Lions backs: From a Wallaby supporters perspective

by bsando Wed 29 May 2013, 1:24 am

I think I am right in believing that the 1997 tour was partly a success due to some rather odd selections? Apart from maybe Hartley (now replaced by Best) and Stevens, it seems a very conservative side to me.

IMO, the backs style of rugby played by Wales will not be enough to beat the Wallabies. There needs to be more of an attacking threat in my opinion, more uncertainty rather than structured, defensive, big hitting tactics.

That is why I feel the backline needs to have more creative players with a couple of big hitters. Something like this..

9. Phillips
10. Sexton
11. Bowe
12. Roberts
13. BOD
14. Maitland
15. Halfpenny

A backline like this..

9. Phillips
10. Farrell
11. North
12. Roberts
13. Davies
14. Cuthbert
15. Kearney

Would be competitive, but very predictable for the Wallabies to deal with. I'd be upset if this backline troubled the Wallabies, although I'd expect a few try's to be scored regardless.

Despite living in the UK, I've watched nearly every Wallabies game for the last few years, as well as a lot of super 15. Some Aussies may disagree with me, but I personally think the Lions backline for the first test needs to be more diverse and provide a lot of attacking options. The key players in my mind, are Sexton, Bowe, Maitland and BOD.

This is mainly because I think they add more than their respective rivals do. Here are a couple of video links showing what I mean...

Maitland:

I feel i need to explain this a bit, as he is not as familiar as the other three and many will not have seen his form for Glasgow. So hear it goes...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04yDUL370Rg

In the video link above, Maitland is off his wing, looking for work. This is something he has been doing a lot for Glasgow and Scotland. He recognises the space in front of him and shows excellent skills to step right of a defender rushing back to tackle him. He has his head up and is aware of his surroundings and what he has to do to score, as also shown in this excellent try https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkhLVHyjI8c

Cuthbert is more of a direct runner, relying on his physicality to get past defenders, as shown in these videos..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6bN2IICG94

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-nak5zOMTk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF97niaY228

He may be fast and physical, but Maitland can defend better, looks for work, has very good footballing skills and is a lot faster. He will be a huge threat to the Wallabies defence. Although I love Scotland and want to see him start, as a wallabies fan, I'm hoping Cuthbert starts. Wallabies will have his number and they have been able to deal with him in the past. Maitland is an unknown entity who has the experience to be a real threat.

Bowe:

Like Maitland, he's a great footballer and reads the game very well, coming off the wing a lot to find work and run good lines. Not much need for videos, we all know what he's capable of. He has to start at 11 in my view, as North has been pretty hot and cold last few years since he burst onto the scene. North is quite direct, like Cuthbert, which I think will be too easy for the wallabies to deal with.

BOD:

Many a cheeky pass or offload he has done, runs brilliant lines and evades defenders. He is a great tactician and will give the Wallabies a headache, hard to contain, even now when he is nearing his last years of international rugby. Alternatives are all talented individuals, but BOD is the man I'm most wary of, especially if he scores. He has the ability to bring the Lions to life and rally them on towards a famous victory.

Sexton:

His use of the wrap around is one of his best attributes in my view, he makes it work very well as shown at 1:13 and 2:57 in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6ci3yl4330

In the same video at 3:15 he kicks a huge drop goal. Only Wilkinson could match that in my view, so he adds even more variety as well as his brilliant ability to kick into space, grubber kick and cross field kick. He is pretty much the full package. Whilst Farrell needs to find the same form he had for England against Scotland, where he made some very nice tactical decisions and passes.

So thats my take on the backs, as someone who supports Australia and fully expects them to win. My heart says Gatland will stick with what he knows, which would be preferable in my opinion, as its what the Wallabies know too, having won the last several string of matches against Wales.

