Ashes: First Test

First topic message reminder :

It's weird...no thread on T1 yet
Ashton Agar will play is the breaking news.

Duty281 wrote:So would 5 down, if we get another, make it England's day?

 well it would mean a split day. However aus will be gutted and have no confidence . England will be well on the up..

So england favs again

msp83 wrote:Hughes just has to start slogging. Not good enough to hang around, if he could somehow manage to score a quickish 40-50, it could mean something.

Are you on drugs?

Hughes has a FCC average of 49 and 21 hundreds

You don't get that by 'slogging'

Gerry SA wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Its out its out simple as that

Never said it wasn't

Just an average decision IMO

 Not sure what an average decision means- it was however a 50/50 call

mystiroakey wrote:

Duty281 wrote:So would 5 down, if we get another, make it England's day?

 well it would mean a split day. However aus will be gutted and have no confidence . England will be well on the up..

So england favs again

I suppose this is quite similar to Lords 2005, on that opening day. Only the roles have been reversed.

Now Cooky, get Swann on!

Gerry SA wrote:Average decision if you ask me.

Brushing the outside of leg pole

Rogers would feel hard done by.....fallacy of DRS

KP_fan wrote:

alfie wrote:Little detail FACTS like that won't stop KP_f in his relentless campaign to denigrate critically analyse Flower , Giles and any other England official no other offical charged here  

amended to reality

Haha  

Full marks for the comeback , KP_f  

We will just have to continue to disagree.

mystiroakey wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Its out its out simple as that

Never said it wasn't

Just an average decision IMO

 Not sure what an average decision means- it was however a 50/50 call

Brushing outside leg seems harsh to hang a man with IMO

Might be Swann's last home Test series, he is getting on a bit now.

Come on Swanny!

alfie wrote:Sorry , msp , I didn't mean to put you in a basket with KP_f...

Just found it amusing that in a few posts three chaps , all I think Indian fans , weighed in quite strongly re the Finn/Bresnan issue.  I know it is just coincidence , and no offense intended I assure you.

I think we actually hold similar views on their respective merits  for Test cricket , though we differ a bit on the ODIs  

Where is Mike when you need him??!

KP_fan wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Average decision if you ask me.

Brushing the outside of leg pole

Rogers would feel hard done by.....fallacy of DRS

 he got out on a 50/50 call. it clipped the stumps with more than 5% of the ball. Unless it was under that(the margin of hawk eyes error) then there is nothing to feel hard done by at all.

 Without DRS he would have still been out!!

Good Sportsmen just crack on and don'feel hard done by. The rules are the rules

will Broad not bowl at all  
wow on a pitch like that..that's a terrible blow for england

mystiroakey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Average decision if you ask me.

Brushing the outside of leg pole

Rogers would feel hard done by.....fallacy of DRS

 he got out on a 50/50 call. it clipped the stumps with more than 5% of the ball. Unless it was under that(the margin of hawk eyes error) then there is nothing to feel hard done by at all.

 Without DRS he would have still been out!!

Good Sportsmen just crack on and don'feel hard done by. The rules are the rules

Exactly. No DRS = Out anyway

Steven Smith seems to be what Phillip Hughes was back in 2009.

Uncomplicated. Clear mind. Just hit the ball.

mystiroakey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Average decision if you ask me.

Brushing the outside of leg pole

Rogers would feel hard done by.....fallacy of DRS

 he got out on a 50/50 call. it clipped the stumps with more than 5% of the ball. Unless it was under that(the margin of hawk eyes error) then there is nothing to feel hard done by at all.

 Without DRS he would have still been out!!

Good Sportsmen just crack on and don'feel hard done by. The rules are the rules

hard done by the umpire...who if had ruled orginally N.O.... noboady would have complained

and DRS woud have then ruled hiom also N.O...hence the fallacy

Smith showing real positive intent here, straightaway taking the attack to Swann. What is the latest news on Broad's injury?

Smith advances and hits Swann for six !

Is he the designated "put him off his length" man ?

Anderson to continue ...but I think I need to get some sleep...should be a good game tomorrow.

