Scotland V South Africa player ratings

by **RDW** Sat 15 Jun 2013, 6:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

1 Dickinson - 7

Considering everyone thought he'd be mullered in scrums this tournament he's actually done pretty well. Solid against a monstrous pack

2 Lawson - 8

The smallest man in world rugby put in a massive shift - very strong lineout too

3 Murray - 7

Huge effort considering he hasn't trained all week due to a dodgy hamstring. Again kept the scrum solid against a massive pack

4 Swinson - 8

Terrible up and under aside, a very strong debut. Put himself about the park and took it right to the Saffers

5 Hamilton - 7

Would have been an 8 if it wasn't for the yellow, which although soft he should have known better. Was a massive physical presence and an all-round pain in the arse all day

6 Strokosh - 9

Best player of this summer tour so far - I'm often critical of him but he is having his best time in a Scotland shirt

7 Wilson - 6

Did well as a makeshift 7 but went off early. Who is going to play there next week??

8 Beattie - 7

Another solid if unspectacular shift - need much more from him

9 Laidlaw - 8

One of his best displays for Scotland. Has been criticised for slow service and kicking too often but played with real zip today and his goal kicking is such an asset. Huge captains performance.

10 - Jackson - 6

Starting off sharply but went off early

11 Seymour - 7

Very good debut, chasing everything an looking sharp in attack. Stupid offload near the end but we'll put that down to inexperience.

12 Scott - 9

Massive performance. Shame Gatland called up Brad feckin Barrit before watching this game.

13 Dunbar - 8

Much better than last week and formed a promising parternship with Scott

14 Lamont - 7

Did exactly what it says on the tin

15 Murchie - 7

Solid first cap

South African TMO - 10/10

by Imperialbigdave Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:52 pm

You must really dislike your father.

by GLove39 Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:58 pm

George Carlin wrote:Are we still all having problems with the
'quote'
function?

Yes! Don't know what I'm doing wrong!?

by **RDW** Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:25 pm

Imperialbigdave wrote:You must really dislike your father.

I got him wine too!

With regards to quoting, If you click the icon on the far right (switch edit mode) it takes you back to the old style.

by bsando Sun 16 Jun 2013, 11:27 pm

I still reckon Strokers would have been the man to have at 6 for the Lions. Always seems to turn into a beast when a big defensive effort is required.

Seen the highlights now.

wish Scotland hadn't conceded that last try, Denton went far too high, shame really. Thought it was hilarious how long the TMO took to search for a reason not to award 2nd Scottish try. Since when do they start looking for blocks and obstructions from several phases earlier to the try scoring one? I also feel the yellow was uncalled for but in no way would I blame it for Scotland losing.

Loving the way Scotland are going about their business. All they need now is a big performance against Italy to show the progression is there.

Lots of positives to be taken, can't wait for the Italy game.

Swinson/Gray a potential partnership in the autumn?

by GLove39 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 12:07 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Imperialbigdave wrote:You must really dislike your father.

I got him wine too!

With regards to quoting, If you click the icon on the far right (switch edit mode) it takes you back to the old style.

Many thanks RDW, been driving me mad trying to figure out how to reply properly!

by **LondonTiger** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:18 am

bsando wrote:I still reckon Strokers would have been the man to have at 6 for the Lions. Always seems to turn into a beast when a big defensive effort is required.

Yet throughout the 6Ns, the majority of Scottish fans were screaming for him to be dropped from the squad and never to appear again.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:26 am

LondonTiger wrote:
bsando wrote:I still reckon Strokers would have been the man to have at 6 for the Lions. Always seems to turn into a beast when a big defensive effort is required.

Yet throughout the 6Ns, the majority of Scottish fans were screaming for him to be dropped from the squad and never to appear again.

Me included! I've never been his biggest fan but he has massively impressed me this tour.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:35 am

What has been so good about Strokosch this tour?

