The 606v2 Lions Selection Loosehead

Alright guys!

I figured we could get this going to give us a bit of a heads up on the general consensus of opinions for Lions Test shirts. We'll have a starting XV in no time BUT I am going to leave vote cancelling on so people can change their minds over the next 8 days or so.

Keep the debate honest and punch above the belt. 

Vunipola
The only loosehead left of the original three. Has shown up very well in his warm up games so far. His scrummaging which was feared an issue has not been one (so far - have we played any good scrummaging teams?) and his ball carrying has been both destructive and effective in that after initial contact he looks for offloads.


Corbisero
Has played well enough for London Irish but has had a difficult enough season. Maher came in and took the England shirt off him for a spell and did he have a good game against Combined Country? It was hard to tell, granted the scrum was a weapon but we didn't see much of him outside of that.


Grant
Has been playing some super stuff for Glasgow, displaying a well rounded game from scrumming well to carrying effectively (excluding the semi-final vs Leinster where..yeah...whoops). I was surprised he was not starting the Tah's game as so far he has very little game time in a Lions shirt and this could well stand against him however if playing at 100% of his ability he could well be the most talented all round.

Ok guys get the debate started and get the votes coming in. 
Much love.
Buachaill

15/16 months ago, I tipped Corbisiero to start, I wasn't accountign for injuries and a loss of form but he has talent, Vunipola came out of nowhere there in the last eyar and has been the best loosehead on the tour so he gets it.

Although a late call up - I think Corbisiero will start with Vunipola used as impact (and what an impact that could be).

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Corbisero
Has played well enough for London Irish but has had a difficult enough season. Maher came in and took the England shirt off him for a spell and did he have a good game against Combined Country? It was hard to tell, granted the scrum was a weapon but we didn't see much of him outside of that.

Marler only came in when he was injured.  He's not had a loss of form, he simply hasn't played due to injury.  Should he start for the Lions?  In my opinion, yes, as he is a better player than Vunipola at present.  Having said that, I think that we will see Mako start with Corbs on the bench in the first test.

Vunipola has been one of the best players on tour. However I still feel Grant is the better player. He gets my Vote.

Vunipola all day long (well until 60 minutes).

I can see the argument behind having him as an impact sub coming on for Corbs but he deserves the shirt for his performances - which have been excellent. His fitness is also much improved.

He's been one of the stars of the tour so far and keeps getting better.

Has to be Vunipola, Corbisiero on the bench.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Corbisero
Has played well enough for London Irish but has had a difficult enough season. Maher came in and took the England shirt off him for a spell and did he have a good game against Combined Country? It was hard to tell, granted the scrum was a weapon but we didn't see much of him outside of that.

Marler only came in when he was injured.  He's not had a loss of form, he simply hasn't played due to injury.  Should he start for the Lions?  In my opinion, yes, as he is a better player than Vunipola at present.  Having said that, I think that we will see Mako start with Corbs on the bench in the first test.

Apologies that was mistake after mistake. I think there is something to be said for having Mako coming off the bench. It is kinda why the loss of Healy is such a big blow, Healy starting would cause all sort of problems in the loose and then having another fresh hard running dynamic prop would have been great.

I thought Grant or Corbs would have started this one just so we could have seen them again prior to the Test and not in the game just before it.

I went for Vuni as his form is excellent.

Very disappointed that Grant hasn't been given a chance to impress but then again Rowntree and Gatland obviously didn't want him there so no great surprise.

Vunipola's carrying has been very impressive but we always knew it would be but he hasn't be tested in the scrums yet and it would be a shame to lose another opening Test because of the scrum. 

It would be Grant, best form over the season and most rounded prop, but seeing as he's not got a hope in hell because Rowntree select's the front-row, I'd prefer to start with Corbisiero and bring Vunipola on with 30 to go.

I've gone for Vunipola -  I didn't expect him to make the squad in the first place, I would have taken Grant to begin with. However Vunipola has played well and I think Grant and Corbisiero, despite their abilities, will be disadvantaged by the fact that they haven't been training with the squad and haven't had much opportunity either to become familiar with the game plan or to show what they can do.

So I'd predict Vunipola to start the first test at least, with Grant on the bench as he has been impressive this season and did very well against Australia last year (who played their first choice front row despite being weakened elsewhere). He and Corbisiero have every chance to force their way into the starting XV in the later tests though.

There is a lot to be said for reallybored's opinion. Why not play it "safe" at the start of the first test. The last thing we want is a disadvantage in the scrum, an area where we would feel that we can dominate. Maybe it makes more sense to put Corbs on for the start of the first test, see how the Aussies handle him, bring on Mako (ball carrying et al) and see how the Aussies handle him and then evaluate the pros and cons of starting each player

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:There is a lot to be said for reallybored's opinion. Why not play it "safe" at the start of the first test. The last thing we want is a disadvantage in the scrum, an area where we would feel that we can dominate. Maybe it makes more sense to put Corbs on for the start of the first test, see how the Aussies handle him, bring on Mako (ball carrying et al) and see how the Aussies handle him and then evaluate the pros and cons of starting each player

I agree - but putting the strongest scrummaging front row on at the start isn't playing it "safe".  I think its more about stuffing them at the set piece.

I rate Corbs ahead of Vunipola as a rugby player personally, but I think Vunipola's done enough in the chances he's been given to earn the shirt. Corbs on the bench.

Vunipola has played well so far, although he has not been under much pressure in the scrums. Corbs looked okay against combined counties but not sure how his form has been since returning from injury. As Rowntree is the scrum coach he will have a big say in front row selection. Since Vunipola is the only first choice loosehead standing he will be starting and Corbs, as first choice injury replacement will be on the bench. Grant wont get a look in, regardless of how he plays next Tuesday, unless one of the English lads picks up an injury.
IMO this is very short sighted as Grant is probably the best all round option and is worth at least a bench slot for the first test, given the form and fitness he has displayed all season for Glasgow and Scotland.

Against poor opposition and scratch sides its easy for players who are not set piece proficient to seem better than they are.

Remember Lee Mears and AW Jones in 09. Shane Byrne & Ben Kay in 05.

I'd like to see Corbisiero get some game time on Saturday and make a claim for himself.

Corbisiero every time for me

Corbs...all the way...class player..and a rock...

COrbs - as a few people have mentioned Mako makes quite the impact sub!

fa0019 wrote:Against poor opposition and scratch sides its easy for players who are not set piece proficient to seem better than they are.

Remember Lee Mears and AW Jones in 09. Shane Byrne & Ben Kay in 05.

I'd like to see Corbisiero get some game time on Saturday and make a claim for himself.

Is it not very harsh to take the guy out who has done everything asked of him and more on tour?

Myabe, but it's about what's best for the team, not what's best for one guy.

Mako

Corbs to start - better set piece player than Mako and more familiar with Rowntree's scrum techniques than Grant (plus has had a bit longer on tour to train with the other front row options).

Mako could though be an outstanding impact player to bring on for the last 20 or so.

Thing is about Mako that a few months ago I would have agreed (assuming corbs fit) with corbs then mako - right now I am not so sure