Just after a little advice

Hi Guys,

I occassionally post in the Golf section, but this is my first topic! I'm just looking for a little bit of advice regarding my driving.

I've been playing golf for about 10 years now, and up to this point have been extremely hesistant using a driver, because I always seem a little aimless with it and it appears to cause more trouble than it's worth on the course. Up until now, I have relied upon my trusted 3 iron off the tee, and recently my Cobra Baffler which is suiting me well. I currently play off of 12, but am really looking to reduce this and understand that I will need to start using my driver to even start lowering it.

I've put some serious driving range shifts in over the last few weeks, and i've improved significantly, albeit, not quite to the level where I think I can confidently and consistently hit it well on the course.

I filmed my swing and realised that my stance was too bent, and I was standing too far from the ball despite it feeling comfortable. Because of this I was hitting a horrible fade most of the time. I've sorted this now, and stand closer to the ball, more upright than I was. I've sorted my grip which before wasn't quite far enough round the club. I can hit some very nice drives now, but I'd say 2 in 5 are still veering off right as they climb. I'm a little lost as to what it could be now, but think my swing set up might have something to do with it.

Any advice you can possibly provide will be warmly received!

Thanks

Hi bluestone, if the ball is spinning off to the right then it's likely you've got an out-to-in swing path I.e you're cutting across the back of the ball. This can be caused by loads of different things but I think your best bet is to have some lessons

Hi shclaff, thanks for the reply.

I have thought about lessons, and I might be forced to have some at some point if the problem persists. Truth is, I haven't really got the time outside of playing the few rounds I do have time to do.

I just feel that it's a little tweak which I'm currently not doing. My problem is I hit a straight slice, so the ball starts straight but then trails off right. It's pretty annoying. I thought the root of a straight-slice was an open club face, so that's why I'm thinking my problem might be my setup. I was hoping some guys on here could run me through their pre-drive routine to make sure they're paralell and everything's aligned?

the only way i've found is to practice hard at the right things. to know what these are, i've always needed a pro to take a look at my swing. the benefit of this is that not only are you confident that your practice sessions are constructive, but this also translates to more of a positive attitude on the course.

Thanks for the reply barragan. I guess you're right, and I think the positive re-enforcement is an important thing. It's tempting to think that just because you hit one good shot that you're swing is ok, even though a few of the basics might be off and it was a fluke.

I think rather than lessons on a range, I would prefer to play a few holes with a pro, just so as you say, the positive attitude is developed on the course rather than on the range where there's no pressure.

It's just so frustrating that I've got this problem. My irons and hybrid shots are fine and consistent. I guess it's just the change of setup that's really throwing me off.

Funnily enough I have been stuck at 10-11 h'cap for the past couple of years and just won my last 3 medals by NOT using the driver! Hacking out the cabbage really eats into your score. You may want to try improving your short game, mine has really improved, feeling confident that I'll get up and down from within 100yards.

If your shots start straight, then fade away (as opposed to starting left and then slicing), it's because you aren't squaring the clubface. The swing path is fine.

This could be because you aren't releasing the club through the ball. Maybe your wrists and arms aren't rotating properly.

It also could be because you have too much weight on your left side (assuming you are right handed) at impact. This could be because your body is spinning too fast and your arms can't keep up.

Or it could be that you are gripping the club too tightly which prevents a good release.

As a practice drill, hold the club right at the bottom of the grip, and take slow half swings. Make sure you can see the butt end of the club at the top of the backswing, and the follow through. Build that feeling of the club pulling your hands through impact.

MontysMerkin wrote:Funnily enough I have been stuck at 10-11 h'cap for the past couple of years and just won my last 3 medals by NOT using the driver! Hacking out the cabbage really eats into your score. You may want to try improving your short game, mine has really improved, feeling confident that I'll get up and down from within 100yards.

Completely agree! If I could, I'd just play with my irons every round, but I get some serious grief form my playing partners.

