Lions Supporters! What a Joke

I am frankly disgusted at the attitude of many posting here today. The vitriol espoused regarding the composition of the LIONS team picked for Saturday is disappointing in the extreme.

I have followed Lions tours in person since 1993 regardless of who was picked. In the second test in 93 there were 11English players, didn't bother me and I shouted and celebrated the victory as eagerly as any Englishman on tour. In 97 there were only 2 Welsh players, in 2001 3 in 2005 4-5. IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Wales are the dominant side in NH results speak for themselves. There was no outrage when English players dominated squads and teams, England were at the time the dominant force in the NH. The team is as it should be. For what its worth I would have given BOD his swansong, if the test is ultimately won on desire and sheer will then I doubt even now he has many peers.

So I would ask those who have gone way over the top to calm down and get behind the team. Especially if you are in Aus:hug: 

That works both ways, dragonbreath, and some of your fellow countrymen are delighting in stoking the fire  

Maybe you would direct some of your ire their way?

It will calm down, methinks. Hopefully anyway. I for one will be cheering the Lions on Saturday, and every Welsh player has my full support. I have never had a gripe against any player on tour, and I won't after the tour, win or lose. My disappointment is with Gatlands selection. Not Wales.

Well at least Gatland now knows (or may do in 2 days) exactly what Henry felt like.
That it was the selection...not the ineptness of his players that cost them the series. How...convenient.

Taylorman wrote:Well at least Gatland now knows (or may do in 2 days) exactly what Henry felt like.
That it was the selection...not the ineptness of his players that cost them the series. How...convenient.

  Kiwi Wum

Aussies haven't exactly been covering themselves in pride either with their performances, Taylorman. They go through the motions of being a sharp, threatening, attacking side but it so far resembles a boxer dancing around an opponent without really throwing a punch yet.

He better be careful the slouchy boxer doesn't knock in a killer blow as he does his Ali shuffle

Time for both side to stop the phoney war, if they're truly capable of doing so...either of them.

dragonbreath wrote:I am frankly disgusted at the attitude of many posting here today. The vitriol espoused regarding the composition of the LIONS team picked for Saturday is disappointing in the extreme.

I have followed Lions tours in person since 1993 regardless of who was picked. In the second test in 93 there were 11English players, didn't bother me and I shouted and celebrated the victory as eagerly as any Englishman on tour. In 97 there were only 2 Welsh players, in 2001 3 in 2005 4-5. IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Wales are the dominant side in NH results speak for themselves. There was no outrage when English players  dominated squads and teams, England were at the time the dominant force in the NH. The team is as it should be. For what its worth I would have given BOD his swansong, if the test is ultimately won on desire and sheer will then I doubt even now he has many peers.

So I would ask those who have gone way over the top to calm down and get behind the team. Especially if you are in Aus:hug: 

Interesting bit of info ... the last time the Lions won a series there were 2 Welsh players in the team.  

I sincerely hope that I'm not being included in this tirade of abuse on new-found Leosceptics, dragonsbreasts.

Five Tigers have been deliberately included in the pride - and they are an endangered species.

SecretFly wrote:Aussies haven't exactly been covering themselves in pride either with their performances, Taylorman.  They go through the motions of being a sharp, threatening, attacking side but it so far resembles a boxer dancing around an opponent without really throwing a punch yet.

He better be careful the slouchy boxer doesn't knock in a killer blow as he does his Ali shuffle

Time for both side to stop the phoney war, if they're truly capable of doing so...either of them.

Yeah I know, theyve been pretty awful too...but for the first they do have some fairly valid excuses if there is such a thing. The funny thing is the Lions pack was supposed to monster the Oz pack when for us its probably their best feature. We've given up on counting on:
1 The Ozzie pack will be a walkover
2 The ozzie defence is weak.

Both are myths. They have a street savy to them that keeps them in matches, and genuine rugby talent at moments when they decide to turn it on.

