Wimbledon - Day 1 OOP

First topic message reminder :

Centre Court Matches (1pm start): 
Victor Hanescu v Roger Federer [3] 
Kristina Mladenovic v Maria Sharapova [3] 
Benjamin Becker v Andy Murray [2] 

Court 1 Matches (1pm start): 
Maria Joao Koehler v Victoria Azarenka [2] 
Rafael Nadal [5] v Steve Darcis 
Lleyton Hewitt v Stanislas Wawrinka [11] 


Full schedule:
http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/schedule/index.html

Match of the day: Hewitt v Wawrinka
Both players come in with grass court form; Hewitt after reaching the semi final at Queens, Wawrinka after reaching the final in 's-Hertogenbosch.
Hewitt's run at Queens included some wins against quality players. The fact that Hewitt has had a week in Wimbledon already while Wawrinka will only just arrive may work in Hewitt's favour, however Wawrinka has played well at both slams this year, and I don't expect Hewitt to stop him here.
Prediction: Wawrinka in 4.       

Other matches of note:
Baghdatis v Cillic, Verdasco v Malisse
James Ward plays Yen-Hsun Lu for a chance to play (probably) Murray in R2. Would like to see the local guy win that and get a chance to play on Centre in his career.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Andy through in straight sets 6-4 6-3 6-2. Business-like performance.

Yeah very, very professional. Minimum fuss required, quick recharge, then onto the second round.

Wardy 10-10 Lu in the 3rd set TB.....

laverfan wrote:

falzy21 wrote:Be nice if Darcis got some real both pointage and monies for his efforts, be a shame if he went out 2nd round after this. Anyone know the opponent?

Kubot (ATP #130) v Darcis (ATP #135). More than likely, he will win it.

If he plays like he did today he will

Good from Rafa, refused to blame the knee - although didn't deny it might be the problem

Lu takes it 13-11.

Falzy and gang  Im off to lick my wounds enjoy the rest of your Wimbers
Cogratulations Darcis a great game
BUT ONE CORRECTION PLEASE... its not knees its KNEE the left one to be precise. With that I´ll bid you all adieu.:

All a bit quiet now..... Hewitt's serving for the first set against Wawrinka again. Stan will really fancy a run here now.

banbrotam wrote:Good from Rafa, refused to blame the knee - although didn't deny it might be the problem

Yes, although by saying 'today is not the day to talk about this' we know all is not great. Lets just hope that 5 or 6 weeks off will be enough recovery time, if it is indeed the knee that is giving him trouble.

The last thing I want personally is Rafa out of tennis for months and months.

I really want Hewitt to win the first set, i reckon a cracker is on the cards if he does

Haddie-nuff wrote:Falzy and gang  Im off to lick my wounds enjoy the rest of your Wimbers
Cogratulations Darcis a great game
BUT ONE CORRECTION PLEASE... its not knees its KNEE the left one to be precise. With that I´ll bid you all adieu.:

Commiserations Haddie. Hopefully, Rafa will be back soon.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Falzy and gang  Im off to lick my wounds enjoy the rest of your Wimbers
Cogratulations Darcis a great game
BUT ONE CORRECTION PLEASE... its not knees its KNEE the left one to be precise. With that I´ll bid you all adieu.:

Commiserations Haddie. Hopefully, Rafa will be back soon.

Thanks Craig I wish Andy the best of luck.. its an ill wind that doesn´t blow somebody good luck.. lets hope he is the benificiary

Well Haddie we shall see. Andy was business-like today but will need to go up a few levels in order to beat the likes of Tsonga and Roger. Here's hoping eh?

Commiserations again.

You've taken what's happened well haddie, commiserations from myself too.  If it was me, I wouldn't have any device capable of connecting to the internet left in one piece

Danny_1982 wrote:

banbrotam wrote:Good from Rafa, refused to blame the knee - although didn't deny it might be the problem

Yes, although by saying 'today is not the day to talk about this' we know all is not great. Lets just hope that 5 or 6 weeks off will be enough recovery time, if it is indeed the knee that is giving him trouble.

The last thing I want personally is Rafa out of tennis for months and months.

Not certain I can see that knee coping with 2 masters and a US Open in the space of 4 weeks. He might just play in the US Open. I honestly think that like all greats he knows his limitations and would happily settle for three more French titles

Darcis had a single handed backhand and looking at the way he was hitting his shots with the massive follow throughs, it didn't look as if he should have the consistency to win. That retrieval he made in the last game was immense.

