexican playing there would be.

by kiakahaaotearoa Fri 17 May 2013, 12:01 pm

Anyone south of the Bombay Hills is a foreigner to an Aucklander. I know only too well the feeling of Scottish people to English people but you cannot deny geography. Catalonia is not Spain. Not to the neutral observer. Like I said, seems harsh to call that foreign even though I know in the eyes of people who think that is not the case.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 17 May 2013, 12:24 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Calling a player from England a foreigner in Edinburgh is really the same as the Crusaders drafting in someone from Taranaki. Both cases the players come from the same country. Seems a bit harsh the criteria.

Particularly true when "foreigners" like Visser and Tonks ultimately go on to play for Scotland.

by Poorfour Fri 17 May 2013, 1:07 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Looking at those lists does that mean the Scarlets and Munster are the best for bringing in local talent in the NH?

Nope. That would be Quins. You know, the team immediately below them in the list but distinctly above the equator. (Well, to be fair, they might all be about the same, but without the data you can't tell). Our best matchday XXIII comprises 14 products of our own academy, 2 EQPs who arrived as U-23s, 2 EQPs for whom Quins was their first top flight team, 3 furriners unearthed before they were famous, 1 ~~EQP~~ WQP rescued from the injury scrapheap, and the aforementioned Nick Evans.

In a year or so we would be able to field a very decent XXIII in which every position except fly half is filled by an EQP who joined us before they were 23.

by tigerleghorn Fri 17 May 2013, 1:55 pm

Bathite wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers should surely be top pillagers. We have a knack at picking young foreign players nobody has heard of and making them stars. Who had heard of Treviso's tighthead Castrogiovanni or the semi pro Marcos Ayerza before they rocked up at Tigers? Ditto Mafi, Goneva and Murphy.

We pillage the talent before the country know they have it.

And when that fails, just pillage Newcastle!

And when they get old or fail to live up to expectations, send them to Bath Whistle

by The Saint Fri 17 May 2013, 2:07 pm

tigerleghorn wrote:
Bathite wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers should surely be top pillagers. We have a knack at picking young foreign players nobody has heard of and making them stars. Who had heard of Treviso's tighthead Castrogiovanni or the semi pro Marcos Ayerza before they rocked up at Tigers? Ditto Mafi, Goneva and Murphy.

We pillage the talent before the country know they have it.

And when that fails, just pillage Newcastle!

And when they get old or fail to live up to expectations, send them to Bath

George Ford?

by Poorfour Fri 17 May 2013, 2:44 pm

The Saint wrote:
tigerleghorn wrote:
Bathite wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers should surely be top pillagers. We have a knack at picking young foreign players nobody has heard of and making them stars. Who had heard of Treviso's tighthead Castrogiovanni or the semi pro Marcos Ayerza before they rocked up at Tigers? Ditto Mafi, Goneva and Murphy.

We pillage the talent before the country know they have it.

And when that fails, just pillage Newcastle!

And when they get old or fail to live up to expectations, send them to Bath

George Ford?

Old beyond his years. Evidently.

by Bathite Fri 17 May 2013, 3:02 pm

tigerleghorn wrote:
Bathite wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers should surely be top pillagers. We have a knack at picking young foreign players nobody has heard of and making them stars. Who had heard of Treviso's tighthead Castrogiovanni or the semi pro Marcos Ayerza before they rocked up at Tigers? Ditto Mafi, Goneva and Murphy.

We pillage the talent before the country know they have it.

And when that fails, just pillage Newcastle! :laughing:

And when they get old or fail to live up to expectations, send them to Bath :whistle:

Haha!

Well played sir

by tigerleghorn Fri 17 May 2013, 3:52 pm

The Saint wrote:
tigerleghorn wrote:
Bathite wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers should surely be top pillagers. We have a knack at picking young foreign players nobody has heard of and making them stars. Who had heard of Treviso's tighthead Castrogiovanni or the semi pro Marcos Ayerza before they rocked up at Tigers? Ditto Mafi, Goneva and Murphy.

We pillage the talent before the country know they have it.

And when that fails, just pillage Newcastle!

And when they get old or fail to live up to expectations, send them to Bath

George Ford?

Obviously failed to live up to expectations Sad

by **Notch** Fri 17 May 2013, 5:54 pm

red_stag wrote:
Notch wrote:Aw I think we're top class pillagers at Ulster. We don't have many but they are all top class. Thats the way to do it.

Without dredging up the "foreign legion" thing, surely you would have to class Irish qualified lads likes Isaac Boss, Dan Tuohy, Tom Court, Robbie Diack, Sean Doyle, Adam Darcy, Jared Payne etc as being part of that.

Times are definitely changing in that regard though.

No. Why should we class guys with Irish passports like D'Arcy and Doyle and guys with two Irish parents like Tuohy the same as Jared Payne or Robbie Diack?

Payne and Diack are qualified on residency, not EU nationals and require a Visa to work in NI. D'Arcy, Doyle, Tuohy are entitled to live and work anywhere in Europe as a result of their Irish citizenship- they could run for the Aras tomorrow if they wanted to! Seriously if you're a full citizen of a country, you don't count as foreign talent. It's like those lists that put Heaslip and ROG as foreign because they weren't born in Ireland.

by maestegmafia Mon 20 May 2013, 7:44 am

Surely the whole situation is based on financial returns? Clubs like Tigers famously contract smaller clubs gems in England. Dragons lose their star players quicker than Ospreys who managed to re-sign ten top players this year.

France huge budgets dwarf the game. Raising the price of the sport to unaffordable levels.

by red_stag Mon 20 May 2013, 8:17 am

Notch nothing to do with having a passport. Doyle and Darcy were born in Australia, went to school in Australia, learned to play rugby in Australia etc etc they moved to Ireland very recently to secure a professional rugby contract having never lived here before.

Are you really suggesting that is the same as Heaslip or OGara who were born while their parents were abroad and returned home as infants.

by yappysnap Mon 20 May 2013, 9:26 am

Harlequins Yahoo

I'm probably in a minority here in that i'd actually like to see Quins recruit one or two more foreigners. I think we could really use a big nasty SH lock and prop to help bolster our pack and cover for leavers and injuries.

Quality foreign signings with a plan in place for what they'll contribute to the club aren't a bad thing. We get that already from Big Mo (when he isn't slumbering after his meal of raw meat, virgins and Prosecco) and Nick Evans, both of them were signed in the later parts of their careers when they were established and didn't need much work.

We also have a couple of projects in Botica who I think had played a little SR before his move but had about a million other 10's in front of him and also that special foreign project player Kohn who now that he's a quality lock has been poached by Wales.

So 4 foreigners in the squad now with JJ gone. Not bad at all really.

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