So do the Lions, but just probably at a slightly lower level.

Going to be great to see Tipuric and Smith racing eachother around the pack- akin to 'The Mechanic' (The Bronson version of course)

dragonbreath wrote:I am frankly disgusted at the attitude of many posting here today. The vitriol espoused regarding the composition of the LIONS team picked for Saturday is disappointing in the extreme.

I have followed Lions tours in person since 1993 regardless of who was picked. In the second test in 93 there were 11English players, didn't bother me and I shouted and celebrated the victory as eagerly as any Englishman on tour. In 97 there were only 2 Welsh players, in 2001 3 in 2005 4-5. IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Wales are the dominant side in NH results speak for themselves. There was no outrage when English players  dominated squads and teams, England were at the time the dominant force in the NH. The team is as it should be. For what its worth I would have given BOD his swansong, if the test is ultimately won on desire and sheer will then I doubt even now he has many peers.

So I would ask those who have gone way over the top to calm down and get behind the team. Especially if you are in Aus:hug: 

I'll just like suggest that maybe, just maybe some of this is because Internet forums have really taken off now. And from the sounds of it, it did matter in 2005. It really REALLY did. It comes up quite regularly.

its been disgusting really . people on Facebook wanting the lions to get slaughtered because bod not included and there are too many Welsh involved . if Sam was fit Im pretty sure gats wouldn't dare play eleven .

Sin é wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:I am frankly disgusted at the attitude of many posting here today. The vitriol espoused regarding the composition of the LIONS team picked for Saturday is disappointing in the extreme.

I have followed Lions tours in person since 1993 regardless of who was picked. In the second test in 93 there were 11English players, didn't bother me and I shouted and celebrated the victory as eagerly as any Englishman on tour. In 97 there were only 2 Welsh players, in 2001 3 in 2005 4-5. IT DOESN'T MATTER.

Wales are the dominant side in NH results speak for themselves. There was no outrage when English players  dominated squads and teams, England were at the time the dominant force in the NH. The team is as it should be. For what its worth I would have given BOD his swansong, if the test is ultimately won on desire and sheer will then I doubt even now he has many peers.

So I would ask those who have gone way over the top to calm down and get behind the team. Especially if you are in Aus:hug: 

Interesting bit of info ... the last time the Lions won a series there were 2 Welsh players in the team.  

That is a good omen.We have five ties as many this time!

dragonbreath wrote:
Wales are the dominant side in NH results speak for themselves.

Not really, they have the two titles to England's one, but the overall Six Nations table of the last Lions cycle doesn't bear that out, and that's before you factor in that England, Ireland and Scotland have much better records against the Southern Hemisphere, as well as Ireland's phenomenal Heineken Cup record. I'm generally pretty happy with this week's selection, including Davies over BOD, and think the majority of selections can be justified on their own merit, but I'd rather people didn't just justify them by claiming that Wales are on another level from everyone else, when the facts don't bear that out.

..............Played...Won...Drawn Lost...Points
1 England .....20.... 14.... 1..... 5..... 29
2 Wales....... 20.... 14.... 0..... 6..... 28
3 France...... 20.... 11.... 2..... 7..... 24
4 Ireland...... 20.... 9..... 2..... 9..... 20
5 Italy......... 20.... 5..... 0...... 15.... 10
6 Scotland.... 20.... 4..... 1...... 15.... 9

I agree with the general point of your post by the way - to be clear.

Here's the last 10 years if anyone's interested. I'd forgotten just how bad we were in the Robinson era.

..........Played....Won..Drawn.Lost....For..Against..Difference..Tries..points
France...... 50.... 34.... 2...... 14.... 1234 ..844..........390.......122....70
Ireland...... 50.... 31.... 2..... 17.... 1140....887.........253........118....64
Wales....... 50.... 31.... 1..... 18.... 1129....918..........211......103.....63
England..... 50.... 30.... 1..... 19.... 1154....843 .........311......110.....61
Scotland.... 50.... 11.... 1..... 38.... 777.....1184.......-407........51.....23
Italy ..........50.... 9..... 1..... 40.... 653... 1411.........-758........49.....19

thomh wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:
Wales are the dominant side in NH results speak for themselves.

