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The Ashes: 1st Test, Trent Bridge - Final Day & Post Match Discussions

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The Ashes: 1st Test, Trent Bridge - Final Day & Post Match Discussions - Page 6 Empty The Ashes: 1st Test, Trent Bridge - Final Day & Post Match Discussions

Post by Pal Joey Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

England:
Alastair Cook*, Joe Root, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Ian Bell, Jonny Bairstow,
Matt Prior†, Stuart Broad, Graeme Swann, Steven Finn, James Anderson

Australia:
Shane Watson, Chris Rogers, Ed Cowan, Michael Clarke*, Steve Smith, Phil Hughes,
Brad Haddin†, Peter Siddle, Mitchell Starc, James Pattinson, Ashton Agar


Last edited by Linebreaker on Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:59 pm

Snicko isnt used for reviews... By definition all it does is pick up sounds... It was obviously an edge, but Facts is... Suprisingly right about it. It isnt reliable... The noise could come from anywhere... Hence it doesnt get used. Cool TV tool tho
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Post by Gerry SA Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:00 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
alfie wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:Poor man's Steyn, Anderson, gets a 10 wicket match bag against the weakest Australian side in loving memory.

Will he get a knighthood?

Come on Gerry ...we all admire Steyn on here  ...why do you have to snipe at Jimmy all the time ?  It is getting a bit tedious...
So why are your idiot former players Botham, Strauss, Lloyd etc

Proclaiming Anderson the best bowler in the world?

Steyn is streets ahead.

Bless your insecurities. Anderson is more talented than Steyn. Steyn is more consistent than Anderson.

Ergo, Steyn is the best in the world. But he's certainly not the most talented.
Anderson more talented? When pigs fly.

Anderson one dimensional medium paced dobber.

Anderson averages 26 at home. 35 away from home.

Anderson has 12 x 5 hauls at home. Only 3 away.

Anderson is a home town bully nothing more.

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Post by Duty281 Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:01 pm

James Anderson gets man of the match. clap 

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Post by alfie Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:01 pm

Interestingly , I am sat here in Melbourne watching Australian TV...and I have just heard Alan Border (remember him ?) say that he rates Anderson - right now - as the best bowler in the world.

Now I would not go that far , as I think Steyn is a genius ...but I do think that any gap that exists is far smaller than a lot of South Africans think.

Not that it matters ...I would think we could just agree we are looking at two fantastic bowlers ?

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:02 pm

As for Duty... Shame on you for even trying to intimate that Anderson is more talented than Steyn...

Clubman Jimmy couldnt buy a wicket at the Oval a year ago... When Steyn bowled the wicket suddenly got lively
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Post by Duty281 Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:02 pm

Gerry SA wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:
alfie wrote:
Gerry SA wrote:Poor man's Steyn, Anderson, gets a 10 wicket match bag against the weakest Australian side in loving memory.

Will he get a knighthood?

Come on Gerry ...we all admire Steyn on here  ...why do you have to snipe at Jimmy all the time ?  It is getting a bit tedious...
So why are your idiot former players Botham, Strauss, Lloyd etc

Proclaiming Anderson the best bowler in the world?

Steyn is streets ahead.

Bless your insecurities. Anderson is more talented than Steyn. Steyn is more consistent than Anderson.

Ergo, Steyn is the best in the world. But he's certainly not the most talented.
Anderson more talented? When pigs fly.

Anderson one dimensional medium paced dobber.

Anderson averages 26 at home. 35 away from home.

Anderson has 12 x 5 hauls at home. Only 3 away.

Anderson is a home town bully nothing more.

Oh, bless. Be gone from my presence, you clearly suffer from low intelligence and/or a delusional mindset. Where's that ignore button?

ENGLAND! Yahoo 

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Post by dyrewolfe Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:03 pm

mystiroakey wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:We repeatedly see a bright mark on the bat coinciding with the advertising which has different thermal properties to the bat.

You will notice when an English batter decision is being reviewed the commentators point this out ad nauseum.

Snicko = withdrawn from official use for being so utterly unreliable.


No system is perfect but its the best we've got at the moment. The same technology is used for both teams and the same rules apply.

Also, unless I'm very much mistaken, what the commentators think has no bearing on the umpire's decision.

Sounds like a very large bunch of sour grapes you've got there.

 was snicko withdrawn?
I  thought it is just to slow to use as of yet- however snicko are wokling on making it quicker and the ICC want to use it..

I could be wrong, but I think Snicko is only used by the commentary team at present and is not available to the umpires. I think they have to go by video replays, Hawkeye and Hotspot.


