WHO'S THE BEEEEEST?

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NOLEISTHEBEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes good point. I look forward to seeing more of 23 year old Thomaz Bellucci who has two clay court titles (ATP250) under his belt.

Congrats to Nole on his win. He did outplay Rafa and he deserved the win.

However, I am a little disappointed at some of the gloating going on here. I've always felt there was friendly rivalry between Nole and Rafa fans and I know that Rafa fans have been quick to commiserate with Nole fans in the past when the roles were reversed but some comments here and on other threads smack of kicking someone when they're down.

I don't know cats r cool, I haven't seen too much kicking of Nadal from the Nole fans. I haven't said anything negative about Rafa. Nitb, was just being happy and rejoicing that her favorite won, she didn't denigrate anyone. But there were in my mind a few comments by Sonic boom about how Novak got lucky and the altitude was the reason he won that I found a little bit irritating. But the man is entitled to his opinion as wrong as I think he is.

I have a lot of respect for Rafa and I think most have his fans on this forum have been very respectful, and I think the Novak fans have just been enjoying the victory while not trying to denigrate Rafa. Afterall, how can you, the man has accomplished so much and still has so much more to accomplish. I mean it isn't everyday that your favorite player beats the king of clay.

After a big final were two unbeaten streaks are on the line between the 1 and 2 in the world I think a certain amount of emotion among the fans is natural. But for my part, and the Novak fans I have seen on the forum haven't tried to rub it in. And the Rafa fans have been very gracious, Wooffie in particular has been the model of graciousness. I am sure Nadal will continue to excel and display the talent and sportsmanship that has made him such a great champion, and I think both sets of fans should sit back and enjoy this rivalry which is now the premiere rivalry in tennis.

I doubt Bellucci will do well in Rome he looked like he took a knock at the start of third set against Novak and his problem has never been talent but has been consistency. For a guy as big, athletic, and powerful as he is to have 2 titles to your name at age 23 is a bit of a tragedy frankly. However, if he builds on this result I think he can be a force especially on the clay.

Nole is player so well at the moment...all the promise he's shown over the years has come to fruition and he's really reaping the rewards. It just goes to show it doesn't matter how good you are, your winning streak can come to a end at any time. Rafa did it to Roger, and now he's getting a taste of his own medicine.

It's now down to Rafa and his team to come up with an answer. Rafa will have to try something different....and quickly!

socal1976 wrote:I doubt Bellucci will do well in Rome he looked like he took a knock at the start of third set against Novak and his problem has never been talent but has been consistency. For a guy as big, athletic, and powerful as he is to have 2 titles to your name at age 23 is a bit of a tragedy frankly. However, if he builds on this result I think he can be a force especially on the clay.

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I think without being disrespectful but Nole did get lucky against Belluci the other night.. he had Nole tied up in knots in that first set. moving Nole around the court big time as did Ferrer (WHICH IS the point i was making about Rafa... EXACTLY WHAT RAFA DID NOT DO)i for a big man he can move around clay very well imo and if not for that groin strain may well have made it a closer match. What impressed me was his confidence...We will see but he is one I have my eye on for the rest of the clay season.

Denzilsmom, Rafa has shown a great ability to learn and add new wrinkles to his game. He added some miles per hour to the serve, improved his volleys, and the flat forehand. This is what a rivalry does it pushes you to keep improving. I think maybe this loss on clay will serve as a wakeup call for Rafa and he will probably look at a few tactical changes for the next encounter. Uncle Toni is a genius and Rafa works so very hard so I think what you are asking for will come to pass.

I still have Rafa as the favorite at Rome and at RG, eventhough I am huge Novak fan but lets just say the battle has been joined and the clay court season looks a lot more interesting.

Fair enough Socal. Maybe it was just me being over sensitive. I just thought having a conversation on this forum about how thrilled another forum is at Rafa's loss was a bit too much rejoicing.

Anyway, on to Rome and another battle

Haddie I agree about Bellucci having all the skills. But lets remember that he hurt his groin after Novak had levelled the second set and had snatched momentum, at least that is how it appeared to me. Novak did get fortunate because bellucci was just blistering the ball in the first set and half and he does move exceptionally well. If Bellucci is healthy (and he may not be with the groin that takes a lot of time to heal) he can give anyone problems on clay and pull off more big upsets, but I'd like to see him show any type of consistency from a week to week basis. He definetly at this point could be a dark horse or spoiler in future big events. Quite frankly as Nole fan I am glad he is on the other side of the draw hurt groin or not.

Cats R cool, I am thrilled about my favorite players victory not about Nadal's loss, if Novak doesn't get #1 I hope Nadal does because he is certainly worthy of being the top dog and I like the guy.