Not really, they have the two titles to England's one, but the overall Six Nations table of the last Lions cycle doesn't bear that out, and that's before you factor in that England, Ireland and Scotland have much better records against the Southern Hemisphere, as well as Ireland's phenomenal Heineken Cup record. I'm generally pretty happy with this week's selection, including Davies over BOD, and think the majority of selections can be justified on their own merit, but I'd rather people didn't just justify them by claiming that Wales are on another level from everyone else, when the facts don't bear that out.

..............Played...Won...Drawn Lost...Points
1 England .....20.... 14.... 1..... 5..... 29
2 Wales....... 20.... 14.... 0..... 6..... 28
3 France...... 20.... 11.... 2..... 7..... 24
4 Ireland...... 20.... 9..... 2..... 9..... 20
5 Italy......... 20.... 5..... 0...... 15.... 10
6 Scotland.... 20.... 4..... 1...... 15.... 9

I agree with the general point of your post by the way - to be clear.

Now you have gone and done it!The Scots have convinced themselves that they are on a roll.They will somehow invert this table and put Kelly Brown up for Pope!

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Now you have gone and done it!The Scots have convinced themselves that they are on a roll.They will somehow invert this table and put Kelly Brown up for Pope!

My god you're right

for England to be so high up all those five loses most must have been against Wales

thomh wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:
Wales are the dominant side in NH results speak for themselves.

Not really, they have the two titles to England's one, but the overall Six Nations table of the last Lions cycle doesn't bear that out, and that's before you factor in that England, Ireland and Scotland have much better records against the Southern Hemisphere, as well as Ireland's phenomenal Heineken Cup record. I'm generally pretty happy with this week's selection, including Davies over BOD, and think the majority of selections can be justified on their own merit, but I'd rather people didn't just justify them by claiming that Wales are on another level from everyone else, when the facts don't bear that out.

..............Played...Won...Drawn Lost...Points
1 England .....20.... 14.... 1..... 5..... 29
2 Wales....... 20.... 14.... 0..... 6..... 28
3 France...... 20.... 11.... 2..... 7..... 24
4 Ireland...... 20.... 9..... 2..... 9..... 20
5 Italy......... 20.... 5..... 0...... 15.... 10
6 Scotland.... 20.... 4..... 1...... 15.... 9

I agree with the general point of your post by the way - to be clear.

Or if you wanted to go 'crazy' and look at how the four teams have done against all oposition the table would look like this:

Team Span Mat Won Lost Draw %
England 2009-2013 46 28 16 2 63.04
Ireland 2009-2013 45 20 22 3 47.77
Wales 2009-2013 53 24 28 1 46.22
Scotland 2009-2013 43 18 24 1 43.02

As I say though, that would be crazy and irrelevant.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:for England to be so high up  all those five loses most must have been against Wales

In four years?

Toadfish - wanted to be sure that it was a fair table A four year Six Nations period has two home and two away versus the same set of teams, so there's no bias in what the fixtures were.

]

Or if you wanted to go 'crazy' and look at how the four teams have done against all oposition the table would look like this:

Team Span Mat Won Lost Draw %
England 2009-2013 46 28 16 2 63.04
Ireland 2009-2013 45 20 22 3 47.77
Wales 2009-2013 53 24 28 1 46.22
Scotland 2009-2013 43 18 24 1 43.02

As I say though, that would be crazy and irrelevant.[/quote]
Yes,that would be crazy as apples and oranges cannot be assessed on the same basis.If all teams had played an identical fixture list then there would be more validity.

thomh wrote:Toadfish - wanted to be sure that it was a fair table A four year Six Nations period has two home and two away versus the same set of teams, so there's no bias in what the fixtures were.

