Lions team for first Test against Australia

by Artful_Dodger Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

15. Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
14. Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues/Wales)
13. Brian O'Driscoll (Leinster/Ireland)
12. Jonathan Davies (Scarlets/Wales)
11. George North (Scarlets/Wales)
10. Jonathan Sexton (Leinster/Ireland)
9. Mike Phillips (Bayonne/Wales)
1. Alex Corbisiero (London Irish/England)
2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers/England)
3. Adam Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
4. Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys/Wales)
5. Paul O'Connell (Munster/Ireland)
6. Tom Croft (Leicester Tigers/England)
7. Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues/Wales, capt)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Leinster/Ireland)
Replacements
16. Richard Hibbard (Ospreys/Wales)
17. Makovina Vunipola (Saracens/England)
18. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers/England)
19. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers/England)
20. Dan Lydiate (Dragons/Wales)
21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers/England)
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens/England)
23. Sean Maitland (Glasgow Warriors/Ireland)

by daiglass63 Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:15 am

Dragonbreath,

You do realise that the team is selected by all of the coaches. Does that make all these coaches wrong? I think that they are in a better position to decide what is the best way to defeat the Aussies. The team has been selected, lets just get behind the coaches and the team, they represent us all for goodness sake.

by nathan Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:20 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
nathan wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:I really have trouble understanding how Gatlands mind works

The bench is really strange

I am a big fan of Lydiate, but you either pick him to start or you do not pick him at all. There is no cover for 7 and 8, a car crash waiting to happen

Youngs rather than Murray???. Youngs was beyond terrible on Tuesday and he made Hogg look poor at the same time. His pass was in no particular order, but with alarming frequency, high, low, behind, his intended target. At one point I had to check to make sure he wasn't blindfolded. Murray came on and the link between backs and forwards was improved beyond recognition. Murray must be very disappointed and has a right to be. Anyone criticising Phillips' pass after that performance from Youngs just needs to sit down

Maitland over Kearney and Hogg? really?, that is a disgrace, Maitland is NOT OF TOUR PARTY STANDARD LET ALONE MATCH DAY SQUAD

As for the team itself, the only bone of contention given injuries is T Youngs over Hibbard. I must have missed something because I thought that the idea was that we would attempt to overpower Aus at scrum time. Youngs is a complete lightweight and the main reason Cole has struggled this season in an England shirt is that he has a fat centre in the front row alongside him.

Gats has made some sadly typical Frak decisions yet again. Forget the injuries Gats could yet become the biggest problem this tour faces

what a bunch of Muppet comments...

Really? I agree with the Lydiate comments, disagree with the Murray/Youngs call (Murray is a quite poor man's Phillips, while Youngs(B) was hamstrung by his pack on Tuesday) and agree Maitland's a little lucky to be on the bench (though I'd have selected him in the tour party). I don't have a problem with Youngs(T) starting, there's not much between him & Hibbard overall - you don't need a big scrum against the Aussies,just an adequate one, they're pretty good at getting away with an under-pressure scrum most of the time anyway.

How about addressing the points rather than firing off a whinge salvo.

How about reading the other posts in the thread that have already debunked them? Yet we keep hearing the same from a couple of welsh posters.

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:22 am

Nathan,

Leave it now mate.

Come on you Lions

by B91212 Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:40 am

Moving on...........

I'm another who rates Lydiate highly and could see the reasoning for him being on the bench if the starting backrow was flexible in terms of their playing positions, but it's not and if Heaslip or Warburton are forced off injured early doors then somebody could end up playing out of position for the majority of the game. I understand that both Lydiate and Croft have played 7 occasionally at club level but it's a serious step up to this level. Would Warburton cover 8? I guess he played there at junior level at Gatland obviously likes that concept Wink

Elsewhere in the forwards agree with Corbisiero & Youngs starting and Wyn-Jones has gone up in my estimation in the last couple of weeks so happy with the second row combo. Think Parling is underrated (he is more than just a lineout specialist) so happy to see him make the 23.

