The 606v2 Lions Selection No. 8

Alright guys!

I figured we could get this going to give us a bit of a heads up on the general consensus of opinions for Lions Test shirts. We'll have a starting XV in no time BUT I am going to leave vote cancelling on so people can change their minds over the next 8 days or so.

Keep the debate honest and punch above the belt.  

ps: remember this is not a prediction, it is a "who would YOU select" poll.


Faleteau
Definitely the favourite to take the test jersey coming in to the squad selection. He is seriously abrasive, very good at link play also in that he can take an offload, make contact and then give another offload which is a nightmare to defend against. He is good in defense and does a solid job at the breakdown. He is not really a that positive a lineout option however and can find control at the base of the scrum difficult.

Heaslip
He has been quite (not poor) all year, as he has taken on more of a groundhog role to try and facilitate O'Brien in that regard. Recently he has expanded his game and we see him further out from the ruck busting tackles (not only those of Western Force but also teams like Biarritz, Stade Francais, Glasgow and Ulster). He is an excellent lineout option, great ball carrier, strong in defense and very effective at the breakdown.

Ok guys get the debate started and get the votes coming in. 
Much love.
Buachaill

This is a coin toss for me in terms of who is the better 8, but in terms of balancing the back row and the pack overall, with my other selections I would go Faletau.

I think he's a bit better in the tight than Heaslip, and I have Croft at 6 so Faletau's playing strengths balance my back row better than Heaslip's do.

Heaslip is the more all-round player so I've gone for him.

Ozzy3213 wrote:This is a coin toss for me in terms of who is the better 8, but in terms of balancing the back row and the pack overall, with my other selections I would go Faletau.

I think he's a bit better in the tight than Heaslip, and I have Croft at 6 so Faletau's playing strengths balance my back row better than Heaslip's do.

I felt you would go for this selection Aussie based on your prior backrow choices. So it would be Croft-Falteau-Warbs for you. 
In that backrow I agree that Faleteau would be the right call, you can't really play Heaslip and Croft  without someone pretty tough at 7 or without a mamoth pack, which I guess the Lions have but still not great....


I went for Heaslip as I have SOB-Tipuric on the flanks and Heaslip's rangey dynamism is going to be very useful also he is a great lineout option. I think heaslip is in much better form than Toby but at the end of the day it comes down to what combo you want. I also think Heaslip is in better form than Croft for what it is worth.

I think Heaslip will get the 8 spot.

pete, you've nailed on pretty much what I've said on the openside thread.  All about combinations, and to be honest back row is a real competitive area for the Lions this year.

Yeah big time it was always going to be, Lydiate is the only one who really isn't in it. I guess that Warbs is a little out of it too, but being captain he has a massive chance.

Just out of interest, forgetting talent for a second, would you consider SOB-Heaslip-Tips to be a balanced backrow, whatever about a good backrow?

Heaslip for me, great in the open space. Class when on form (which he is at the moment).

So far the pack is:

Vunipola-Hibbard-Jones
Gray-O'Connell (c)
O'Brien-Heaslip-Tipuric

I'll set one up for the backs later/tomorrow

Heaslip 82%
Tipuric 81%
SOB 46%
POC 100%
Gray 77%
Jones 76%
Hibbard 50%
Vunipola 54%

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:So far the pack is:

Vunipola-Hibbard-Jones
Gray-O'Connell (c)
O'Brien-Heaslip-Tipuric

I'll set one up for the backs later/tomorrow

Bang on!

Heaslip

Pretty close, Heaslip edges it on performance - but I don't think we will worry too much if he gets injured and Faletau comes in

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:This is a coin toss for me in terms of who is the better 8, but in terms of balancing the back row and the pack overall, with my other selections I would go Faletau.

I think he's a bit better in the tight than Heaslip, and I have Croft at 6 so Faletau's playing strengths balance my back row better than Heaslip's do.

I felt you would go for this selection Aussie based on your prior backrow choices. So it would be Croft-Falteau-Warbs for you. 
In that backrow I agree that Faleteau would be the right call, you can't really play Heaslip and Croft  without someone pretty tough at 7 or without a mamoth pack, which I guess the Lions have but still not great....


I went for Heaslip as I have SOB-Tipuric on the flanks and Heaslip's rangey dynamism is going to be very useful also he is a great lineout option. I think heaslip is in much better form than Toby but at the end of the day it comes down to what combo you want. I also think Heaslip is in better form than Croft for what it is worth.

Some great analysis guys, really enjoyed that.

I think with Heaslip at 8 you have a mobile but not that aggressive unit, with Tips at 7 you have a mobile but not a defensive unit, that leaves a massive blackhole at the 9/10/12 channel......... with the Aussie half back channel and speedy centres you are going to need a massive defensive role at blindside that's not in my mind SOB.