Sorry wasn't meant to be a criticism, just taking your point on another stage. I think a four year cycle should even itself out though in terms of bias so I'd say it should be a pretty good sample.

dragonbreath perhaps you should have a look at the world rankings?

http://www.irb.com/rankings/

Perhaps less puffing out of the chest? If you showed a bit more humility I am sure fans from others countries would be more willing to support you.

Yes you have done well in the 6 nations but against SH sides you have been woeful.

In the last year you've lost to Samoa,Japan and Argentina let alone mentioning the big three.

You need the Irish,English and Scots to show you how to beat the SH sides.

well said thomh and toadfish.

..........Played....Won..Drawn.Lost....For..Against..Difference..Tries..points
Wales....... 50.... 31.... 1..... 18.... 1129....918..........211......103.....63
England..... 50.... 30.... 1..... 19.... 1154....843 .........311......110.....61

Just think how good we poor English might be if we could start scoring tries, relying as we always do on a negative kicking game. Still, its only statistics what can they tell us?

I AM a Lions fan. That is way I am so dismayed about the selection for Saturday.

They will be wearing Lions shirts but that is no Lions team.

Not that that is the fault of the guys in those shirts of course. They have been selected and all anyone can ask is that they tog out and play their best.

But this is not what the Lions is about. That is why Lions supporters are disappointed.

I'm not a Lions fan. thereofre I can laugh and be amused by the whole affair.

I'm just glad Twelvetrees and wade have benefited from usch a wonderful experience, rather than resting up and preparing with their club for the next season.

A furious BOD meets Twelvetrees and Wade in the lobby:  "That foucker just dropped me from the final game!  And me readying my Victory speech and everything...."

Twelvetrees:  "What game are you on about Drico?"
BOD: "Oh sorry, yeah.  The Lions are playing their last game in the series this weekend.  It's a big deal.  It's in all the newspapers and things"
Wade:  "We've been on deckchairs most of the week, we didn't hear about that.  How are they doing?"
BOD: "Well if they dropped me you can take a flyin' f**k guess, Christian.  It's kitchen sink stuff from here on in"

It's just not right to throw Christians to the lions.

Portnoy's Complaint wrote:It's just not right to throw Christians to the lions.

 

I do not know why so many posters above have been creating league tables to show Wales are not the NH's premier team. Just look at the IRB ranking and you will see they are the world's top team.  

MrsP wrote:I AM a Lions fan. That is way I am so dismayed about the selection for Saturday.

They will be wearing Lions shirts but that is no Lions team.

Not that that is the fault of the guys in those shirts of course. They have been selected and all anyone can ask is that they tog out and play their best.

But this is not what the Lions is about. That is why Lions supporters are disappointed.

 First Class post.

HammerofThunor wrote:I'm not a Lions fan. thereofre I can laugh and be amused by the whole affair.

I'm just glad Twelvetrees and wade have benefited from usch a wonderful experience, rather than resting up and preparing with their club for the next season.

For somebody who is not a Lions fan you don't half post a lot on the Lions threads............... or are you just knocking doors and running away giggling

lostinwales wrote:..........Played....Won..Drawn.Lost....For..Against..Difference..Tries..points
Wales....... 50.... 31.... 1..... 18.... 1129....918..........211......103.....63
England..... 50.... 30.... 1..... 19.... 1154....843 .........311......110.....61

Just think how good we poor English might be if we could start scoring tries, relying as we always do on a negative kicking game. Still, its only statistics what can they tell us?

Yeah, we English could play straight ahead, bash it up Rugby instead of our historical running Rugby style. Qh wait........

MrsP wrote:I AM a Lions fan. That is way I am so dismayed about the selection for Saturday.

They will be wearing Lions shirts but that is no Lions team.

Not that that is the fault of the guys in those shirts of course. They have been selected and all anyone can ask is that they tog out and play their best.