Would you tend to agree? Or do you think directivity and crash balling is the way forward, much like the SA style of rugby? What would be your combos? What are other SH fans expecting to see or options you think will be capable of causing Wallabies problems?

by 100%beefy Wed 29 May 2013, 6:21 am

Keep saying it...Maitland is my bolter

I would like to see

Philipps
Sexton
Bowe
JD2
BOD
Maitland
Kearney

With Youngs, Hogg, Manu and Half on the bench

by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 29 May 2013, 7:13 am

I think you are pretty spot on their Bsando.

Jamie Roberts is the only 12 picked in the squad so it looks like it will be him or Tuilagi there (according to Guardian) so BOD has to come in at OC.

I agree with your other assessments.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 May 2013, 8:10 am

Great article. I really agree with this, if gatland tries to run over the Aussies (and his squad gives the impression that this is plan A) then the lions could lose (I may also begin to support Australia if that's the game they play).

Think your assessments are very astute.
A guy like cuthbert or north I think would be a good option coming off the bench myself but in terms of starters I think we need more. A lot more.

Maitland is class and want to see him start alongside Bowe who embarrassed north in the pro12 semi final. Both are less predictable than the welsh heavies and also time their runs infield better (cuthbert is actually pretty good at this). To have wingers popping up in midfield is one of the best weapons a team can have IMO.

Regarding bod.....he is class, runs a defence so well, creates space for others that many can't even attemp to do. His decision making is also top drawer. However I think he has to bring more than that. He is missing more tackles of late which worries me up againstAAC. Payne and Sinnotti have shown recently that bod's defence is not as good as it was. We also rarely see him break the line in midfield his breaks come closer to the ruck. If he performs well with Roberts again it's hard to see past that pair.

Sexton is a cert, so far ahead of Farrell as a player. No comparison.

Hogg???? I'd be tempted to put him in. 1/2p won't be the goalkicker on this tour the way he is for Wales and therefor I think his value in the XV is significantly less to the lions than to Wales. Hogg is in great form, is lightening, can play a number of positions, kicks 60m from hand. Why not put him in???

Youngs
Sexton
Bowe
Roberts
Bod
Maitland
Hogg

Philips-Farrell-halfpenny

by **George Carlin** Wed 29 May 2013, 9:02 am

True about 97 Bsando.

Everyone expected Evans and Underwood on the wings, but Nick Beal and John Bentley joining them raised a few eyebrows. A masterstroke was playing Scottish centre and league convert Alan Tait on the wing where he smashed everything that came his way and scored a crucial try in the first test.

Most people also forget that our 10 in the first two tests (which we won) was the current manager of Glasgow Warriors.

by BigTrevsbigmac Wed 29 May 2013, 9:12 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Great article. I really agree with this, if gatland tries to run over the Aussies (and his squad gives the impression that this is plan A) then the lions could lose (I may also begin to support Australia if that's the game they play).

Think your assessments are very astute.
A guy like cuthbert or north I think would be a good option coming off the bench myself but in terms of starters I think we need more. A lot more.

Maitland is class and want to see him start alongside Bowe who embarrassed north in the pro12 semi final. Both are less predictable than the welsh heavies and also time their runs infield better (cuthbert is actually pretty good at this). To have wingers popping up in midfield is one of the best weapons a team can have IMO.

Regarding bod.....he is class, runs a defence so well, creates space for others that many can't even attemp to do. His decision making is also top drawer. However I think he has to bring more than that. He is missing more tackles of late which worries me up againstAAC. Payne and Sinnotti have shown recently that bod's defence is not as good as it was. We also rarely see him break the line in midfield his breaks come closer to the ruck. If he performs well with Roberts again it's hard to see past that pair.

Sexton is a cert, so far ahead of Farrell as a player. No comparison.

Hogg???? I'd be tempted to put him in. 1/2p won't be the goalkicker on this tour the way he is for Wales and therefor I think his value in the XV is significantly less to the lions than to Wales. Hogg is in great form, is lightening, can play a number of positions, kicks 60m from hand. Why not put him in???