My short game has certainly got room to improve, so I will take to the putting greens more often. Thanks MontyMerkin.

George1507 wrote:If your shots start straight, then fade away (as opposed to starting left and then slicing), it's because you aren't squaring the clubface. The swing path is fine.

This could be because you aren't releasing the club through the ball. Maybe your wrists and arms aren't rotating properly.

It also could be because you have too much weight on your left side (assuming you are right handed) at impact. This could be because your body is spinning too fast and your arms can't keep up.

Or it could be that you are gripping the club too tightly which prevents a good release.

As a practice drill, hold the club right at the bottom of the grip, and take slow half swings. Make sure you can see the butt end of the club at the top of the backswing, and the follow through. Build that feeling of the club pulling your hands through impact.

Thanks for that reply George, that's the sort of thing I was after really. My brother agreed with you regarding the club face, but then I felt I was closing it too much that it was unnatural. If you were to place the driver on the ground and rest it naturally (so it appears quite open), how much do you close it my? I'd say I almost close it by about 25-30 degrees? I think I also have a tendancy to swing with my arms too much, rather than rely on rotating my hips.

Maybe you've got a driver with an open bias? I have always had a neutral driver because I want to know that it's me and not the driver shaping the shots

I honestly didn't know you could buy neutral-faced drivers golfermartin. Does that just mean when the club is resting on the turf that the face is naturally pointing straight?

It sounds to me like you're not used to the shallow loft on a driver, so hold it open at address. Because it has very little loft, and because the ball should be opposite your left heel, you shouldn't be able to see much if any of the face of the club at address. You say you didn't know you could get neutral drivers, but they're the norm, an open (or closed) bias is a relatively recent gimmick.

Thanks smithersjones.
 
Leaving my club face open seems to be wrosening the drives though, and I get an even worse fade. I've been closing it recently, but not excessively so, and this seems to have helped.
 
I really wasn't aware of the different driver faces- I've never been that sort of guy though, I just tend to pick up and play. I thought all drivers were typically open faced when resting naturally on the turf, but obivously this isn't the case.
 
Thanks for all the feedback guys, much appreciated.

That's exactly what you'd expect, the more open at address, the worst the fade/slice. If your club naturally sits open at address it may be that the heel is in contact with the ground rather than the centre of the clubhead. That would cause a normally neutral club to sit open.

Ah, ok. So you're saying that I need to make sure the heel of my club isn't in contact with the turf at my setup, to avoid the club being open?

You're a better player than me Bluestone so you can take this or leave it - but i used to slice all my drives until i realised the importance of really turning my hands over as you're going through the ball (in my mind it's even a bit before the contact owing to the shaft length). It's easy to leave your hands open but you really have to get them turning over. now my miss with the driver is a hook.....
Best of luck

MustPuttBetter wrote:You're a better player than me Bluestone so you can take this or leave it - but i used to slice all my drives until i realised the importance of really turning my hands over as you're going through the ball (in my mind it's even a bit before the contact owing to the shaft length). It's easy to leave your hands open but you really have to get them turning over. now my miss with the driver is a hook.....
Best of luck

 Ha thanks MustPuttBetter, appreciate the response. Your screen name resonates with me as well- another part of my game I have to address!

It really has taken me a while to get used to the hand positioning and movement with a driver, but I haven't tried exaggerating it like you suggest. I will give it a try. Thank you.

Hope you sort out your hook!

If you can borrow someone's TaylorMade r9 or r11, you can adjust the head to be open, neutral or closed. If your problem really is not squaring the face, a few shots with the head adjusted to 'closed' should tell you a lot. A shot that goes straight, or slightly left without any fade will tell you that you have been addressing the ball with the clubface open.

If you hit the same shot as with your own driver, then you aren't squaring the club on your downswing. Most times that's because you will have too much weight on your left side at that stage in the swing. Try to keep your weight more on your right side during the downswing. Avoid 'pushing off' your right leg.