I haven't seen today's match (other than the last game where Darcis closed it out wonderfully) but the suggestions are that Rafa was struggling with his knee? I'm not saying this to wind anyone up but is there a logical explanation why his knee is fit enough to withstand the clay season including the rigours of RG but falls apart immediately afterwards? Grass should, theoretically, be relatively easy on the joints and I'm just curious why it seems to have happened.

Commiserations to all Rafa fans. A tough result to take especially when an injury has contributed.

Please tell me that Stan the Man isn't in Andy's quarter

Let him play his countryman, where he knows his place

Great game though - Stan is great to watch. Surely he should win at least a Masters in his career

Well I mean its a bummer but its hardly the end is it?
Haddies got plently on her plate outside of tennis as have I. Its only the select few who appear to live and die on the success of their tennis player.
For Rafa its not that bad... When he first came back its sort of what he expected. We heightened that expectation when he won RG, but its easy to assume it appears that he was just suddenly back to peak. All in all its still been a great start from a 7 month lay off, won his best won, dissapointing in another.

One of the sad things in tennis is that Nadal might be forced to play these mandatory Masters tournaments on the hard courts, even though it could cause dreadful damage to his knees. I wonder how the ATP will approach this. On one hand, their will be outrage if he's forced to play them, on the other hand rules is rules and all that.

banbrotam wrote:Please tell me that Stan the Man isn't in Andy's quarter

Let him play his countryman, where he knows his place

Great game though - Stan is great to watch. Surely he should win at least a Masters in his career

He isn't, he's in the Fedal quarter, thankfully (although after seeing the way Murray dealt with him at the Olympics last year, I wouldn't worry too much).

Born Slippy wrote:I haven't seen today's match (other than the last game where Darcis closed it out wonderfully) but the suggestions are that Rafa was struggling with his knee? I'm not saying this to wind anyone up but is there a logical explanation why his knee is fit enough to withstand the clay season including the rigours of RG but falls apart immediately afterwards? Grass should, theoretically, be relatively easy on the joints and I'm just curious why it seems to have happened.

Commiserations to all Rafa fans. A tough result to take especially when an injury has contributed.

I think we had a clue, when he pulled out of Halle. I personally think Rafa deliberately put all his eggs in the clay basket, knowing that the knee is probably only good for 15 to 20 weeks a year now

Rafa isn't going to hide though and so reasonably gave it a go

Slipply, put simply he has a chronic knee injury. You think how hard he pushed it week in and week out, it can flare up in the space of a week or even less. My mum sadly has crohns diseas which is inflammation flare up of the small intestine... she can be fine one hour and in agony the next. Knees arent quite that bad but it isnt uncommon for them to happen quickly

Rafa should take as long off as his needs. In other news, Ward lost the 3rd set tiebreaker 13-11 and went down 2-1 against Lu.

So now we need a Rosol/Darcy for Djoko, he deserves a humiliation now as well.

Born Slippy wrote:I haven't seen today's match (other than the last game where Darcis closed it out wonderfully) but the suggestions are that Rafa was struggling with his knee? I'm not saying this to wind anyone up but is there a logical explanation why his knee is fit enough to withstand the clay season including the rigours of RG but falls apart immediately afterwards? Grass should, theoretically, be relatively easy on the joints and I'm just curious why it seems to have happened.

Commiserations to all Rafa fans. A tough result to take especially when an injury has contributed.

From marathon training with a knee injury, it was worst after a long long run that wore it down, but when I kept doing decent length runs on it with little rest time it was OK, but it stiffened up after rest days because everything caught up with it. I struggled to hit my stride again after taking a week out because it wasn't long enough for it to recover but was long enough that I wasn't used to starting through the pain again. You get used to pain and blocking it out if it is a regular occurrence ,so in this case Rafa MAY have made a mistake by resting it but for a too short period of time so he lost his pain tolerance and struggled to get used to it again without actually letting it rest enough to mend. It's mostly mental, plus the effects of endorphins etc

The Special Juan wrote:[He isn't, he's in the Fedal quarter, thankfully (although after seeing the way Murray dealt with him at the Olympics last year, I wouldn't worry too much).