But this is not what the Lions is about. That is why Lions supporters are disappointed.

Yes, exactly.

flyhalffactory wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:I'm not a Lions fan. thereofre I can laugh and be amused by the whole affair.

I'm just glad Twelvetrees and wade have benefited from usch a wonderful experience, rather than resting up and preparing with their club for the next season.

For somebody who is not a Lions fan you don't half post a lot on the Lions threads............... or are you just knocking doors and running away giggling

There are a few South Africans, New Zealanders and Aussies hanging around these threads too, Fly.... I don't think many of them are supporting the Lions...although, you never know, some might be, secretly.

MrsP wrote:I AM a Lions fan. That is way I am so dismayed about the selection for Saturday.

They will be wearing Lions shirts but that is no Lions team.

Not that that is the fault of the guys in those shirts of course. They have been selected and all anyone can ask is that they tog out and play their best.

But this is not what the Lions is about. That is why Lions supporters are disappointed.

Can you please clarify why the side chosen is not a Lions team.I don't get the point that you are making.
It would seem that Gatland has chosen players that he feels will win the Test.What is he supposed to do?
I do not agree with his selection but it is his call.

Taffineastbourne wrote:

MrsP wrote:I AM a Lions fan. That is way I am so dismayed about the selection for Saturday.

They will be wearing Lions shirts but that is no Lions team.

Not that that is the fault of the guys in those shirts of course. They have been selected and all anyone can ask is that they tog out and play their best.

But this is not what the Lions is about. That is why Lions supporters are disappointed.

Can you please clarify why the side chosen is not a Lions team.I don't get the point that you are making.
It would seem that Gatland has chosen players that he feels will win the Test.What is he supposed to do?
I do not agree with his selection but it is his call.

I didn't write the quote, so far from me to answer for MrsP but I agreed with what was said.

So for me I am a Lions fan, so for that reason the selection for Saturday hasn't worked because Gatland has not picked the best guys. The idea is take 4 nations who play the game of rugby but play it differently from everyone else and make them better than the sum of their parts.

All he has done is pick his Welsh favourites and hidden behind the excuse of familiarity and is trying to pass over a massive physical test team as the pinnacle of NH rugby. It's all lies.

He has perhaps tried some guile and flair in training and decided it doesn't work. He said before he'll have a back up plan, he doesn't. Now we are stuck with a team full of Welsh players playing the Welsh style of rugby and a couple of cameo's from English and Irish players and a token Scot on the bench.

Like I said SCW all over again. He picked all of his favourites and made the lions play like England and the Welsh lion's fans were very angry.

Take of the Welsh tinted glasses look at it objectively and tell me this isn't the same type of scenario.

He has let the Lions fans down with this bizarre and frankly desperate selection. That is why I am disappointed.

Radge,you seem to haves block as it has been explained time and timeagain when SCW pulled his stunt Wales had just won a Grand Slam:not just a win,not just 3rd place-a Grand Slam.If you cannot see the difference then this would explain a fair bit.
If no Welsh player merited a Test spot or even a touring spot the team selected would be MY Lions side.You cannot pick and choose based on how many of your countrymen are deemed good enough.That attitude appears rather childish to the casual observer.

At least one would not be shocked if Sir Clive wanted to play like England. But Gatland?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:

MrsP wrote:I AM a Lions fan. That is way I am so dismayed about the selection for Saturday.

They will be wearing Lions shirts but that is no Lions team.

Not that that is the fault of the guys in those shirts of course. They have been selected and all anyone can ask is that they tog out and play their best.

But this is not what the Lions is about. That is why Lions supporters are disappointed.

Can you please clarify why the side chosen is not a Lions team.I don't get the point that you are making.
It would seem that Gatland has chosen players that he feels will win the Test.What is he supposed to do?
I do not agree with his selection but it is his call.