Thanks George, that's very useful. Come to think of it, I think my weight distribution might be one of the problems. I don't think I put enough weight on my right hand side or transfer it well enough during the swing. I am often quite unbalanced after striking the ball with my driver and this could be because of that.

Ah, ok, if you are off balance at the end of your swing, then that's a possible cause of getting ahead of the ball.

Also try practicing with your feet together. You can't push off with your feet together.

Great, thanks

George1507 wrote:If your shots start straight, then fade away (as opposed to starting left and then slicing), it's because you aren't squaring the clubface. The swing path is fine.

With respect George, I'm not sure I'd agree with this. Studies have shown that about 85% of the ball's initial direction is dictated by where the club face is pointing. So if his shots start straight and then fade ther is probably a square face at impact and a slight out to in swing. It should be noted also that I am not Butch Harmon, my opinion is based on some articles I have read.

Ditto. I'm in no position of authority myself, but have heard the same - from other posters here and a number of magazine articles etc.

For those technically minded, I'd recommend taking a look at the accompanying videos for chapter 1 of the golf.com driving instruction book:

http://www.golf.com/instruction/video-lessons-golf-magazines-best-driving-instruction-book-ever

incontinentia wrote:

George1507 wrote:If your shots start straight, then fade away (as opposed to starting left and then slicing), it's because you aren't squaring the clubface. The swing path is fine.

With respect George, I'm not sure I'd agree with this. Studies have shown that about 85% of the ball's initial direction is dictated by where the club face is pointing. So if his shots start straight and then fade ther is probably a square face at impact and a slight out to in swing. It should be noted also that I am not Butch Harmon, my opinion is based on some articles I have read.

Yes, I've read that stuff too. I guess it depends on whether you want to believe a few guys trying to sell some books and videos, or a century of pros teaching the great golfing public.

Solve the extra credit section on this and you will have your answer.

http://www.astro.umass.edu/~schloerb/ph281/Projects/3/index.htm

incontinentia wrote: So if his shots start straight and then fade ther is probably a square face at impact and a slight out to in swing.

Agreed!

blues get a lesson or post your swing up on here if you want some advice

McLaren wrote:Solve the extra credit section on this and you will have your answer.

http://www.astro.umass.edu/~schloerb/ph281/Projects/3/index.htm

  

Many thanks for all the feedback guys, really appreciated. I will let you know how it goes!

Mysti, I know that would be the easiest thing. I think I might actually post a video at some point, it's a lot easier than trying to explain in detail every nuance of your swing!

Live with what you've got (and trust): Aim further to the left.





or get some lessons

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

I've been playing for a while now without a 6 or 7 iron, but always managed. Unfortauntely, my clubs have now aged and in one round, I broke my 3 and 5 iron!

I'm now looking at investing in some new ones, and wondered if anyone had any recommendations? My previous set were cavities, but after trying my brother's blades, I think I would like to try them. Obviously I will test a load in the shop before I buy them. I'm looking around the £400-600 mark, so any recommendations?

blue,
i picked up a second hand set of mizuno mp32 blades in 2011 for £95 to try out blades and see if i could handle them. i used them for the end of that season and all through last year before getting custom fit for a set of titleist cb(3-6) and mb(7-P). very much doubt you'll get a decent set of blades new for less than your top end mark, but 2nd hand is pretty much as good as, and leaves some extra cash for investing in decent wedges, perhaps a good hybrid 2 or 3iron.

p.s, sold the mizzies for £130, so buying a top brand won't cost you when you move them on either if you get a decent deal for them.

bluestonevedder wrote:...I think I also have a tendancy to swing with my arms too much, rather than rely on rotating my hips.

If you're doing this (and I do mean if - get someone to check it out or look at video as often with a golf swing, 'feel isn't real'), it's likely you're not meeting the ball on an in-to-out path at impact. Where does your typical driver ball flight start? Left of target, on target or right of target (I'm assuming you're right handed)....?