Youngs
Sexton
Bowe
Roberts
Bod
Maitland
Hogg

Philips-Farrell-halfpenny

I like that back line with Manu on as impact.

by Guest Wed 29 May 2013, 9:15 am

While I agree with the sentiment, and I would much prefer to see running rugby rather than bish bosh, I can't help but feel that this is an element of double standards here (not necessarily intentional on your behalf bsando). We keep being told that the Wales way is has not been effective, and you cannot argue against that with the 8 losses. However, we're also told that the Scotland way has been effective on the last two occasions. On neither of those occasion did Scotland win playing attractive running rugby. Scotland won by snuffing out the opposition upfront and steam rolling them in an arm wrestle. My point is that, while it hasn't worked for Wales (and I'm not sure that the bish bosh stereotype is that accurate as we have scored plenty of tries through the channels too), it has worked for Scotland so I don't think it can be discounted that much against the same opposition.

Also, slightly off point but people say that the squad selection is rubbish in terms of creativity in the backs, all bish bosh, etc. These following players are in the squad and I don't see why they can't be the test back line if they show up well in the warm ups. Plenty of guile here :

Youngs
Sexton
Bowe
Bod
Davies/Tuilagi
Maitland/Cuthbert
Hogg

Apologies if I've got some of the wingers the wrong way round - I never remember which way they go on paper. However, I think that there is plenty of running options in that line up. I've put Cuthbert in because, contrary to his size he's actually more of a running player than a bosh merchant.

by Guest Wed 29 May 2013, 9:16 am

Sorry Pete, only just noticed your post - pretty similar backlines!

by **George Carlin** Wed 29 May 2013, 9:22 am

True Griff. I'll say this for Gatland - he has at least given himself options in terms of taking different styles of player. There genuinely are different options that we can try which will provide a different style of game - I'm comparing Jenkins to Vunipola, Hogg to Kearney, Tualagi to JD2, Gray to Parling and Croft to Lydiate.

With wings - most people will generalise that we have two rapiers (Bowe and Maitland) and two hammers (North and Cuthbert). Let's see what works in the midweek games. My feeling has always been that we need one from each camp. The Wallabies are going to have to match our selections and I think that if we play the two hammers, this means Cummins and Ioane would seem to be the most likely counters.

by Guest Wed 29 May 2013, 9:29 am

George Carlin wrote:True Griff. I'll say this for Gatland - he has at least given himself options in terms of taking different styles of player. There genuinely are different options that we can try which will provide a different style of game - I'm comparing Jenkins to Vunipola, Hogg to Kearney, Tualagi to JD2, Gray to Parling and Croft to Lydiate.

With wings - most people will generalise that we have two rapiers (Bowe and Maitland) and two hammers (North and Cuthbert). Let's see what works in the midweek games. My feeling has always been that we need one from each camp. The Wallabies are going to have to match our selections and I think that if we play the two hammers, this means Cummins and Ioane would seem to be the most likely counters.

It's funny, because the way a lot of people post on here you'd think the above players weren't even in the squad. Nice of you to acknowledge that there is variety in the squad. We just need to look for it!

by thebluesmancometh Wed 29 May 2013, 9:55 am

So let me get this straight, the Welsh backline wasn't good enough against Oz? and the 'Welsh tactics' aren't going to be effective enough for the win?

Lets dissect that though...

V Aus last year Wales scored tries, Cuthbert in particular looked ustoppable because of the Welsh backlines ability to break the line, even Phillips made breaks, and in all tests the backline was reduced (missing Roberts in 3, North) and having the hinderence of a totally exposed and shaky 10. Infact over 4 games last year Wales lost the try count 6-4 didn't they?

In game 1 the breakdown was dominated by Oz, and the likes of Charteris, Warbs, Jenkins (who were all unfit) were demolished, and with no ball carriers in the missing Evans, Falatau, Hibbard etc we lacked a platform. I'd say the summer tests were lost at the breakdown and through individual error late on.

Scotland and Englands recent wins against Oz have both included them nullifying the Oz try threat, everytime theyve been beaten recently it's because theyve failed to score tries. So essentially contain Oz and they look vulnerable.