KP_fan wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Average decision if you ask me.

Brushing the outside of leg pole

Rogers would feel hard done by.....fallacy of DRS

 he got out on a 50/50 call. it clipped the stumps with more than 5% of the ball. Unless it was under that(the margin of hawk eyes error) then there is nothing to feel hard done by at all.

 Without DRS he would have still been out!!

Good Sportsmen just crack on and don'feel hard done by. The rules are the rules

hard done by the umpire...who if had ruled orginally N.O.... noboady would have complained

and DRS woud have then ruled hiom also N.O...hence the fallacy

No, it deliberately leaves some decision-making in the hands of the umpire.

KP_fan wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:Average decision if you ask me.

Brushing the outside of leg pole

Rogers would feel hard done by.....fallacy of DRS

 he got out on a 50/50 call. it clipped the stumps with more than 5% of the ball. Unless it was under that(the margin of hawk eyes error) then there is nothing to feel hard done by at all.

 Without DRS he would have still been out!!

Good Sportsmen just crack on and don'feel hard done by. The rules are the rules

hard done by the umpire...who if had ruled orginally N.O.... noboady would have complained

and DRS woud have then ruled hiom also N.O...hence the fallacy

 50/50 call as i said. if it went the other way anderson and england would have been just as hard done by as he and aus were as it worked out. No falacy at all. DRS isnt perfect but it helps the game- we all know this.

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:Hughes just has to start slogging. Not good enough to hang around, if he could somehow manage to score a quickish 40-50, it could mean something.

Are you on drugs?

Hughes has a FCC average of 49 and 21 hundreds

You don't get that by 'slogging'

Ajay Jadeja averaged in the mid-50s in first class cricket. Mark Ramprakash scored over 100 tons in first class cricket!. Haven't seen Hughes after those twin hundreds against South Africa all that age ago have you?

duty wrote:
No, it deliberately leaves some decision-making in the hands of the umpire

which conflicts with the underlying argument for using DRS...when you have technology why not use it.

part of the ball clipping the stump should be the same decision...in all cases

KP_fan wrote:

duty wrote:
No, it deliberately leaves some decision-making in the hands of the umpire

which conflicts with the underlying argument for using DRS...when you have technology why not use it.

part of the ball clipping the stump should be the same decision...in all cases

If that was the case, why have umpires at all?

KP_fan wrote:

duty wrote:
No, it deliberately leaves some decision-making in the hands of the umpire

which conflicts with the underlying argument for using DRS...when you have technology why not use it.

part of the ball clipping the stump should be the same decision...in all cases

 drs is to prevent howlers. and it does..

However I would be fine only using Hawkeye- but i would reduce the size of the stumps by a specific margin of error.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

duty wrote:
No, it deliberately leaves some decision-making in the hands of the umpire

which conflicts with the underlying argument for using DRS...when you have technology why not use it.

part of the ball clipping the stump should be the same decision...in all cases

If that was the case, why have umpires at all?

who will hold the bowler's caps  

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:Hughes just has to start slogging. Not good enough to hang around, if he could somehow manage to score a quickish 40-50, it could mean something.

Are you on drugs?

Hughes has a FCC average of 49 and 21 hundreds

You don't get that by 'slogging'

Ajay Jadeja averaged in the mid-50s in first class cricket. Mark Ramprakash scored over 100 tons in first class cricket!. Haven't seen Hughes after those twin hundreds against South Africa all that age ago have you?

He's 24 so he hardly passed it. Batsmen peak is between 28-32. So he's still plenty good enough to score 1000s of runs.

He's scored a good 126 in SL
He scored 88 on a tough pitch in SA
Scored 69 in Ind and was trigger

So he still gets runs.

No one is gonna score twin hundreds every Test.

Maybe you lot are right about smith- Maybe he is closer to J root than L wright!

eng hampered by lack of 3rd seamer

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:Hughes just has to start slogging. Not good enough to hang around, if he could somehow manage to score a quickish 40-50, it could mean something.

Are you on drugs?