George1507 wrote:Yes, I've read that stuff too. I guess it depends on whether you want to believe a few guys trying to sell some books and videos, or a century of pros teaching the great golfing public.

Sorry George but you're wrong on this. It's plain physics and as Scotty said many times "You cannae change the Laws of Physics Captain". If in doubt, watch this video:

Spoiler:

barragan wrote:blue,
i picked up a second hand set of mizuno mp32 blades in 2011 for £95 to try out blades and see if i could handle them. i used them for the end of that season and all through last year before getting custom fit for a set of titleist cb(3-6) and mb(7-P). very much doubt you'll get a decent set of blades new for less than your top end mark, but 2nd hand is pretty much as good as, and leaves some extra cash for investing in decent wedges, perhaps a good hybrid 2 or 3iron.

 I wouldn't mind 2 hand at all to be honest barragan. Like you say, it frees up some extra cash for a decent wedge (which I really need!)

Heard good things ab out Mizuno, and my Dad swears by his. I will check them out. Planning to go out this Saturday morning to a few shops and test out a little range of theirs on their simulator screen. Might make some notes and even write them up here if I get the chance.

navyblueshorts wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:...I think I also have a tendancy to swing with my arms too much, rather than rely on rotating my hips.

If you're doing this (and I do mean if - get someone to check it out or look at video as often with a golf swing, 'feel isn't real'), it's likely you're not meeting the ball on an in-to-out path at impact. Where does your typical driver ball flight start? Left of target, on target or right of target (I'm assuming you're right handed)....?

George1507 wrote:Yes, I've read that stuff too. I guess it depends on whether you want to believe a few guys trying to sell some books and videos, or a century of pros teaching the great golfing public.

Sorry George but you're wrong on this. It's plain physics and as Scotty said many times "You cannae change the Laws of Physics Captain". If in doubt, watch this video:

Spoiler:

 Thanks for the reply navyshorts. Yeh I'm right handed.

My ball flight starts of perfectly straight, then fades off right.

I got the cleveland 788 cb this year and I have to say they are brilliant. Not blades so perhaps a little off what you're asking for but I don't think I'm a good enough ball striker for pure blades. These to me are an excellent compromise with sufficient workability, good forged feel whilst retaining forgiveness. Adding in the KBS tour stiff shafts has improved shot dispersion and lowered trajectory too (versus Project X flighted 6.0 previously n my Bridgestone J36).

Other option is have you any mates with spare sets of blades you could try?

bluestonevedder wrote:...My ball flight starts of perfectly straight, then fades off right.

Sounds like you're making contact on a very slight out-to-in path. Where's your ball position with the driver? Easiest thing might be to nudge the ball position back towards your right foot a bit.

navyblueshorts wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:...My ball flight starts of perfectly straight, then fades off right.

Sounds like you're making contact on a very slight out-to-in path. Where's your ball position with the driver? Easiest thing might be to nudge the ball position back towards your right foot a bit.

 I play it just inside my inner left ankle, pretty much directly in line. What would nudging the ball back towards the right do?

Really appreciate this navyblueshorts

bluestonevedder wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

bluestonevedder wrote:...My ball flight starts of perfectly straight, then fades off right.

Sounds like you're making contact on a very slight out-to-in path. Where's your ball position with the driver? Easiest thing might be to nudge the ball position back towards your right foot a bit.

 I play it just inside my inner left ankle, pretty much directly in line. What would nudging the ball back towards the right do?

Really appreciate this navyblueshorts

It should mean you make contact slightly earlier in the swing path (which is an inclined arc) and therefore mean it'll occur at a point when the swing path is still moving in-to-out, assuming all else stays pretty much the same that is. Did that make any sense?

Yeh completely, thanks. I'll give it a go and report back. Much appreciated.