I didn't write the quote, so far from me to answer for MrsP but I agreed with what was said.

So for me I am a Lions fan, so for that reason the selection for Saturday hasn't worked because Gatland has not picked the best guys. The idea is take 4 nations who play the game of rugby but play it differently from everyone else and make them better than the sum of their parts.

All he has done is pick his Welsh favourites and hidden behind the excuse of familiarity and is trying to pass over a massive physical test team as the pinnacle of NH rugby. It's all lies.

He has perhaps tried some guile and flair in training and decided it doesn't work. He said before he'll have a back up plan, he doesn't. Now we are stuck with a team full of Welsh players playing the Welsh style of rugby and a couple of cameo's from English and Irish players and a token Scot on the bench.

Like I said SCW all over again. He picked all of his favourites and made the lions play like England and the Welsh lion's fans were very angry.

Take of the Welsh tinted glasses look at it objectively and tell me this isn't the same type of scenario.

He has let the Lions fans down with this bizarre and frankly desperate selection. That is why I am disappointed.

God, what an ego!!

You must be the font of all rugby knowledge as you know so much more than a group of qualified,experienced and successful coaches. Why didn't they ask you to coach the Lions? it's a no brainer!!

A few questions for you. How has he let the Lions supporters down? Why do you speak for all Lions supporters? and do you want me to pick up that dummy you spat out?

beshocked wrote:dragonbreath perhaps you should have a look at the world rankings?

http://www.irb.com/rankings/

Perhaps less puffing out of the chest? If you showed a bit more humility I am sure fans from others countries would be more willing to support you.

Yes you have done well in the 6 nations but against SH sides you have been woeful.

In the last year you've lost to Samoa,Japan and Argentina let alone mentioning the big three.

You need the Irish,English and Scots to show you how to beat the SH sides.

well said thomh and toadfish.

   

Yeah so Wales won a grand slam in 2005 and the selection and game plan by SCW was appalling. This time around Wales has failed to beat Australia in, to be honest I've lost count, 7 attempts in 3 years? I think that this point is equally valid.

I firmly support MrsP, Radge, and the others - this is not a Lions team. Gatland has not been a Lions coach, because he has not come to the series fresh and truly considering the resources he has at his disposal.

Are you seriously suggesting that if Wales had all 4 nations' home players and Gatland was made coach of THAT Wales team, that he would be starting this squad against Australia? Absolute rubbish. Favouritism.

 

Taffineastbourne wrote:Radge,you seem to haves block as it has been explained time and timeagain when SCW pulled his stunt Wales had just won a Grand Slam:not just a win,not just 3rd place-a Grand Slam.If you cannot see the difference then this would explain a fair bit.
If no Welsh player merited a Test spot or even a touring spot the team selected would be MY Lions side.You cannot pick and choose based on how many of your countrymen are deemed good enough.That attitude appears rather childish to the casual observer.

Ok, justify the inclusion of Jenkins. He wasn't fit to begin with and did nothing but warm the bench for Toulon. Answer Gatland likes him

Justify the Selection of Warburton as captain, esepcially when he was stripped of the Welsh captaincy to "focus on his own game". Answer Gatland likes him.

Justify the selection of Lydiate over Kelly Brown, Chris Robshaw, Tom Wood or any of the other blindside flankers who played consistently well for club and country all season. Answer Gatland likes him.

6 of the Welsh lions selected for the pack (Lydiate, Faleteu, AWJ, Hibbard, Adam Jones and Tipuric) were all part of the Welsh Clubs who were destroyed by Glasgow at the close of the season.

Gatland said let the 6N be your shop window to set your stall out and raise your hand for selection but a lot of the top performers were ignored and reputation picks were made to allow Bowe, Lydiate and Matt Stevens the chance to tour.

At the begining of the test he said we want good players as well s "good blokes" so he takes a drug dealer and Dylan "the animal" Hartley on tour.

Can you counter these points? Can you provide facts to respond to my comments or would you rather call me childish?