I'm a Ben Youngs fan. Was below average behind a poor pack on Tuesday but generally is a decent player, international class (but not world class). However, and Tigers fans can correct my if my memory is failing me but I don't think I've ever really seen him come off the bench and make a decent impact. I almost feel he struggles to get up with the pace of the game unless he starts. Hopefully I'm proved wrong on Saturday and he comes on and has a stormer! Otherwise the backs are as expected, would have selected Maitland at 14 personally (cue abuse) but am happy enough with the selection.

by nathan Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:44 am

LondonTiger wrote:Nathan,ñ

Leave it now mate.

Come on you Lions

Indeed I will, even if I disagree I'm still 100% behind the lions!!

Come on!!!

by flyhalffactory Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:50 am

kingjohn7 wrote:
tatterd wrote:everyone, and I mean EVREYONE (except maybe one person) on here has been bemoaning Lydiate's inclusion on the bench. If he comes on and has a stormer let's hope you're all readily available to admit you were wrong and swallow some humble pie

Im not questioning his ability and would be more than happy if he was to start(would be my starter). As a bench option I just dont see it though. 2 most likely scenarios at 60 min mark, 1: We are losing and have to chase the game- out of the 3 non test flankers he is least effective 2: A backrower is injured/is knackered- he can only come on at blindside but it is Warbs who is most likely to go off.
I imagine he will have a stormer because he usually does, but I dont think that means he is right option.

Sorry I for one would start Lydiate, hence I agree with kingjohn he would be my starter (especially with the weather forecasted to be rain)

by RubyGuby Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:24 pm

Gatland is going out to win it in the first 60 and then who better to come on and shut down the aussies at source than Lydiate, Hibbard and Cole. That's the game plan so let's see what happens. thumbsup

by SecretFly Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:31 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Gatland is going out to win it in the first 60 and then who better to come on and shut down the aussies at source than Lydiate, Hibbard and Cole. That's the game plan so let's see what happens.

Is that wise after his fall and all?

by **RDW** Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:34 pm

I think the level of Maitland bashing on here is way over the top - other than that missed tackle against the reds he hasn't done much else wrong, and lets face it he's not the only key player who had missed a tackle!

Where he can be criticised is for not getting involved enough in games, but to say he is 'clearly not of tour standard' is just plain wrong imo

He was a stand out player against the combined country - yes it was lower level opposition but he was still one of the best players on that day.

Ps I don't think he should be on the bench, but some of the comments on here are fairly over the top

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:39 pm

I have seen very little of Maitland play, so have to trust in his abilities. As a former BabyBlack (from when they were decent too) I have to assume he has the skills. As a player who can cover wing and FB to a good standard his inclusion on the bench has logic. From what I have seen I would have rather seen Hogg have the job, but the tour selections so far indicate that Maitland was always at the forefront of the selectors minds.

When he comes on, I doubt he will let anyone down.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:46 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I have seen very little of Maitland play, so have to trust in his abilities. As a former BabyBlack (from when they were decent too) I have to assume he has the skills. As a player who can cover wing and FB to a good standard his inclusion on the bench has logic. From what I have seen I would have rather seen Hogg have the job, but the tour selections so far indicate that Maitland was always at the forefront of the selectors minds.

When he comes on, I doubt he will let anyone down.

He knows where the line is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgMLB5vzukY. And how to support a break.

by SecretFly Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:15 pm

As with all player tributes, they kind make you think the player should always have been first on the team sheet Wink

A performance optical illusion of sorts....

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:17 pm

SecretFly wrote:As with all player tributes, they kind make you think the player should always have been first on the team sheet

A performance optical illusion of sorts....

I have to see the one for Matt Stevens then. Must be a wonder of editing Very Happy

Edit:

Found it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4Y6VVdk2XY

by nathan Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:07 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
SecretFly wrote:As with all player tributes, they kind make you think the player should always have been first on the team sheet

A performance optical illusion of sorts....

I have to see the one for Matt Stevens then. Must be a wonder of editing

Edit:

Found it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4Y6VVdk2XY

by **George Carlin** Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:25 pm

Ah, nice to see the MaitHaters back, demonstrating with every squirt of vitriol how little they understand about players they don't know about. Carry on. I don't care. Do you really think that a bad point shouted makes it a good point?

Maitland has won the U19 World Cup, the Junior World Championship, been a Maori and broken Super15 try scoring records. Believe it or not, getting yourself into these teams to provide the opportunity to achieve these successes means you have to be in elite amongst your peers in a nation where this sport is a religion.