Then we move onto the theory of bosh merchants, I dislike this term as there are certain players who are deemed so because they use their advantage for the team (ie Roberts and Tuilagi) but to call the backline selected anything like a bosh backline with the likes of Sexton, Farell, Youngs, BOD, Davies, Cuthbert and Maitland who are all extremely succesfull in there roles of avoiding contact is just ridiculous.

Not sure who see's Cuthbert as a hammer, he is extremely weak for his size, he doesn't take contact well but his strength is his ability to reach a top speed, and his abilities in looping at top speed while avoiding defenders.

I think the lions going to Oz looking to play their distributors and to score tries and outscore Oz is a very niaive gameplan, similarly going to Brazil and trying to play open football to outscore the football team, it generally goes one way. We need to go to Oz with the intensity of which they have never seen before, we need our solid defencive players in the side, we need a concise effort at the breakdown (either flood it with power or only allow 3/4 players compete) and we need to out muscle them in every department. Seeing the likes of Phillips, Roberts, Tuilagi, North, Bowe on the team sheet, and doing something about stopping them are 2 different things, the likes of Ioane, Cooper, Genia, Folau, and Leilifano are all good ball in hand but they tend not to relish the physical stuff in defence, the pack will have a monumental battle on their hands that they need to win, or at least gain parity, the backline is where our big advantage is and we need to use it over and over, tieing the likes of Hooper, Gill and Hig into the tight and exploiting the lack of defencive muscle out wide.

The only question marks for me is at FB where I can't decide if 1/2p would be the better option, safe dependable, and will split the posts regularly, or if Hoggs attacking prowess would be a better option if we are to attack the wider channells.

I'd go with...

Phillips
Sexton
North
Roberts
Tuilagi (or I at least want to see this combo at one stage)
Bowe
Hogg

The big threat from Oz is Genia around the fringes, and the odd break in the wider channells, Hogg is going to need a blinder.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 May 2013, 4:23 pm

I think the oz backline is considerably better than the lions one. I think the power game will not have us reaping rewards. The Aussies are used to playin the boks, pumas and blacks who are all scarily physical.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 29 May 2013, 4:29 pm

Green & Gold's views on the centres are worth a read (and a watch)
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/lions-threats-and-how-to-counter-them-centres-and-mid-field-attack/

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Wed 29 May 2013, 4:34 pm

And the inside backs (and back row) for completeness since I can't find that old "Aussie view" thread

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/lions-threats-and-how-to-counter-them-backrow-and-halves/

by BlueNote Wed 29 May 2013, 4:59 pm

On the 97 tour, Ieuan Evans would have been the test wing but got injured.

I'm interested that Bowe is put in on the grounds on creativity - to me, he's not a flair player so much as a player who does all the basics extremely well. I'm not saying I wouldn't have him in my test team, I might well, but I don't think he'd be in there because of providing a flair element North or Cuthbert can't.

Also, there is some serious under-estimation of Jonathan Davies going on here. He is far from being just a bosh-merchant. See Scott Hastings' views on him being justifiable favourite for the test berth. The downside with him is that he is prone to passing without looking.

I'd like to see Youngs (if in form) and Sexton at half-back, probably Davies and BOD in the centre, if BOD is fit enough, Halfpenny at F/B (people seem to forget some defensive errors to which Hogg is prone), and I'm fairly agnostic on the wings, I could see it being North and Bowe or Cuthbert and Bowe, and I'd be reasonably happy with that, but Maitland is in there somewhere.

by thebluesmancometh Wed 29 May 2013, 5:18 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:Green & Gold's views on the centres are worth a read (and a watch)
http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/lions-threats-and-how-to-counter-them-centres-and-mid-field-attack/

Thats not a bad peice (although I dislike the term 'midfield attack') that highlights what Roberts actually offers. He gets slated for not being attacking enough, not being able to distribute etc, but what he offers is a security to the 10 when the blitz comes in, and guarentee'd over the gameline carry (watch Welsh forward when Roberts goes up the guts deep in their own half, they know he's making ground and therefore drift forward from the set peice) not to mention the dummy that can frighten the 10/12 axis after plenty of carries at them.