But that was an out of sorts Stan. I honestly think that outside his three rivals, Stan causes him the most genuine problems (as opposed to self imploding ones, in a couple of his Berdych matches)

It's that backhand - it gives Andy all kind of problems

Thanks for the good news!!!!

banbrotam wrote:

Born Slippy wrote:I haven't seen today's match (other than the last game where Darcis closed it out wonderfully) but the suggestions are that Rafa was struggling with his knee? I'm not saying this to wind anyone up but is there a logical explanation why his knee is fit enough to withstand the clay season including the rigours of RG but falls apart immediately afterwards? Grass should, theoretically, be relatively easy on the joints and I'm just curious why it seems to have happened.

Commiserations to all Rafa fans. A tough result to take especially when an injury has contributed.

I think we had a clue, when he pulled out of Halle. I personally think Rafa deliberately put all his eggs in the clay basket, knowing that the knee is probably only good for 15 to 20 weeks a year now

Rafa isn't going to hide though and so reasonably gave it a go

So he didn't hide after his loss to Rosol then ..

emancipator wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Like I don't want to hear about Roger's back everytime he loses...

Oh please LK,

Hardly anyone talks about Roger's back when he loses except if it's blindingly obvious that he's got a problem.

The difference with Nadal is that EVERYTIME he loses the knees are cited.

Rarely people blamed Roger's losses to Benny and Nishi was due to his back, Roger fans do know he is too old and any wins from here on is a bonus and loss is not an issue.

Nadal came up with a stunning quote saying, "Rosol might have won even if he was fit" thats an indirect dig saying he didn't beat me when I was actually fit and I wasn't fit that day, its hard to believe people play for 5 sets and complain they are not fit.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Born Slippy wrote:I haven't seen today's match (other than the last game where Darcis closed it out wonderfully) but the suggestions are that Rafa was struggling with his knee? I'm not saying this to wind anyone up but is there a logical explanation why his knee is fit enough to withstand the clay season including the rigours of RG but falls apart immediately afterwards? Grass should, theoretically, be relatively easy on the joints and I'm just curious why it seems to have happened.

Commiserations to all Rafa fans. A tough result to take especially when an injury has contributed.

From marathon training with a knee injury, it was worst after a long long run that wore it down, but when I kept doing decent length runs on it with little rest time it was OK, but it stiffened up after rest days because everything caught up with it. I struggled to hit my stride again after taking a week out because it wasn't long enough for it to recover but was long enough that I wasn't used to starting through the pain again. You get used to pain and blocking it out if it is a regular occurrence ,so in this case Rafa MAY have made a mistake by resting it but for a too short period of time so he lost his pain tolerance and struggled to get used to it again without actually letting it rest enough to mend. It's mostly mental, plus the effects of endorphins etc

Good post CJ. It aludes to what I was thinking - would the knee stiffen up as soon as it had a sustained rest

Born Slippy wrote:I haven't seen today's match (other than the last game where Darcis closed it out wonderfully) but the suggestions are that Rafa was struggling with his knee? I'm not saying this to wind anyone up but is there a logical explanation why his knee is fit enough to withstand the clay season including the rigours of RG but falls apart immediately afterwards? Grass should, theoretically, be relatively easy on the joints and I'm just curious why it seems to have happened.

Commiserations to all Rafa fans. A tough result to take especially when an injury has contributed.

Grass court tennis is played at a far faster pace than on clay. You need quicker turns, changes of direction and I'd guess those movements put more stress on the knee. I suggest you watch the match and make up your own mind. Even for an untrained eye like mines I could see his movement was sluggish, he was late getting to balls and he was missing easy drop volleys at the net when bending. His service action also lacked spring. Now I've watched Rafa for years and the big trademark of his game is his returning and retrieval skills aided by great pace and movement and I saw none of that today. It was akin to having a Ferrari you are used to doing top speeds of 180mph in and finding you can't even reach 60 mph.

Rosol was last years news. Nadals completely avoided blaming anything on his knee today. He even asked if they were joking when he was asked the 4th time. He understands his responsibility and took it well.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Born Slippy wrote:I haven't seen today's match (other than the last game where Darcis closed it out wonderfully) but the suggestions are that Rafa was struggling with his knee? I'm not saying this to wind anyone up but is there a logical explanation why his knee is fit enough to withstand the clay season including the rigours of RG but falls apart immediately afterwards? Grass should, theoretically, be relatively easy on the joints and I'm just curious why it seems to have happened.

Commiserations to all Rafa fans. A tough result to take especially when an injury has contributed.