We should be thrilled that someone with his pedigree is available to us. Familiarity breeds contempt and in the case of a great many comments on these boards, idiocy. But as I mentioned, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just be aware that hammering the same blinkered view isn't changing anyone's mind.

There's a word for consistent, exaggerated and unbalanced criticism. It's a polemic.

by Scrumdown Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:53 pm

George Carlin wrote:Ah, nice to see the MaitHaters back, demonstrating with every squirt of vitriol how little they understand about players they don't know about. Carry on. I don't care. Do you really think that a bad point shouted makes it a good point?

Maitland has won the U19 World Cup, the Junior World Championship, been a Maori and broken Super15 try scoring records. Believe it or not, getting yourself into these teams to provide the opportunity to achieve these successes means you have to be in elite amongst your peers in a nation where this sport is a religion.

We should be thrilled that someone with his pedigree is available to us. Familiarity breeds contempt and in the case of a great many comments on these boards, idiocy. But as I mentioned, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just be aware that hammering the same blinkered view isn't changing anyone's mind.

There's a word for consistent, exaggerated and unbalanced criticism. It's a polemic.

But Simon Zebo should have been selected ahead of him in the Lions squad and also the 1st test. Don't see how you can argue with that.

by Guest Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:29 pm

George Carlin wrote:Ah, nice to see the MaitHaters back, demonstrating with every squirt of vitriol how little they understand about players they don't know about. Carry on. I don't care. Do you really think that a bad point shouted makes it a good point?

Maitland has won the U19 World Cup, the Junior World Championship, been a Maori and broken Super15 try scoring records. Believe it or not, getting yourself into these teams to provide the opportunity to achieve these successes means you have to be in elite amongst your peers in a nation where this sport is a religion.

We should be thrilled that someone with his pedigree is available to us. Familiarity breeds contempt and in the case of a great many comments on these boards, idiocy. But as I mentioned, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just be aware that hammering the same blinkered view isn't changing anyone's mind.

There's a word for consistent, exaggerated and unbalanced criticism. It's a polemic.

Good word. Whatever people's opinion of him (and I have stated on here I rate him), Warren Gatland/Rob Howley do rate him and that's enough for me. I'm sure he will do well when he comes on.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:34 pm

I don't think hes done himself justice on this tour (similar to Evans) but the guy obviously has what it takes because despite what people think you don't get to the top in any sport unless you can cut the mustard as they say.

Peoples opinions however will be their opinion and that will never change, afetr all these boards would be pretty boring if we all agreed all the time lol

by **George Carlin** Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:34 pm

Scrumdown wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Ah, nice to see the MaitHaters back, demonstrating with every squirt of vitriol how little they understand about players they don't know about. Carry on. I don't care. Do you really think that a bad point shouted makes it a good point?

Maitland has won the U19 World Cup, the Junior World Championship, been a Maori and broken Super15 try scoring records. Believe it or not, getting yourself into these teams to provide the opportunity to achieve these successes means you have to be in elite amongst your peers in a nation where this sport is a religion.

We should be thrilled that someone with his pedigree is available to us. Familiarity breeds contempt and in the case of a great many comments on these boards, idiocy. But as I mentioned, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just be aware that hammering the same blinkered view isn't changing anyone's mind.

There's a word for consistent, exaggerated and unbalanced criticism. It's a polemic.

But Simon Zebo should have been selected ahead of him in the Lions squad and also the 1st test. Don't see how you can argue with that.

Well, tell me what your rationale is for that SD, and I'll tell you whether I think I agree. There's a lot of received wisdom often bandied around about players and often not a great deal of explanation as to whether a lot of assumptions are justified.

For example, what form are we basing this on? This past season? Let's have a look at that. I am a big Zebo fan - I think he's the most elusive Irish winger since Simon Geoghegan - and his scoring record for Munster is stellar. I can't recall exact numbers but he's been very consistent for a couple of seasons now - league and HC. Conversely, Glasgow scored more tries than any other Rabo team this year (66) and in the process smashed a 9 year Dragons record for consecutive try bonus point wins. I watch Glasgow every week and can tell you that Maitland played a massive part in that success. Daniel Van Der Merwe scored 10 tries this season (only Visser scored more) and he's given quite a few interviews saying that Maitland supplied the passes for about a third of these and dozens of this line breaks. Clear cut?