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Post by Gerry SA Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:03 pm

alfie wrote:Interestingly , I am sat here in Melbourne watching Australian TV...and I have just heard Alan Border (remember him ?) say that he rates Anderson - right now - as the best bowler in the world.

Now I would not go that far , as I think Steyn is a genius ...but I do think that any gap that exists is far smaller than a lot of South Africans think.

Not that it matters ...I would think we could just agree we are looking at two fantastic bowlers ?
Border who's flying over to work for Sky Sports for the remaining Tests...

Steyn is an all time great

Anderson might be a English great. But no more.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:03 pm

Anderson is a top bolwer.. I have no idea why we are not allowed to say that with saffas in our presence.Whistle

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Post by Gerry SA Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:04 pm

kingraf wrote:As for Duty... Shame on you for even trying to intimate that  Anderson is more talented than Steyn...

Clubman Jimmy couldnt buy a wicket at the Oval a year ago... When Steyn bowled the wicket suddenly got lively
Yep Hash taught the clubman a solid lesson

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Post by Duty281 Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:04 pm

kingraf wrote:As for Duty... Shame on you for even trying to intimate that  Anderson is more talented than Steyn...

Clubman Jimmy couldnt buy a wicket at the Oval a year ago... When Steyn bowled the wicket suddenly got lively

That's where the consistency comes into it. thumbsup 

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:04 pm

Steyn has taken 60 sticks in his laast 11 tests... Jimmy has 57 in 15!! Jimmy has 317 wickets in 83 tests... Steyn has 332 in 65.. Recent history, all round, best perfomances... Steyn is simply better
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Post by Gerry SA Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:
kingraf wrote:As for Duty... Shame on you for even trying to intimate that  Anderson is more talented than Steyn...

Clubman Jimmy couldnt buy a wicket at the Oval a year ago... When Steyn bowled the wicket suddenly got lively

That's where the consistency comes into it. thumbsup 
That's called having the X Factor.

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Post by Gerry SA Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:06 pm

kingraf wrote:Steyn has taken 60 sticks in his laast 11  tests...  Jimmy has 57 in 15!! Jimmy has 317 wickets in 83 tests... Steyn has 332 in 65.. Recent history, all round, best perfomances...  Steyn is simply better
Anderson's not even in Philander's league...

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Post by GloriousEmpire Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:07 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
GloriousEmpire wrote:We repeatedly see a bright mark on the bat coinciding with the advertising which has different thermal properties to the bat.

You will notice when an English batter decision is being reviewed the commentators point this out ad nauseum.

Snicko = withdrawn from official use for being so utterly unreliable.


No system is perfect but its the best we've got at the moment. The same technology is used for both teams and the same rules apply.

Also, unless I'm very much mistaken, what the commentators think has no bearing on the umpire's decision.

Sounds like a very large bunch of sour grapes you've got there.

If only the same rules did apply to both teams!

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Post by Duty281 Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:07 pm

Is it worth noting that Anderson had a better bowling average than Steyn last year? Even when you take into account that rubbish series Anderson had against South Africa. Whistle 

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:08 pm

Only just in Morkel's... And Morkel doesnt even use the new ball
Laugh
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Post by GloriousEmpire Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:09 pm

The point is, if the reviewing umpire had been sure about any one if the technologies (as in most cases) he wouldn't have spent so long coming up with an apparent aggregate of uncertainties.

Review technology as the Brits will say when they suffer at its hands - is supposed to allow review and changing the Howler. Now in this match it didnt - as broad stayed on and scored runs that changed the outcome. Then to add insult,!it was abused to end the game prematurely on the basis of guess work and suspicion.

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Post by Gerry SA Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:10 pm

Duty281 wrote:Is it worth noting that Anderson had a better bowling average than Steyn last year? Even when you take into account that rubbish series Anderson had against South Africa. Whistle 
That's called stat boosting against the West Indies.

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Post by alfie Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:10 pm

OK Gerry , you are entitled to your view.

I do think Border , having played a few more Tests than either you or I , has some credibility ...and I would point out that "right now" is the important issue , as we are not talking about the last few years , which is now just history...

Enough from me on this . Cheers guinness 

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:12 pm

Glorious get some anti paranoia tablets mate. I think you are old enough so you dont even have to pay for perscriptions! The NHS is there for you bud:thumbsup:

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Post by Duty281 Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:12 pm

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/651283.html

England were smarter in using their reviews, says the Australian captain.

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Post by Gerry SA Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:13 pm

alfie wrote:OK Gerry , you are entitled to your view.

I do think Border , having played a few more Tests than either you or I , has some credibility ...and I would point out that "right now" is the important issue , as we are not talking about the last few years , which is now just history...

Enough from me on this . Cheers guinness 
Border doesn't rate any South African bowler...

So I don't care what he says.