I disagree that Roberts can't make decisions, in both the clips he shows the inside defence had gone missing who's responsibility it is to make the tackle Croft was too slow to get out and Jones was covering back row mistakes, where he is vulnerable is in a broken defence against dancer types like Cooper, who can get the outide shoulder and commit the guy wider.

I don't think BOD will be the starter either, Davies may well be prefered because of the extra pace, with BOD as a bench option to exploit gaps later on.

What the lions didn't have in SA that they have now is the North and Cuthbert strike runners, of which both drift into the 'Roberts role' off the playmaker, and both have the ability to take contact or hit gaps with more devstation than Roberts had 4 years ago.

I also think the game has moved on from 2009 and Aus defencive systems will be far more complex than SA's was, with the wing options flying in when he feels threatened, and with much more threat to the line in Sexton than they had in Jones or ROG.

by thebluesmancometh Wed 29 May 2013, 5:34 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:And the inside backs (and back row) for completeness since I can't find that old "Aussie view" thread

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/lions-threats-and-how-to-counter-them-backrow-and-halves/

Again a nice piece, I like that he's considering what the players can offer based on previous performances as opposed to what they have been offering of late, it makes analysis that much more in depth and risk free.
A lot of people on here are viewing players as what they offered in recent weeks or months, but forget how players up their game for things like international debut's, when they have to prove something or for a lions tour.

There are however a few tendancies creeping into his view, such as the older style thinking that 1 of the 6 or 8 has to be a narrower player and the other a wider player, I think we can easily see heaslip and Lydiate work well, and Croft and Falatau also.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 29 May 2013, 8:15 pm

Excellent post bluesman.

I think davies' passing is way too poor and there aren't other centres in the team that can supply the width that BOD can and does. In my opinion one of bod and Davies has to start and bod has played and is playing better IMO despite not being in great form.

Bowe was a massive strike runner in s.Africa he broke the line a lot and made many more half breaks too.

Is Hogg not the best of the fullback option considering the opposition??

by thebluesmancometh Wed 29 May 2013, 9:49 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Excellent post bluesman.

I think davies' passing is way too poor and there aren't other centres in the team that can supply the width that BOD can and does. In my opinion one of bod and Davies has to start and bod has played and is playing better IMO despite not being in great form.

Bowe was a massive strike runner in s.Africa he broke the line a lot and made many more half breaks too.

Is Hogg not the best of the fullback option considering the opposition??

Ye Davies has had a few nightmare pass scenario's recently, and BOD is probably ahead of him, but there are questions to be asked of a potential centre partnership...

Does BOD have the pace to defend Aus at 13?

Can BOD last at least 60 at what may be the highest intensity rugby he will ever have played?

Does Tuilagi get totally overlooked at 13? dependant if BOD and Davies are 13 options only?

Can Roberts and Tuilagi work together?

Also I'm not sure that Bowe is as effective strike runner as North who takes contact far better, and Cuthbert who is a linebreak/try scoring machine and importantly looked very potent last summer. I would say Bowe is the front runner right now, and more rounded than Cuthbert and North, but in reality the wing is an area of strength and none of the 4/5 options would let us down.

RE Hogg, he is certainly not the best or most rounded 15 option, Kearney and 1/2p are both better in the air, both better defencively and both better off the boot, what Hogg offers is broken play running, but in reality test 1 will be a tight nervous affair with both teams trying not to make mistakes first and foremost.

For me I would go with Roberts at 12 and Tuilagi at 13, therefore would prefer Hogg as another distributor in the backline, and when I coach I also like to see my FB either used as an extra 10 receiver distributor type (not often) or at another axis at 13 (unless he's more of a strike running type)

Although I think 1/2p and Kearney are the better options at FB, I get the feeling Hogg might just be the secret weapon used at the right time could be devestating, and I get the feeling Hogg might just be the running threat from 10 we are lacking!

by flyhalffactory Wed 29 May 2013, 10:30 pm

100%beefy wrote:Keep saying it...Maitland is my bolter

I would like to see

Philipps
Sexton
Bowe
JD2
BOD
Maitland
Kearney

With Youngs, Hogg, Manu and Half on the bench

Agree with that line-up
With Kearney coming into form smack at the right time, Bowe playing superb since coming back from injury, the North-God playing pretty dire of late and Hogg being looked at as the "utility" player, that could well be my team as well.