What about form on the tour? I only recall Simon being in one match that I saw - the Tahs game and because I only saw the second half, I hardly really saw him although all reports said that in the first half he played well. How does this compare to Maitland's Combined Countries game when he topped most of the attacking and passing stats? It's hard to tell. Clear cut? On what basis?

by Scrumdown Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:02 pm

George Carlin wrote:
Scrumdown wrote:
But Simon Zebo should have been selected ahead of him in the Lions squad and also the 1st test. Don't see how you can argue with that.

Well, tell me what your rationale is for that SD, and I'll tell you whether I think I agree. There's a lot of received wisdom often bandied around about players and often not a great deal of explanation as to whether a lot of assumptions are justified.

For example, what form are we basing this on? This past season? Let's have a look at that. I am a big Zebo fan - I think he's the most elusive Irish winger since Simon Geoghegan - and his scoring record for Munster is stellar. I can't recall exact numbers but he's been very consistent for a couple of seasons now - league and HC. Conversely, Glasgow scored more tries than any other Rabo team this year (66) and in the process smashed a 9 year Dragons record for consecutive try bonus point wins. I watch Glasgow every week and can tell you that Maitland played a massive part in that success. Daniel Van Der Merwe scored 10 tries this season (only Visser scored more) and he's given quite a few interviews saying that Maitland supplied the passes for about a third of these and dozens of this line breaks. Clear cut?

What about form on the tour? I only recall Simon being in one match that I saw - the Tahs game and because I only saw the second half, I hardly really saw him although all reports said that in the first half he played well. How does this compare to Maitland's Combined Countries game when he topped most of the attacking and passing stats? It's hard to tell. Clear cut? On what basis?

Stats are less relevant for backs than forwards where decision making under pressure is the key performance criteria and this is not so easily measured. It is the quality of the pass not the number of passes that matters.

Maitland has dropped a few balls under pressure and has looked at times like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

Zebo just looks comfortable at international level and also has that flash of brilliance to his game that
Maitland lacks.

by littlejohn Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:37 pm

I'm looking more and more forward to this game - think about all the great battles come Saturday:

Folau v North -> Spectacular
Sexton v JOC -> fascinating
Phillips v Genia -> Key
Warburton v Hooper -> can't wait
BOD v AAC -> what a battle
Healslip v Palu -> thundering
front row v front row -> yawn Smile

POC v Horwill -> earth shattering!

So many individual contests inside a massive game for all - bring it on!

by dragonbreath Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:54 pm

George Carlin wrote:Ah, nice to see the MaitHaters back, demonstrating with every squirt of vitriol how little they understand about players they don't know about. Carry on. I don't care. Do you really think that a bad point shouted makes it a good point?

Maitland has won the U19 World Cup, the Junior World Championship, been a Maori and broken Super15 try scoring records. Believe it or not, getting yourself into these teams to provide the opportunity to achieve these successes means you have to be in elite amongst your peers in a nation where this sport is a religion.

We should be thrilled that someone with his pedigree is available to us. Familiarity breeds contempt and in the case of a great many comments on these boards, idiocy. But as I mentioned, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just be aware that hammering the same blinkered view isn't changing anyone's mind.

There's a word for consistent, exaggerated and unbalanced criticism. It's a polemic.

And to continue this is the same guy who scored only 4 times in the weak Rabo in a very attacking and successful Glasgow side. I watch a lot of Rabo and my opinion of Maitland is based on him now not as he was in days gone by, and I have seen nothing in him that leads me to believe he is good enough to pull on a Lions shirt.