I personally would like to see Rafa drop to No.2. for a while... cruise in the shadow of the man who would be king.. its tough at the top and the day to day pressure of staying there. One sure thing in life Nothing, But Nothing ever stays the same. Nole will get to No.1. then lets see how he manages that position... the view is great but then he has to outfox all of his oponents all of the time... its not easy. Fed found that out and now Rafa... so I would like Rafa to take a step back for a little while view his world from a different angle. I think it would do him good.

ٌWell Haddie, I don't want to count my chickens before they are hatched when it comes to the #1 ranking. Currently, Nadal is number #1, but Novak is in excellent position to take that #1 ranking away from him in the coming weeks if he continues to play like he can. And maybe this loss will shake up Nadal a bit for the better, who can tell. I hope Novak does get there because I know it has been a lifelong dream of his and would definetly give him his own legacy in the tennis world.

Well then it may be the best thing all round.. lets face it we all knew that Rafa would not stay there forever... but if I know the Rafa of old winning is not the first thing for him..... he just hates to lose and so if there is a way he will find it. and its normally when he has his back to the wall. So Vamos Rafa

cats_r_cool wrote:Fair enough Socal. Maybe it was just me being over sensitive. I just thought having a conversation on this forum about how thrilled another forum is at Rafa's loss was a bit too much rejoicing.

Anyway, on to Rome and another battle

So I'm the one who's gloating?!!!! That really cannot be further from the truth.

I'll just leave you to your forum then. I'll just update the Rome thread for the rest of the tournament and then I'll be gone.

Hi Green. I've already said it might have been me being over sensitive (you've have obviously forgotten the feeling of sadness when your fave player loses it's been a while since Nole fans have felt that ).

Peace?

Nadal's one dimensional game was exposed yesterday like Davydenko does it on HC.

Nadal never tried to attack first or get to the net> His only way is to tire his opponent by relentless rallies but guess what? he has now a physical match, someone whi is not scared to keep the ball in court knowing that his game is more energy friendly than his opponent.

Not so long ago Rafa was being discussed in terms of "GOAT". Now at the peak of his form, he is not even the best on clay.


I can tell you that this win win will scar Nadal for a long term...exactly like Davydenko is doing on HC. Nadal quickly loses patience on HC v the Russian cause he knows he hasn;t got the weapons to hurt him.

Well look who has arrived... we wondered how long it would be before you showed up... I hope the mods are watching.

Haddie-nuff wrote:Well look who has arrived... we wondered how long it would be before you showed up... I hope the mods are watching.

We sure are Haddie

Welcome to the forum Tenez

Solerina

Sorry, but I have to use a smilie at this latest development

Solerina wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Well look who has arrived... we wondered how long it would be before you showed up... I hope the mods are watching.

We sure are Haddie

Welcome to the forum Tenez

Solerina

Thats what I have to say about that Solerina

Haddie - please control yourself.

Welcome to the forum Tenez

Tenez, nice to see you over here, its me socalfootiefan, you know the guy that you had a 600 post thread over slow court theory with on the old 606, and the guy you said "knows nothing about tennis". I hope you stick around, we need a few more fed Fan's to balance the Novak and Nadal fans. Its fun arguing with you as you have tireless energy, although lacking in my deep understaning of the game.

I'd like to see Novak take Rafa in 5 sets before I make any predictions about the state of this rivalry. I think he can and will do it this year at one of the remaining grandslams. But I won't go Mrs. Djokovic and claim that the "king is dead" until we have seen Novak beat the great Nadal in a five-setter at a major.

Thanks for the welcome ladies and gents.

If you really wish a successful forum you need to be as open minded as possible. As I have always said, wums can be more helpful and more "right" than posters whose sole concern is to appear balanced and moderate but have little insight into the game.

Moderator should moderate what is vulgar and/or obscene but tennis talk should include a wide range of views.

I must say I do not recognise many pseudo here so your orginal 606 psuedo would be welcome.

The reason I did not show up here before is that 606v2 seemed a place owned by Rafa fans...but I am confident those are going to be toned down soon by professional tennis players coming of age.

I'd like to see Novak take Rafa in 5 sets before I make any predictions about the state of this rivalry.
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I very much doubt Rafa can last 5 sets playing guys like Djoko or Murray anymore.
Too gruellling.

Knowing that you are a diehard Federer fan Tenez how do you see Roger performing in the future with the new top two?

On a good day Roger is still the best. But those days are getting rarer.

I think Roger has a good chance to last a couple of years at the very top cause as you may find out today or tomorrow (Nole will probably opt out of Rome), Rafa and Nole will struggle being fit all year round with that kind of tennis so if those top 2 play against each other often enough, Federer might have a good chance to grab titles when the top 2 are injured or exhausted.