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:41 am

It's the first time I've actually seen him deliver what he is meant to be renowned for - a tough barsteward who is an absolute rock in defence. He's also been carrying very well for a change and making a difference in the rucks.

by bsando Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:25 am

I was the same, but he really impressed me last year against Australia. He put in a huge effort for that game and was a key part of why Scotland won that match really.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:41 am

I’m still not convinced he’s the best option going forward though, particularly in the 6N. He is a negative player, and I don’t mean that in a derogatory way. He’s like Lydiate – if you’ve got your backs to the wall and are up against a big, physical team then there’s no one better to have in the trenches. However against teams in the 6N we should at least have physical parity (maybe England aside) and I just think we need more than that from our backrow. That’s why Kelly Brown for me is still the main man for the 6 shirt.

by Captain_Sensible Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:49 am

Strokosch has been superb. In the past, he's often been a peripheral player in games - makes his tackles, but rarely has an impact over the ball at the breakdown or with ball in hand. These last two games, he's been all action. Maybe it's the beard.

The best thing for me about the Boks game was the way we attacked the breakdown. We varied between niggly obstructionism or sheer brutality. That's always been a part of Scotland's game, we do it very well, so let's see more of it.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:53 am

Stroks had a good game, and I will take back some of the things I have said about him in the past, but he is a pretty limited guy, a lot like Sean Lamont.

These guys play with Passion and Pride but they know their limitations just like we know them.

With a fully fit backrow I can't see past the Killer B's or Rennie at 7.

Swinson looked really comfy though, for such an inexperienced guy. With all of Gray's Lions experience he'll be coming back from Australia a different player. He'll have learned a lot and IMO could be the next Scottish captain after Brown goes.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:55 am

By the way, going back to the Lions vs. Tahs game.... how good did McKibbon look?!!!

by Captain_Sensible Mon 17 Jun 2013, 9:57 am

Sounds like we're all in agreement with a Swinson/Gray lock combo for the AIs. Hamilton to bench?

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:01 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:By the way, going back to the Lions vs. Tahs game.... how good did McKibbon look?!!!

Yeah he had a really composed performance. would happily have him in the mix for Scotland, but really can't see him coming here!

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:41 am

Brown is a little like Robshaw... good player but position wise there are better 6s, better 7s and better 8s to choose from

I reckon a Strokosch proved again why he's a better 6. Beattie is a good strike runner and we have a number of good opensides to chose from. That would be a better balanced backrow then one inc. Brown.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:47 am

I think we've got to remember Brown hasn't played at 6 for Scotland all season really - he hasn't had a chance to show what he can do there this year.

by fa0019 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:50 am

Players should get a lot of kudos for stepping up like that... it wasn't just a performance where we battled hard. We took the game to them and never under estimate how big it is to perform that was in south africa... very few teams do that.

Their is some mental toughness in there we previously haven't seen.

When was the last time we saw the boys do that against top class teams... not just batten down the hatches rugby... I haven't seen a performance like that from us in over a decade.

by bluestonevedder Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:53 am

Caught about 60 minutes of this game, and I thought Scotland looked very good. Far better than against Samoa. Standout players for me were Strokosch and Swinson. Both looked excellent. Abrasive, carrying hard, and hitting hard. I always thought Strokosch was reliable, but he's been proving his worth on tour so far for Scotland. He doesn't take a backwards step.

Swinson was very impressive for his debut (?) too. Some great shackle tackles behind the gain line.

I actually thought all the debutants performed excellently, against a seriously intimidating team. I actually think SA are probably the most intimidating team to make your debut against, because of the physciality.

Saw in the news that a backrower is likely to get a call for injury cover. Early projections are that it will be Harley. Who's the cover for?

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:54 am

People thinking there are better Scottish 6s than Kelly Brown really need a bit of a reallity check.

Brown is by some distance our best player and best 6. Don't let one monumental defensive performance from Strok sway you, he was awesome in the summer tour last year in our wins over Aus, Fiji and Samoa and then all of a sudden went AWOL in games again like he did in the AI's.

Strok can blow seriously hot and cold but Brown has never let anyone down playing for Scotland. Comparing him to Robshaw in truth is a compliment. I think Robshaw is England's best player too.

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 10:59 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:By the way, going back to the Lions vs. Tahs game.... how good did McKibbon look?!!!

Yeah he had a really composed performance. would happily have him in the mix for Scotland, but really can't see him coming here!