That is my opinion you are entitled to your own.

by 509boy Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:51 pm

Hello gents,
Just wanted to give an on the ground heads up from Melbourne area, we feel the team is drastically different from where we thought it would be, but in general are happy. Youngs has played superbly at times, and well loosely was always going to be a late change.
Surprised by Lydiate off the bench, but when you consider the attacking firepower in Hibbard, cole, vunipola, parling I suppose a breakdown option would be the smart move.
Also feel sorry for Hogg, but if we need a 10 in the midweeks someone has to play there.
All in all good team with what's available, Australian fans seem happy to not see O Brien in the team, and the truth is no one seems to know how the first game will go. Some say home win big, others away win big, most call the game 50/50.

by Icu Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:14 pm

509boy wrote: Australian fans seem happy to not see O Brien in the team,

That's an understatement. Relieved and grateful that he's not in the side. Actually most cannot believe he didn't make the side. It was even being discussed on morning radio (it even took precedence over next week's State of Origin) how the Lions coach has missed a trick by not playing him. The guy has caused the Wallabies problems in the past. Definitely an advantage to us that he won't be playing.

by **George Carlin** Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:38 pm

Scrumdown wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Scrumdown wrote:
But Simon Zebo should have been selected ahead of him in the Lions squad and also the 1st test. Don't see how you can argue with that.

Well, tell me what your rationale is for that SD, and I'll tell you whether I think I agree. There's a lot of received wisdom often bandied around about players and often not a great deal of explanation as to whether a lot of assumptions are justified.

For example, what form are we basing this on? This past season? Let's have a look at that. I am a big Zebo fan - I think he's the most elusive Irish winger since Simon Geoghegan - and his scoring record for Munster is stellar. I can't recall exact numbers but he's been very consistent for a couple of seasons now - league and HC. Conversely, Glasgow scored more tries than any other Rabo team this year (66) and in the process smashed a 9 year Dragons record for consecutive try bonus point wins. I watch Glasgow every week and can tell you that Maitland played a massive part in that success. Daniel Van Der Merwe scored 10 tries this season (only Visser scored more) and he's given quite a few interviews saying that Maitland supplied the passes for about a third of these and dozens of this line breaks. Clear cut?

What about form on the tour? I only recall Simon being in one match that I saw - the Tahs game and because I only saw the second half, I hardly really saw him although all reports said that in the first half he played well. How does this compare to Maitland's Combined Countries game when he topped most of the attacking and passing stats? It's hard to tell. Clear cut? On what basis?

Stats are less relevant for backs than forwards where decision making under pressure is the key performance criteria and this is not so easily measured. It is the quality of the pass not the number of passes that matters.

Maitland has dropped a few balls under pressure and has looked at times like a rabbit caught in the headlights.

Zebo just looks comfortable at international level and also has that flash of brilliance to his game that
Maitland lacks.

"Just looks comfortable at international level"? So we're just dealing in generalisations which aren't supported by anything in particular? Okay. I'm off to start a thread about why I don't think Brian O'Driscoll is any good because it's just the impression I get and because the dozens of highlight reels for him are surely just misleading. I just hope that nobody asks me where the content of these highlight reels comes from, though, because then I'll be a bit stuck.

You'll also have to explain why statistics are more "relevant" to forwards then backs because forwards apparently don't play under any pressure. I really don't understand that.

by blackcanelion Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:46 am

I'm guessing Maitland is there because he can cover wing and fullback. he also has a kicking game. It gives good injury coverage and allows for tactical variation.

by **rodders** Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:08 am

Maitland is a logical bench pick, it was him or Hogg really. No one else has really stood out.

This injuries to Bowe, Tuilagi and Kearney haven't left much options in terms of outside backs.

Still not convinced about the backrow, its very mobile but lacks physicality.

I'd have gone for O'Brien/Lydiate - Heaslip - Warbs or Croft- Faletau- Warbs/O'Brien. At the very least O'Brien should be on the bench to give us an extra ball carrier in the absence of Roberts.

Everything else picks itself really, its been a disappointing tour in that respect...very little genuine competition for places outside the backrow and lock. Vainapolo apart theres been no new stars emerge...

by RuggerRadge2611 Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:11 am

Maitland is lucky, AWJ and Geoff Parling are lucky and so is Cuthbert.

AWJ seems to have taken Gray's test short with one good performance whilst Gray played against the Brumbies with a hooker who's lineout accuracy was so bad that he probably couldn't hit water if fell out of a boat. Gray not in the 23 is a bit of a shocker.

Maitland shoudn't be there either. Zebo has looked a lot better and Sadly Hogg was shafted by Gatland and put into a position he wasn't familiar with instead of getting the chance to assert himself at 11, 14 or 15.

Cuthbert ^ see above Zebo and Hogg looked better.

Vinapola is also really unlucky too, for me he has been the best player on tour.