Hughes has a FCC average of 49 and 21 hundreds

You don't get that by 'slogging'

Ajay Jadeja averaged in the mid-50s in first class cricket. Mark Ramprakash scored over 100 tons in first class cricket!. Haven't seen Hughes after those twin hundreds against South Africa all that age ago have you?

He's 24 so he hardly passed it. Batsmen peak is between 28-32. So he's still plenty good enough to score 1000s of runs.

He's scored a good 126 in SL
He scored 88 on a tough pitch in SA
Scored 69 in Ind and was trigger

So he still gets runs.

No one is gonna score twin hundreds every Test.

Watched that innings of 69? Or any other innings between the knocks you've mentioned? Watched him making Chris Martin the Fantom look like Bradman? Didn't even manage to find a different fielder to edg a catch behind against him!!. Can't play pace, can't play spin. Was protected against the South African quicks, even today an attempted cover from the new ball!.

mystiroakey wrote:Maybe you lot are right about smith- Maybe he is closer to J root than L wright!

In all honesty I think Smith was poorly managed early in his career.

Australia seemed to declare him the next Shane Warne just because he bowled leg spin.

He wasn't ready to bat in the top 6.

Now he's tightened the technique up.

He's looks a proper Test player.

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:Hughes just has to start slogging. Not good enough to hang around, if he could somehow manage to score a quickish 40-50, it could mean something.

Are you on drugs?

Hughes has a FCC average of 49 and 21 hundreds

You don't get that by 'slogging'

Ajay Jadeja averaged in the mid-50s in first class cricket. Mark Ramprakash scored over 100 tons in first class cricket!. Haven't seen Hughes after those twin hundreds against South Africa all that age ago have you?

He's 24 so he hardly passed it. Batsmen peak is between 28-32. So he's still plenty good enough to score 1000s of runs.

He's scored a good 126 in SL
He scored 88 on a tough pitch in SA
Scored 69 in Ind and was trigger

So he still gets runs.

No one is gonna score twin hundreds every Test.

Watched that innings of 69? Or any other innings between the knocks you've mentioned? Watched him making Chris Martin the Fantom look like Bradman? Didn't even manage to find a different fielder to edg a catch behind against him!!. Can't play pace, can't play spin. Was protected against the South African quicks, even today an attempted cover from the new ball!.

Hughes has been remodelling his technique for 18 months now.

He should've been left to develop at Shield level, but he top scores in the Shield every year. So he's remodelling whilst playing Tests.

Australia don't have many good batsmen and Hughes' running to catch up.

Give him another 18-24 months before you write him off.

Smith has improved a great deal after he started focusing on his batting. Terrific intent with the bat always, and has some pretty good skill set against spin bowling in particular.
End of the day, Australia 75-4.

Close of play then. Exciting first day, honours probably just about even. England need quick wickets in the morning and will be targeting a minor lead. Fingers crossed for Broad!

Australia's day...just.

52-48.

Broad's injury might have cost England 2 wickets.

very even day yep.

However aus could get a lead out of this- But i doubt many would back a big one.

england need a decent 2nd innings..

someone poison siddle !

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:Hughes just has to start slogging. Not good enough to hang around, if he could somehow manage to score a quickish 40-50, it could mean something.

Are you on drugs?

Hughes has a FCC average of 49 and 21 hundreds

You don't get that by 'slogging'

Ajay Jadeja averaged in the mid-50s in first class cricket. Mark Ramprakash scored over 100 tons in first class cricket!. Haven't seen Hughes after those twin hundreds against South Africa all that age ago have you?

He's 24 so he hardly passed it. Batsmen peak is between 28-32. So he's still plenty good enough to score 1000s of runs.

He's scored a good 126 in SL
He scored 88 on a tough pitch in SA
Scored 69 in Ind and was trigger

So he still gets runs.

No one is gonna score twin hundreds every Test.

Watched that innings of 69? Or any other innings between the knocks you've mentioned? Watched him making Chris Martin the Fantom look like Bradman? Didn't even manage to find a different fielder to edg a catch behind against him!!. Can't play pace, can't play spin. Was protected against the South African quicks, even today an attempted cover from the new ball!.