Maybe Rome could be Federer's chance this year because of what I just said.

"If you really wish a successful forum you need to be as open minded as possible"

Well, its been very successful so far, but thanks for the advice.

Tenez, welcome to 606V2, I hope your visit is fruitful, but please stick to the topic in future.

cats_r_cool wrote:Congrats to Nole on his win. He did outplay Rafa and he deserved the win.

However, I am a little disappointed at some of the gloating going on here. I've always felt there was friendly rivalry between Nole and Rafa fans and I know that Rafa fans have been quick to commiserate with Nole fans in the past when the roles were reversed but some comments here and on other threads smack of kicking someone when they're down.

Cats,


you know how long (and for a fan, a tennis year feels like a dog's year!)I have waited for this, and hope that none of my comments have caused you any feelings.....

Tenez wrote:On a good day Roger is still the best. But those days are getting rarer.

I think Roger has a good chance to last a couple of years at the very top cause as you may find out today or tomorrow (Nole will probably opt out of Rome), Rafa and Nole will struggle being fit all year round with that kind of tennis so if those top 2 play against each other often enough, Federer might have a good chance to grab titles when the top 2 are injured or exhausted.

Maybe Rome could be Federer's chance this year because of what I just said.

Bon jour, Tenez and welcome ! (sorry that's as far as my French goes...almost...)

NITB (and Green if she pops by) No, was just feeling a little sad this morning and obviously took some comments the wrong way. I know you didn't mean to hurt any Rafa fans feelings

Tenez as usual I find your hypothesis far fetched. I doubt very much that Fed could rely on the exhaustion factor of Nadal and Djokovic to reclaim past glory. In many tournaments Fed will have to go through both players to win the title, where as Nadal and Djoko will only see each other in the final. Therefore I don't see how your thesis holds water.

Cats R cool, it is very nice to see friendly discourse between the two camps. Nitb as Djokovic fans we have sat by for a great many years as Roger and Rafa grabbed all the glory. We must be forgiven for taking joy from this moment in the sunshine.

Thanks NITB. Good to see you here too.

Socal - One of my main point on 606 was that Nadal actually won 3 slams and 3 TMS in 2010 having played only very few top 10. In fact he did not play Djoko before his 3rd slam and that was after Djoko spent all his energy in that USO semi. He did not play Federer in any of the slams in 2010. So the same coudl easily happen to Federer. The game is so physical that the draw is more important than ever and the way you sail through the draw is going to be key.

It' true that those players (Nadal and Djoko) are very consistent when they play but as true to say they are not consistently fit.

Nadal being injured in 4 of his last 7 slams simply tells the story. And wasn't Djoko wearing a knee band and mentioned that he was not 100% before the final?

Those matches are killing them physically. If they meet too often (and add in this players like Murray, Davydenko and Delpo), you may find a few absentees like we have had the whole of 2010.

Tenez wrote:Thanks NITB. Good to see you here too.

Socal - One of my main point on 606 was that Nadal actually won 3 slams and 3 TMS in 2010 having played only very few top 10. In fact he did not play Djoko in his 3rd slam and that was after Djoko spent all his energy in that USO semi.

It's not far fetch to think that those players (Nadal and Djoko) are very consistent when they play but are not consistently fit.

Nadal being injured in 4 of his last 7 slams simply tells the story. And wasn't Djoko wearing a knee band and mentioned that he was not 100% before the final?

Those matches are killing them physically. If they meet too often (and add in this players like Murray, Davydenko and Delpo), you may find a few absentees like we have had the whole of 2010.

Oooohhhh.... we have here a Federer fan!

Not many of them on this forum tbh.

And yeah I kind of agree with your points. Djokovic and Nadal have both not got a great record in terms of fitness, they really can't seem to play a lot injury free, but now we have a new Nole, who I think can last longer than the Nole of 2 years ago and is much fitter. Nadal on the other hand needs to lose some muscle, it'll be a good thing for him. I still think on his best day, no one can beat Federer no matter who it is and even if they're on their best day.

yeah, I know. Let's be clear I am a fan of his game as I don;t really know the persona and feel not many quite appreciate his talent to its full extend cause when exposed to such physical players, even his talent is not enough to beat them up.

But just the fact he can play with them thanks to his talent is a huge success in itself. No other talented players can get close to the top 2 because physically none are in the same league.

Nadal on the other hand needs to lose some muscle, it'll be a good thing for him.
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If he does, his shots will land shorter with less spin. This is what happened in Fall 2009 and we know what the consequences were. That's one reason I think Nadal must have had a tough morning today cause he simply was beaten at his own game. And unlike Federer he can't quite rely on patches of geniuses like Fed had in that O2 for instance. Nadal just has to hope for good draws and a bit of luck from now on.