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:14 pm

blah


Last edited by trebellbobaggins on Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:14 pm

I have no problem with English people rating Jimmy, but when the difference in average is nearly eight runs, and the difference in SR is nearly 15 balls, I dont think you can blame us for getting bothered.. You guys hate Siddle comparisons
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Post by mystiroakey Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:17 pm

kingraf wrote:I have no problem with English people rating Jimmy, but when the difference in average is nearly eight runs, and the difference in SR is nearly 15 balls, I dont think you can blame us for getting bothered.. You guys hate Siddle comparisons  

This gamne isnt abaout SA, you have to understand that. The constant bringikng up of sa players is immatirial and only showing up your insensitivities..

We dont bang on about spinners all day long on SA test match conversations!

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:17 pm

Alfie... 'Right now' Anderson has played five matches since Steyns last match... Agar is a better batsman than Amla ''right now''
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Post by Duty281 Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:18 pm

kingraf wrote:I have no problem with English people rating Jimmy, but when the difference in average is nearly eight runs, and the difference in SR is nearly 15 balls, I dont think you can blame us for getting bothered.. You guys hate Siddle comparisons  

That's because Anderson wasn't very good in the early part of his career. Since 2010 though, year-by-year:

2010 - Average 22.96
2011 - Average 24.85
2012 - Average 29.50 (Not bad considering he bowled in the UAE, Sri Lanka, India, and against the best team in the world)
2013 - Average 22.75 (currently)

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Post by KP_fan Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:19 pm

--In the end the better team won....not by as much margin as their strength on paper would have suggested....and it became so close that it came down to frentic, freakish luck moments to decide the contest.

--Aus's late resurgence came after they lost the 8th wicket and decided to start attacking...whihc is what I suggested they should have done since long back.

even this morning they were too cautious......4th inning chases do require postive agression whihc came a bit too late...and hence Aus were left with just a little too much.

--going forward Aus take more positives....and if they bat more positively...and win a few tosses they will win some games.


--England is the one with problems...escaped from jail for now......Root is stuck like a frog in snake's throat...can't swalow him, can't spit it out...they have to waste him as an opener for atleast one more test as an opener to "justify their mistake"

--and Finn should not play...inspite of being the best fast bowler in Eng...because it was evident that the captain doesn't trust him inspite of his rocking spell in first inning with the new ball.

that's OK..bring back the trundler.

PS* the " umpiring mistakes" have been replaced by " DRS inconsistencies" to put it mildly.....for you never know what DRS may or may not show...and you never know how the 3rd umpire might choose to use that evidence ?
DRS adds to the glorious uncertianities of the game...and I am so glad we have kept it out


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Post by Corporalhumblebucket Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:19 pm

Glorious Empire: we need to remember the lessons of history.  Glorious empires invariably come to grief when they start believing their own propaganda... Wink

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:20 pm

I didnt even get involved in the Anderson vs Steyn until Duty brought it up... Also, we arent really bothered about our spinners being mocked, we have accepted 2nd XI Peterson...
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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:22 pm

blah


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Post by Duty281 Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:22 pm

kingraf wrote:I didnt even get involved in the Anderson vs Steyn until Duty brought it up... Also, we arent really bothered about our spinners being mocked, we have accepted 2nd XI Peterson...  

I just think it's weird that Saffers love to criticise Anderson. I know Swann's the best spinner in the world, but I don't go about criticising Ajmal to prove my point. I don't need to; Swann speaks for himself.

Clearly Steyn doesn't speak for himself, as South African fans have to criticise Anderson.

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Post by KP_fan Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:24 pm

and one more thing....England have Xeroxed some Indian pitches...and rolled them out atleast in Trentbridge.
Eng have mastered the art of bowling on slow turning, low bounce, dry scruffy reversing pitches......but the've gotta have a fully fit Swann and Anderson to exploit these

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Post by alfie Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:27 pm

kingraf wrote:Alfie... 'Right now' Anderson has played five matches since Steyns last match... Agar is a better batsman than Amla ''right now''

I think you are intelligent enough to understand what I mean , kingraf...

And I have already said I still rate Steyn as number one - just. But anyway no stress , we will all continue to hold our own views...it is a free Internet Very Happy 

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:30 pm

Anderson 2013 average is pretty impressive.. Till you read Steyn's - 12.86... Mind = blown!

Nothing against Jimmy, I would take him for Morkel in heartbeat... But I am allwed to say Steyn is better if the subject is brought up, surely??
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Post by GloriousEmpire Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/story/651283.html

England were smarter in using their reviews, says the Australian captain.

That's because Australia still adhere to some level of sporting values in cricket and wouldn't want to be labelled whingers directly after the game, however true what they might have to say was.