Hughes has been remodelling his technique for 18 months now.

He should've been left to develop at Shield level, but he top scores in the Shield every year. So he's remodelling whilst playing Tests.

Australia don't have many good batsmen and Hughes' running to catch up.

Give him another 18-24 months before you write him off.  

Hughes was remodeling his technique for 18 months. He had a pretty poor series in India. Yet he's picked for the Ashes tour. Uzman Khawaja, who also has a decent first class record is only traveling around without getting a chance. Steven Smith, who has improved a lot over the last 18 months or so and actually delivered with the bat, wasn't even originally picked for the squad!. Not exactly Hughes' problem, but atrocious selection from Australia.

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:

Gerry SA wrote:

msp83 wrote:Hughes just has to start slogging. Not good enough to hang around, if he could somehow manage to score a quickish 40-50, it could mean something.

Are you on drugs?

Hughes has a FCC average of 49 and 21 hundreds

You don't get that by 'slogging'

Ajay Jadeja averaged in the mid-50s in first class cricket. Mark Ramprakash scored over 100 tons in first class cricket!. Haven't seen Hughes after those twin hundreds against South Africa all that age ago have you?

He's 24 so he hardly passed it. Batsmen peak is between 28-32. So he's still plenty good enough to score 1000s of runs.

He's scored a good 126 in SL
He scored 88 on a tough pitch in SA
Scored 69 in Ind and was trigger

So he still gets runs.

No one is gonna score twin hundreds every Test.

Watched that innings of 69? Or any other innings between the knocks you've mentioned? Watched him making Chris Martin the Fantom look like Bradman? Didn't even manage to find a different fielder to edg a catch behind against him!!. Can't play pace, can't play spin. Was protected against the South African quicks, even today an attempted cover from the new ball!.

Hughes has been remodelling his technique for 18 months now.

He should've been left to develop at Shield level, but he top scores in the Shield every year. So he's remodelling whilst playing Tests.

Australia don't have many good batsmen and Hughes' running to catch up.

Give him another 18-24 months before you write him off.  

Hughes was remodeling his technique for 18 months. He had a pretty poor series in India. Yet he's picked for the Ashes tour. Uzman Khawaja, who also has a decent first class record is only traveling around without getting a chance. Steven Smith, who has improved a lot over the last 18 months or so and actually delivered with the bat, wasn't even originally picked for the squad!. Not exactly Hughes' problem, but atrocious selection from Australia.

As I said Hughes top scored in the Shield so he's earnt his place.

Khawaja isn't considered due to falling out with CA. There are happy to let him be a tourist...

Well thats a good discussion going on between msp and gerry. Regarding hughes I will go with msp. Above all Australia again back on floor after what can be called as a better start..After bowling out England to 215 they are hanging on the hill with 75-4. Smith and Hughes though saved from the fierce attack.

Think an even first day.
Alastair Cook, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Matt Prior. England's 4 topclass batsmen, played poor shots to get out. Taking nothing away from the Australians they produced some quality stuff, but England need their senior batsmen to much better, and these players are capable of doing that. Ian Bell continued with his extended poor run. Jonny Bairstow and Joe Root couldn't convert the start either. And Root didn't looked his usual self, that's the sense I get. Perhaps its about the pressures of your first day of Ashes, and the move up the order. Allout 215 was a pretty poor effort. Peter Siddle produced some excellent deliveries, and showed his quality at this level. James Pattinson and Mitchell Starc weren't at their best, but after some initial troubles, Pattinson in particular slowly settled down, and got the rewards. And what was that all about Nathan Lyon? Think Australian management has been messing him about for some time. Dropping him after that first test in India was a pretty poor move, and now he's yet again dropped after picking up 7-94 in an innings, and 9 wickets in the match in total in his last test, and he wasn't dropped for Shane Warne's test return!. Poor player management I must say, and Ashton Agar has to do a lot lot better than what he managed in the first innings to justify this very surprising call.
After a poor effort with the bat, Finn and Anderson brought England right back into the game. Twin strikes from Finn in an over, taking out Watson who was trying to get on with it, and had he stayed on, things could have been very diferent. Then Anderson with an absolute corker to get the big wicket of Michael Clarke, and then the one of Chris Rogers who was settling down well. Steven Smith has looked good, and Phillip Hughes survived the day. Haddin can bat, and the Australian lower order often show that typical Australian resistance, Starc has the makings of a bowling all-rounder, Pattinson and Siddle can fight it out. One significant partnership can get Australia close to that England score. But with Graeme Swann in there, England won't mind too much if they could restrict Australia to a lead under 30-40. But Stuart Broad returning to the bowling crease is very crucial for England.