No slagging off a fellow man of Irvine, now. warning

I'd love to know what McKibbin thinks about his international prospects. He's only been on the bench for the Wallabies once and so technically has never been capped. He'll be 28 soon, 6 years older than Nic White whom Deans seems to like, 4 years older than Nick Phipps (who already has a dozen caps) and 3 years older than Genia. Is it better to have 5 caps for the Wallabies than 25 for Scotland? I genuinely don't know what I would think about it if I was him.

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:00 am

fa0019 wrote:Players should get a lot of kudos for stepping up like that... it wasn't just a performance where we battled hard. We took the game to them and never under estimate how big it is to perform that was in south africa... very few teams do that.

Their is some mental toughness in there we previously haven't seen.

When was the last time we saw the boys do that against top class teams... not just batten down the hatches rugby... I haven't seen a performance like that from us in over a decade.

Fa - are you secretly a jock? Well I never... Erm

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 11:02 am

Have I been slagging him off gc?

by funnyExiledScot Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:12 pm

On the Strokosch vs Brown point I agree that Brown is the more complete player. He adds a lineout option and has better hands than Strokosch. What is clear though is that Strokosch is in excellent form, and his carrying game has improved hugely in the last couple of years - exactly what Rob Harley needs to work on.

Brown still very much our first choice 6, but on that sort of form Strokosch is very close behind and an able deputy. He's certainly a distance ahead of Rob Harley at the moment.

Brown, Rennie and Beattie would be my first choice trio for next season.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:16 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Have I been slagging him off gc?

Irvine is a place as well as a man RDW... god you metrosexual backs really need to go back to school or something... laughing

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:21 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Have I been slagging him off gc?

Irvine is a place as well as a man RDW... god you metrosexual backs really need to go back to school or something...

I'm confused...

I said

Yeah he had a really composed performance. would happily have him in the mix for Scotland, but really can't see him coming here!

And GC says not to slag off a fellow man from Irvine....! Headscratch

by Pat_Mustard Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:57 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:By the way, going back to the Lions vs. Tahs game.... how good did McKibbon look?!!!

Yeah he had a really composed performance. would happily have him in the mix for Scotland, but really can't see him coming here!
No slagging off a fellow man of Irvine, now.

I'd love to know what McKibbin thinks about his international prospects. He's only been on the bench for the Wallabies once and so technically has never been capped. He'll be 28 soon, 6 years older than Nic White whom Deans seems to like, 4 years older than Nick Phipps (who already has a dozen caps) and 3 years older than Genia. Is it better to have 5 caps for the Wallabies than 25 for Scotland? I genuinely don't know what I would think about it if I was him.

Could be wrong but I think that would mean he is tied to Australia, based on the bit in bold below:

8.3
For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if:

(a) He is selected for such team to play in an International Match against the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union (or in a fifteen-a-side international Match against another Union’s senior or next senior Touring Squad during an IRB approved International Tour) and is present at the Match played by that team either as a replacement, substitute or a playing member of that team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority

Doesn't say the replacements have to actually get on the pitch, or receive "caps" to be tied.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 1:59 pm

Surely you have to actually get on the pitch to get a cap?

That's why McArthur's first cap was last week - he didn't get off the bench in the 6N.

by Pat_Mustard Mon 17 Jun 2013, 2:01 pm

Yes but "caps" are just ceremonial things the unions hand out, they don't have to follow the same rules as eligibility

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 2:03 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Have I been slagging him off gc?

Irvine is a place as well as a man RDW... god you metrosexual backs really need to go back to school or something...

I'm confused...

I said

Yeah he had a really composed performance. would happily have him in the mix for Scotland, but really can't see him coming here!

And GC says not to slag off a fellow man from Irvine....!

Confused. You will be. I was born in Irvine and now I'm here in the sandpit. Just think about how confused that makes me.