Can't see me dropping North if he regains his form however and if he does get back where he should be then I would swap Bowe for North, and Bowe benched instead of 1/2p

by thebluesmancometh Wed 29 May 2013, 10:40 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
100%beefy wrote:Keep saying it...Maitland is my bolter

I would like to see

Philipps
Sexton
Bowe
JD2
BOD
Maitland
Kearney

With Youngs, Hogg, Manu and Half on the bench

The only worry I would have about that backline is Davies distribution from 12, and BOD's outside shoulder in defence, with the likes of Folau and Ioane being extremely sharp off the mark and devestating in the wider chanells.

Agree with that line-up
With Kearney coming into form smack at the right time, Bowe playing superb since coming back from injury, the North-God playing pretty dire of late and Hogg being looked at as the "utility" player, that could well be my team as well.

Can't see me dropping North if he regains his form however and if he does get back where he should be then I would swap Bowe for North, and Bowe benched instead of 1/2p

by king_carlos Wed 29 May 2013, 11:46 pm

9.Youngs
10.Sexton
11.North
12.Davies
13.BOD
14.Maitland - Would love Bowe to find form in the build up though!
15.Halfpenny - I'd like to see him hitting the line more in attack thoug

With Healy, Gray and SOB available in the forwards to come flying onto the ball in the centres I'd much rather see backs those players are capable of running off, hence why I've gone for BOD and Davies in the centres. I'd love to see North, Healy, Gray and SOB running off Youngs, Sexton, Davies and BOD which will create space for Maitland, Halfpenny, Tipuric etc outwide. As such I'd complement that backline with a pack of:

1.Healy 2.Hibbard 3.Jones 4.Gray 5.POC 6.SOB 7.Tipuric 8.Faletau

by sickofwendy Thu 30 May 2013, 12:11 am

No room for the skipper ?

by Hound of Harrow Thu 30 May 2013, 12:53 am

Just a minor point, but you don't often see centres on the bench (e.g. BOD and Tuilagi as some have mentioned).

A likely 21-23 is Youngs (Gatland will start with Phillips), Farrell, who can cover 12 as well as 10, and Hogg or Maitland. If Hogg is back three and 10 cover, then maybe Tuilagi could be on the bench instead of Farrell, as he can play on the wing as well as centre.

by Hound of Harrow Thu 30 May 2013, 1:00 am

Starting berths will be earned during the pre-test games but I reckon Gatland wants to field a back line of...

Phillips
Sexton
Cuthbert
Roberts
BOD
North
Kearney

by sickofwendy Thu 30 May 2013, 10:21 am

When has tuilagi played wing?

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 30 May 2013, 10:24 am

sickofwendy wrote:When has tuilagi played wing?

He's moved out to the wing for England a few times over the last year or 2 IIRC (after a wing's gone off & been replaced by a midfield back). I don't think he's started on the wing though.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 30 May 2013, 10:26 am

sickofwendy wrote:When has tuilagi played wing?

Tuilagi has played and covered wing plenty of times, and with the size of tour and how injuries occur I'd expect to see plenty of players out of position (Hogg at 10 for example)

by sickofwendy Thu 30 May 2013, 11:12 am

So gats is going to employ lancasters policy.

by king_carlos Thu 30 May 2013, 7:30 pm

sickofwendy wrote:No room for the skipper ?

I was just speculating about my ideal line-up in which I'd love to see Tipuric as a link man and Faletau at 8 as a work horse putting in lots of tackles, carries and hitting rucks. If making room for Warburton I'd keep SOB at 6 and put Heaslip at 8 due to his ability to link up with the backs then Warbs can tackle like crazy, fly into rucks etc putting in the hard yards!