My biggest concern is it is still so bish bash bosh. Gatland has learned nothing from his encounters with Australia in the past.

I hope the Lions win but my guess is Australia by 7. We can win the series but it'll start with Victory in the 2nd test when Gatland realises that we'll need more than 16st wingers to win these games.

by funnyExiledScot Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:38 am

Radge - to be fair AWJ has played very well on this tour so I'm not surprised he's come in ahead of Gray. I thought Gray might have had a short at the bench slot for impact, but Parling is so far ahead as a lineout specialist, and technically very good at the breakdown. It's tough on Gray, but he hasn't quite clicked on tour, possibly due to a lack of quality rugby this season. He looks fit, but hasn't quite been match sharp.

I also don't think this side is as "bish bash bosh" as it might have been, largely due to Roberts' injury, but also due to Youngs and Corbs being picked ahead of Hibbard and Vunipola. He's also picked Croft at 6 and Heaslip at 8, ahead of Lydiate and Falatau respectively. In each of these cases he's got more mobile and technical players instead of pure physicality. In fact a midfield of Sexton, Davies and BOD isn't really physical at all.

I'm quietly confident the Lions will win tomorrow. I'm a little worried about the wide channels in defence. The Lions have been exposed several times on tour and the Aussies certainly have the skills to exploit those areas, but I just think the power and experience in that Lions pack will have enough, and Halfpenny will miss nothing.

by Cadair Idris Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:45 am

RuggerRadge, I agree with some of your points but don't think AWJ has been lucky, I do think him and POC are the obvious first choice pairing , though I'd have been happy with Gray too. Parling's only beaten Gray to the bench in case the line out needs shoring up.

I agree that Hogg has been shafted and as you say he should have been given opportunities on the wing as well as full back. Bad mistake not bringing another 10 as it's had too many knock on effects with Hogg being wasted out of position and too many replacements needing to be called up. That's why Hook would have been an ideal utility player for midweek purposes.

Understand people's reservations about Cuthbert but he's a proven match winner in big games - grand slam winning try against France in 2012 (real individual effort) as well as those two great finishes to win the 2013 championship vs England. It's hardly surprising that Gatland has gone for him with his track record.

Final point about your criticism of Gatland's bish bosh. It's not everyone's idea of how rugby should be played but it's been effective. I don't think it's quite right to say that the game plan hasn't worked against Australia, there've just been errors of execution and moments of madness which have cost Wales victories. The last three games between Wales and Aus were lost by either 1 or 2 points with Wales conceding a lead in literally the dying minutes or seconds of the game due to poor execution/strategy in closing the game out. Put another way, if Jonathan Sexton had been playing at 10 in those games I reckon we would have put the Aussies away with our bish bosh!

by **George Carlin** Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:46 am

I also think we'll win it if we don't kick the thing away. Michael Lynagh has given a couple of interviews saying that the reason that the Wallabies won the tri-nations a year ago is because they don't try to carry a ball through a strong midfield very often, they carry it round or chip over and chase through with their fast backline.

by **George Carlin** Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:47 am

I also think we'll win it if we don't kick the thing away. Michael Lynagh has given a couple of interviews saying that the reason that the Wallabies won the tri-nations a year ago is because they don't try to carry a ball through a strong midfield very often, they carry it round or chip over and chase through with their fast backline.

by gregortree Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:46 am

yes, ..you said that George

by maestegmafia Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:53 am

Lynagh has a very valid point there George. As I mentioned before I hope the Lions have got their defense sorted because I had little confidence in what I had seen so far.

by RubyGuby Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:54 am

George's comments about Lynagh are bang on - You can't run through a tight defence - Our backs will not be able to turn quick from the chips etc so we have to anticipate a bit here - 1/2 p may have to come up closer to the backs and/or we have a staggered defence where need be. Phillips also needs to drop back if Aus are running the ball - They are fleet footed and it will be an intriguing battle thumbsup

By the way - Thank you Mr Lynagh

by funnyExiledScot Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:01 am

Whilst North and Cuthbert may not be the quickest on the turn, I have full confidence in Davies and BOD to react well to Aussie tactics, and Warburton and Croft both have that rangy pace to provide quick cover. Phillips is also defensively strong covering back.