msp83 wrote:Smith has improved a great deal after he started focusing on his batting. Terrific intent with the bat always, and has some pretty good skill set against spin bowling in particular.
End of the day, Australia 75-4.

IPL exposure has imrpoved his big match temperament

Odd day. Most of England's players got themselves in them out, with some very inconsistent Aussie bowling.

You'd put England marginally ahead with Australia best players gone and them batting last

What a delivery from Jimmy. Would do for anyone

caught up on channel 5 in highlights what I had missed live.

--while there were a number of clean bolds  during the day...Anderson's was the ball of the day.
althouhg it was hailed as one of the greatest deliveries by a number of commentators....it wasn't the first time I have seen this skill from anderson...to bring the ball in with the angle and drift and seam it away clean bowling a RHB......

Had seen him do it this a number of times starting about a decade ago under Hussian's captaincy......good to see him come so far without losing this skill or much of his pace.

--Broad's was the most pleasing little inning on eyes......he has natural gift with the bat....standing tall and punching throuhg the line...shame he can't bowl

--the diffrence between both sides so far...English batsman most of them got starts and threw it away....in contrast Australia's top order looked edgy and got out to good deliveries generally.

--the risk for England is when the ball loses shine....Aus's middle and lower order can all hit 30s and 40s and take the game 100 runs away from Engöland's paltry total

--Smith is the most amzing Aussie talent...one with X-factor...I say this again..this ashes might turn him into Aus mainstay and a star.

Broad winds my up to the max- he can bat. but he doesnt practise enough- he is a good batter- not the best slogger. If he practised hard he could have been a natural allrounder

mystiroakey wrote:Broad winds my up to the max- he can bat. but he doesnt practise enough- he is a good batter- not the best slogger. If he practised hard he could have been a natural allrounder

he is very straight bat and upright...tchnically more correct then a number of specialist batters.

I don't know....but feel that he struggles hard to stay on top of his fitness to be able to bowl at 85mph...whihc is his primary skill.

and hence isn't left with mental energy to focus on batting

I remember watching him donkies years ago in his first test match at lords- and he batted out of his skin with amazing technical ability!- i think he scored a 70 odd v SA.

At that time he really had some skillz.. He has gradually got worse- probally more due to the fact he bats so far down the order and has a role to slog over bat..

Apparently Broad and one of the Leics players used to just go out and see who slog to 50 quickest at club level

well that doesnt help either

I remember Broad getting some real strong compliments from Sir Geoff B for his batting skills and we all know that doesn't come easy at all. But Broad's batting has digressed badly in the last couple of years. I have seen him performing better with the ball after he scores a few runs. He played a nice little hand today, but that Pattinson strike on the shoulder seems to have meant more than it appeared at that point. If Broad doesn't bowl much tomorrow, it will be a huge blow for England and a massive challenge for captain Cook. He can't overwork Anderson, he can't overbowl Finn who's greatest asset is his pace coupled with his bounce, and long spells might not help too much in that regard. Swann has an even bigger role in that scenario, and young Joe, KP and Trott will have to step in at some point if the Australians start resisting.

Well I would say it is maybe just slightly in the Aussie's favour, I still think they should get a slender lead, they have a deep tail.

However an early wicket or two in the morning could change things.

A slender lead for the Aussies isn't enough really

Well it all depends on how we bat 2nd time round.

Surely we can't play as badly as we did today, again!

When your best 4 batsmen in Cook, Trott, KP and Prior get themselves out with silly shots, you're gonna struggle