Grass court tennis is played at a far faster pace than on clay. You need quicker turns, changes of direction and I'd guess those movements put more stress on the knee. I suggest you watch the match and make up your own mind. Even for an untrained eye like mines I could see his movement was sluggish, he was late getting to balls and he was missing easy drop volleys at the net when bending. His service action also lacked spring. Now I've watched Rafa for years and the big trademark of his game is his returning and retrieval skills aided by great pace and movement and I saw none of that today. It was akin to having a Ferrari you are used to doing top speeds of 180mph in and finding you can't even reach 60 mph.

CCis correct. It was Rafa's most noticeable struggle since that Rotterdam defeat to Andy in 2009 - where even us Murray fans put an asterix to that victory!! He did comeback after that, but significantly then had his first spell out

falzy21 wrote:Rosol was last years news. Nadals completely avoided blaming anything on his knee today. He even asked if they were joking when he was asked the 4th time. He understands his responsibility and took it well.

I can imagine. Sometimes these journos interrogate more fiercely than the secret service!!

invisiblecoolers wrote:

emancipator wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Like I don't want to hear about Roger's back everytime he loses...

Oh please LK,

Hardly anyone talks about Roger's back when he loses except if it's blindingly obvious that he's got a problem.

The difference with Nadal is that EVERYTIME he loses the knees are cited.

Rarely people blamed Roger's losses to Benny and Nishi was due to his back, Roger fans do know he is too old and any wins from here on is a bonus and loss is not an issue.

Nadal came up with a stunning quote saying, "Rosol might have won even if he was fit" thats an indirect dig saying he didn't beat me when I was actually fit and I wasn't fit that day, its hard to believe people play for 5 sets and complain they are not fit.

Harsh. No it's not. I ran a marathon when I wasn't fit. I've also rowed in races when I've been ill and played rugby matches with leg injuries and have struggled with my knees ever since said marathon. Still won a rowing regatta since then. Some people love competing and their sport enough that they will compete to the bitter end even if they are in quite a lot of pain

Anyway I think Muzz has avoided Wawrinka.

Johnyjeep wrote:Unbelievable. What a last game again vs Nadal to close out.

Just unbelievable. You have to feel for Nadal. 

Not (one of) his supporters though.

Yea I do feel sorry for Nadal but Darcis deserved the win for the way he kept himself composed on both tie breaks, had one of them gone out of his hand he would have sensed this upset, now to say Nadal was not fit and stuff just spoils the great moment for Darcis.

Wardy's saved 3 break points.

I play tennis, badly, very badly, and luckily I haven't been injured. Read some of the possible explanations to Nadal's exit today. I am still finding it hard to take those explanations on board. Ok , there is a difference between clay and grass but didn't the guy win Indiana Wells earlier this year? That's a hard court isn't it?

invisiblecoolers wrote:

Johnyjeep wrote:Unbelievable. What a last game again vs Nadal to close out.

Just unbelievable. You have to feel for Nadal. 

Not (one of) his supporters though.

Yea I do feel sorry for Nadal but Darcis deserved the win for the way he kept himself composed on both tie breaks, had one of them gone out of his hand he would have sensed this upset, now to say Nadal was not fit and stuff just spoils the great moment for Darcis.

But he wasn't fit. Just like he wasn't against Andy at Rotterdam 2009. It's fine to discuss - Darcis still one

Verdasco and Cilic have beaten Murray once - both times it was discovered (albeit afterwards) that Murray had a significant problem. However, it doesn't change the record books

coolpixel wrote:I play tennis, badly, very badly, and luckily I haven't been injured. Read some of the possible explanations to Nadal's exit today. I am still finding it hard to take those explanations on board. Ok , there is a difference between clay and grass but didn't the guy win Indiana Wells earlier this year? That's a hard court isn't it?

On his comeback in the early days. I think he played too much at once - but he knew this and would be quite happy just playing on the clay for the rest of his career

A great escape for Wardy from 0-40 down.

Well pixel... its an injury, they dont always play out to logic

I am going having a bottle a wine and then gonna sit down and watch Nadal get hammered.  It's gonna be great.

Michael Owen.

ChequeredJersey wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

emancipator wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Like I don't want to hear about Roger's back everytime he loses...

Oh please LK,

Hardly anyone talks about Roger's back when he loses except if it's blindingly obvious that he's got a problem.

The difference with Nadal is that EVERYTIME he loses the knees are cited.

Rarely people blamed Roger's losses to Benny and Nishi was due to his back, Roger fans do know he is too old and any wins from here on is a bonus and loss is not an issue.