The only balanced backrow in my mind will be Lydiate / Warburton / Heaslip especially if you have a big offensive 9/12/13 combo in Phillips/Roberts/BOD

flyhalffactory wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:This is a coin toss for me in terms of who is the better 8, but in terms of balancing the back row and the pack overall, with my other selections I would go Faletau.

I think he's a bit better in the tight than Heaslip, and I have Croft at 6 so Faletau's playing strengths balance my back row better than Heaslip's do.

I felt you would go for this selection Aussie based on your prior backrow choices. So it would be Croft-Falteau-Warbs for you. 
In that backrow I agree that Faleteau would be the right call, you can't really play Heaslip and Croft  without someone pretty tough at 7 or without a mamoth pack, which I guess the Lions have but still not great....


I went for Heaslip as I have SOB-Tipuric on the flanks and Heaslip's rangey dynamism is going to be very useful also he is a great lineout option. I think heaslip is in much better form than Toby but at the end of the day it comes down to what combo you want. I also think Heaslip is in better form than Croft for what it is worth.

Some great analysis guys, really enjoyed that.

I think with Heaslip at 8 you have a mobile but not that aggressive unit, with Tips at 7 you have a mobile but not a defensive unit, that leaves a massive blackhole at the 9/10/12 channel......... with the Aussie half back channel and speedy centres you are going to need a massive defensive role at blindside that's not in my mind SOB.

The only balanced backrow in my mind will be Lydiate / Warburton / Heaslip especially if you have a big offensive 9/12/13 combo in Phillips/Roberts/BOD

I think the choice is between Croft and Tipuric not Tipuric and Warburton. Warburton is too good to leave out. 

If we were looking to play defencive rugby, Lydiate at 6 Warbs at 7 Faletau or Heaslip, most likely Faletau for his tackling, at 8.

But I think we will want to play some rugby, move the Aussies about, starve them of possession and create. Hence we either go for Croft or Tipuric, for me Tipuric has looked the best player in the forwards and has to be our openside. 

Warburton moves across to blindside, he plays a good medium game of attack/defensive strength plus great ball winning, like Tipuric. 

In this scenario I would go for Heaslip at 8.

My choice is Warburton 6 Captain, Tipuric 7 and Heaslip at 8. SOB is the bench guy.

flyhalffactory wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Ozzy3213 wrote:This is a coin toss for me in terms of who is the better 8, but in terms of balancing the back row and the pack overall, with my other selections I would go Faletau.

I think he's a bit better in the tight than Heaslip, and I have Croft at 6 so Faletau's playing strengths balance my back row better than Heaslip's do.

I felt you would go for this selection Aussie based on your prior backrow choices. So it would be Croft-Falteau-Warbs for you. 
In that backrow I agree that Faleteau would be the right call, you can't really play Heaslip and Croft  without someone pretty tough at 7 or without a mamoth pack, which I guess the Lions have but still not great....


I went for Heaslip as I have SOB-Tipuric on the flanks and Heaslip's rangey dynamism is going to be very useful also he is a great lineout option. I think heaslip is in much better form than Toby but at the end of the day it comes down to what combo you want. I also think Heaslip is in better form than Croft for what it is worth.

Some great analysis guys, really enjoyed that.

I think with Heaslip at 8 you have a mobile but not that aggressive unit, with Tips at 7 you have a mobile but not a defensive unit, that leaves a massive blackhole at the 9/10/12 channel......... with the Aussie half back channel and speedy centres you are going to need a massive defensive role at blindside that's not in my mind SOB.

The only balanced backrow in my mind will be Lydiate / Warburton / Heaslip especially if you have a big offensive 9/12/13 combo in Phillips/Roberts/BOD

Interesting opinion, one not mentioned much. It did cross my mind I must say but I do not envisage the Lions having defensive problems in midfield. With Philips doing his standard drift with the ball, Sexton in there and guys like Roberts and BOD at centre I think the Aussies would be very unwise to attack that area, especially if Tipuric is going to be one of the first to that ruck.

Philips is a unit, Sexton is one of the best flyhalves at defending, Roberts is very solid and BOD is an excellent decision maker defensively. 

I would be considerably more worried of the defense between outside centre and wings

So I've gone

1. Corbisiero
2. Hibbard
3. Jones
4. Gray
5. O'Connell
6. Croft
7. Warburton (c)
8. Faletau

16. Youngs 17. Vunipola 18. Cole 19. ??? 20. O'Brien


It will be interesting to see if any performances make me change my mind over the next two games.

Heaslip. Both are class but I can see the Aussies trying to peg us back with kicks to touch so an extra line-out option just gives Heaslip the edge in selection for me.