Looking at the back row I just really hope that O'Brien gets picked as he offers excellent ball carrying off quick or slow ball which would allow us to pick more creative and unpredictable players in that backs rather than big units to do the heavy duty carrying. I'd like Healy, Gray, O'Brien, etc to take on those gainline runs then let the likes of Youngs, BOD, Davies, Maitland, Bowe, etc loose of the back of it.

by The Saint Thu 30 May 2013, 7:37 pm

bsando wrote:

IMO, the backs style of rugby played by Wales will not be enough to beat the Wallabies. There needs to be more of an attacking threat in my opinion, more uncertainty rather than structured, defensive, big hitting tactics.

So just out of curiosity, do you think the backs style of rugby played by England will be enough to beat Australia? Do you think the backs style of rugby played by Scotland (if they do play a style of rugby that is) will be enough to beat Australia?

bsando wrote:
So thats my take on the backs, as someone who supports Australia and fully expects them to win. My heart says Gatland will stick with what he knows, which would be preferable in my opinion, as its what the Wallabies know too, having won the last several string of matches against Wales.

I don't think a day goes by where we don't hear this.
I love to support the Lions every four years but I also can't wait for it to be over so we can go back to beating everyone's team in the 6 Nations, it really winds people up.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 30 May 2013, 7:44 pm

The Saint wrote:I also can't wait for it to be over so we can go back to beating everyone's team in the 6 Nations, it really winds people up.

I think what winds people up - or more, accurately, frustrates many - is that Wales can play so wonderfully and yet somehow can't demonstrate that prowess against Southern Hemisphere sides. The best way to make people eat their words is for the team to notch up some victories.

by Guest Thu 30 May 2013, 7:58 pm

True rugby fan, but at least Wales' form is logical. I.e. we can beat the teams around our level/ranking and below in the 6N but we struggle against higher ranked opposition. Very logical if you ask me. What is perhaps a bit more bizarre is the likes of Scotland beating Aus and SA but not being able to beat Wales and struggle often against Italy. Not logical. Not having a pop at Scotland, just wondering how/why they can sometimes do it against bigger opposition but not against 'lesser' sides? Lack of drive/motivation maybe?, because results against the SH certainly suggest that they've got the ability.

by reallybored Thu 30 May 2013, 8:05 pm

9 - Youngs

Philips may be favourite and his physical style could be effective against Australia but in my eyes Youngs is the better scrum-half, with good ball he's great at being a nuisance around the fringes and manages a game well, plus he's got a superior kicking game.

10 - Sexton

Excited to see this guy running the show.

11 - North

If he can show the dynamism he had at the RWC he could be awesome in a Lions backline.

12 - Tuilagi

No doubt that Roberts would do a sterling job against Australia but Tuilagi is a different physical species, he's an absolute beast. If he's on song then Gatland can't afford to leave him out, he single handily destroyed New Zealand in November and could give the Aussie midfield nightmares for the next 12 years.

13 - O'Driscoll

If fit you can't leave the maestro out, had a quiet 6 Nations but Ireland were poor around him. He's still one of the best defensive backs in the world, the most experience player in party, has a great combination with Sexton, wonderful at creating opportunities for others and is probably more motivated than anyone to win a Series.

14 - Maitland

Again, I'm sure either Bowe or Cuthbert could be used effectively and do a good job in the Test team but Maitland is a really exciting prospect; good all round skills, awareness, intelligent defender and we're yet to the really see him stretch his legs in the NH.

15 - Hogg

Both Halfpenny and Kearney would do the business but Hogg is something a little special, people seem to have a go at him because he fell off one tackle against Fofana but come on it was one tackle against the best centre in world rugby......how many other 20 year olds are making searing breaks in international test matches or being selected by the Lions as cover for a position he'd never played at professional level? Howley said so himself, x-factor.

by reallybored Thu 30 May 2013, 8:09 pm

Griff that's a very good question and sadly I can't answer it. You have no idea how awful it is being a Scottish fan, they tempt you in by beating Australia then smash you down again with a loss to Tonga.