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Post by Duty281 Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:32 pm

kingraf wrote:Anderson 2013 average is pretty impressive.. Till you read Steyn's - 12.86... Mind = blown!

Nothing against Jimmy, I would take him for Morkel in  heartbeat... But I am allwed to say Steyn is better if the subject is brought up, surely??  

I think Steyn's better as well, so fine by me.

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Post by kingraf Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:33 pm

Alfie... I would like to hear Border clarify what he means by that tbh... South africa hasnt played in five months, so Im interested in wether forgot about Steyn, or he really puts Jimmy above him... Fair enough if he does.
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Post by Biltong Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:37 pm


Trebellbobaggins, how about posting some positive and uplifting comments, rather than such negative nonsense all the time, if you aren't degrading OZ, you are degrading England, or some ex cricketer pundit.
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Post by gboycottnut Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:46 pm

Biltong wrote:
Trebellbobaggins, how about posting some positive and uplifting comments, rather than such negative nonsense all the time, if you aren't degrading OZ, you are degrading England, or some ex cricketer pundit.

Why is everyone on here suddenly comparing the relative merits and disadvantageous of English and South African cricketers? This thread was supposed to talk about this current Ashes test match between England and Australia. South Africa are the world's Test number 1 team at present of that there is no doubt, but they have got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this Ashes Test Match (apart from maybe supplying the current England test XI with 3 SA born-and-bred tough players).

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Post by alfie Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:49 pm

I presume Border means he thinks Anderson is capable of producing an even better quality performance than Steyn at this time...but as you point out Steyn isn't in the middle of a Test series at the moment so how could you tell ?
Look it comes down to an opinion ...but the key point is that their respective records over many years are not the issue here , as Border is talking about the present day. And as I keep saying , I don't quite agree with him...

Just that the comparison is not as absurd as many South African fans seem to think. Which is all I am really saying...

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Post by Gerry SA Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:51 pm

alfie wrote:I presume Border means he thinks Anderson is capable of producing an even better quality performance than Steyn at this time...but as you point out Steyn isn't in the middle of a Test series at the moment so how could you tell ?
Look it comes down to an opinion ...but the key point is that their respective records over many years are not the issue here , as Border is talking about the present day.  And as I keep saying , I don't quite agree with him...

Just that the comparison is not as absurd as many South African fans seem to think.  Which is all I am really saying...
Well in the near future Steyn will be playing against Australia so all shall be equal...

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Post by Biltong Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:58 pm

gboycottnut wrote:
Biltong wrote:
Trebellbobaggins, how about posting some positive and uplifting comments, rather than such negative nonsense all the time, if you aren't degrading OZ, you are degrading England, or some ex cricketer pundit.

Why is everyone on here suddenly comparing the relative merits and disadvantageous of English and South African cricketers? This thread was supposed to talk about this current Ashes test match between England and Australia. South Africa are the world's Test number 1 team at present of that there is no doubt, but they have got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this Ashes Test Match (apart from maybe supplying the current England test XI with 3 SA born-and-bred tough players).

Just ignore it mate. The Ashes are bound to stir some emotions, best is to ignore those who don't want to contribute about the series in a constructive manner.
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Post by mystiroakey Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Steyn is quality and average 22 last 4 years as he allways has done throughout his carrer,

Jimmy has avearged 25 in the last 4 years..

I will admit that steyn is the better bowler. But we have to use real stats (not historic) to compare the 2.

Flinty is very similar in this resepct he became world class at the end of his carrer.

Some players just take time to get to the level. If neither played for england until late in there carrer's (yet still got to the same level) there carrer averages would be so much better and people that only look at historic stats couldn't  ignore them

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Post by LivinginItaly Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:16 pm

Totally agree mysti with regards to the career stats not always telling the full story. On a slight side note this does seem to happen quite often with english bowlers where a relatively poor start to the career skews their stats. (Flintoff, anderson, broad, swann off the top of my head) Do we pick them too early?

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:19 pm

Maybe we have done- We do like to blood players in which may also be a reason. But on another note it may be because our players just arnt at the level earlier on..

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:20 pm

Biltong wrote:
Trebellbobaggins, how about posting some positive and uplifting comments, rather than such negative nonsense all the time, if you aren't degrading OZ, you are degrading England, or some ex cricketer pundit.

 ok, I shall then.

though that pundit was talking as much nonsense as me.

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Post by mystiroakey Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:23 pm

I think if trebbello got positive this place wouldnt be the same Sad

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Post by trebellbobaggins Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:25 pm

He asked nicely.  Though his text did bleed at me a bit but he asked nicely and people who ask nicely shall get.

I'm going to post sensibly from here on in.

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