Can it be written in to the Lions ethos that every team must have at least 3 or 4 Scots in it and also everyone's favourite player however old, slow or undeserving they are.

Some of the stuff written is so pathetic. I am used to the Scots moaning they have little representation despite spending most years competing with Italy for the wooden spoon. And then dragging out the fact they beat Australia A in a midweek game in between Australia's main focus. This somehow makes them the team to beat.

Boring.

The best 13 on this tour has been Jon Davies, so he is selected in his correct position because he has earned it not just because it sould be a nice way to finish. The poor lad must feel like he has shot the pope or something.

The way I see it, the Lions should represent the synergy of the best teams in Britain and Ireland, not just be the best team (which is subjective anyway) with some reinforcements bolted onto it.

Ireland were coming off the back of a grand slam going into the last tour (not to mention Munster winning the Magners League and Leinster winning the HC) so if DK was the Lions coach, and had decided to pick 10 Irish players plus 3 Welshmen and 2 English, and play with the exact same gameplan as he did with Ireland, and when in doubt always pick an Irish player, presumably everyone would be ok with that too then? Because once they’re called the Lions, they are the Lions?

I don’t think so.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote: 

Taffineastbourne wrote:Radge,you seem to haves block as it has been explained time and timeagain when SCW pulled his stunt Wales had just won a Grand Slam:not just a win,not just 3rd place-a Grand Slam.If you cannot see the difference then this would explain a fair bit.
If no Welsh player merited a Test spot or even a touring spot the team selected would be MY Lions side.You cannot pick and choose based on how many of your countrymen are deemed good enough.That attitude appears rather childish to the casual observer.

Ok, justify the inclusion of Jenkins. He wasn't fit to begin with and did nothing but warm the bench for Toulon. Answer Gatland likes him

Justify the Selection of Warburton as captain, esepcially when he was stripped of the Welsh captaincy to "focus on his own game". Answer Gatland likes him.

Justify the selection of Lydiate over Kelly Brown, Chris Robshaw, Tom Wood or any of the other blindside flankers who played consistently well for club and country all season. Answer Gatland likes him.

6 of the Welsh lions selected for the pack (Lydiate, Faleteu, AWJ, Hibbard, Adam Jones and Tipuric) were all part of the Welsh Clubs who were destroyed by Glasgow at the close of the season.

Gatland said let the 6N be your shop window to set your stall out and raise your hand for selection but a lot of the top performers were ignored and reputation picks were made to allow Bowe, Lydiate and Matt Stevens :headscratch:the chance to tour.

At the begining of the test he said we want good players as well s "good blokes" so he takes a drug dealer and Dylan "the animal" Hartley on tour.

Can you counter these points? Can you provide facts to respond to my comments or would you rather call me childish?

Phillips is a wee scallywag too.

In all seriousness though, any Welshman on this forum who states that if there were 10 Englishmen, Scots, Irish whatever, with just a whisper of Welsh, are firmly talking through their granny's tea towel holder.

#FACT!

RuggerRadge2611 wrote: 

Taffineastbourne wrote:Radge,you seem to haves block as it has been explained time and timeagain when SCW pulled his stunt Wales had just won a Grand Slam:not just a win,not just 3rd place-a Grand Slam.If you cannot see the difference then this would explain a fair bit.
If no Welsh player merited a Test spot or even a touring spot the team selected would be MY Lions side.You cannot pick and choose based on how many of your countrymen are deemed good enough.That attitude appears rather childish to the casual observer.

Ok, justify the inclusion of Jenkins. He wasn't fit to begin with and did nothing but warm the bench for Toulon. Answer Gatland likes him

Justify the Selection of Warburton as captain, esepcially when he was stripped of the Welsh captaincy to "focus on his own game". Answer Gatland likes him.

Justify the selection of Lydiate over Kelly Brown, Chris Robshaw, Tom Wood or any of the other blindside flankers who played consistently well for club and country all season. Answer Gatland likes him.