Tenez wrote: Nadal on the other hand needs to lose some muscle, it'll be a good thing for him.
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If he does, his shots will land shorter with less spin. This is what happened in Fall 2009 and we know what the consequences were. That's one reason I think Nadal must have had a tough morning today cause he simply was beaten at his own game. And unlike Federer he can't quite rely on patches of geniuses like Fed had in that O2 for instance. Nadal just has to hope for good draws and a bit of luck from now on.

A very cynical point of view which I dont agree with.. Rafa makes his own luck

Tenez,


what's your take on this year's Nole's run and his tennis, of course?

Its his time... comes to all players in turn.. he will get to No.1. but I think it will be short lived. Nothing is forever

Haddie-nuff wrote:Its his time... comes to all players in turn.. he will get to No.1. but I think it will be short lived. Nothing is forever

Isn't that cynical?

Iamawesome and Tenez, I don't see where you are coming up with the idea that Novak Djokovic is injury prone or not durable. His two tournament withdrawals this season were more rest weeks that he was taking in order to get away from the grind of the tour and to focus on more important events (without getting sanctioned). He withdrew from Rotterdam because of a "sore shoulder" and then went on to dominate in three successive hardcourt events, and his knee didn't look to bad in madrid. In fact, if you look at Djokovic one of the main reasons he has been so successful is that he has average about 75-85 matches a year for the last 5 years. And in 2009 he led the ATP tour in both matches played and wins. Novak is the kind of player who protects himself and doesn't take risks with injury. And since he has worked out his allergy issues he has had one withdrawal from a match in the last 15 months.

In fact, over the last few years he has been among the most durable players on tour, just look at the number of wins and matches he has played.

noleisthebest wrote:Tenez,


what's your take on this year's Nole's run and his tennis, of course?

Not sure really but you may remember, and it;s there on 606 to see, that I have said for years that Djoko was the real deal, even when the whole 606 was only talking about Murray or Delpo. If anything I am just surprised it took that long as 2010 was a strange year as I thought he would have won a major or two then already.

With Djoko however, he has to be careful with all that running he does. He is a lighter frame than Nadal but he is taller and that can certainly be a problem. In my view he is not agressive enough. Sure he is versus Nadal cause everybody is v him, but against the rest of the tour, I 'd like to see him force the others in doing the running. We saw for instance against bellucci how glad he was just to bring the ball back.

That he will have to change in my view if he wants to last the distance...I mean the long term.

Tenez wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Its his time... comes to all players in turn.. he will get to No.1. but I think it will be short lived. Nothing is forever

Isn't that cynical?

What is cynical about that...it is what Ive said it is his turn which comes to all players in time. I think its short lived because nothing is forever... Look up the word cynical.

In fact, over the last few years he has been among the most durable players on tour, just look at the number of wins and matches he has played. .
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Yep..but he is only 24 and he plays a very physical game...like Murray and Nadal.

The other 2 have already experienced quite a few injury breaks. I fear it might be a questin of time before Djoko joins them. I am pretty sure he is going to pull out of Rome and in any case I seriously doubt that he'll win it or even reach the final.

Tenez, look at the facts, the man has not had a serious injury knocking him out for more than a week or two of the season in the last 5 years. Not even Fed can say that. Novak is a bit careful with himself and at the slightest feeling he isn't right he won't risk it and try to be macho, he will pull out. While his game is physical he is lighter which actually helps you not to injur yourself, less weight on the joints. He has been, knock on wood very healthy in his 7 years on tour. I mean he has missed a week here and withdrawn from a few matches, but that has been the basic extent of his injuries. Murray and nadal are the same age and have had way more serious injuries and Del Po is younger and has had way more injuries. Novak is not quite as defensive as either Murray or Nadal. And his flexibility along with how light he is, is another thing that helps him avoid the serious injury.

Rafa tendinitis in his knees numerous times, abdominal tear, stress fracture in foot.
Delpo serious wrist injury resulting in an operation
Davydenko recently recovering from injury
Andy Murray, wrist and now elbow injury
Gonzales recovering from hip operation
Nalbandian hip operation and hamstring injury.
Verdasco nursing a foot injury
Soderling wrist injury...
Djoko knee strqain
Montfils knees.
Simon was off with injury and so the list goes on

Looks like Federer has played and been beaten by a load of old crocks.

Haddie, its true most every player on tour suffers some injuries or illness if they play long enough. Even federer since 2008 has had mono and chronic back problems that have limited his performance, that is the nature of the tour.