And nope, you didn't slag the turncoat, johnny-come-lately off. That's totally my job.

by GLove39 Mon 17 Jun 2013, 5:46 pm

Pleased to see that Scott, Strockosh & Swinson all made Planet Rugby's team of the weekend.

by sensisball Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:51 pm

Sorry to muck up the plan of playing Gray and Swinson together but they are both 4's not 5's. Neither of them can jump effectively in the middle of the line. Now a starting lock pair of Gray and Ryder with Swinson on the bench would add a huge amount of power, dynamism and mobility to the Scotland boiler room. Ryder may be 4 inches shorter than Gray but as Victor Matfield ( at 6 ft 5 ins) showed you dont have to be a giant to rule the lineout.
At the very least Swinson's performance highlights how unready Grant Gilchrist is for international rugby.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 17 Jun 2013, 7:53 pm

Victor Matfield is 6 foot 7.

by **George Carlin** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:09 pm

Bob the Ginger Tackle Monster called up for the Italian Job due to the injury to Wilson:

Rob Harley, the 23-year-old Glasgow Warriors forward, has joined the Scotland squad on their tour of South Africa.

Harley will leave from Glasgow on Monday and is due to arrive in Johannesburg on Tuesday afternoon. Scotland complete their programme in the quadrangular tournament with a match against Italy in Pretoria on Saturday.

Harley, who made a try-scoring debut on last year's tour to Australasia, has won four caps, his most recent outing occurring against Wales in the Six Nations Championship back in March.

"In light of the injury sustained by Ryan Wilson in Nelspruit which ended his tour and the fact that we were already down in the back-row following the injury departure of Kelly Brown the previous week, we've decided to call on Rob," said Scotland team manager Gavin Scott.

"It's amazing to be called-up to the Scotland tour," said Rob Harley.

"I came in last week for pre-season training with Glasgow and wasn't expecting to get the call so it's a bit of a shock but very exciting.

"I've never been out to South Africa before so it'll be good to go over there and hopefully I'll be able to make the squad for the game on Saturday.

"The game against Italy in the Six Nations was my first start for Scotland so I know a little about them but I'm sure it'll be a different game over in South Africa with different conditions.

"I'm excited about the challenge and I hope I get the chance to show what I can do."

Harley is the fourth Glasgow Warriors forward to be added to the tour party since they arrived in South Africa, joining Jon Welsh, Fraser Brown and Gordon Reid.

Scotland have also released lock Jim Hamilton to return home. Hamilton's wife is expecting their second child and he agreed pre-tour with head coach Scott Johnson on his departure at this juncture.

by Captain_Sensible Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:14 pm

sensisball wrote:Sorry to muck up the plan of playing Gray and Swinson together but they are both 4's not 5's. Neither of them can jump effectively in the middle of the line. Now a starting lock pair of Gray and Ryder with Swinson on the bench would add a huge amount of power, dynamism and mobility to the Scotland boiler room. Ryder may be 4 inches shorter than Gray but as Victor Matfield ( at 6 ft 5 ins) showed you dont have to be a giant to rule the lineout.
At the very least Swinson's performance highlights how unready Grant Gilchrist is for international rugby.

Totally agree with your last sentence. Gilchrist has the right size, but seems too soft for Test matches. Swinson might be smaller, but he brings a far higher work rate and aggression.

As for the Gray/Swinson combo, I thought Swinson jumps in the middle for Glasgow. I'm pretty sure something like that can be trained in. It's not like we're asking either of them to play scrum half.

by **RDW** Mon 17 Jun 2013, 8:37 pm

Started a match thread for the Italy game

https://www.606v2.com/t45404-scotland-v-italy-end-of-season-redemption#2132778

by funnyExiledScot Tue 18 Jun 2013, 9:27 am

I don't buy the "Gray can't jump in the middle of the line" rationale for not going with Swinson and Gray together. We also have Brown and Beattie in the line-up, both useful lineout options, and I'd far rather we worked on a solution to the lineout issue, than be stuck with Kellock purely because of his lineout work.

Seeing Swinson crash into rucks and making big hits was hugely refreshing after the non-performances from Gilchrist and Kellock against Samoa. Gray, Hamilton and Swinson are easily the top three locks in Scotland. Comfortably. If we're serious about beating England and France at Murrayfield next season, we need dynamic forwards. Remember how exposed Hamilton gets when the pace of the game heats up? Swinson is the perfect response.

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