6 of the Welsh lions selected for the pack (Lydiate, Faleteu, AWJ, Hibbard, Adam Jones and Tipuric) were all part of the Welsh Clubs who were destroyed by Glasgow at the close of the season.

Gatland said let the 6N be your shop window to set your stall out and raise your hand for selection but a lot of the top performers were ignored and reputation picks were made to allow Bowe, Lydiate and Matt Stevens :headscratch:the chance to tour.

At the begining of the test he said we want good players as well s "good blokes" so he takes a drug dealer and Dylan "the animal" Hartley on tour.

Can you counter these points? Can you provide facts to respond to my comments or would you rather call me childish?

I did not pick the side,honest!
Gatland was chosen to pick players to win the Series.In his mind he has done this and we will find out on Saturday whether he was right.
Foot stamping and ranting on and on does no one any good.
On the basics election front I am pretty sure that pragmatic Gatland's approach would have been along the lines of:Wales have won the 6N's for the last two years,which guys could get into my side.These were the non Welsh that he took,I am guessing.

doctornickolas wrote:
The best 13 tour has been Jon Davies

Best 13 in tests was Brian O'Driscoll. Roberts should have replaced the 12. But of course Gatland needs units to progress from here. Sexton and Phillips being one important one that has worked well for Ireland.

doctornickolas wrote:Can it be written in to the Lions ethos that every team must have at least 3 or 4 Scots in it and also everyone's favourite player however old, slow or undeserving they are.

Some of the stuff written is so pathetic. I am used to the Scots moaning they have little representation despite spending most years competing with Italy for the wooden spoon. And then dragging out the fact they beat Australia A in a midweek game in between Australia's main focus. This somehow makes them the team to beat.

Boring.

The best 13 on this tour has been Jon Davies, so he is selected in his correct position because he has earned it not just because it sould be  a nice way to finish. The poor lad must feel like he has shot the pope or something.

Can you really justify Gatland not bringing Grant on last week when Vinapola was getting destroyed by the Ozzie scrum? Or worse when Vinapola (who worked really hard all game) was out on his feet in the last quarter was still kept on?

Or why Gatland who supposedly picked the best locks from England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland decided a Flanker (croft) could provide better cover than 2 test match playing locks (Gray and Evans).

Tuilagi and BOD have been the best midfield combination on tour so far.

 

doctornickolas wrote:Can it be written in to the Lions ethos that every team must have at least 3 or 4 Scots in it and also everyone's favourite player however old, slow or undeserving they are.

Some of the stuff written is so pathetic. I am used to the Scots moaning they have little representation despite spending most years competing with Italy for the wooden spoon. And then dragging out the fact they beat Australia A in a midweek game in between Australia's main focus. This somehow makes them the team to beat.

Boring.

The best 13 on this tour has been Jon Davies, so he is selected in his correct position because he has earned it not just because it sould be  a nice way to finish. The poor lad must feel like he has shot the pope or something.

Ho ho ho I certainly cannot wait to bring this wee cracker out after the Welsh Lions fail to beat an understrength Wallabies team on Saturday. 

Mickado wrote:The way I see it, the Lions should represent the synergy of the best teams in Britain and Ireland, not just be the best team (which is subjective anyway) with some reinforcements bolted onto it.

Ireland were coming off the back of a grand slam going into the last tour (not to mention Munster winning the Magners League and Leinster winning the HC) so if DK was the Lions coach, and had decided to pick 10 Irish players plus 3 Welshmen and 2 English, and play with the exact same gameplan as he did with Ireland, and when in doubt always pick an Irish player, presumably everyone would be ok with that too then? Because once they’re called the Lions, they are the Lions?

I don’t think so.

I like the fact that you used synergy, I also don't know if anybody on the planet knows what it actually means, I sure as hell don't. A nice buzzword to throw in!