Nadal came up with a stunning quote saying, "Rosol might have won even if he was fit" thats an indirect dig saying he didn't beat me when I was actually fit and I wasn't fit that day, its hard to believe people play for 5 sets and complain they are not fit.

Harsh. No it's not. I ran a marathon when I wasn't fit. I've also rowed in races when I've been ill and played rugby matches with leg injuries and have struggled with my knees ever since said marathon. Still won a rowing regatta since then. Some people love competing and their sport enough that they will compete to the bitter end even if they are in quite a lot of pain

I expect most tennis players go on court with some kind of niggle. If you are fit enough to go on court and nothing obvious (like a fall or twisting injury) occurs during the match then you are fit.

I don't think I ever saw Steffi play without some type of bandaging.

Rafa was moving very well at the FO but after two weeks of rest he's now supposed to be completely lame? People are assuming debilitating injury when he may just have been rusty on the grass. You would expect someone who hasn't played on grass for a year to move a little gingerly until they get their confidence and footwork back. Rafa has struggled similarly at past wimbledon's even after a grass tune up tournament. The difference today was that his opponent played fantastically well and Nadal was kept 4 feet behind the baseline.

In any case he lost. End of.

banbrotam wrote:

laverfan wrote:

banbrotam wrote:One thing I have noticed, that the conditons look relatively fast, i.e. like last year

It may be because today is the first day. Let us see how it plays out in the second week.

But even for the first day it looks fast(er). I think it's simple if it stays dry - then it's a bit faster

Quite agree. It looks nice and fast. The attacking players will enjoy it today.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

I am delighted for Murray's hopes that Rafa has been knocked out but it is sad to see one of the sport's all-time greats reduced to a pale shadow of what he was on grass. That is all I will say on the matter on this thread.

Its real bad for Murray's prospect, had there been a windfall match between Fed and Nadal knocking each other out then Murray could have made Merry in the semi's and now with Nadal out, Fed's mental demons are out too and if Fed catches form I have to say sorry for Murray's hopes and his fans.

Murray has the harder draw now...  Tsonga is going to be a very stern test.

[quote="banbrotam"]

falzy21 wrote:

Please calm down - unfortunately there are a few Rafa and Roger fans who go OTT about their players and then are made to look silly.

So you round it off to just Fedal fans and comfortably leave murray and Nole fans out .

Matter of fact all fans do go gagga guggu over their hero's performance.

emancipator wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:

invisiblecoolers wrote:

emancipator wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:Like I don't want to hear about Roger's back everytime he loses...

Oh please LK,

Hardly anyone talks about Roger's back when he loses except if it's blindingly obvious that he's got a problem.

The difference with Nadal is that EVERYTIME he loses the knees are cited.

Rarely people blamed Roger's losses to Benny and Nishi was due to his back, Roger fans do know he is too old and any wins from here on is a bonus and loss is not an issue.

Nadal came up with a stunning quote saying, "Rosol might have won even if he was fit" thats an indirect dig saying he didn't beat me when I was actually fit and I wasn't fit that day, its hard to believe people play for 5 sets and complain they are not fit.

Harsh. No it's not. I ran a marathon when I wasn't fit. I've also rowed in races when I've been ill and played rugby matches with leg injuries and have struggled with my knees ever since said marathon. Still won a rowing regatta since then. Some people love competing and their sport enough that they will compete to the bitter end even if they are in quite a lot of pain

I expect most tennis players go on court with some kind of niggle. If you are fit enough to go on court and nothing obvious (like a fall or twisting injury) occurs during the match then you are fit.

I don't think I ever saw Steffi play without some type of bandaging.

Rafa was moving very well at the FO but after two weeks of rest he's now supposed to be completely lame? People are assuming debilitating injury when he may just have been rusty on the grass. You would expect someone who hasn't played on grass for a year to move a little gingerly until they get their confidence and footwork back. Rafa has struggled similarly at past wimbledon's even after a grass tune up tournament. The difference today was that his opponent played fantastically well and Nadal was kept 4 feet behind the baseline.

In any case he lost. End of.

Oh, I am sure that it was no full blown injury, just struggling to play through the pain and against an inspired opponent. I just think that it's not fair to say that people are all equally fit because they both decided to go ahead with the match. Anyway. Rafa is out, he didn't play well not just in his movement but in his overall game, Darcis did play well, very well, and it's probably best for Rafa in the long run to end his run now rather than play too long and miss another 8 months