I'm most worried about the Aussie distribution skills. If they can perfect that flat wide passing style that we saw a couple of times last Saturday, then they can open up the Lions. Cuthbert and North need to be alive to that threat and be prepared to come in quickly and decisively to cut out the threat. Hesitation in defence will be ruthlessly punished.

Still, the Aussies will have plenty to worry about as well. Phillips is a real threat around the fringes and the interplay between Davies and BOD could be quite dangerous, plus there's the ability of Sexton to bring ball carriers like Heaslip, North and Croft onto the ball at pace. It's easy to look at the opposition team and spot danger players, but the Lions are bringing a fair bit of nasty to the party as well.

by **George Carlin** Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:44 am

gregortree wrote:yes, ..you said that George

Still haven't got the hang of doing this on a Blackberry.

by gregortree Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:20 am

George, of course I'm just yanking your leg. Hug

I'd like to see us go ball in hand... we see too much kicking generally in 'modern' UKI union.
Pick'ngo, offloading, bullocking, and a deft angle or two should be the way. The Lions have the brawn to be able to keep the ball and prosper, ball in hand. Kicking to the Aussie back 3 is not a good idea, they will be dangerous in broken counter attack play.
BTW, Gatland hinting he will 'test' newbie Folau...might this be a double bluff hint at the high ball ? when in fact he plans to run it hard with the big Welsh boys ? Maybe a mind game comment to keep the Aussies guessing in their defensive positioning.

by ChequeredJersey Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:22 am

gregortree wrote:George, of course I'm just yanking your leg.
I'd like to see us go ball in hand... we see too much kicking generally in 'modern' UKI union.
Pick'ngo, offloading, bullocking, and a deft angle or two should be the way. The Lions have the brawn to be able to keep the ball and prosper, ball in hand. Kicking to the Aussie back 3 is not a good idea, they will be dangerous in broken counter attack play.
BTW, Gatland hinting he will 'test' newbie Folau...might this be a double bluff hint at the high ball ? when in fact he plans to run it hard with the big Welsh boys ? Maybe a mind game comment to keep the Aussies guessing in their defensive positioning.

Testing Folau with the highball sounds like utter madness, testing him with a giant Welshman running straight at his inside shoulder is so sensible I don't see why he'd need to talk about it!

But why the hell would you test Folau under the highball?

by thespreys Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:55 am

Iwould be more worried about WARBURTON ,he is the most over rated player i have ever seen.He is gutless and like a rabbit in the headlights and only made the trip because of Gatland and the WRU.Should never have been on the tour.

by gregortree Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:55 am

CJ, yes fair point, and I may have over-read Gatland's Beeb quote about testing Folau.
Up this thread was George hoping we do not kick the thing away. I hope so too.
Aussies for their part seem to like a spot of chip and chase according to Mr Lynagh, which will have our big wingers either turning, or needing to lie deep when defending. The Lions attack needs to be ball in hand.

by ChequeredJersey Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:56 am

Question his ability and his place in the side/as captain/tour if you like, but saying he's gutless lacks any class at all

by gregortree Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:57 am

thesprays, you sound like an Aussie WUM mate

by funnyExiledScot Fri Jun 21, 2013 10:58 am

I was always taught that if you have nothing good to say about something, say nothing at all.

On that basis, I'll say nothing about that post "thespreys".

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:00 am

thespreys wrote:Iwould be more worried about WARBURTON ,he is the most over rated player i have ever seen.He is gutless and like a rabbit in the headlights and only made the trip because of Gatland and the WRU.Should never have been on the tour.

..Justin? Is that you? Whistle

by ChequeredJersey Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:01 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
thespreys wrote:Iwould be more worried about WARBURTON ,he is the most over rated player i have ever seen.He is gutless and like a rabbit in the headlights and only made the trip because of Gatland and the WRU.Should never have been on the tour.

..Justin? Is that you?

by ChequeredJersey Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:02 am

Nah, Tips has more class than that

by Rory_Gallagher Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:13 am

He does indeed, he will respond with a big performance to prove Gatland wrong.

As for Warburton, in the RWC 2011 I thought he was one of the best 7s in the world, he was outstanding. He may not be delivering the same performances nowadays (injuries have taken their toll for a start) but the man still has the talent and ability. I would love to see more of the Warburton at 6 and Tipuric at 7 combination.

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