That's why desperate to see the likes of Gray and Hogg surrounded by the best.

by The Saint Thu 30 May 2013, 8:31 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
The Saint wrote:I also can't wait for it to be over so we can go back to beating everyone's team in the 6 Nations, it really winds people up.

I think what winds people up - or more, accurately, frustrates many - is that Wales can play so wonderfully and yet somehow can't demonstrate that prowess against Southern Hemisphere sides. The best way to make people eat their words is for the team to notch up some victories.

So who is that going to wind up apart from Wales fans? Everyone else cheers on our opposition.

by Seagultaf Thu 30 May 2013, 8:43 pm

Lots of people proposing Tuilagi at 12, I can't recall seeing him play there. Can any of the Leicester supporters out there say if he has played 12 and has the position suited him?

by king_carlos Thu 30 May 2013, 8:44 pm

reallybored wrote:Griff that's a very good question and sadly I can't answer it. You have no idea how awful it is being a Scottish fan, they tempt you in by beating Australia then smash you down again with a loss to Tonga.

That's why desperate to see the likes of Gray and Hogg surrounded by the best.

If Scotland can get all your players fit (or most of them) then you have already got a very good pack and some decent backs now coming together though. I really do think the lack of continuity due to injuries and coaches is hurting you badly at the moment.

1.Grant 2.Ford/McArthur 3.Murray 4.Hamilton 5.Gray 6.Brown 7.Rennie 8.Beattie
9.Laidlaw 10.Weir 11.Visser 12.Scott 13.Grove 14.Maitland 15.Hogg

Something like the above with the likes of Kellock, Harley, Barclay, Denton, Lamont, etc supporting them is the makings of a decent team IMO it's just a case of getting them on the pitch. A similar problem to the one Ireland have as in my eyes they've got an incredible 1st XV if they could just get on the pitch together!

1.Healy 2.Best 3.Ross 4.Ryan 5.O'Connell 6.Ferris 7.O'Brien 8.Heaslip
9.Murray/Reddan 10.Sexton 11.Zebo 12.Marshall 13.O'Driscoll 14.Bowe 15.Kearney

Throw in Strauss, O'Mahony, Madigan, Gilroy, etc and that could be a brilliant side if they got on the pitch. A decidedly better equation than England fans have had, whereby we've had some very good backs available but until Saturday have chosen not to use them! Erm

by Knowsit17 Thu 30 May 2013, 8:51 pm

Not sure I agree with your assessment of Cuthbert. North is certainly more power than creativity but especially based on the clips you've posted, Cuthbert in attack is a mix of both. He has a good turn of pace for his size and a very good eye for a gap, hence his highlights don't really feature him boshing players aside but more so scything through defences at a great angle.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 30 May 2013, 8:57 pm

The Saint wrote:So who is that going to wind up apart from Wales fans? Everyone else cheers on our opposition.

I support England but I wanted Wales and Scotland to win in Australia, and Ireland to beat New Zealand. It would be a bald-faced lie if I said I always want the other Home Unions to succeed outside World Cups and Six Nations - there's sometimes a definite schadenfreude watching a team trip up against a lesser opponent.

by Higher_Ground Thu 30 May 2013, 9:17 pm

Phillips
Sexton
Halfpenny/Bowe
JD2
BOD
Cuthbert
Kearney

All day long....

Youngs, Farell, Bowe/halfpenny, Tuilagi

by Standulstermen Thu 30 May 2013, 10:59 pm

If I were picking a back line I would like to see I would go

Youngs, sexton, maitland, Roberts, BOD, Bowe, Halfpenny

I can't see Gatland (without some serious form issues) going without Phillips and one of north or cuthbert though (probably the former).

Bowe is an absolute must in current form. Picks a line better than any of our outside backs, is in good shape in terms of not playing much rugby and has shown he thrives on tour before. We will see if that translates itself in the warm up games. All you can ask is the guys all get a chance to put their hands up

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